Comments on: Schizophrenic Christianity

By: Jeri Massi

Jeri Massi — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:48:36 +0000

Let’s consider those 57 ingredients in Heinz. If only one is poison, the whole bottle is bad.

The problem with corruption is that it spreads. The “schizophrenia” of Fundamentalism is that it confronts the worlds over sin and ignores the exact same sins in Fundamentalism.

Sorry, but nobody is allowed to be THAT independent in God’s name. Paul writes that we are members one of another. He excommuni cated and rebuked across church boundaries, as did John.

In the instance of Fundamentalism, the good churches are actually lending credibility to the bad churches. And again, the independence, which is a radical, unbiblical autonomy that guarantees the pastor immunity from any type of accountability or church rule, is not the Biblical model of church government. It is foolish, and it assures one thing. No matter how good your church is NOW, eventually it will fall just like First Baptist of Hammond has fallen, Calvary Baptist of Culpeper has fallen, and Trinity Baptist of Jacksonville has fallen.

But, again, Fundamentalism is mere hypocritical quackery, because it will rebuke a gay bar full of unbelievers but look the other way when a Fundamentalist minister uses his pulpit to mask a homosexual affair. It will criticize unsaved men for looking at pornography, but nobody ever got in the pulpit and rebuked Dave Hyles for MAKING pornography with church women. And the idea that this double standard is somehow OK with God’s impartial justice, or that Fundamentalism, relying on such hypocrisy, is going to accomplish ANYTHING for Christ, is Schizophrenic. Or delusional. Either word works.

By: Naomi

Naomi — Sun, 20 Apr 2008 16:31:12 +0000

It is unfortunate, but now-a-days it is not uncommon to hear about abuses in churches regardless of denomination. That does not change the fact that such abuses are wrong and a shame to the gospel of Christ.
Yet, somehow it seems wrong to say that all IFB churches are the same and have the same problems. The only truly common denominator (denomination-wise) among Independent Fundamental Baptist churches is that they are INDEPENDENT, meaning that each is unique. I have heard it expressed that Baptist churches are like Heinz ketchup — there are 57 varieties or more. However, I would like to submit to you that there is one other common denominator — all churches are made up of sinners saved by God’s grace. And as sinners, people will always fail us. Is that an excuse for gross misconduct? No, as the Apostle Paul puts it, “God forbid.”
Perhaps my opinions seem naive, or it appears that I want to see everything through rose-coloured glasses. This is not the case. I grew up in and continue to attend IFB churches, and every single one of them has some sort of blot on its past. However, this is hardly a reason to write off these churches. To paraphrase the Bible, “A rigtheous man falls down seven times, but he still gets up again and moves foreward.”
The church that I attended until I left for Bible college went through a great shock while I was a teenager. The director of the children’s ministry was discovered molesting several of the children. The pastor immediately called the police and turned in the molester. It was a very difficult time for our church as you can imagine, but most especially for those of us that were teenagers. You see we teenagers took turns helping in children’s church; we saw how the director interacted with the children. There were some times that he did things that made us uncomfortable, but even looking back on it now — what we saw him do could not be construed as wrong. It was more intuition than cold hard facts. That is probably why those of us that helped out felt so responsible after everything came to light. “We should have guessed… we should have payed closer attention… we should have talked to the children more… should have…should have…should have.” — this was what our conversations were like for nearly a year.
However, our pastor did not just sit on his hands and go “woe is me!” He took decisive action to make sure that nothing like that ever happened again. He had large windows cut in the Sunday School room doors. There are now always two adults in every Sunday School class, and there are now two extra adults working in the children’s church. He also set up protocol’s to make sure that no adult was ever alone with any child — whether it be to pick them up or drop them off for church, in a class, or any possible situation. Also, all workers must undergo a criminal record check.
Yes, this hurt the church terribly, but we recovered. And we took steps to prevent such things from happening again. If you wish to confirm this story, the children’s director was Curtis Spitzburgeon. It happened at Berean Baptist Church in Elberta, Alabama in 1995. The pastor of our church at the time was Jimmy Robinson. I know the names of the five children that were molested, but I do not think it appropriate to post them on a public forum.
In this church as well as the other churches that I have attended, when something like this happened it was swiftly and fairly dealt with. Whether it was a case of child molestation (which I have already told you about), or an affair by the pastor, or a case of embezillment by the pastor — none of these situations were tolerated or even “winked” at. Surely, it was hoped that these people would repent and get right with God, but it was clearly understood that they would never be given any kind of responsibility again and that they would always be closely watched.
While I understand that there are some churches where things are not properly dealt with, there are also some who do things as they should. While Jeri Massi’s idea of a database for offenders is a good one, it is much easier said than done. There are many churches who do not affiliate with any of the four IFB groups that she detailed before — and have no desire to affiliate with them. Also many people will point out that most states already have a sexual offender website — so why should we make another one?
While I think that the book will be very helpful to some, may I suggest that for the next book focus more on how to help churches to avoid these situation instead of looking only at the problems?
I grew up reading Jeri Massi’s books and I know that she has an excellent way with words. I am sure that she can make a great impact on helping these churches to set up guidelines as my church did as well as emphasizing the need to get back to the Bible. If people are submerged in God’s Word as they need to be, then they will more easily recognize situations that could become abusive and as a church congregation deal with them. “The people die from lack of knowledge,” as the saying goes — in this case knowledge of the Bible.
All of the above is my humble opinion. I still have a great deal to learn and do not presume to know more than any of you. However, upon reading several of the comments on this website I felt a need to express a slightly different point of view. I hope that it will help you as much as your opinions have helped me and given me much to think on. God bless.

By: Ingrid

Ingrid — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 01:59:19 +0000

Jeri Massi is 100% correct. As a Christian radio broadcaster in a large Midwest city, I am personally familiar with specific cases of IFB pastors involved in sexual deviancy and immorality and in these specific cases, the pastors got off free and one of them is back in ministry again. He destroyed families across the country in the churches he pastored with his serial seduction of young women and had a stash of porn in his office three feet high. When he finally left, the pervert pastor loyalists caused a split among the remaining members because they still wanted to offer his “valuable teaching tapes” in their church video library. Two deacons actually came to blows in the parking lot over the matter. It’s a complete farce/cult, all in the name of “Bab-tist” churchianity. The other pastor was caught in a lewd act in my public library where my young children spent so much time. He was publicly masturbating while watching an attractive woman across the room and got caught by two library employees. Guess what? He found out one of the women witnesses was Roman Catholic and told his church that he was the victim of a Satanic plot to destroy his ministry. They all believed him. It really made him something of a hero to be part targeted by Satan himself. He’s been back in the pulpit several years now endangering his members and bringing further shame on Christ. These people didn’t care about the truth, they wanted their idol in the pulpit and they got him, public masturbation and all. It makes me want to vomit. Jeri has done the church a great service and I hope she’ll be doing interviews when the book comes out.

By: Jeri Massi

Jeri Massi — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 17:39:09 +0000

OK, just tell me who the deacon is, if your story is true. I mean, the man is in prison, a criminal, so who is he? What church are you talking about? No, I frankly do not believe you. And I will add that I name the churches and the pastors and the pedophiles in my book, but you attack me here without naming one person as proof. So go ahead, prove I am using a broad brush. Tell me what wonderful IFB church this is that helped put a criminal deacon in jail and will follow up to make sure future churches are warned about him.

But then you would have to explain how they can track him when so many other IFB churches will take him as a member, no questions asked. And you’d also have to explain how he would fail to lie his way out of having to own up about his past when there is no database of offenders or publicizing of offender names in the IFB, in spite of the fact that Paul says to keep a record of those who walk unworthy of the calling of Christ.

Go ahead, I’d like to read your response.

By: Dawn

Dawn — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 13:17:16 +0000

Once again Miss Massi has failed to check her facts out. She has no idea what the name of the church is and she is already getting her broadbrush out. This church sends out letters when its members go to another church. The clerk is very prompt with that.
When I switched churches the clerk at my new IFB church wanted to get a letter of transfer from my former church. This man had to go before the church and go under church discipline.
So you can not lump all IFB church’s together.

By: Jeri Massi

Jeri Massi — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 01:49:22 +0000

When that deacon gets out of jail, he can go join any IFB church he likes, and nobody will stop him. There will probably be no follow-up from the church from which he came, to warn any other churches in the area when he is released. The church he wants to join will not ask for a letter of recommendation from his previous church (and IFB churches used to do that, but many no longer do). And there is no central documentation of public record in the IFB to maintain a list of church officers who have grossly sin and abused their office.

Cooperating with a police investigation is something a church HAS to do. Assuring that a man who violates his office is biblically rebuked, removed from office (with public acknowledgment), and discipled in order to be properly restored is grossly ignored in the IFB.

By: Bene Diction

Bene Diction — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 23:08:59 +0000

Hi Dawn, thank you for pointing out my lack of clarity.

The case you are familiar with with may well be in Schizophrenic Christianity or at Blog on the Lilypad.

The big broadbrush is mine, I’m familar with the Criminal Code of Canada, less with US state and federal law.
Holding an author accountable for oversight in an international review would be unfortunate.

Massi has documented cases that have been through US courts.

By: Dawn

Dawn — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 22:16:58 +0000

I attended an IFB church. While there abuse from the deacon came to light. He is currently in prison. He had no where to hide, the pastor did NOT protect him.
It is a big broadbrush that Miss Massi uses.