However, American soldiers are murdering civilians in Iraq and have been for years.

Thanks very much for posting this. I suspect that you and I would disagree, however, on whether this is better than the original quote in the Milton Canadian Champion. I believe the new quotation leaves Mr. Turner in equally hot water, for good reasons.

“And those computers fulfill no function but to guide that shell from our Canadian Army howitzers into villages to kill people. I mean that’s a reality.” - Mr. Turner

I object to this construction just as much, and would have sent a letter to the editor of the Champion expressing my objection, just the same.

The Canadian Army’s ammunition is used when necessary to fight Taliban soldiers. It is not right to say that it has “no function” but to be sent “into villages to kill people.” These words read as if Canada is making war on civilians in villages. They read as if our soldiers are, at the very least, indiscriminate in their use of force.

As a Halton resident, I find this kind of comment very embarrassing when it comes from my MP. And unfortunately, this kind of thing is not an isolated incident with Mr. Turner.

As an aside, I would like to say that I find your manner of debate to be fair and honourable - a polite back-and-forth in proper language and with respect for your interlocutor. Much credit to you, Bene D, even if we may be on opposite sides of this issue.

I have a very hard time accepting Mr. Turner’s style, by contrast. His frequent use of foul language and name-calling (e.g. “weasel”, “prickish”, “bastards”, “whore”, “chickenshit”) in his comments about those with whom he disagrees is… mortifying. It doesn’t seem to me to be worthy of a Canadian elected official. MP’s should strive to elevate the level of public discussion and debate, not to lead it deeper into the gutter.

A positive thing that has come from Mr. Turner’s incident is that I’ve had the chance to discover this blog. I share your skepticism about religious extremism - I like my religion liberal, embracing, positive and uplifting. So I’ll keep reading!

All the best,

Cam Battley

A reporter from the Halton paper was present and taped the comment from Mr. Turner.

“As you know we live in a time that is complex and is contradictory. You know our country is at war. Our country is spending $150,000 on every artillery shell that we’re shooting in Afghanistan. Those artillery shells have GPS. They’ve got computers in the tips of them. And those computers fulfill no function but to guide that shell from our Canadian Army howitzers into villages to kill people. I mean that’s a reality.

“We’re there for a defined set of seasons. But, this is a contradictory time that we live in, when we don’t have enough funding for your youth centre. You know you could almost buy everyone in Afghanistan a condominium, right, for the dollars that we spend. So it is a very contradictory time.”

I have to disagree with the May 13th letter to the editor criticizing MP Garth Turner for his so called slur against the character of Canadian men and women serving in Afghanistan.

I believe Mr. Turner was taken out of context.

I don’t doubt for a minute that Mr. Turner supports our troops as they serve our country for the principles of freedom and democracy. All our prayers are with our military personnel including their families at home

I along with my colleague were grateful that our MP would hold a Halton Faith Leaders Roundtable gathering for the purpose of listening to leaders from various communities of faith. The gathering was a time of open and honest conversation about the social and moral concerns within the Halton region.

Near the conclusion of the meeting, Mr. Turner attempted to name the many “contradictions” in our society. I think he was deepening the conversation by pointing out how extremely challenging it is to address the many needs within our society with limited funding.

Some may judge his comparison of a military “shell” and “youth centers” as poor, but in my mind he never intended to criticize our Canadian forces. Instead, I think our MP was being honest by clearly naming the incredible challenges our leaders and communities face when trying to work for improving the quality of life for all people.

Rev. John Benham

I am very concerned with the letter printed in the Champion concerning this meeting. I believe that every meeting hosted by a member of parliament is an “open” meeting and the representative is accountable for all of his or her remarks and positions.

However, I also believe that we are all held accountable for our remarks and we should always take care when taking comments out of context and projecting those comments into a policy statement or one that captures the entire position of the representative in question.

Mr. Turner took great risk–more than he bargained for it seems–hosting this meeting and as a participant, I was very impressed with his demeanor and his openness in the meeting. For the most part, he did not skirt the questions asked or avoid stating his positions on issues.

I certainly remember the comment and the context surrounding the comment, and at no point in my recollection did Mr. Turner make a comment trivializing the efforts or mission of our troops in Afghanistan. My impression was that he held only high regard for our armed forces and the sacrifices that they make on a daily basis. The comment that he made, that has been “quoted” in the letter was not made lightly or in jest or as a comment about the mission. My recollection of the moment was his highlighting that when we are establishing and prioritizing funding for government spending, we seem to find it very difficult to allocate funding to the youth of our country, but we don’t question the cost of artillery.

There is irony in the situation that the person took a position attacking Mr. Turner and trying to paint him as anti-armed forces but did not take a stand with Mr. Turner when it comes to supporting the youth in our own communities. I pray that we would all support peace in every part of the world, that we will always think twice about when and where we used armed intervention, that we will all seek the best possible care and nurturing of our children, and that we will have appropriate political debate about issues and be honest in our debate of the issues. There is much to be done in our communities and in the world to make them better places to live; political smear campaigns will not advance those pursuits.

Peace be always with you.

Rev. Jeff Ward

I understand where you’re coming from, but I think maybe you’ve put your finger on one of the things that has us in Halton so frustrated with Mr. Turner: as you say, his “flippant” comments.

We live in this riding, and Mr. Turner is our MP. So when he makes flippant comments about important issues, without doing his homework, it is both embarrassing to us, and is akin to nails dragged down a blackboard.

And this latest example is worse than Mr. Turner’s previous careless outbursts. There’s no getting around it: He used very specific language in claiming that artillery shells were being bought “for the sole purpose of destroying a village in Afghanistan”.

He didn’t say, for example, “These shells are very expensive. We should consider the relative value of investing in our military, versus what we could achieve through investing in social programs.”

He offhandedly accused Canadian troops of something vile. And then he blamed a reporter for allegedly taking his comments out of context, and he blamed me for simply writing a letter to my local newspaper, saying “Hey, that’s not right!” He accused me of “smearing” him with his own words, for heaven’s sake!

Mr. Turner has shown a pattern of behaviour. He’s never met a microphone he didn’t like. As long as he’s in the spotlight, he’s happy - until someone calls him on one of his outragous statements. Then he gets furious and defensive.

I realize this may not seem like a big issue to you. But in Halton, we’d just like a MP - from whatever party, frankly, Conservative, NDP, Green - who cares less about his ego and profile, and more about bread and butter issues that affect us. Fewer photos on his blog, showing off in leathers on his motorcycle, and more nose-to-the-grindstone, sometimes boring but always important work as an MP.

Does that clarify things a bit? It’s why I wrote a letter to my local newspaper, and it’s why I still want to hear him apologize to our men and women serving in Afghanistan.

All the best,

Cam Battley

Seriously, your reaction to this has been ridiculously hyper-sensitive. Grow up. You know his point wasn’t meant to denigrate the armed services and the “village” is just a flippant example of a target. If he’d said “cave” would that have changed your reaction? Give me, and the rest of Canada, a break.

To the Military:

You really should check the facts before shooting off emails to the people who continue to support you and authorize the money needed to fund the operations that enable your mission. (note that I too support the mission in Afghanistan)

I wrote the letter to the Milton newspaper, seeking Mr. Turner’s apology to our soldiers in Afghanistan.

Last night at 11:14pm, I posted this comment (below) in reply to Mr. Turner’ mention of me on his blog. It was the third comment on his article last night, but by this morning Mr. Turner had deleted my note.

This seems to me to be unfair censorship… and not very proper for an MP in dealing with a comment, phrased in temperate language, from his constituent. Especially because Mr. Turner claims on his website that he is “Canada’s Digital Democracy Leader”.

I’m hoping that Bene Diction will have a stronger sense of fairness.

Thank you very much, and best regards,

Cam Battley

***********

Hi, Mr. Turner:

I’m the Halton resident who wrote the letter to the Milton Canadian Champion, calling for you to apologize to our troops.

Did you just accuse me of “smearing” you? I don’t think the people of this riding would consider my repeating your own awful words, and condemning those words, as “smearing”.

The reason I sent that letter to the Champion is that I was mad. I felt that you had finally gone beyond just promoting yourself and seeking constant attention… to saying something untrue and indecent, in an offhand manner, to try to score some political points.

Canadian troops do not set out to destroy villages. Period. To claim that they do so, with artillery shells of whatever price tag, is wrong. And cruel.

So who is really guilty of a “smear”? In my opinion, it is you who have smeared the young Canadians who are putting their lives on the line to help the people of Afghanistan.

You should be ashamed of these comments, Mr. Turner. And you should apologize immediately and publicly.

Yours truly,

Cam Battley

By Cam Battley on 05.13.08 11:14 pm

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