A Baptist minister in Deland Florida has taken a four week leave of absence while police investigate death threats against him.
His crime?
Rev. Sean Allen started at First Baptist Church last September and made the decision to remove the US flag and the ‘Christian flag’ from the front of the sanctuary in October.
I have to be honest, I didn’t even know what a Christian flag was until a few years ago.
Police are taking the threats very seriously, he’s received at least 3, including in his home mailbox. I’d get the family outta Deland too because I don’t think people who mix up religion and nationalism and carry their belief to threat level can be reasoned with.
Nationalists equate faith with symbols of nationhood.
If upset church members think they need a ‘theological’ explanation for not having flags at the front of a worship space, then I don’t think any explanation is going to be satisfactory.
It’s possible the threats aren’t coming from a member of the church, but that doesn’t lessen the danger, and it’s a big leap.
The first note showed up in February in the mailbox of Allen’s DeLand home, the police report said. It said, “Time to resign.”
On April 13, the pastor discovered another note left in a hymnbook on his chair in the church that said, “To stop rumors resign,” Long said.
The May 1 letter that showed up in his home mailbox and prompted his leave of absence seemed to contain a threat and ultimatum, Allen told police.
“The letters were not addressed to him but were obviously meant for him,” Long said.
According to a church member who asked not to be named, Allen was concerned primarily about the safety of his wife and young children
The U.S. and church flags were not necessarily present each and every Sunday but were in the sanctuary a majority of the time and on special occasions like Christmas, Easter and Veterans Day, Long said.
Allen tried to address the issue through meetings with individuals, community groups and congregation members, Long said. Long said the flag issue had not come up for discussion again since those meetings.
Rev. Allen’s picture is not in it’s slot on the church staff page. Wise.
Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy – Nationalism
Published 1 year, 10 months ago 19 comments
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Was the taking down of the flags in conjunction with some sermon referencing government in some way? Did they remove them in the middle of a service to make a point?
Something doesn’t sound right about this. I don’t know if half our congregants would notice if we removed the flags. So what would be the point is my question?
I hope that he and his family are safe and that this is not someone’s attempt to garner attention in some way. It reminds me of a baptist church that was going to have a spring cleaning a few years back and low and behold they find a Ouji board during the cleaning. Right…
We don’t know the whole story, I agree. I’m guessing the police released it in the hopes someone who knows something will step forward.
It’s a big church, about 3 thousand attendees, 40 noticing the flag has been moved and getting fired up about it makes sense.
“The U.S. and church flags were not necessarily present each and every Sunday but were in the sanctuary a majority of the time and on special occasions like Christmas, Easter and Veterans Day,” according to the one of Johnny Long, education pastor.
There is a NY area Anglican priest on YouTube who takes the viewer through a scary/funny tour of the church basement.
ok, I am sure Rev Allen had a specific reason he did what he did. I don’t know if i would have done it. The main problem I believe has to be inside the congregation, notes left in a songbook. As Bene D commented we do not know the whole story. Pray for the pastor and his safety, but most importantly pray for those causing such a stir.
My name is brit and i need your prayers as well.
I started a blogsite just the other day, and I need your support
http://www.owhatasavior.com
GOD BLESS
He only took the flags out of the sanctuary, not the church. The sanctuary is a place for God, not a place for patriotism. The US flag still stood within the church
Thanks Clint.
The Reverend Mr. Sean Allen is right on target. Historic Baptists believed in Separation of Church and State, and he was pastor of a flock of people who got their theology from the radio and television, but not Scripture, History, or the Consititution of the United States. There are always some goats in the flock, and they are those who cause damage to the name of Jesus Christ and his church. Men and women who value the teachings of Jesus and the love of this nation will clap their hands for such a stand as Allen took. Being in Baptist Land in Florida doing such a deed is exactly what Martin Luther did when he nailed his thesis on the chapel door. What a man of courage!!! -Wendell Franklin Wentz
My parents attend this church and I visited a while back. Clint is correct, the flag was removed only from the sanctuary, not entirely from the property. It was removed because he felt that the sanctuary was a place to focus solely on the worship and honor of God alone.
The saddest part is that the congregation showed that they were in charge and would get their way. They had no trust in their pastor as shepherd. What stood out to me as I visited was that one of the pastors got up and announced how great it was that giving was back up now that the Pastor had left. People actually stopped giving their tithes to God as an act of rebellion. That is very indicative of the mindset that is going on there.
Very sad. Now they have a search committee to look for a new pastor. Anyone want THAT job?
I’m so sad to read the article above and the comments, from people who clearly do not know what happened here and what they are talking about. I have worked for FBC-DeLand for almost 6 years. This story, has been blown out of proportion, and exagerrated. Pastor Long has been mis-quoted by the media (wow, like that never happens, because you know we can all believe everything we read in the media, and see on T.V.!!) where you copied the story from, and Sean Allen was not asked to leave, he left because he chose to. Nothing we said or did could convince him to stay. He left the church in a state of brokeness hurt and shock, wondering what it (the church) did to make him leave. I can tell you…the church did nothing to make him leave…just the contrary…the church bent over backwards to ask him to stay. The church stood up for the pastor, and in a public church meeting, asked that if the person who had sent the notes to him were in our midst, that person should leave the church…not the pastor. FBC-DeLand is being judged because of the actions of one person…probably not even a member of the church…how truly tragic that people think they know what is going on, who really know nothing about it. SEAN NEVER RECEIVED A DEATH THREAT!!!! I repeat, never received a single death threat. The mis-guided person who left three notes, the last note was in his mailbox not the first like your article states, asked for his resignation, no mention of threating him or his family lives. The church has given Pastor Allen a separation package that would be laughed at by any secular company, because it is so extremely lavish for someone who chose to leave, and who only worked for the church for 7 months. The congregation voted and upheld Pastor Allen’s decision to remove the flags from the sanctuary. As for the young man who says his parents attend the church and that one of the pastors stood up and said that it was great that giving was up again now that the pastor had left…young man, you must have dreamt that, because that, I assure you, never happened. Neither of our two pastors on staff here, took any joy over what has transpired, in fact they have been left behind to deal with on continual phone calls, commentary, and judgements of those outside of the church who think they know, when clearly they know nothing. This church is not perfect, but it is a Godly place. It has an outreach program that helps the poor, that most churches do not have in place, because of the love and generosity of its members. So, please, instead of judging what you know nothing about…why don’t you pray, for Pastor Allen, for Pastor Long, for Pastor Collins, and the staff, and for FBC-Deland. Church of Jesus Christ, instead of throwing stones, demonstrate love towards one another.
You are saying there is one person, misguided, who doesn’t exist in your midst, who just left an anonymous note(s) asking him to leave?
Resign this Sunday or else…
That’s not a threat? Variations of that are not threats?
Doesn’t matter if it comes from one person inside or outside a congregation, something happened.
And the other two notes you mention said…
Of course people don’t know the full story, people who were there can speak as you are.
I understand your congregation voted not to put the flags back, some people who say they attend the church said the trouble was caused by a minority, not one misguided person.
I understand Rev. Allen left.
Do you believe these kinds of threats and harrassment to be nationalism or not?
How was your minister misquoted?
What part of this post is incorrect?
That’s very kind to give Rev. Allen a generous severance package that would be ‘laughed at by any secular company’, and it’s decent of your church to help the poor, when ‘most churches’ don’t ‘have an outreach’ in place.
Of course people involved would have emotional response to what transpired, I don’t see anything in this post or comments indicating otherwise. No doubt staff is very busy dealing with fallout.
A congregation holds a public meeting, has staff speak to media, removes flags, admits there were notes; those events aren’t blowing things out of proportion, those are fact.
You just confirmed those facts as a witness and added a few more.
What was the police investigation conclusion?
I believe the threat is not coming from the members of the church but it is likely it may be coming from there. I only hope he is safe and also members of his family. How i wish religion and christianity can be separated by people who participate in it.
I was online and i visited your blog. you are doing a good job
To Bene D
People ultimately believe what they choose to believe, as you are doing. As I stated, this church is not perfect, no church is because churches are only filled with imperfect people. This media exploited sad event only injurs the cause of Christ. You ask me questions, but I say to you…have you prayed about this? I repeat…stop throwing stones. I am praying for everyone concerned, how about you?
Dolores:
“but I say to you…have you prayed about this? I repeat…stop throwing stones. I am praying for everyone concerned, how about you?”
You chose to come here, you are my guest, and I’m not blind to the pain of the facts. It is your church, your anguish. Yes, this medium offers the opportunity to pray, a priviledge I could never have imagined.
You remain in my prayers.
I don’t expect any body of believers to be perfect, that is an unbiblical flawed way of thinking.
What stones are being thrown?
I am so disgusted when I read stories like this one -even after hurting the pastor so terribly and pushing him out, the church response is that it’s not their fault. They respond selfishly instead of realizing their sin. Meanwhile this pastor and his family are damaged forever. I speak from experience
Too bad churches don’t act Christian!
Did he have a meeting beforehand with the congregation before taking the flag out? Was it a unilateral act? If so, it sounds like he was being pastoral to his own theology and not the congregation.
Stushie:
I only have what has been made public and what is written here.
Fox reported the decision as singular – ‘he’ -and nativists came out of the woodwork at a Fox blog.
http://community.myfoxorlando.com/blogs/Patrick_Pegues/2008/05/15/Pastor_Threatened
Fox News reported Long as using singular:
“Long says some members of the congregation became upset when Allen decided in October to remove the U.S. flag and the church’s Christian flag.”
AP(Daytona Beach News-Journal) quotes Long using singular:
“Sean was of the belief that because we are a church, we are a people of Christ, we should be focusing on the cross of Christ,” Long said. “So he removed the flags from the sanctuary.”
The question I have is – are the flags back now that Rev. Allen is gone?
Your question and mine can only be answered by people who go to this church.
Delores appears to indicate in her comments the October decision wasn’t unilateral.
Is this the same First Baptist Church that has the sign about necromancers in front of it? I was not sure if there was more than one First Baptist Church in DeLand.
Denise I honestly don’t know. There are a couple of Baptist Churches in the area, only one First Baptist I found.
I’m not familiar with the sign.
Got any more details?
I looked up FBC DeLand Florida in images, if you saw the church you might recognize it.
Glad to report that the flags have been voted back into the church. The group that removed the flags were making a political statement that had nothing to do with advancing Christ in the community. Their aim was to change the church into some type of new age church where they could worship the trees, clouds, and mother nature in general. The flag removers knew they were doing wrong because the deed was done in the dead of night…they thought that nobody would notice. Also, the minister said that he would not recognize veterans on veterans day and if they wanted any recognition then they could go to some patriotic ceremony in the community. Glad to say this “minister” decided to leave.
“Their aim was to change the church into some type of new age church where they could worship the trees, clouds, and mother nature in general. The flag removers knew they were doing wrong because the deed was done in the dead of night…they thought that nobody would notice. Also, the minister said that he would not recognize veterans on veterans day and if they wanted any recognition then they could go to some patriotic ceremony in the community. ”
That is 100% false. I also attended all those meetings. The sole purpose of the removal was as stated, solely theological. That “Bob” sees it as political betrays the real objection: suspicion of a Obama-type pastor. Sean was accused of visiting and colluding with Rev. Wright, etc.
NOBODY ever had any ideas as nonsensical as to “worship trees” or ‘mother nature”! In this town? You couldn’t fill a phone booth with such people. The truth is, those who were in such an uproar, making the most vicious verbal attacks and personal insults; i.e., “Does he have any Muslim blood in him?” were and are nationalistic sorts who don’t know the difference between the flag and the cross as appropriate symbols or the U.S. constitution and the Bible.
Anyone who doesn’t think a 30% minority can make life so miserable as to cause anyone to leave as a pastor is blind. I spent 16 years as a pastor, and one person who daily harasses is painful, much less 30%.
And those threats were terrorist. (Also, putting those things into a mailbox is cowardly–and a federal offense.) I challenge anyone whose wife is at home with a four year old and a few months old baby when such threats are being put in their mailbox to not feel assaulted and endangered.
This was the worse outrage I ever heard of, and I have been an ordained Southern Baptist minister since 1957.