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	<title>Comments on: The Prime Minister and the Vatican</title>
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	<link>http://www.benedictionblogson.com/2005/10/01/the-prime-minister-and-the-vatican/</link>
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	<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 00:14:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Paul Johnston</title>
		<link>http://www.benedictionblogson.com/2005/10/01/the-prime-minister-and-the-vatican/#comment-5092</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Johnston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Oct 2005 19:41:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ss75.shared.server-system.net/~benedictionblogson.com/?p=1786#comment-5092</guid>
		<description>Perhaps the question to consider also, is wether or not the Church has the moral authority/responsibility to punish those who would actively promote, encourage and affirm sin.

Protestant communions are simply symbolic and frankly do not require the context of church or service to be effected. Any meal where Christ is respected and revered will do.

The only true understanding of our lord's last supper and the communion rite is made manifest in Catholic churches. He gave it to the Apostles not as a metaphor not as a symbol, he gave it to them literally as his body and blood. In this way the Catholic churches offer it to everyone also. 

You would do better to encourage Protestant brothers to join in Catholic RCIA programs and be baptized into the fullness of Christ.

"Therefore let us leave behind the basic teachings about Christ and advance to maturity"... Hebrews, 6:1 
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps the question to consider also, is wether or not the Church has the moral authority/responsibility to punish those who would actively promote, encourage and affirm sin.</p>
<p>Protestant communions are simply symbolic and frankly do not require the context of church or service to be effected. Any meal where Christ is respected and revered will do.</p>
<p>The only true understanding of our lord&#8217;s last supper and the communion rite is made manifest in Catholic churches. He gave it to the Apostles not as a metaphor not as a symbol, he gave it to them literally as his body and blood. In this way the Catholic churches offer it to everyone also. </p>
<p>You would do better to encourage Protestant brothers to join in Catholic RCIA programs and be baptized into the fullness of Christ.</p>
<p>&#8220;Therefore let us leave behind the basic teachings about Christ and advance to maturity&#8221;&#8230; Hebrews, 6:1</p>
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		<title>By: Funky Dung</title>
		<link>http://www.benedictionblogson.com/2005/10/01/the-prime-minister-and-the-vatican/#comment-5091</link>
		<dc:creator>Funky Dung</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Oct 2005 15:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ss75.shared.server-system.net/~benedictionblogson.com/?p=1786#comment-5091</guid>
		<description>Some further explanation can be found here:

http://www.all.org/crusade/canon915.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some further explanation can be found here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.all.org/crusade/canon915.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.all.org/crusade/canon915.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Funky Dung</title>
		<link>http://www.benedictionblogson.com/2005/10/01/the-prime-minister-and-the-vatican/#comment-5090</link>
		<dc:creator>Funky Dung</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Oct 2005 15:34:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ss75.shared.server-system.net/~benedictionblogson.com/?p=1786#comment-5090</guid>
		<description>The relevant canon is the same that got John Kerry in trouble in some diocese.

"Can.  915 Those who have been excommunicated or interdicted after the imposition or declaration of the penalty and others obstinately persevering in manifest grave sin are not to be admitted to holy communion."

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P39.HTM

Paul Martin would be denied communion as one "obstinately persevering in manifest grave sin".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The relevant canon is the same that got John Kerry in trouble in some diocese.</p>
<p>&#8220;Can.  915 Those who have been excommunicated or interdicted after the imposition or declaration of the penalty and others obstinately persevering in manifest grave sin are not to be admitted to holy communion.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P39.HTM" rel="nofollow">http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P39.HTM</a></p>
<p>Paul Martin would be denied communion as one &#8220;obstinately persevering in manifest grave sin&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Bene D</title>
		<link>http://www.benedictionblogson.com/2005/10/01/the-prime-minister-and-the-vatican/#comment-5089</link>
		<dc:creator>Bene D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Oct 2005 09:08:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ss75.shared.server-system.net/~benedictionblogson.com/?p=1786#comment-5089</guid>
		<description>"In the Eucharist the Lord gives Himself to us with His body, His soul and His divinity, and we become one with Him and among ourselves. Our response to His love must, therefore, be a concrete response; it must be expressed in a true conversion to love, in forgiveness, in mutual acceptance and in attention to everyone's needs. Many and varied are the forms of service we can offer others in everyday life. The Eucharist thus becomes the source of spiritual energy that renews the world in the love of Christ." 

That is from the Pope this past week.
The synod bishops have to say what they are saying, it's their job. 
I can't find out if this is a UN of bishops or Canadian bishops.
If it was a unified voice of Canadian bishops I guess Paul Martin wouldn't be taking communion in Canada. 
The church doesn't rule the country, which is a good thing.
But I think if it actually came down to a synod or magisteruim or Holy See ruling, every Catholic involved with the bill should be under the ruling.
When the NDP member was denied communion by her priest and the bishop overruled recently the die was cast. 
Paul Martin isn't Henry VI.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;In the Eucharist the Lord gives Himself to us with His body, His soul and His divinity, and we become one with Him and among ourselves. Our response to His love must, therefore, be a concrete response; it must be expressed in a true conversion to love, in forgiveness, in mutual acceptance and in attention to everyone&#8217;s needs. Many and varied are the forms of service we can offer others in everyday life. The Eucharist thus becomes the source of spiritual energy that renews the world in the love of Christ.&#8221; </p>
<p>That is from the Pope this past week.<br />
The synod bishops have to say what they are saying, it&#8217;s their job.<br />
I can&#8217;t find out if this is a UN of bishops or Canadian bishops.<br />
If it was a unified voice of Canadian bishops I guess Paul Martin wouldn&#8217;t be taking communion in Canada.<br />
The church doesn&#8217;t rule the country, which is a good thing.<br />
But I think if it actually came down to a synod or magisteruim or Holy See ruling, every Catholic involved with the bill should be under the ruling.<br />
When the NDP member was denied communion by her priest and the bishop overruled recently the die was cast.<br />
Paul Martin isn&#8217;t Henry VI.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.benedictionblogson.com/2005/10/01/the-prime-minister-and-the-vatican/#comment-5088</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Oct 2005 01:22:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ss75.shared.server-system.net/~benedictionblogson.com/?p=1786#comment-5088</guid>
		<description>Indeed Protestants would be suitable: any port in a storm, as the saying goes. ;-)

I'm not sure that the Sacrament of Communion is one of forgiveness: Reconciliation (Penance) comes to mind for that.  And, at least in Orthodoxy (and I imagine it would be similar for our RC friends), you need to be attending Reconciliation regularly to receive Communion.

I do understand your point of view though.  How far do you go?  I'm imagining it's due to politicians being in the public and publically expressing these views: a member of the public could keep quiet.  Interesting times...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed Protestants would be suitable: any port in a storm, as the saying goes. <img src='http://www.benedictionblogson.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
I&#8217;m not sure that the Sacrament of Communion is one of forgiveness: Reconciliation (Penance) comes to mind for that.  And, at least in Orthodoxy (and I imagine it would be similar for our RC friends), you need to be attending Reconciliation regularly to receive Communion.</p>
<p>I do understand your point of view though.  How far do you go?  I&#8217;m imagining it&#8217;s due to politicians being in the public and publically expressing these views: a member of the public could keep quiet.  Interesting times&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Bene Diction</title>
		<link>http://www.benedictionblogson.com/2005/10/01/the-prime-minister-and-the-vatican/#comment-5087</link>
		<dc:creator>Bene Diction</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Oct 2005 20:25:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I do know that under grave conditions a protestant minister is permitted to give and a Catholic is permitted to receive. ie: hospital chaplins

I understand I cannot take communion in a Catholic church, and I respect that and don't perceive that decision as a loss.

In this case if the Catholic Church is deciding whether or not to deny the PM then my protestant sensibility says deny everyone. 
Martin was merely the leader of the party when the legislation came to parliament. He permitted a free vote.
What I am having difficulty understanding is why only the current PM? 
What is that going to prove in the country, the church or his life to deny him a sacrament of forgiveness?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do know that under grave conditions a protestant minister is permitted to give and a Catholic is permitted to receive. ie: hospital chaplins</p>
<p>I understand I cannot take communion in a Catholic church, and I respect that and don&#8217;t perceive that decision as a loss.</p>
<p>In this case if the Catholic Church is deciding whether or not to deny the PM then my protestant sensibility says deny everyone.<br />
Martin was merely the leader of the party when the legislation came to parliament. He permitted a free vote.<br />
What I am having difficulty understanding is why only the current PM?<br />
What is that going to prove in the country, the church or his life to deny him a sacrament of forgiveness?</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.benedictionblogson.com/2005/10/01/the-prime-minister-and-the-vatican/#comment-5086</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Oct 2005 13:41:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ss75.shared.server-system.net/~benedictionblogson.com/?p=1786#comment-5086</guid>
		<description>Catholics can generally not take communion in another church.  If they were gravely ill I believe they are allowed to approach a minister from the Assyrian Church of the East or the Orthodox Churches (and possibly some others).  

I am under the impression the Roman Catholic church allows Orthodox to receive in its church, but the Orthodox do not reciprocate.

Be aware that Communion is not seen as a symbol of unity in the same way as it often is in Protestant churches in the Catholic faith: unity of faith must come before sharing of Sacraments.  The same applies to the Orthodox churches.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Catholics can generally not take communion in another church.  If they were gravely ill I believe they are allowed to approach a minister from the Assyrian Church of the East or the Orthodox Churches (and possibly some others).  </p>
<p>I am under the impression the Roman Catholic church allows Orthodox to receive in its church, but the Orthodox do not reciprocate.</p>
<p>Be aware that Communion is not seen as a symbol of unity in the same way as it often is in Protestant churches in the Catholic faith: unity of faith must come before sharing of Sacraments.  The same applies to the Orthodox churches.</p>
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		<title>By: Julian Sanchez</title>
		<link>http://www.benedictionblogson.com/2005/10/01/the-prime-minister-and-the-vatican/#comment-5085</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian Sanchez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Oct 2005 05:55:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ss75.shared.server-system.net/~benedictionblogson.com/?p=1786#comment-5085</guid>
		<description>I agree that any Catholic Politian involved in approving, Same Sex Marriages, Abortion, assisting suicide, etc  should not received the Holy Body and Blood of Jesus Christ!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that any Catholic Politian involved in approving, Same Sex Marriages, Abortion, assisting suicide, etc  should not received the Holy Body and Blood of Jesus Christ!</p>
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