Lukiwski’s HoC apology indicates awareness of the weight of elected office and public service and the honour and trust to be upheld. Quaint but true. He is clear he needs to hold some private conversations with some voters.
I’m disappointed in his 2005 HoC remarks. From Hansard:

“I firmly believe that by passing this legislation, we start on a very slippery slope which could affect societal change in a very adverse way, I see things that have been expressed before that could come down the pike, things like polygamy and others, while hiding behind the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. I am fearful that societal change could happen. Let that be on their heads, not anyone else’s head. It is the members opposite who made that choice and shame on them.”

Cara, nicely said.

Authur, you are welcome to keep or remove your BDBO feed, I’m sorry you feel I’ve judged you, thank you for contributing to our conversation.
You are correct, you most certainly aren’t going to find perfection here.:^)

The email from the New Jim Bakker Show staffer is more than a little troublesome. Has he really changed? I have no idea, and - given that all I have to work with is the tv show - have no way of knowing. (Kind of my point ;>) I think your ‘yes and no’ evaluation is accurate. Frankly, Jim has a kind of homespun way about him that I really appreciate but I wish he was doing absolutely anything other than that show. ‘Yes and no’ is an answer that applies to me, too. I’m not sure what I’ve learned over the years, either - seem to keep making the same mistakes.

In our Evangelical church practice, individual churches are free agents who choose to place themselves under the ‘authority’ (such as it is) of the denomination. In our particular church, it’s not a denomination at all, but an association of like minded churches. So the pastor is very much like a politician - he is presented to the congregation as a candidate and then voted upon by the congregation. So there are some parallels. A few, anyway. Most of the pastors I know are very much political survivors - churches are minefields.

Politicians, pastors, bloggers, commenters on blogs - we all deal in trust, we all make decisions about one another, we try to evaluate actions against spoken word. Some times we get it right, often I don’t. We can only work with what we’re given. Selah.

I feel pity for you too, Arthur.

The other thing that struck me is that no one in that office said they thought Lukiwski had crossed the line. Neither did anyone appear to be uncomfortable with what they heard. Instead it was all laughter and joshing, which leads me to another observation: I know many people who are in a group that’s getting silly, playful and drinking that don’t sink to the kind of unpleasantness we witness in the videotape.

Thanks Cara, that’s exactly what I thought. This is group was acting so completely immoral that it’s hard to believe they’re all “converted” now. I’m sure Lukiwski is (he told us so, so why not believe him?) but that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be fired. Being an elective representative is an honour, a privilege; the only thing left for him to do is RESIGN. Conservatives know this too.

Nevertheless, I CAN forgive him at personal level but will never forgive any asshole politician for making these type of remarks. Resign and move on.

At least I am aware of it. Are you?

Do you honestly think that your actions and hurtful attitudes are any more pleasing to God than mine?

If so, I feel nothing but pity for you all.

Does your “reporting” of all things negative in this world really accomplish anything for the Kingdom, or does it merely make you feel superior because you are so perfect?

I don’t even care how you answer these questions. The answers are between you and God.

I’ve just removed BDBO from my list of subscribed feeds.

During the last sixteen years my attitudes, behaviour and speech have all changed, - hopefully for the better, though some may still disagree.

I don’t care that the guy was 40 years old or in public office. I don’t care that he was, or is, a Conservative. The Liberals and NDP’ers haven’t been guilty of the same behaviour, or worse?

Pastor’s have been guilty of many stupid and sinful acts.
Parliamentarians have been guity of many stupid and sinful acts.
I have been guilty of many stupid and sinful acts.
YOU have been guilty of many stupid and sinful acts.
So, when is an apology enough, (or not?)

Sixteen years have come and gone, for crying out loud!
Judgmentalism like this is one of the reasons I sometimes (often) hesitate to be counted as a Christian.

Just remember that “as you sow, so shall you reap.” That goes for forgiveness as well as in other areas of life. “Do to others as you would have them do to you.” I guess nobody here would like to be forgiven their past sins…..?

I have better things to do than partake in the beating up of another human being over an incident that happened so long ago.

“The following day is a scorcher. The queue at the metal detectors is longer, the galleries noisier, the debate raging.

At 8 p.m., Conservative MP Tom Lukiwski makes a final speech. So raucous is the chamber, so loud the press gallery that I can barely hear him declare that the bill represents “a very slippery slope” that could lead to polygamy.

The Speaker rises and ends the debate. Bells ring to call the vote, and within moments the floor is packed. With the theatre of Question Period over, the MPs become congenial. Separatists chat with Conservatives and New Democrats; Liberals smile and whisper with Tories. They touch each other a surprising amount: a handshake, a hand on a shoulder, kisses on both cheeks. Then MPs from both sides slam their desktops, urging procrastinators to their seats. The chamber quiets.”

The vote was taken. Equality in the Making, Dimitry Anastakis: The Walrus Magazine October 2005

[Rhymes with kerouac] I got an email today from a former New Jim Bakker Show staffer who says he rebuffed sexual advances and was hounded out. His question was -”Has he really changed?”
I think yes and no. I’m not doing a story, I have no proof one way or the other.
There are also rumours Bakker was in hospital this week and it may be cancer.

What do you think?
Is an elected public office the same as as a pastoral office?
A political party is responsible for member discipline, that is what a house leader, caucus and whip is for.

I’ve been thinking about that ever since. It raises an interesting point. Is an apology enough? When is it not enough? Jail time? Re-education camp? For how long? Jimmy Swaggert sobbing in the pulpit - was that enough? Was it real? How would we know? At what point is a man humiliated and shamed enough? How much is not enough? I recently witnessed a pastor crucified at one of our local churches and learned that Orwellian group think is only one metaphor away from a lynch mob …and sometimes I’m the one looking around the room to guage what everyone else is thinking.

I tend to agree with your sentiments about the man honouring his office and stepping down, except when that honourable action later becomes political canon shot for the other party. How much of that is enough?

I have no idea. I thought I knew, but I don’t. No clue.

Incidently, the same female speaker who wanted to send a letter bomb is now Wall’s parliamentary secretary. This same govt is doing everything to bust unions with the latest attack againsts nurses.

But, sure, they are all real sorry and really they must be forgiven - quickly - and move on. How about still waters run deep.

I did some pretty stupid stuff 16 years ago, (as did we all,) stuff I wouldn’t dream of doing now with the little wisdom I have attained since then.

I believed some pretty stupid stuff back then, too,… Stuff that in retrospect was downright un-enlightened.

I still haven’t arrived where I hoped I would be by now in terms of enlightenment, wisdom, knowledge, and my relationship to my Father in Heaven.

I’m so glad so many of you have. I am so glad so many of you are in the position that you can finally see the beam in my eye.

Please just do me a favour and pray that I will one day arrive where you are. NOT!!!