Comments on: C-484 Unintended consequences http://www.benedictionblogson.com/2008/02/10/c-484-unintended-consequences/ Tue, 02 Dec 2008 02:27:01 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Hansard - Ken Epp - C-484 - April 28, 2008 at Bene Diction Blogs On http://www.benedictionblogson.com/2008/02/10/c-484-unintended-consequences/#comment-105005 Hansard - Ken Epp - C-484 - April 28, 2008 at Bene Diction Blogs On Thu, 01 May 2008 08:00:01 +0000 http://www.benedictionblogson.com/2008/02/10/c-484-unintended-consequences/#comment-105005 [...] C-484, a fetal homicide bill has unintended consequences and does nothing to protect mothers or to enforce adequate and existing legislation. It does [...] [...] C-484, a fetal homicide bill has unintended consequences and does nothing to protect mothers or to enforce adequate and existing legislation. It does [...]

]]> By: Bill C - 484 Fetal Homicide Bill at Bene Diction Blogs On http://www.benedictionblogson.com/2008/02/10/c-484-unintended-consequences/#comment-100481 Bill C - 484 Fetal Homicide Bill at Bene Diction Blogs On Thu, 06 Mar 2008 08:30:47 +0000 http://www.benedictionblogson.com/2008/02/10/c-484-unintended-consequences/#comment-100481 [...] written earlier why Canadian benefit the opportunity to weigh for themselves why this is bill bad legislation.  It is not going to take up very much of your time. We are [...] [...] written earlier why Canadian benefit the opportunity to weigh for themselves why this is bill bad legislation.  It is not going to take up very much of your time. We are [...]

]]> By: Bene D http://www.benedictionblogson.com/2008/02/10/c-484-unintended-consequences/#comment-99004 Bene D Tue, 12 Feb 2008 02:13:10 +0000 http://www.benedictionblogson.com/2008/02/10/c-484-unintended-consequences/#comment-99004 Hmmm. I think you are misunderstanding me. This is about legislation, not religious right groups or political ideological motives. This bill was inspired by families of victims who have lost their daughter, their grandchild. Fetal rights bills do not give men(or women) determined to harm a pregnant woman pause. Under current Canadian law judges have discretion and latitude to impose very stiff penalities already in place. We can be encouraging courts to do so without taking away womans rights - which is what fetal homicide bills have been doing. I think a great deal has been learned about unintended consequences from current US law. Canadian courts have adequate existing domestic violence laws. Citizens, agencies, law enforcement, and ideological groups can step up, encourage maximum penalty for offenders, continue education and needed assistance and support for victims and familes without contravening the CC or the Charter. Would such a law give an angry boyfriend or husband pause at hitting his pregnant partner if he knew that causing a miscarriage would get him a very large prison term? Aggravated assault, attempted aggravated assault, assault with a weapon, murder do have 'large' prison terms. CCC: Sections 235, 268, 288 C-484 does not acknowledge it is a crime to attack the woman even though a pregnant women is the care taker of the fetus "10% of women assualted by their partner reported miscarriages 40% reported assault during pregnancy Only 4 in 10 sought medical treatment Only 1 in 4 told a medical professional what their experience was" Statistics Canada, November 1993. Reported in "Wife Assault: The Findings of a National Survey", Rodgers, Karen. Juristat Service, Bulletin, Vol 11, No.9. Canadian Centre for Domestic Statistics, March 1994. Hmmm. I think you are misunderstanding me.
This is about legislation, not religious right groups or political ideological motives.

This bill was inspired by families of victims who have lost their daughter, their grandchild.

Fetal rights bills do not give men(or women) determined to harm a pregnant woman pause.

Under current Canadian law judges have discretion and latitude to impose very stiff penalities already in place.

We can be encouraging courts to do so without taking away womans rights - which is what fetal homicide bills have been doing.
I think a great deal has been learned about unintended consequences from current US law.

Canadian courts have adequate existing domestic violence laws. Citizens, agencies, law enforcement, and ideological groups can step up, encourage maximum penalty for offenders, continue education and needed assistance and support for victims and familes without contravening the CC or the Charter.

Would such a law give an angry boyfriend or husband pause at hitting his pregnant partner if he knew that causing a miscarriage would get him a very large prison term?

Aggravated assault, attempted aggravated assault, assault with a weapon, murder do have ‘large’ prison terms.
CCC: Sections 235, 268, 288

C-484 does not acknowledge it is a crime to attack the woman even though a pregnant women is the care taker of the fetus

“10% of women assualted by their partner reported miscarriages
40% reported assault during pregnancy
Only 4 in 10 sought medical treatment
Only 1 in 4 told a medical professional what their experience was”

Statistics Canada, November 1993. Reported in “Wife Assault: The Findings of a National Survey”, Rodgers, Karen. Juristat Service, Bulletin, Vol 11, No.9. Canadian Centre for Domestic Statistics, March 1994.

]]> By: Mark Byron http://www.benedictionblogson.com/2008/02/10/c-484-unintended-consequences/#comment-98991 Mark Byron Mon, 11 Feb 2008 22:09:07 +0000 http://www.benedictionblogson.com/2008/02/10/c-484-unintended-consequences/#comment-98991 <blockquote>This is a fetal homicide law which may make people feel better morally or emotionally, but does nothing to protect women or achieve justice. </blockquote>I understand that you don't like the motives of the people putting forth this bill, which are generally folks in the religious-right camp, however, I will have to contest the validity of that statement. Would such a law give an angry boyfriend or husband pause at hitting his pregnant partner if he knew that causing a miscarriage would get him a very large prison term? For many, no, but it will cause quite a few guys to think twice. Thus, the bill does <i>something</i> to protect women.

This is a fetal homicide law which may make people feel better morally or emotionally, but does nothing to protect women or achieve justice.

I understand that you don’t like the motives of the people putting forth this bill, which are generally folks in the religious-right camp, however, I will have to contest the validity of that statement.

Would such a law give an angry boyfriend or husband pause at hitting his pregnant partner if he knew that causing a miscarriage would get him a very large prison term? For many, no, but it will cause quite a few guys to think twice.

Thus, the bill does something to protect women.

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