Messy Christian looks at the growth of god-blog aggregators and posts ideas on the pros and cons.
Groups like these do exclude others who do not hold the same inclination, whether it is their intention or not, and since we’re Christians and are called to unity, it does seem a little strange to feel excluded among fellow Christians.
So, I was thinking … what if a certain blogger disagrees with a certain aspect of the group’s theology? Does that mean he will be delinked from the group since he no longer qualifies to be part of the group (I think)?
Potential problems:
a) members may become too inward-looking, talking about what’s going on within the group only
b) end up cacooning instead of spreading out to the world
c) differing views on theology may not be welcomed
d) may only mingle with like-minded bloggers and not with people of differing views
This are valid concerns. If they are seen as oppositional and the decalogue or head of aggregators get defensive, there will be problems. There will be problems, life is messy, blogging is messy.:^)
Eternal Perspectives also looks at potential problems.
If you glance through the aggregators - e.g., The Evangelical Aggregator or The Blogdom of God - you will notice a development that is not too surprising but potentially not very desirable. What I refer to is the emergence of denominationally- or doctrinally-determined associations and aggregators.
It was inevitable, I suppose, that we Godbloggers would begin to seek out others who thought and reasoned as we do, forming our own subculture in blogdom even as Christians have done in real physical space since the inception of the church. It is part of our nature - our Adamic nature, it would seem. We (myself very much included) always seem to be gathering when God wants us scattering, excluding when He wants us including.
We are tribal.
More importantly, it can be a sad witness to the world that Christians cannot help but be divisive and exclusive. As a whole, evangelicals are already guilty of developing their own jargon (which delineates who is “one of us” and who isn’t) and doctrinal Shibboleths to distinguish ourselves from liberal and/or non-Protestant segments of Christendom.
Jolly Blogger one of the 10 apostles (I don’t know what to call these 10 head bloggers) is enthusiastic and open to what he and like minded bloggers are doing.
But I would like to take this discussion a step further if I may and discuss another division that is growing in the body of Christ. It’s the same division that is growing in the wider culture - the division between the technological haves and have-nots. Society today is not only by economic and other types of status, but by those who know how to use emerging technologies and those who don’t.
Bloggers are on the cutting edge (or is it bleeding edge?) of new technologies and communication media. As Diane Roberts from Crossroads commented on a post of mine the other day, 95% of the people she knows in church don’t have a clue what a blog is. We aren’t developing our own sub-culture, the subculture is already here. We even have our own vocabulary as can be seen when you ask the average person what a blog is.
My own desire in starting the PCABlogroll and encouraging others to start their own denominational blogrolls was not to cause division, but to help the blogging community reach down into the “real world” communities where we live. If I want my own denomination to start paying attention to blogs I have a much better chance of getting them to stand up and take notice if I can show them that there a bunch of us out there.
I see aggregators as a bit like blogrolls, with someone else’s rules, and within these aggregators there are cross-overs which probably inflates numbers somewhat. There is a looping inflated effect.
Update: RazorKiss shows how things really break down in the Blogdom ranking system.
And there are a lot of god-blogs inside and outside the US not signing up because they are already doing what is being done or aren’t comfortable with more attempts to centralize.
The Church Directory like other recent ones formed is for evangelical believers.
Correction: The Church Dirctory is not an aggregator - it is a blogroll, like what you see on the sidebar here.
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Hi Bene,
The Church Directory is not an aggregator. it is just a blogroll. Thought I’d let you know. God bless.
Hi Catez, sorry. Fixed.
I think the idea of “10 Christian blogs” is well intended, but I don’t think it will do anything to contribute to Christian unity. More accurately, pehaps, they should be called “10 conservative Christian blogs.”
I think Messy Christian is right, except that what’s identified as a potential problem is in fact what happens. My perception is that blogs do exist in like-minded huddles, looking outside only to yell “Yah boo sucks to you.” (Insert any playground chant here!) Aggregators might make this worse, but they also open up the possibility for groups to expand.
I’m very suspicious of the language of “influence” or “climbing”. There are dangers in becoming powerful in any context, and I don’t suppose blogging is going to be an exception.
Perhaps Pyramid Schemes For God would be more accurately descriptive. It strikes me that the truth is often found by inverting the market-speak. For example: “[...]to serve the entire Chrisitan blogosphere by linking out to them from a combined single high impact page.”, really means: to create a single high impact page by linking in to it from the entire Christian blogosphere.
Can you imagine Jesus joining such a monster?
Anyway, recent discussions on many blogs have convinced me to steer clear of such schemes. Before too long, we’ll be required to display the sign of the beast or get no traffic at all.
If it gets that far let’s quit eh?:^)
I think the more the merrier when it comes to blogs, and I like to see new blogs get noticed.
I’m guilty of marketing. Designers know that clutter on a webpage annoys readers. Blog designers recommend keeping the side bar as clutter free as possible and the blogroll manageable for a reader. (under 50) That is a marketing technique I’ve adhered to. I’m not a button and clutter fan.
I’ve raised my objections and I wish everyone well. In fairness to the approach taken, Dr. Warnock (who runs the Blogdom aggregator) works for a drug company and is using a business model.
I’m free not to go there, the blogs may be well served, but I remain quite unsure of ‘we the church.’
Why is it that anytime that Christians try to generate a sense of community that it is mocked and viewed as a disturbing trend? It reminds me of the Fundamentalists churches I used to grow up in where we were taught to be suspicious of Christians who try to reach out to other believers or who — gasp — try to influence the culture around us.
And when did “influence” become viewed as some kind of disturbing code word? Who had a bigger influence on Western civilization than Jesus, Peter, Paul, Luther, Calvin, Wesley, Wilberforce, et al.?
Yes, Christians, like all human beings, are fallen creatures and prone to make hurtful mistakes and take actions that lead to unintended bad consequences. But for people to sit back and turn up their noses at Christians who actually give a damn about society and culture and want to do something constructive is disheartening.
I’m about as laid-back a guy as you can get. But this sort of nonsense is really making me angry. If it makes you feel better to be a blogger who disdains the idea of having readers or actually conversing with people who share your values and convinctions then by all means do that. But stop the back-biting and whining whenever other Christian bloggers get the delusion that what they are doing might actually have an impact on the Kingdom and not be a complete navel-gazing waste of time.
You grew up in fundamentalism Joe?
You are entitled to your anger, and I don’t think back biting or whining is at all useful either.
I see you making a serious effort to reach past gender, country, denomination, politics and all the things that make us tribal. I also know past history online (particularily in the lead up to the Iraq war) and it is not pretty. It doesn’t mean we stop trying, but I have no problem looking carefully at how we try.
If your efforts are analysed and met with suspicion by all means express your discontent. I’m glad you feel free to come here and do so. I don’t know that you would be able to comphehend how happy I’d be to be wrong.
Have your christian instapundit, have your marketing, hits, your kings and awards and top spots on ranking systems.
There will be sour grapes, I’ve seen that too.
*But for people to sit back and turn up their noses at Christians who actually give a damn about society and culture and want to do something constructive is disheartening.*
Yeah, it is, and it’s a door that swings both ways.
Thanks Joe, blog on!
Joe,
Is it really try to create a sense of Christian community or just to create a sense of community among people who think exactly like the ten bloggers, that is, mainly conservative and mainly Calvinist?
For one, Catholics make up about half of Christians, I think. Why not invite someone such as Justin Katz in?
Adrian Warnock founded the Blogdom of God. Jollyblogger wasn’t in it when I joined and probably didn’t even have had a blog yet, so I think it’s highly inaccurate to call him one of its founding fathers. Just keeping you straight on the details. I don’t think anyone would be offended by this.
In my experience the largest effect of these mass blogrolls is to give many, many more links to small bloggers who then will have more exposure and will be found more easily than others. The second largest effect is that people who are good at getting into a few of them will have much more noticeability than would otherwise be even close to possible. The first effect seems thoroughly good and hardly bad at all. The second seems to be good when the blogger is good and should be noticed. I have some mixed feelings about that effect, though. I don’t judge an action to be wrong merely because its effects, though, so I see no problem with blogrolls.
When it comes to aggregators, that seems to me to be largely a place for people who want to to go to read a set of blogs on similar topics or with similar features. This is really no different from using a news aggregator yourself and putting in whichever blogs you want. The only noticeable difference is that someone has selected some blogs, often with a fairly open acceptance (perhaps subscribing to a statement of faith or being willing to blog about a particular issue now and then) and then made it publicly available. I presume the only real worry, then, is when certain blogs are highlighted as special ones, which is how many people are trying to view the Decablog, contrary to its stated purpose and intended effect. That seems to be what spurred this on, and that seems to be the only one with even a hope of showing a moral issue with. Why not have a place to go read pro-life bloggers? Why not have a place to go read blogs that are Christian and politically liberal? Why not have a place to read blogs dealing with apologetics?
You know, I’ve got a better idea. Ten bloggers, you say? In the words of The Highlander, I say that there can only be one. I say let it be me. Instead of ten people speaking for the Christian blogosphere, let’s make it all about ME. After all, that’s the way it is in MY world!
Bene,
Sorry that I went off on rant. I’ve just been seeing a lot of that sort of thing and it has been getting under my skin.
***You grew up in fundamentalism Joe?***
You can’t tell? ; )
Yeah, it moved from fundamentalist Baptist to fundamentalist Pentecostal so I got the full effect.
***If your efforts are analysed and met with suspicion by all means express your discontent.***
I can certainly respect people expressing their concerns and pointing out where things might go wrong. But to view *every single effort* with suspicion just because it comes from a certain country (the U.S.) or a particular movement (evangelicalism) or because many of the bloggers may have similiar political inclinations (conservative) is rather uncharitable.
Joel,
***Is it really try to create a sense of Christian community or just to create a sense of community among people who think exactly like the ten bloggers, that is, mainly conservative and mainly Calvinist?***
I think we have to move in stages. You start by finding members of your own intellectual “tribe” and create a sense of inclusion. Then — as a group that is accountable to one another — you move to the next stage and expand the circle. For example, I think that evangelicals and Catholics should be able to join together on many issues while still respectfully disagreeing on others.
By reaching out as a group of like-minded individuals we can temper the extremes on both ends. A single individual evangelical may feel free to bash Catholics and denigrate their faith. But if he feels part of a community of fellow evangelicals he will be less likely to resort to the extremism that can stem from radical individualism.
Will it work? I don’t know. I hope so. But I will never know unless I do what I can to make an effort.
Joe,
I understand where you are coming from, but I grew up in an area with a lot of anti-Catholic animosity. I also have a lot of Catholic relatives and I am sensitive to how they perceive feelings toward them and as to whether or not they are considered Christians by the conservative Protestant evangelical community.
Parableman: Thanks for the correction. I’ll fix that. I see a Southern Baptist and Reformed aggregators have been formed.
Would you help me understand? Are they being fed through the Blogdom? I’m unfamilar with blogdigger.
This is from Dr. Warnock’s blog.
*Handily he is using blogdigger which means that like the PCA blog, anyone who joins that blog will now automatically be aggregated also on the BofG page since blogdigger has an RSS feed. From my point of view it would be cool for the new God aggregators to set themselves up that way, so that BofG can increasingly become the central port of call aggregating the other aggregators and pointing people to more specific lists. So if you already run an aggregator do consider blogdigger- it would even be possible to include the RSS feed from there on your existing server.com page. O, and by the way, do make sure you submit your aggregator page to google for spidering.*
Hey Joe: No, I couldn’t tell.:^)
Thanks for your apology, no need. You own your own feelings, rant away - it’s a tough job setting things up and getting them running. I don’t handle my anger nearly as well. It would get under my skin to. People need time, a chance to sort things out and an opportunity to see others holding to their promises.
Hey, wait a minute. If you people think for one minute that all this huggy, kissy, making up stuff means that I’m withdrawing my claim to the papacy, you’ve got another thing coming. I took that action in order to bring order to chaos in the better interests of the one holy blogospheric church, and as far as I can tell, rebellion still exists among the wild boars in the vineyard.
Please refer to the terms specified in http://blog.revmike.us/archives/000715.html, or you will get a trip to the Board Room, where, to paraphrase Donald Trump, someone WILL be anathematized.
This is surely a sign of the end times!!!!
Here’s how I’m seeing the “layout” of the god-blogosphere right now.
The Blogdom is a runaway train, with anything, and everything “god-related”. It is, quite simply, just a huge, huge “train station” for God-blogs. It doesn’t do anything whatsoever, but aggregate all the posts and links, for all the godblogs on the list, with an accompanying blogroll. Nothing else.
The Blogdom is the biggest (as of now), and it should be. In my humble opinion, it provides a way for all of us to “connect” on the macro scale - regardless of theology, denomination, or what have you. That is what is cool about the Blogdom.
The Reformed, Un-right, and Evangelical aggregators, (not to be confused with Joe’s blogroll only Directory) do much the same thing. They are just big fat clearing houses. However, they are putting together (roughly, macro-scale still) like-minded/theology believers onto a common roll.
Then, you get to the more specific ones, like my apologetics aggregator, or the denominational aggregators. See, I look at the Blogdom as a “kingdom of God” scale aggregator. There are macro-level aggregators under that, and then more specific ones under that.
We are all still connected in the larger “umbrella” - but, we are also connecting via “common theology”, and “common purpose” in the more specific ones.
Now, for your actual question: Nothing is “under” the blogdom, as of now. Their links are included (to the aggregators), I think, but nothing else.
The “Decablog” is more or less a group of ten higher-traffic bloggers who are trying to “bring up the tail” for the smaller bloggers. They all happen to be evangelical/reformed, because they are the highest traffic, it seems to me.
So, there’s the “layout”, in a nutshell.
Blogdigger looks like this: http://groups.blogdigger.com/groups.jsp?id=1530
It has an RSS feed, which the usual server.com aggregators do not - which is why he’s promoting them. That RSS feed can be added to the Blogdom’s aggregation, and multiply the coverage - server.com aggregators don’t have that ability.
Did that help somewhat?
Thanks Razorkiss, it does, somewhat.:^)
The technical, anyway.
I don’t go by Shirkey’s Law, I think there are far better models especially within subculture non A listers.
Seems to me a lot of this is looping. I found your comparisons and hits, sessions, uniques interesting.
Those that don’t understand logs and hits will find it useful. Blog on!