I’ve been away, to be honest I’ve been so emotionally, mentally, physically and socially weary I have not wanted to function. So the last while I’ve had the opportunity to have a few road trips without having to pay for them. And I’ve taken them, knowing a change is as good as a rest.
And I’ve had adventures - not the kind that makes news or even are fodder for chatter. God-moments where He has met me on my road, and I am grateful.
So, to read this in my tiredness brings something beyond every word I know. I have never met these men, I have seen Mr. Loney’s family on our local news quite a bit, for although the north is big, it is small. And although prayer seems quiet and lost, it is heard.
The Christian PeaceMaker Teams- Iraq have been freed after 117 days as hostages of a Baghdad group calling themselves ‘The Swords of Righteousness Brigade.’
Our hearts are filled with joy today as we heard that Harmeet Singh Sooden, Jim Loney and Norman Kember have been safely released in Baghdad. Christian Peacemaker Teams rejoices with their families and friends at the expectation of their return to their loved ones and community. Together we have endured uncertainty, hope, fear, grief and now joy during the four months since they were abducted in Baghdad.We rejoice in the return of Harmeet Sooden. He has been willing to put his life on the line to promote justice in Iraq and Palestine as a young man newly committed to active peacemaking.We rejoice in the return of Jim Loney. He has cared for the marginalized and oppressed since childhood, and his gentle, passionate spirit has been an inspiration to people near and far.We rejoice in the return of Norman Kember. He is a faithful man, an elder and mentor to many in his 50 years of peacemaking, a man prepared to pay the cost.We remember with tears Tom Fox, whose body was found in Baghdad on March 9, 2006, after three months of captivity with his fellow peacemakers. We had longed for the day when all four men would be released together. Our gladness today is made bittersweet by the fact that Tom is not alive to join in the celebration. However, we are confident that his spirit is very much present in each reunion.
BBC
CBC
Stuff - NZ
Aljazeera Net - English edition
Reuters AlertNet
Peace Talk - CPT founder Gene Stoltzfus
Ekklesia - UK
It appears from reports the men were taken by a cellgroup that kidnaps others. CPT member Tom Fox was killed March 10th. A muslim negiotiator is still missing. Several countries and several faith groups help find these men, no shots were fired.
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Bene, the fact remains they were rescued. Freed? yes but I would use the more accurate term of rescued. It is more descriptive of what actually took place. At least you somewhat corrected the released part with freed but I still prefer rescued.
Rescued - freed - released - they are in the care of the British Embassy in the Green Zone in Bagdhad and hopefully home to their families soon.
You might wish to look at the Ekklesia article’s 10 talking points for balance. And the BBC is at least five hours ahead of North America - there has been good discussion going on.
http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/content/news_syndication/article_060323cptbriefing.shtml
Rescued and freed and released. All very appropriate adjectives.
freed - [adj] having become freed from entanglement; disengaged; freed from bondage
released [adj] set free as from prison or duty
I prefer these definitions from Webster on the term “rescued” a : to take (as a prisoner) forcibly from custody b : to recover (as a prize) by force c : to deliver (as a place under siege) by armed force.
It seems to me rescued is more appropriate in light of the terms which appear to be verbs rather than adjectives. Maybe that is why the definitions are actually different even though they appear similar?
I guess it is a matter of what the term _non-violent” means. While no shot was fired I’m sure the fact that military forces rescued them that there was some form of violent act. There may not have been shots fired but by the very nature of soldiers going in it appears to me to be a form of violent act. (violent that is not negative, many say violence is always bad in this case I say no).
Okay DH, Webster, verbs, whatever you prefer.
Let’s do some gisting.
What prompted the rescue?
Who did the rescuing?
What happened in the neighbourhood after the rescue?
Where is the rest of the CPT - Iraq team, and what is CPT going to do about their Iraq presence?
“Rescued and freed and released. All very appropriate adjectives.
rescued - [adj] delivered from danger
freed - [adj] having become freed from entanglement; disengaged; freed from bondage
released [adj] set free as from prison or duty”
Except that rescuing and freeing someone actually means risking one’s own life for the sake of another to secure their liberty to be ingrates. I, for one, am appalled by CPT’s response. Shame on the multinational forces for rescuing them and denying them their opportunity to choose the time and place of their martyrdom.
Rescuing and freeing means risking ones life in all kinds of ways Mike, verb or adjective.
The multinational force made their decision, the Iraqi forces working with them made their decision: believed they fulfilled their duty and none of their families are grieving tonight.
Why don’t you write their families and commanders and tell them they should be ashamed for what they chose to do.
Maybe your hope to have others chose the the time and place of their martyrdom will be fulfilled in Iraq, or Iran, or Afghanistan, Sudan or the US.
Would you like email links to the JT2F, NZ military, Iraqi forces, the British command, the British Embassy? Would you like links so you can tell US commanders shame for their decision? Would you like links to other agencies involved on other levels such as diplomats and negoitiators? Why not write CPT and tell them what you think?
About 20 Iraqi’s are kidnapped every day. There are western hostages being held. You think the CPT debriefings won’t help free them, say so.
Bene, don’t get me wrong I am glad they were rescued and I thank God for what the armed forces did in the rescue but that doesn’t change my view of being against what they were doing and are doing in these countries.
To answer your questions 1) for the armed forces to do the right thing 2) the armed forces 3)insurgents were destroyed in the process of the resuce 4) I don’t know the bigger question is how the US and coalition forces going to rescue these people as well and will CPT continue to play word games with the term “violent”/”non-violent” when it comes to the rescue of their members?
I still think when looking at the definition of the verb term of the words that it shows a more detailed description of what actually took place. I still think the original terms used by CPT show how they are trying to prevent recognizing who actually rescued them the armed forces. The ones they don’t support. They deserve thanks rather than limiting the recognition these soldiers deserve.
BD, you know exactly what I meant by that, so quit trying to dance with me. The point was that the rescuers were the only class in that act. The CPT folks are the ones who should be ashamed at counting the lives of their rescuers so cheap to make a dogmatic point. Liberal leaning Christians are always very quick to equate fundamentalist Christians and evangelicals of less dogmatic but still conservative outlooks with the Pharisees of Jesus’ day and to heap his condemnation upon them. What they usually fail to recognize is that they are essentially the contemporary heirs to the Saducees of Jesus’ day, and that they do not stand under that light any better than their Pharasaic contemporaries. Then there are the rest of us sheep who are content just to graze in the field, think about how complicated real life is, and golly, why can’t we just go back to chewing our cud. None of us acquit ourselves well, regardless of where we fit in that picture, so frankly, I’m just sick up to my gills of the whole self-righteous discussion coming from all sides of this.
I think that The Belmont Club’s write-up from yesterday (http://fallbackbelmont.blogspot.com/2006/03/widows-mite.html) states my point far better than I can, and I invite you to read it and see how a good many believing AND non-believing people are reacting to CPT’s “witness for the gospel.”
DH:
1) What prompted the rescue?
A tip from one of two man captured by US Forces the night before.
2) Who did the rescuing?
Iraqi Forces,British Armed Forces, US Special Forces, RCMP, JTF2, civilians, unnamed others - including an intelligence group known as Taskforce Black (Scotland Yard, MI6, CICS/RCMP? FBI, SAS)
The rescue took two minutes.
No shots were fired, the kidnappers were gone.
Reports are that CPT were kidnapped by a criminal gang.
3) What happened in the neighbourhood after?
Rescuers withdrew and Iraq forces did a sweep of the neighbourhood. It is an area of Bagdhad called al-Hurriyah which not only has Sunni insurgents, but organized criminal gangs. Bagdad is a city of 7.4 million.
DH: Where did you get - “insurgents were destroyed in the process of the resuce”
4) Where is the rest of the CPT -Iraq and what is CPT going to do about their Iraq presence?
Quote: “The answer that our Christian community gives to these questions has implications for all of our future and it requires our best thinking and action. In the face of overwhelming danger should peacemakers leave Iraq? Do peacemakers belong in such confusing conditions?”
They will do what they always do, evaluate, the rest of the Iraq team is staying for now.
Mike:
Here is what I hear you saying:
The rescuers should be ashamed and the CPT should be ashamed.
I hear you saying CPT should be ashamed because they are liberal self righteous Saducees scoring points that are not a class act.
Rescuers should be ashamed for denying CPT-Iraq opportunity for martyrdom.
May I point out:
Quote: Both Canadians, said David, are “deeply grateful to all those who worked for them and prayed for their release.”
Quote: He (Kember) was very pleased and very grateful to all the British personnel and other forces who had secured his release and that of the two Canadian hostages.”
I read The Belmont Club, and if I am understanding you correcting, you think they make your point better than you do.
The following facts are noted:
a) rescued by multinationals (forces)
b) BBC quotes
c) CPT quotes
The Belmont Club opinion:
1) They (CPT) are like French communist Maurice Thorez
The CPT claim “only protection was in the power of the love of God and of their Iraqi and international co-workers” is hideous
2) and US Baptist Fred Phelps
3) CPT is untruthful by not mentioning their rescuers
4) CPT is right to admire criminal gangs, throwing in with ruffians with a perverse sense of honour
5) if they know anything about this criminal gang they are unlikely to share it with coalition forces
6) CPT on principle would not have placed a call to save Tom Fox
7) CPT sees no ethical contradiction in living in a violent neighbourhood, not did they find it ethically consistant to tell the “Press”
9) it’s self righeous theatre
Am I understanding?
insurgents, gangs they are both against the coalition forces and hense in the same category in myu book. Okay, Iraqi forces did a sweep. Who is to say they didn’t take on insurgents or gangs? Could it be that information is being hidden with regard to the actions taken? I’m not typically a conspiracy theorist but there seems to be some information that doesn’t make sense with regard to this rescue.
Help me understand DH.
“Insugents,gangs - against coalition forces”
Yes, and in a war torn city of 7.4 million is it a problem for you that this group is an internal criminal element?
60 Iraqis died yesterday in bombings and executions.
Already more have died today. 43 Non-Iraqi’s are still being held. As stated earlier it is estimated 20 Iraqi’s are kidnapped every day.
If you can correct those facts, do so.
There are 235 thousand Iraqi forces. Shots were heard fired in the neighbourhood when the rescuers and hostages pulled out.
If you are able to find out whether arrests or killing took place, please post it because I don’t know, and I haven’t seen anything further.
“Could it be that information is being hidden with regard to the actions taken?”
Can you clarify?
The Cdn, British and NZ governments have made it clear they will not be giving out all the information in regards to the special team (Taskforce Black) and they’ve made it clear why. Civilians also work with this taskforce, Iraqi and none Iraqi.
Specify who may be hiding information to actions taken after the rescue and why.
I don’t have the energy any longer to unmangle every jot and tittle you’ve “quoted” back to me. What I said was simple. You’re making it complicated.
The rescuers have nothing about which to be ashamed. I was being sarcastic. The original point was that CPT’s dogmatic position seems to suggest that somehow the rescue tainted a glorious opportunity for its captives to have been martyred. I would maintain that such tactics bear little moral distinction from suicide bombers, picking the time of their own martyrdom.
CPT initially characterized the captives as having been released, which was disingenuous. They were rescued, and their rescuers put THEIR OWN lives at risk to effect the rescue, along with the futures of their families. For CPT not to have acknowledged that forthrightly and unambiguously, giving unparsed, clear thanks to those who took such risks on their behalf is a disgrace to the gospel. It tells people like me that if CPT had its druthers, not only would their personnel have been “martyred,” but the captors would have wiped out the rescuers as well, thus vaildating their position — “See? Violence accomplishes nothing.”
I put insurgents and gangs in the same category. I put all forces against the coalition int the same category. For me I seperate out within those killed as supporters of the coalition and those who are not.
The rest of them proves my point. For people to say “the rescueing was done in a non-violent way” is what I’m trying to disprove and have in light of what I said and what you confirmed. I have no problem that the coalition is hidding the information (the violence done within the rescue of the CPT) but for CPT to conclude that it was “non-violent” is just for me deceptive in light of the obvious and correct limiting of information on the part of the coalition with regard to the operation in question.
DH:
Would you show me where CPT said the rescue was none-violent please? Are you referring to this Addenda?
I do not put insurgents and criminal gangs in the same category. Motives are different, ideology is different. Both will use violence to achieve their goals. insurgents tend to have a political agenda, criminals, self interest.
Mike: It is complicated. Just like our lives, people made in God’s image and organization agendas. We are complicated. It is war, and it is life and death.
Toss in religion and politics and you have further complications.
You pointed me to a blog that is with Pajamas Media. I understand their POV and the funding behind them, I merely addressed what you pointed me to. I am not criticising you because you agree or feel they speak for you.
I missed your sarcasm, it’s difficult in text sometimes. In gisting with DH, I see his grasp of known facts were weak, and predictive adjectives disturbed him. In carrying on more than one conversation,
I apologize for mistaking your intent.
Btw, I am not interested in changing or putting down your POV. Hold it high. I’m am asking we get facts straight as we get into POV’s. If I put you down, then you are welcome to be all over me like lint on a shirt.
No where have I condemned or criticised anyone who put their lives on the line. I cannot and will not.
A lot of people put their lives on the line. That is not in dispute here.
I’ll spare you (and I!) a journalistic response to breaking news over time zones and an organizations ability to respond when they have personal/emotional involvement and are the news. This is my blog and it’s still fun, not work. It’s about giving people a chance to be heard I hope.
Thanks for stopping by, I’m sorry if this discussion sapped your energy, I was glad to see you, and as always you have helped sharpen my thinking and softened my heart. Take care.:^)
Seems weird to me to point this out “As peacemakers who hold firm to our commitment to nonviolence, we are also deeply grateful that they fired no shots to free our colleagues.” when it was a violent act that rescued them. “predictive adjectives disturbed him” because it was a “verb” that got them out in terms of “rescue”.
It is hard for me to accept their appology in light of the apparent predisposition on their part as to why they originally ommitted it.
Okay DH, no one is asking you to accept anything.
As for your need for verbs, that’s fine too. Webster is an excellent dictionary, the fact english is complicated isn’t something I have the enery for either. I accepted your terms of discussion.