It is hard for me to accept their appology in light of the apparent predisposition on their part as to why they originally ommitted it.

Would you show me where CPT said the rescue was none-violent please? Are you referring to this Addenda?

We are grateful to the soldiers who risked their lives to free Jim, Norman and Harmeet. As peacemakers who hold firm to our commitment to nonviolence, we are also deeply grateful that they fired no shots to free our colleagues. We are thankful to all the people who gave of themselves sacrificially to free Jim, Norman, Harmeet and Tom over the last four months, and those supporters who prayed and wept for our brothers in captivity, for their loved ones and for us, their co-workers.

I do not put insurgents and criminal gangs in the same category. Motives are different, ideology is different. Both will use violence to achieve their goals. insurgents tend to have a political agenda, criminals, self interest.

Mike: It is complicated. Just like our lives, people made in God’s image and organization agendas. We are complicated. It is war, and it is life and death.
Toss in religion and politics and you have further complications.

You pointed me to a blog that is with Pajamas Media. I understand their POV and the funding behind them, I merely addressed what you pointed me to. I am not criticising you because you agree or feel they speak for you.

I missed your sarcasm, it’s difficult in text sometimes. In gisting with DH, I see his grasp of known facts were weak, and predictive adjectives disturbed him. In carrying on more than one conversation,
I apologize for mistaking your intent.

Btw, I am not interested in changing or putting down your POV. Hold it high. I’m am asking we get facts straight as we get into POV’s. If I put you down, then you are welcome to be all over me like lint on a shirt.

No where have I condemned or criticised anyone who put their lives on the line. I cannot and will not.
A lot of people put their lives on the line. That is not in dispute here.
I’ll spare you (and I!) a journalistic response to breaking news over time zones and an organizations ability to respond when they have personal/emotional involvement and are the news. This is my blog and it’s still fun, not work. It’s about giving people a chance to be heard I hope.

Thanks for stopping by, I’m sorry if this discussion sapped your energy, I was glad to see you, and as always you have helped sharpen my thinking and softened my heart. Take care.:^)

The rest of them proves my point. For people to say “the rescueing was done in a non-violent way” is what I’m trying to disprove and have in light of what I said and what you confirmed. I have no problem that the coalition is hidding the information (the violence done within the rescue of the CPT) but for CPT to conclude that it was “non-violent” is just for me deceptive in light of the obvious and correct limiting of information on the part of the coalition with regard to the operation in question.

The rescuers have nothing about which to be ashamed. I was being sarcastic. The original point was that CPT’s dogmatic position seems to suggest that somehow the rescue tainted a glorious opportunity for its captives to have been martyred. I would maintain that such tactics bear little moral distinction from suicide bombers, picking the time of their own martyrdom.

CPT initially characterized the captives as having been released, which was disingenuous. They were rescued, and their rescuers put THEIR OWN lives at risk to effect the rescue, along with the futures of their families. For CPT not to have acknowledged that forthrightly and unambiguously, giving unparsed, clear thanks to those who took such risks on their behalf is a disgrace to the gospel. It tells people like me that if CPT had its druthers, not only would their personnel have been “martyred,” but the captors would have wiped out the rescuers as well, thus vaildating their position — “See? Violence accomplishes nothing.”

“Insugents,gangs - against coalition forces”

Yes, and in a war torn city of 7.4 million is it a problem for you that this group is an internal criminal element?

60 Iraqis died yesterday in bombings and executions.
Already more have died today. 43 Non-Iraqi’s are still being held. As stated earlier it is estimated 20 Iraqi’s are kidnapped every day.

If you can correct those facts, do so.

There are 235 thousand Iraqi forces. Shots were heard fired in the neighbourhood when the rescuers and hostages pulled out.
If you are able to find out whether arrests or killing took place, please post it because I don’t know, and I haven’t seen anything further.

“Could it be that information is being hidden with regard to the actions taken?”

Can you clarify?
The Cdn, British and NZ governments have made it clear they will not be giving out all the information in regards to the special team (Taskforce Black) and they’ve made it clear why. Civilians also work with this taskforce, Iraqi and none Iraqi.

Specify who may be hiding information to actions taken after the rescue and why.

Here is what I hear you saying:
The rescuers should be ashamed and the CPT should be ashamed.
I hear you saying CPT should be ashamed because they are liberal self righteous Saducees scoring points that are not a class act.
Rescuers should be ashamed for denying CPT-Iraq opportunity for martyrdom.

May I point out:
Quote: Both Canadians, said David, are “deeply grateful to all those who worked for them and prayed for their release.”

Quote: He (Kember) was very pleased and very grateful to all the British personnel and other forces who had secured his release and that of the two Canadian hostages.”

I read The Belmont Club, and if I am understanding you correcting, you think they make your point better than you do.

The following facts are noted:
a) rescued by multinationals (forces)
b) BBC quotes
c) CPT quotes

The Belmont Club opinion:

1) They (CPT) are like French communist Maurice Thorez
2) and US Baptist Fred Phelps
3) CPT is untruthful by not mentioning their rescuers
4) CPT is right to admire criminal gangs, throwing in with ruffians with a perverse sense of honour
5) if they know anything about this criminal gang they are unlikely to share it with coalition forces
6) CPT on principle would not have placed a call to save Tom Fox
7) CPT sees no ethical contradiction in living in a violent neighbourhood, not did they find it ethically consistant to tell the “Press”
The CPT claim “only protection was in the power of the love of God and of their Iraqi and international co-workers” is hideous
9) it’s self righeous theatre

Am I understanding?

2) Who did the rescuing?
Iraqi Forces,British Armed Forces, US Special Forces, RCMP, JTF2, civilians, unnamed others - including an intelligence group known as Taskforce Black (Scotland Yard, MI6, CICS/RCMP? FBI, SAS)
The rescue took two minutes.
No shots were fired, the kidnappers were gone.
Reports are that CPT were kidnapped by a criminal gang.

3) What happened in the neighbourhood after?
Rescuers withdrew and Iraq forces did a sweep of the neighbourhood. It is an area of Bagdhad called al-Hurriyah which not only has Sunni insurgents, but organized criminal gangs. Bagdad is a city of 7.4 million.
DH: Where did you get - “insurgents were destroyed in the process of the resuce”

4) Where is the rest of the CPT -Iraq and what is CPT going to do about their Iraq presence?
Quote: “The answer that our Christian community gives to these questions has implications for all of our future and it requires our best thinking and action. In the face of overwhelming danger should peacemakers leave Iraq? Do peacemakers belong in such confusing conditions?”
They will do what they always do, evaluate, the rest of the Iraq team is staying for now.

I think that The Belmont Club’s write-up from yesterday (http://fallbackbelmont.blogspot.com/2006/03/widows-mite.html) states my point far better than I can, and I invite you to read it and see how a good many believing AND non-believing people are reacting to CPT’s “witness for the gospel.”