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	<title>Comments on: Delinking</title>
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	<link>http://www.benedictionblogson.com/2005/01/27/delinking/</link>
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	<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 11:33:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Marla</title>
		<link>http://www.benedictionblogson.com/2005/01/27/delinking/#comment-3777</link>
		<dc:creator>Marla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jan 2005 08:50:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ss75.shared.server-system.net/~benedictionblogson.com/?p=1212#comment-3777</guid>
		<description>"organized religion" in the true sense of the word, not the stereotypical one, can be a good thing...when it makes order out of chaos and increases our fellowship among all parts of the Body of Christ. Just my two cents, having been a part of, and pioneered, several inter-church gatherings/associations, both here and abroad. The blogosphere is even more ideal for that sort of "connecting."  In every church there are problems, divisions, etc. but that doesn't mean we should give up on church.  We're all going to be together in heaven--we may as well start enjoying each others' company now! :)
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;organized religion&#8221; in the true sense of the word, not the stereotypical one, can be a good thing&#8230;when it makes order out of chaos and increases our fellowship among all parts of the Body of Christ. Just my two cents, having been a part of, and pioneered, several inter-church gatherings/associations, both here and abroad. The blogosphere is even more ideal for that sort of &#8220;connecting.&#8221;  In every church there are problems, divisions, etc. but that doesn&#8217;t mean we should give up on church.  We&#8217;re all going to be together in heaven&#8211;we may as well start enjoying each others&#8217; company now! <img src='http://www.benedictionblogson.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Bene Diction</title>
		<link>http://www.benedictionblogson.com/2005/01/27/delinking/#comment-3776</link>
		<dc:creator>Bene Diction</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jan 2005 06:18:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ss75.shared.server-system.net/~benedictionblogson.com/?p=1212#comment-3776</guid>
		<description>A very ugly and sad chapter as the blogosphere was growing.I played an unfortunate part because of misguided enthusiasm and idealism and  miscommunication that escalated into serious actions.
It caused harm to many. Things were done with the best of intentions, and the misunderstandings led to my blog being taken, a reader being threatened, anger,hurt on all sides and fear on my end. That fear remains to this day because of the initial events and subsequent abuse.
It lead to entrenching among bloggers and loss of faith in the newly growing endeavor that has never really been healed. 
It had similar goals to the latest efforts; to help the god-blogs connect, be heard, gain influence and find each other.
Those that lead are well served to know their gifts, and honour gifts in others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A very ugly and sad chapter as the blogosphere was growing.I played an unfortunate part because of misguided enthusiasm and idealism and  miscommunication that escalated into serious actions.<br />
It caused harm to many. Things were done with the best of intentions, and the misunderstandings led to my blog being taken, a reader being threatened, anger,hurt on all sides and fear on my end. That fear remains to this day because of the initial events and subsequent abuse.<br />
It lead to entrenching among bloggers and loss of faith in the newly growing endeavor that has never really been healed.<br />
It had similar goals to the latest efforts; to help the god-blogs connect, be heard, gain influence and find each other.<br />
Those that lead are well served to know their gifts, and honour gifts in others.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Pierce</title>
		<link>http://www.benedictionblogson.com/2005/01/27/delinking/#comment-3775</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Pierce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jan 2005 04:34:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ss75.shared.server-system.net/~benedictionblogson.com/?p=1212#comment-3775</guid>
		<description>I didn't think the originally intended 12 were ever called apostles except disparagingly by a critic. I had assumed you were using the same kind of sarcasm in criticism of it. As soon as Adrian saw the 12 referred to as apostles, he changed it to 10. It was just about an immediate reaction on his part. He never intended anyone to be viewed as special, holy, or anything like that. He just wanted 10 bloggers who are well-known, who have contributed a lot to helping promote other Christian blogs, who represent a fair diversity of styles, topics, and perspectives, and who are solidly evangelical in subscribing to a statement of faith that Jollyblogger supplied.

MC, the point of the Decablog is to foster the meeting of new people and the encouraging of new bloggers. It set up some bloggers who are well-known who are go-to people to send good posts to so that others will see them more easily. It's thus supposed to have the same sort of effect as the Christian Carnival except not as one central post on one blog. I'm not as confident as Adrian is that it will have as much success in this purpose as he thinks it will, but you have to look at why he set it up and not why you would expect someone to set such a thing up. Anyone who complains about this without having read his 4-5 posts explaining what it is and why he set it up is merely acting from ignorance.

What hoo-ha of a few years ago are you referring to, Bene?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t think the originally intended 12 were ever called apostles except disparagingly by a critic. I had assumed you were using the same kind of sarcasm in criticism of it. As soon as Adrian saw the 12 referred to as apostles, he changed it to 10. It was just about an immediate reaction on his part. He never intended anyone to be viewed as special, holy, or anything like that. He just wanted 10 bloggers who are well-known, who have contributed a lot to helping promote other Christian blogs, who represent a fair diversity of styles, topics, and perspectives, and who are solidly evangelical in subscribing to a statement of faith that Jollyblogger supplied.</p>
<p>MC, the point of the Decablog is to foster the meeting of new people and the encouraging of new bloggers. It set up some bloggers who are well-known who are go-to people to send good posts to so that others will see them more easily. It&#8217;s thus supposed to have the same sort of effect as the Christian Carnival except not as one central post on one blog. I&#8217;m not as confident as Adrian is that it will have as much success in this purpose as he thinks it will, but you have to look at why he set it up and not why you would expect someone to set such a thing up. Anyone who complains about this without having read his 4-5 posts explaining what it is and why he set it up is merely acting from ignorance.</p>
<p>What hoo-ha of a few years ago are you referring to, Bene?</p>
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		<title>By: Bene Diction</title>
		<link>http://www.benedictionblogson.com/2005/01/27/delinking/#comment-3774</link>
		<dc:creator>Bene Diction</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jan 2005 10:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ss75.shared.server-system.net/~benedictionblogson.com/?p=1212#comment-3774</guid>
		<description>I agree with most of your points Jared, but having been part of some of the original hoo ha a few years ago, my caution is personal and based on experience. It doesn't mean it will happen again. 
My caution and criticism is not contrary just for the sake of it. I don't think I'm being oppositional. If I am, there are people that will call me on that.
I already think too many of us are addicted to conflict.

One of the things I'm wondering about is the US drive to market, be the best, gain influence and power. My internal jury is still out on that one.:^)

The recent Dobson issue is a classic. Many believers piled into 'liberal' blogs, defensive and even rude and arrogant and using the sub-language of religion.
I've posted about the rise of protestant aggregators, to applaud any effort that genuinely 'gives voice to the voiceless.'
We'll see how it all plays out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with most of your points Jared, but having been part of some of the original hoo ha a few years ago, my caution is personal and based on experience. It doesn&#8217;t mean it will happen again.<br />
My caution and criticism is not contrary just for the sake of it. I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;m being oppositional. If I am, there are people that will call me on that.<br />
I already think too many of us are addicted to conflict.</p>
<p>One of the things I&#8217;m wondering about is the US drive to market, be the best, gain influence and power. My internal jury is still out on that one.:^)</p>
<p>The recent Dobson issue is a classic. Many believers piled into &#8216;liberal&#8217; blogs, defensive and even rude and arrogant and using the sub-language of religion.<br />
I&#8217;ve posted about the rise of protestant aggregators, to applaud any effort that genuinely &#8216;gives voice to the voiceless.&#8217;<br />
We&#8217;ll see how it all plays out.</p>
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		<title>By: Jared</title>
		<link>http://www.benedictionblogson.com/2005/01/27/delinking/#comment-3773</link>
		<dc:creator>Jared</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jan 2005 09:55:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ss75.shared.server-system.net/~benedictionblogson.com/?p=1212#comment-3773</guid>
		<description>I'm wary of these sorts of things as well (although I added my solo blog to the Reformed Blogs Aggregator to both submit my writing to a readership I have affinity with and to get a glimpse of likeminded bloggers I'd never read before).

But even though I'm still not clear on how this whole Decablog and what-not stuff is supposed to work, it appears to me that the purpose is to create exposure and increase readership of "smaller" blogs by "using" more widely read blogs.
I think we should give Jeremy and folks the benefit of the doubt at this point. They haven't even started and some of us are already nervous. 

It's possible we don't understand exactly what they're doing. Shouldn't we take a wait and see attitude toward this and not jump to conclusions about how this will create division/clique-ishness/exclusivity/etc?

Just a thought from someone who otherwise doesn't "get" all the aggregator/alliances/blog-marketing hoo-ha.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m wary of these sorts of things as well (although I added my solo blog to the Reformed Blogs Aggregator to both submit my writing to a readership I have affinity with and to get a glimpse of likeminded bloggers I&#8217;d never read before).</p>
<p>But even though I&#8217;m still not clear on how this whole Decablog and what-not stuff is supposed to work, it appears to me that the purpose is to create exposure and increase readership of &#8220;smaller&#8221; blogs by &#8220;using&#8221; more widely read blogs.<br />
I think we should give Jeremy and folks the benefit of the doubt at this point. They haven&#8217;t even started and some of us are already nervous. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s possible we don&#8217;t understand exactly what they&#8217;re doing. Shouldn&#8217;t we take a wait and see attitude toward this and not jump to conclusions about how this will create division/clique-ishness/exclusivity/etc?</p>
<p>Just a thought from someone who otherwise doesn&#8217;t &#8220;get&#8221; all the aggregator/alliances/blog-marketing hoo-ha.</p>
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		<title>By: Messy Christian</title>
		<link>http://www.benedictionblogson.com/2005/01/27/delinking/#comment-3772</link>
		<dc:creator>Messy Christian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jan 2005 07:00:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ss75.shared.server-system.net/~benedictionblogson.com/?p=1212#comment-3772</guid>
		<description>Wow. Heated up, aren't we?

Well, see, this is the thing I'm worried about. When people start defending leagues and groups rather than love one another. Sorry, Jeremy. :)

Bene, I've posted my view on this topic, just to let you know since I can't find a trackback:

http://messychristian.blogs.com/messy_christian/2005/01/christian_facti.html

I guess I'm being a typical centrist here, but I do have a problem with the top 10 blogs thingy. I just don't understand how it could help the blogosphere ... it does give the impression of being an exclusive club, an in-crowd of Christian bloggers where people should go to to get noticed. Personally, it's not inline with my blogging philosophy which is to meet new people, blog about things I care about and to encourage new bloggers. But that's just me...

I'm sure others have different ideals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. Heated up, aren&#8217;t we?</p>
<p>Well, see, this is the thing I&#8217;m worried about. When people start defending leagues and groups rather than love one another. Sorry, Jeremy. <img src='http://www.benedictionblogson.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Bene, I&#8217;ve posted my view on this topic, just to let you know since I can&#8217;t find a trackback:</p>
<p><a href="http://messychristian.blogs.com/messy_christian/2005/01/christian_facti.html" rel="nofollow">http://messychristian.blogs.com/messy_christian/2005/01/christian_facti.html</a></p>
<p>I guess I&#8217;m being a typical centrist here, but I do have a problem with the top 10 blogs thingy. I just don&#8217;t understand how it could help the blogosphere &#8230; it does give the impression of being an exclusive club, an in-crowd of Christian bloggers where people should go to to get noticed. Personally, it&#8217;s not inline with my blogging philosophy which is to meet new people, blog about things I care about and to encourage new bloggers. But that&#8217;s just me&#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure others have different ideals.</p>
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		<title>By: Bene Diction</title>
		<link>http://www.benedictionblogson.com/2005/01/27/delinking/#comment-3771</link>
		<dc:creator>Bene Diction</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jan 2005 05:42:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ss75.shared.server-system.net/~benedictionblogson.com/?p=1212#comment-3771</guid>
		<description>I'm willing to stand corrected.
The 10 (not 12) apostles serve the blogdom of god aggregrator.

10 Christian blogs: decablog

Adrian Warnock
Evangelical Outpost
In the Agora
Jollyblogger
La Shawn Barber
Le Sabot Post-Moderne
Parableman
Patriot Paradox
Smart Christian
Wittenberg Gate
Working with the Blogdom of God

I quoted Dr. Warnock's purpose.
So the 12 are 10 and are no longer being called apostles?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m willing to stand corrected.<br />
The 10 (not 12) apostles serve the blogdom of god aggregrator.</p>
<p>10 Christian blogs: decablog</p>
<p>Adrian Warnock<br />
Evangelical Outpost<br />
In the Agora<br />
Jollyblogger<br />
La Shawn Barber<br />
Le Sabot Post-Moderne<br />
Parableman<br />
Patriot Paradox<br />
Smart Christian<br />
Wittenberg Gate<br />
Working with the Blogdom of God</p>
<p>I quoted Dr. Warnock&#8217;s purpose.<br />
So the 12 are 10 and are no longer being called apostles?</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Pierce</title>
		<link>http://www.benedictionblogson.com/2005/01/27/delinking/#comment-3770</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Pierce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jan 2005 04:53:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ss75.shared.server-system.net/~benedictionblogson.com/?p=1212#comment-3770</guid>
		<description>"apostles in the Blogdom aggregator"

I don't believe that there are any apostles in the blogdom, and I've never heard of an apostles aggregator. I do know that when Adrian was first talking about the Decablog, people were a little worried than having 12 people in it would send the wrong message, that the people in it were going to represent the 12 apostles somehow. He realized that such an impression would be both false and a bad one to send, so he changed it to 10. Fortunately, it was before he had even contacted the 10 people now in it about it.

Since you listened to me and were glad to change your views before when presented with the correct information, let me try again with the aggregator. The way he presented it was as follows. Some people were asked for permission to be included in an aggregator that was intended to try to give a place for people to go that would include posts from the highest-profile bloggers in the blogdom who link to others a lot and support bloggers without as much recognition. Adrian viewed me as one of those people, and I was happy to allow my blog to serve this purpose if the aggregator does in fact serve that purpose.

I never said I had no reservations about this. I have some. I don't think it's going to be incredibly effective at what it's designed to do. I think it's more likely just to be a nice place to see what's up with these particular blogs. Since Adrian extended an offer to anyone to do the same with their own aggregator of whatever blogs they wanted, I saw no harm in going along with it in case it does have the good effects he intends.

As for Tom, I don't think I said he was accusing me of anything. I do think he had an overly negative tone in his questions. There was all that stuff about tooting my own horn, and then there was the suggestion that the aggregators were causing the division, as if they were at all related to the WorldMag thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;apostles in the Blogdom aggregator&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe that there are any apostles in the blogdom, and I&#8217;ve never heard of an apostles aggregator. I do know that when Adrian was first talking about the Decablog, people were a little worried than having 12 people in it would send the wrong message, that the people in it were going to represent the 12 apostles somehow. He realized that such an impression would be both false and a bad one to send, so he changed it to 10. Fortunately, it was before he had even contacted the 10 people now in it about it.</p>
<p>Since you listened to me and were glad to change your views before when presented with the correct information, let me try again with the aggregator. The way he presented it was as follows. Some people were asked for permission to be included in an aggregator that was intended to try to give a place for people to go that would include posts from the highest-profile bloggers in the blogdom who link to others a lot and support bloggers without as much recognition. Adrian viewed me as one of those people, and I was happy to allow my blog to serve this purpose if the aggregator does in fact serve that purpose.</p>
<p>I never said I had no reservations about this. I have some. I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s going to be incredibly effective at what it&#8217;s designed to do. I think it&#8217;s more likely just to be a nice place to see what&#8217;s up with these particular blogs. Since Adrian extended an offer to anyone to do the same with their own aggregator of whatever blogs they wanted, I saw no harm in going along with it in case it does have the good effects he intends.</p>
<p>As for Tom, I don&#8217;t think I said he was accusing me of anything. I do think he had an overly negative tone in his questions. There was all that stuff about tooting my own horn, and then there was the suggestion that the aggregators were causing the division, as if they were at all related to the WorldMag thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Reindl</title>
		<link>http://www.benedictionblogson.com/2005/01/27/delinking/#comment-3769</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Reindl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jan 2005 02:47:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ss75.shared.server-system.net/~benedictionblogson.com/?p=1212#comment-3769</guid>
		<description>I have no problem admitting I am arrogant.  I see it as one of my worst traits, sadly enough. Good hope to you, Jeremy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no problem admitting I am arrogant.  I see it as one of my worst traits, sadly enough. Good hope to you, Jeremy.</p>
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		<title>By: Bene Diction</title>
		<link>http://www.benedictionblogson.com/2005/01/27/delinking/#comment-3768</link>
		<dc:creator>Bene Diction</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jan 2005 09:15:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ss75.shared.server-system.net/~benedictionblogson.com/?p=1212#comment-3768</guid>
		<description>This discussion isn't an argument to 'win' Jeremy.

Here is my summary.

I think your public announcement of delinking was ill-advised. So do some others. You don't. 

I have serious reservations about apostles in the Blogdom aggregator. So do some others. You don't. 
I have reservations about the motivation and marketing behind some of these aggregators. So do some others. You don't.

I see Tom's questions above as open-ended, not a personal attack. You don't.

You have gone to a great deal of commendable effort to correct my mistakes and explain your intent, I trust you feel you've been heard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This discussion isn&#8217;t an argument to &#8216;win&#8217; Jeremy.</p>
<p>Here is my summary.</p>
<p>I think your public announcement of delinking was ill-advised. So do some others. You don&#8217;t. </p>
<p>I have serious reservations about apostles in the Blogdom aggregator. So do some others. You don&#8217;t.<br />
I have reservations about the motivation and marketing behind some of these aggregators. So do some others. You don&#8217;t.</p>
<p>I see Tom&#8217;s questions above as open-ended, not a personal attack. You don&#8217;t.</p>
<p>You have gone to a great deal of commendable effort to correct my mistakes and explain your intent, I trust you feel you&#8217;ve been heard.</p>
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