Former US Ambassador to the UN, former Republican senator and Episcopal priest John Danforth is the focus of a post at Frederick Clarkson’s blog.
Danforth:
“I’ve been away from (the Senate) for more than 10 years,” he said recently at the Memorial church at Harvard University, “and I see politics from a distance. And I’m appalled by what I see…. Right there in the midst of all the partisanship, in the midst of all the nastiness, right there with their wedge issues and litmus tests and extreme rhetoric, right there as the most divisive force in American life, are my fellow Christians.”
I agree with Clarkson it is not just the extreme rhetoric, it is the power.
As encouraging as it is to hear Danforth speaking out, his words are unlikely to have much effect. The power of the Christian Right is not in the divisiveness of their rhetoric, although that is a factor. It is in the political power they have attained — largely through the effectiveness of their political organizing. What Falwell, Robertson, and Dobson say now is little different, and no more divisive, than what they were saying 20 years ago when Danforth was in the U.S. Senate and not (to my knowledge) speaking out. Since that time, the Christian Right has become the best organized faction in American politics — and one of the most powerful.
And don’t speak truth or opinion to or about that power.
The loyalty to the party is fealty, zeal, patriotism and allegiance. Dissent and disagreement is met aggressively, contempt of the other is expressed in the moral rhetoric. Does that approach give loyalists a sense of power?
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What is wrong with promoting what God has said in His word in Romans 1 and the like? When you talk about power didn’t Christ give us the “power” to become the Sons of God by Faith in Christ alone in His death and resurrection. People on the left have a problem with power but it goes both ways. Also not all power is bad it is a matter of the heart and attitude that is the issue. Hepling people to “go and sin no more” seems encouraging to me. If I were sinning I would want God fearing people to help me to turn away from sin in a caring way. Only people who are hostile to God can’t “stand the heat”.
Christ never told his followers that the purpose of the faith was to attain power in order to control and manipulate those around them. For some reason, the religious right in the US has adopted that crazy idea, and it has nothing to do with discipleship.
No one is trying to manipulate those around them. People are trying to help people like Jesus did to “go and sin no more”.
Even Jesus gave us power to be the Sons of God. He even “draws” us by His Spirit to Him so that we can have a relationship with Him. God wants us to be under the “control” of Christ. Even Paul mentions us as Believers as “bondservents” to Christ. However, all of this control from Christ helps us to be free from the bondage of sin. Christ wants us to make disciples and part of that is to help people to not only have a relationship to Christ but to turn away from sin. One of those sins is mentioned in Rom. 1. This isn’t manipulation but care for others who are trapped in the bondage of sin.
All of this reminds me of the song by Bob Dylan “You Gotta Serve Somebody”.
Is it possible for people who expouse Christian values to wield political power effectively? If not, why not?
If it is through political expression we establish the parameters of moral behavior in a democratic society, aren’t Christians compelled to participate?
And finally in the most recent American presidential elections, Mr Kerry expressed as his ethos, honestly or not, that his Roman Catholic beliefs, though devoutly held, would never trump his responsibilities towards pluralism in government. Mr Bush on the other hand, honestly or not expresses views that suggest or at least are suggested by those Christian organizations that supported him, that he is first a Christian and will uphold Christian principals, irrespective of the political consequences.
Putting aside your opinions as to the personal integrity of either gentleman regarding these claims, which in your opinion reflects a truer expression of Christianity?
*Is it possible for people who expouse Christian values to wield political power effectively? If not, why not?
If it is through political expression we establish the parameters of moral behavior in a democratic society, aren’t Christians compelled to participate?*
Yes Paul I believe it is. I believe there are people of faith that can and should serve their constituents well in a poltical office. They need to be grounded and mature individuals.
I do not believe that is achieved under the manipulation of voters by one party.
Political expression in one way to establish laws that maintain order and common good in a democratic society.
Government passes and enforces laws, it cannot legislate morality.
The problems with the abuse of power come not only from the “Christian Right” but also from the “Agnostic Left”.
My personal moral values are much more in line with those espoused by the so-called right - my public and social values are more in line with the so-called left. There is no one to represent me in either of the mainline USA political parties, and I suspect that would be true in most Western democracies. To my mind, the big abuse of power is the reality that what Catholics call the Social Welfare gospel (as practiced by, say, Dorothy Day) has been co-opted by the proponents of the Culture of Death (abortion/euthanasia, etc). And the Culture of life has been co-opted by Big Business interests who make it difficult for the average Joe and Jane to make it through from paycheck to paycheck.
[No one is trying to manipulate those around them. People are trying to help people like Jesus did to "go and sin no more".]
DH, the Christian Right in America has earned its reputation because of its obsession with controlling others through political means. Telling one’s neighbor to sin no more is one thing; seeking power over him is quite another. The Christian Right seems more interested in ruling than evangelizing; in controlling than witnessing. It has completely abandoned the walk of discipleship.
I should also say that I’m not trying to attack you or your faith in any way, because from what you posted, it seems like you are genuinely concerned about your neighbor, not merely interested in sticking it to him. I’m a little perplexed, then, as to why you defend the Christian Right, when its behavior contrasts so severely with your philosophy of faith.
I defend the Christian Right because I feel that moral values are being put aside. I don’t see the christian Right as “seeking power over another”. I see them promoting the “go and sin no more”. When we see people pursuing things that go against Scripture what do we do about it. Even Bene says Government passes laws. Are those laws moral issues? I feel they all are. I feel it is important for a government to have laws that closely resemble what God says in His word. We have the law to “not murder”. I feel that this is not just becasue this is a “good thing” but because this is what God wants us to have as a law. I feel laws are not mainly to prevent people from doing bad things but for a group of people to state what the standards are. Just because people doesn’t follow those standards doesn’t change what the standards are. I will say that to help prevent people from doing wrong behavior is a good thing. I think we need to combine both reasons, prevention of bad behavior and promoting of what the standards are combined.
It also seems that those against the Chistian Right don’t want standards, those that are in Scripture, to be promoted and that is why I defend them. While I do see them not doing as much in helping the poor, I do think that on all of the many other aspects that the Christian Right’s views are closer aligned to them as to the other side.
Is it power when you see someone in the middle of the street about to kill themselves to run and tackle them as a car approaches? That is how I see the Christian Right.
dh, I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I can’t ignore the Christian Right’s lust for power just because it’s focused on enforcing a code of Biblical morality. Christ never bothered to control anyone; nor did he tell his followers to control anyone either. The Bible gives no indication that if Christ were walking the Earth today as he did 2000 years ago, he would spend his time trying to kick Ellen off the tv and boycotting Disney.
[When we see people pursuing things that go against Scripture what do we do about it. ]
According to the Christian Right, the appropriate response would be to start a fundraising campaign, run for Congress, and either pass a law criminalizing the act or strip the offenders of their civil rights. But I do not believe that this is how Christ would approach this problem. I believe that the correct response is to pray for them, talk to them, or invite them to church. The point is to change the person, not just the behavior. And this is why I am not a part of the Christian Right.
I do think Jesus would tell Ellen how to “follow Him” and also mention “go and sin no more”. Also, no one is trying to “control” anyone. When Jesus said “go and sin no more” or stating what is wrong is that controlling? I feel that is what the Christian Right is doing. Pointing out from the Bible what is wrong from what Jesus says and what the bible says and helping people away from those behaviors. Also, no one is stripping people of their rights. People are trying to obtain priviledges which is different from rights. The Christian Rights are trying to prevent these extra “privledges” from becoming rights. If you want to mention rights how about the free access of religion. I feel those rights have been violated.
I think what is good is we can help people change the person AND the behavior both at the same time. This doesn’t have to be either or.
[I do think Jesus would tell Ellen how to "follow Him" and also mention "go and sin no more".]
As do I, but this is not what the Christian Right has done. They have labeled her “Ellen Degenerate,” lobbied to cancel her television shows, and blamed her for a multitude of things. I don’t dare repeat some of the nasty things they have said. This is not what Jesus has done or would do.
[Also, no one is trying to "control" anyone.]
Again, we’ll have to agree to disagree. The Christian Right’s agenda focuses on attaining control over what their neighbors can see, hear, read, say, and do. Do not confuse this with telling them to “go and sin no more.”
[Pointing out from the Bible what is wrong from what Jesus says and what the bible says and helping people away from those behaviors.]
I agree with you. But this is not what the Christian Right is doing. They are not focused on pointing out sin. Rather, the goal is to control the lives of others through forceful legislative means. These are completely different approaches; do not confuse them.
[If you want to mention rights how about the free access of religion. I feel those rights have been violated.]
There is nothing that Christ requires of his followers that is prohibited. The rights of Christians to practice our faith has not been infringed upon. The problem is that the Christian Right confuses the true walk of discipleship with their own quest for power and control, and believes their rights have been violated because they have not yet attained all of the powers they are seeking. But what Christ demands, we have freedom to do.
[I think what is good is we can help people change the person AND the behavior both at the same time.]
I agree. But I believe that this can be done without weilding power over the person. The only reason I changed (and my behavior changed) was because of someone else’s witness and prayer, not because of the authoritarian tactics of the Christian Right.
DH:
I know you like history.
Do some research.
The religious right has waxed and waned over the years, and throughout history. In the US it’s in an upswing for a lot of reasons at this time in history.
It isn’t about your personal faith.
It is about politics, money and power. The use of religious language and symbols is nothing new, language is a useful tool to prey on fear, need for safety and security to get votes and financing.
These are not your people - they will use what they need to use to get what they want.
The job is pretty simple. Convince the voter they want it too. The term hoodwinking has been around a long time.
If it wasn’t one party currently co-opting ‘righteousness and moral values’ it would be the other key party or some kind of political party. That vacuum is a tension and people don’t like tension.
They will take your deep desire to see the world become a better place, twist it and blind us.
Jesus didn’t call you to that - we are not in a culture war - we are in culture to engage it.
Divide and conquer.
And take as many sincere people along for the ride as possible.
In Samuel- David resisted killing Saul. He had every right under law to end Sauls life. Some of David’s men saw it as his obligation.
I don’t know that the lessons have really changed that much.