A 59 year old former Viet Nam vet who was wounded in the shooting at New Life Church is not welcome back.
New Life Church in Colorado Springs is seeking a restraining order against Larry Bourbonnais, who is described as a member by the senior minister.
Bourbonnais was slightly wounded by a bullet fragment on December 9th, 2007 when Matthew Murray - who had killed YWAM workers Tiffany Johnson and Phillip Crouse - went to the church and killed sisters Stephanie and Rachael Works.
Murray killed himself according to a coroners report. A New Life Church security guard did fire at him, wounding him.
According to this report:
A church member who suffered minor injuries in the fatal shootings at New Life Church was escorted off church grounds by police a week later because New Life leaders thought he was “volatile” and might be disruptive.
Senior Pastor Brady Boyd said New Life will seek a restraining order against the member, Larry Bourbonnais, but he declined to discuss the reasons.
“We pastor people and care for people and sometimes there’s disagreements,” Boyd told The Associated Press Monday. “And that’s just the nature of a family and a church.”
Boyd said earlier that church officials would contact Bourbonnais to try to reach an “amicable” resolution. He didn’t elaborate.
A war veteran who witnessed a teenager die, one be critically wounded along with her father, and who spoke publicly about church security ‘might be voilitile?’
This event occurred December 9th. Many of us would still be in shock. We’d be grieving. Angry, sad, quiet, vocalizing, mourning, needing to make sense of the senseless, wanting to fix things. Bourbonnais was trained by the US military and this was his response when the shooting occurred:
“She (Assam) was yelling, I recall, ‘Surrender.’ I didn’t want to get in her way. I was unarmed, so I ran kind of up and parallel because I couldn’t see,” said Bourbonnais. “She fired off 10 or 12 shots and we both came around the corner and he started sliding down and he started bleeding. He looked pretty dead. I told her to take a headshot and she said, ‘No, I think he’s dead.’ I took a handgun out of his hand because I was unarmed. I cleared it. It had jammed, I remember that.”
Just like his government trained him to do.
Voilitile? What is wrong with this church? Don’t they have people skilled in trauma counselling and mental health issues? New Life Church has 10 thousand members, it’s the size of a small town.
They turn away the emotionally wounded and seek a restraining order? Unbelievable.
According to Colorada Springs police:
Bourbonnais wasn’t difficult Sunday.
“He cooperated, and we told him that he wasn’t welcome back on the property,” police Sgt. Lonnie Spanswick said.
And mature spirit-filled Christians capable of ministering peace in gentleness to anyone going through post-traumatic stress is too much too ask?
When a senior minister says ‘reach an amiable solution,’ forgive me for being a bit surprised.
Sounds like more people than Mr. Bourbonnais could use some decent counselling at New Life Church.
Voilitile is a police term.
It’s like calling Murray’s victims ‘targets.’ Tiffiany Johnson, Philip Crouse, Rachael Works, Stephanie Works, Matthew Murray. They are dead. Others are wounded physically, emotionally and spiritually.
Police use dehumanizing, desensitizing para-military language to distance themselves and get their job done.
When Christians start mimicking the language, there is a major problem. That is not the language of God. That is not giving honour, worth and dignity to people created in the image and likeness of God. It is not an attitude or language a follower of Jesus Christ needs to embrace. When we do, we take our orders from state employees, we perceive people in lesser ways than we are called to in the Kingdom of God. If the church’s members are willing to accept worship on police terms, perhaps looking for a new church might be in the best interests of their spiritual health and growth.
The Denver Post - Vet lauds female guard
Rocky Mountain News - In his own words
9News - Bourbonnais
Update: KJCT8 news looks at some rumours and speculation
Published 11 months, 2 weeks ago
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“New Life” Church? Sounds like they have a terminal case of the “old life” to me.
I shouldn’t judge, I know, but this type of behaviour is precisely why churchianity has no meaningful impact on people these days, and why people are leaving in droves.
This was an institutional decision, judging behavior is okay.
I think Christianity is having an impact on people these days, just not public, noisy, self-serving numbers driven consumer catering church that craves and uses media and uses God rather than focus on God using them. I believe Jesus has kept His church, and they are busy, quietly, sacrificially.
It is good people are leaving churches like New Life in droves, it tells me many Christians won’t settle for less than knowing Him and the power of His resurrection.
People are not leaving New Life Church in droves. On the contrary, the services are packed, including the ones immediately following the shooting. God’s annointing is on this church, as well as the leadership and Pastor Brady Boyd. This is a very loving, forgiving, and accepting church - don’t be misled by what you see or hear in the media. This particular member used this sad event to shine a spotlight on himself for whatever reason - the details of his courageous acts grew with each interview he gladly gave to the local and national media. There were very sound reasons why he was asked to leave and you can trust it was not a decision made lightly by the leaders of the church.
If you are ever in the area, visit NLC and see for yourself what it’s really like.
Jade: You talk like you have first hand knowledge.
Do you go to New Life Church?
I have been very upset by what happened at NLC. My heart goes out to everyone involved. But removing a parishioner? Is this not a house of God? Is not God’s house open to anyone wanting to worship? Let me ask this question, What would Jesus have done? If the pastors had an issue they needed to address it prior to the service and welcome this man with open arms. I just cannot believe that someone that is a parishioner, someone shot in the incident would be removed at a time he needed the church most.
Yes, he gave interviews and may have embelished what happened, maybe even said things he shouldn’t. What would any of us have done if we had been in his situation? If I was in church and saw someone with weapons dripping off of him shooting anything and everything I would have acted also. I would have tried to do anything I could to end the carnage. If it was within my power to do so I would have done it. Now because this man wanted to do something he is kicked out as possibly being disruptive to the service. A house of God would not have done this. No matter what happened, the church was wrong. Now they are considering a restraining order. I find it all amazing and unbelieveable. If the pastors want to do the right thing they need to open their arms and their doors to this man.
What they did to Larry is so strange for a christian fellowshio
that there has to be more to the story.
Anybody know any more?
Tim
The day after he was removed from the church the organization lawyers phoned him.
That was also after the day the minister told media they were going to get a restraining order against Mr. Bourbonnais.
He told Colorado media he wouldn’t be saying anything public anymore.
http://kjct8.com/Global/story.asp?S=7512373
The Colorado Spring Gazette letters to the editor show the disapproval you are seeing on blogs toward the churches behavior.
I think the question is valid: Is church leadership more concerned about image than helping those who have PTSD and valid trauma responses?
Larry not only put himself at risk, he put the lives of the security guards at risk who were responding to the attacker. He specifically tried to remove the security guards guns from their hands as the attacker came into the church, because he wanted to “save the day” himself. He violated the crime scene, by removing the gun from the attackers hands after he was dead. He made comments after the incident that indicated he could be a risk to himself, and potentially put other members of the church at risk. Don’t judge unless you know the facts.
James, were you there?
He did what he did when the deaths occurred, it’s apparent he was a man in shock. A normal response.
A week later he is escorted out of church by police, had a restraining order put on him, church lawyers and it appears he was not and is not being given support specific to his needs.
The man is a Vietnam vet, that he may have PTSD is reasonable.
He didn’t hide or cover his behavior.
So New Life Church rejects him knowing he is emotionally wounded?
Why didn’t they offer help?
Contaminating a crime scene may be a criminal offense, it is not a spiritual one.
It’s one thing to provide physical aid.
It’s quite another to provide emotional, social and psychological support. It appears New Life Church chose to do none.
I agree strongly with Melissa– I consider him a hero- while others where running for cover, he was brave enough to confront the shooter. Larry needs Christian fellowship more then anything now after seeing and going through what he did. Larry said some things that he shouldn’t have but he was in shock and obviously was not thinking straight. I’m sure all will be ok-With GOD on their side NLC and Larry will work something out.
Your assumption that the church is heartless is absolutely absurdly false!!!! It was widely publicized via the news media (TV, radio, etc.) and by New Life Church as well, that free counseling sessions were available to anyone and everyone both by New Life pastoral staff and other professional counselors brought in from around the country. My understanding is that he was made aware of those opportunities but elected to attend none of those. Additionally, its also my understanding that the church has tried on several occassion to provide one on one counseling and attempt reconcilation with Larry. He has refused all offers. I think the church will continue to reach out to him for some time, but you can’t help someone if they don’t want help.
Knowing Larry since we were teenagers, I can say that he is a ‘Christian-soldier’ and is not afraid to stand up for his convictions and beliefs, or to help people in need.
Reading the press clippings and related blogs this morning in Budapest, Hungary it is clear to me that we want to find out the details of what took place.
Having lived abroad since 1991, my wife and I can provide witness to the poor image of America the mass shootings in American malls, schools, homes, and now even churches provides. What is going on in America today? There seem to be so many people in pain that strike out.
From afar it seems that one of the victims in this senseless shooting tragedy is suffering further. When Larry was in Vietnam, he served in a firebase that was attacked in an attempt to overrun it. Clearly he needs support, not condemnation.
Larry:
You are correct, I personally do not know the church.
It is a mega church. If you get to know 10 or 20 people in a cell group you are doing well.
You are saying you know for a fact Larry B did not avail himself of collective counselling offers. I’ll take you at your word. You also say the church offered reconciliation.
We are told that came in the form of church lawyers.
He was critical of how church security dealt with Matthew Murray. He is a traumatized parishoner who didn’t fit into the square pegs being offered, and the size and culture of the church has little or no room for accomadation for his pain.
This played out in the media by the church also.
Leadership words are there for all of us to see.
I too have read other comments on Colorado blogs from people that know Larry and his girlfriend.
(Thank you William)
I can appreciate your anger at any of us who see the culture of this (and many other evangelical) churches of this size comes under scrutiny and comes up sorely wanting.
The media did not make this situation an either/or.
The church did.
I can appreciate your desire and need to cope by defending leadership (as did Jade). What occurred left thousands of people shaken. For some a service will be enough. For others it will not.
I can appeciate if you were there as a member of New Life you are privvy to information those of us discussing this do not have. If you know Larry, say so.
No reporter came forward with any proof Bourbonnais said what he did. Why not?
I agree with you on this point. Larry B’s experience and how he attempted to cope is a threat to leadership.
That is apparent in public statements and behavior; leadership chose to use police, a restraining order and lawyers.
Leaves many of us wondering who else they treated in a heavy handed manner.
Was the one on one offered with strings attached or as required by victims?
Blaming a witness and victim for not fitting into the dictated square holes doesn’t make sense to most of us.
I doubt Larry B was the only person who didn’t avail themselves of the counselling and ‘reconciliation’ the church offered.
What is the reconciliation being attempted James?
What does that mean?
Reconciliation for what?
I believe both sides of this debate have gotten somewhat emotional, myself included. As this will my last input on this issue, it is prudent to review the irrefutable facts, make some assumptions, provide some analysis, and conclude with viewing this from a Christian perspective.
Facts 4, 5 and 6 below can all be found on the internet in Larry’s interview with the media. To my knowledge they are also corroborated in police reports.
Fact 1 – Larry is a decorated war veteran: No argument here. This nation owes Larry and every war veteran a huge debt of gratitude. We should thank him for his service to our country.
Fact 2 – Larry’s service in Vietnam is irrelevant when analyzing whether his actions at New Life Church were appropriate: Vietnam was a war zone. New Life Church (and every church), in accordance with US Public Law, is a private organization and it’s property is private property. Vietnam was governed by the rules established by the Geneva Convention and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. New Life Church and it’s congregation is governed by US civil law and the rules established by the church itself.
Fact 3– US civil law had jurisdiction in the incident: Whoever responded to this incident, Larry or security guards, were required to follow US civil law. Wartime tactics and procedures were not appropriate in this situation, no matter how well intended.
Fact 4 – Larry put other people’s lives at risk: By his own admission, Larry attempted to take the gun out of one the church security guards hands responding to the incident. In doing so, he placed the security guards life at risk. By his own admission, Larry attempted to distract the gunmen causing the gunmen to take pot shots at him. This resulted in Larry getting wounded. It also resulted in the gunmen’s bullets going down the main hallway towards other people trying to evacuate and placing their lives at risk.
Fact 5 – Larry broke the law: By his own admission, he violated the crime scene by removing the gun from the dead gunmen’s hands. This is against the law. This is why police put tape around a crime scene to keep people away. This could have seriously hindered the police investigation by clouding the situation as to who shot the gunmen (i.e. custody of the weapon). Larry put his own fingerprints all over the gunmen’s handgun. The church security guards with police experience should have been allowed to handle this situation. The local police gave Larry grace on this matter.
Fact 6 – Larry wanted to further violate the crime scene: By his own admission, Larry told the security guard, who shot the gunmen, to shoot the gunmen in the head after the gunmen shot himself dead. This would have been an additional violation of the crime scene. The security guard declined to follow Larry’s advice.
Fact 7 – Larry is a “Christian-soldier:” Only the Lord God knows Larry’s true standing with the Almighty, but I will take for fact he is a Christian based upon his attendance at New Life Church, and the gentlemen above vouching for him. We have previously established the fact he was/is a soldier.
Fact 8 – New Life Church is required to uphold US civil law and ensure the security of its congregation: Even though New Life Church is a private organization, it and its congregation must abide by US civil law. It cannot allow members on their own volition to do whatever they want, or the church itself will be held legally liable. Additionally, as a private organization, it is has the inherent responsibility to look after the physical security of its congregation and to take actions in that regard.
With those facts established, lets analyze the situation. The board of any private organization would have concerns with Larry’s actions because he placed peoples lives at risk and broke the law. Would you want Larry on your private property participating in your organizational functions again without having the opportunity to discuss with him the need to follow directions, obeying the law, and not placing peoples lives at risk? I don’t think so. That’s the crux of New Life’s argument as best I can tell. There is nothing wrong with that. Any prudent organization would do the same thing, and as a private organization they have the legal right to do so. This is the “reconciliation” that needs to take place (answering the question of the individual above). I don’t know, but I suspect that Larry has refused to have that conversation with the pastoral staff of New Life Church. Because of his refusal to talk, New Life Church probably felt compelled to have its lawyers talk to him and to have him escorted off the campus until he does agree to talk to them. Yes, they are a church, but as mentioned above, they are also a private organization that must ensure compliance with US civil law, and they have a responsibility for the well being of their other 10,000 members.
What does it mean to be a “Christian-soldier?” More specifically, what does it mean to be a “Soldier of Christ” (2 Tim 2:3)? The bible is full of examples of soldiers who were men of God. The best example, which is appropriate here, is the story of the Roman Centurion, called out by Christ as having the greatest faith in all of Israel (Matt 8:5-13). The precepts of the Centurions faith were an understanding of submission to authority and obedience – “For I, too, am a man under authority, with soldiers under me…” This idea of submission to authority is usually very well understood by those who have been in the military. That said, many Christians, to include those who have been in the military, struggle with it because they know about “grace by faith.” However, “grace by faith” does not excuse the requirement of Christians to submit to authority and to be obedient to those who are appointed over them. Roman 13:1-3 specifically speaks to this concept, “Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities.” In this case, Larry has an obligation as a Christian to meet with the pastoral staff (who biblically have spiritual authority over him), to assure them of his submission to US civil law, and assure them his actions in the future will not put others of the congregation at risk.
New Life Church is a church. No question there. They have an moral and biblical obligation to help Larry through this time. That is without question. I don’t believe anyone should question that. When you look at Larry actions, understand his Vietnam experience as best as one can, you come to the conclusion that he could potentially benefit from counseling and therapy. It would probably make him a better man and a better Christian. But ask any therapist/psychologist, and they will tell you, that you can’t lead a horse to water. The person has to want to be helped. I’m sure that New Life Church is more than willing to provide these services. What church wouldn’t want to help Larry given the situation that occurred and the circumstances? Give New Life some grace here.
My recommendation is the following. The individual above that knows Larry should contact him directly. It would appear that they are friends and are probably a Christian. They should counsel Larry to meet with the New Life pastoral staff and encourage him to agree to counseling.
The recent shootings at New Life church are said to be reflective of a culture of violence. Yet what no one will tell you is that New Life is itself part of that culture of violence. Former New Life senior pastor Ted Haggard led his congregation into supporting the immoral and illegal U.S. wars into Afghanistan and Iraq and was calling for a U.S. pre-emptive strike against Iran before his perverse sexual nature and drug use was discovered and he was dismissed from his position. The new pastor, Brady Boyd, has not led the congregation into repentance for their warmongering. (The true Church of Jesus Christ is not a warring vessel.) Boyd was selected pastor by the same group of men (the New Life overseers) who were deceived by Ted. These men should step down from church leadership and bow their heads in shame. For years the evidence of Ted’s perverse theology was in abundance but these overseers did not have the spiritual discernment to recognize the error. They fully supported Ted. Now they have installed this morally weak (and former drug user) Boyd as senior pastor, because, being from the compromised and faulty (misnamed) Charismatic movement, Boyd is guaranteed not to denounce any of the numerous false teachers New Life has had associations with.
Boyd’s behavior is similar to Haggard’s. Haggard threatened peaceful dissenters with the police and lawsuits.
Some background on Haggard/New Life:
http://www.christianissues.com/newlifechurch.html
(Boyd will never address the issues at the above site.)
I would like to add some additional thoughts. I believe New Life is retaliating against the shooting victim and witness Larry B. because Larry revealed to the media info that made New Life security look bad.
He told KRDO television that New Life officials don’t like his criticism of the security guard who wouldn’t confront the gunman.
“They said I denigrated the security staff and made them look bad,” Bourbonnais told KRDO.
Larry’s quote taken from this source:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22297690/
So I think New Life’s negative treatment of Larry is retaliation. As a former New Lifer (who left in the ’90s) I can tell you that image is everything to these people.
New Life trying to discredit Larry is the diversionary issue.
When I’ve confronted New Lifers about problems with their teachings and practices I’ve had some of these people respond with untrue character attacks against me. I see what appears to be a disturbingly similar pattern emerging with the church’s response to Larry.
James: Thanks. That was a thoughtful response and describes several symptoms of PTSD to a ‘T’.
Hyper-vigilence, flashback behavior, startle response…cognitive and emotional responses manifesting in behavior visible to others.
And you described very well how unequipped an evangelical structure (New Life Church) is to deal with someone who has been re-traumatized.
Therapy and healing can only take place in a safe and trusted setting.
We’ll have to agree to disagree, Larry B is not safe at New Life Church, leadership went public with their distrust and it wouldn’t matter if they had highly skilled professionals available.
They blew it.
I agree with Brian, they will keep blowing it.
Having seen trauma victims hurt, blamed, discredited, and shunned by fellow evangelicals; knowing in this situation five people are dead, including the shooter (who for all intensive purposes was raised in cultish system) we are going to see a lot more shootings, violence and a hear a lot more stories like Larry B’s.
Evangelical groups (ie: New Life Church) remain ill-equipped, continue to blame the victims, further their trauma, make private property decisions, use law enforcement, self-preservation PR, lawyers and marketers to justify how they deal with mentally and emotionally ill parishoners.
People aren’t buying the New Life spin.
Reconciliation doesn’t happen because a spiritual authority figure ‘demands’ it, reconciliation is a shared process, and a deeply spiritual one, guided by the Holy Spirit over time.
There is no room for egos and structural agendas.
We can all hope and pray Mr. Bourbonnais is able to receive professional help as far away from New Life Church as possible, and goes on to help others.
He’s needed.
A new generation of war vets are coming home.
I smell FEMA…. We all know FEMA is co-ordinating with Mega-church pastors to indoctrinate their flocks to accept GOVT. control(take your vaccination, give up your gun, report to the FEMA camp, give up your children, etc..)
How could the kid kill himself with a jammed gun?
He didn’t. He was shot by an armed citizen. The last thing they want you to know even though the security gaurd who shot him said as much. Just like Virginia Tech. They don’t want us protecting ourselves. They would rather we die than have the power to defend ourselves(against them).
Quit your Mega-church today, join a small local church that still adheres to Christian principles. Go small, go local,
I have no affiliation with New Life Church, nor any of its congregation or the above mentioned (or quoted) people. However, I am a christian, have been part of a church that performed similar tactics on a much, much smaller scale, and believe that most EVERYONE, including the mega church pastors are missing the point.
It is very simple, really. What Would Jesus Do? How would he handle the situation, how would he have acted the day of the shooting, and how would he handle those that were affected after the shooting.
First, he would have NOT picked up a gun, we know that. But I do believe WE are the human ones, and the reaction of LB was perfectly HUMAN, which is inherently going to be flawed. He acted irrationally that day as a man, war veteran, Christian, whatever! He also acted IN FEAR and was trained to handle such situations and did what HE thought was right. Under no doctrine or law will you find a manual that explains HOW to react in that situation. I commend LB for his actions as most would not have even put themselves in harms way (which I assume was to help the congregation). Whether he acted for his own glory, or for the safety of the congregation, ONLY GOD KNOWS, and he will have to answer to that someday. But from the limited information I have read, LB did what HE thought was right for the benefit of OTHERS.
Second. The church SHOULD NOT shun UPON ANYONE, UNLESS physical HARM has been evidenced by that person towards any other individuals in the church. The mere fact that he poses a THREAT to the congregation is NOT enough for a CHURCH to disassociate anyone from them. TO ME, that is NOT CHRISTIAN. The purpose of the church is to lead people TO Christ. here is a distressed, potentially emotionally unstable (due to war vet) man, who witnessed several murders. HE SHOULD NOT BE OK. NOONE SHOULD BE after witnessing that. This is THE TIME for the church to step up and not worry about the almighty dollar (how the public will view their congregation, members, etc..) and to open their arms and help people like LB. I have seen it in so many other ways, its sickening!
Third: to quote James above “But ask any therapist/psychologist, and they will tell you, that you can’t lead a horse to water.”……. well, I appreciate all your civil law talk and legal interpretation, but the bottom line is this CHURCH should be focused on helping those that are lost or troubled…….. so when you say, “can’t lead a horse to water”…… well, ACTUALLY, you CAN lead a horse to water….the CHURCH is supposed to lead all its horses to “water”……….. but you can’t make them drink!!!! I don’t think (based on the information above) NLC wanted to help LB…..they merely wanted to help themselves.
NLC may be “trying to protect” its congregation but at the risk of losing one christian…..No chrsitian is “worth” losing over the risk of others. Chrisitanity is not based on that principle (UNLESS YOUR JESUS). If I understand it correctly, HE was the reason we do not have to sacrifice life for the sake of being saved! God/Jesus performed the ULTIMATE sacrifice for us to welcome and LOVE all, regardless of race, nationality, religion, or behaviors……. Unfortunately, most of these churches can’t see the forest through the tree$ ……..
WHAT WOULD JESUS DO!? He would NEVER have abandoned LB. NEVER. Shame on those responsible. Unfortunately some have to suffer for others actions, while FORTUNATELY we all have to answer for our own someday.