MP Ken Epp insists that his private member bill C-484 is not about abortion or fetal homicide, it’s about women. MP Brent St. Denis has introduced C-543 which is a quick amendment to the criminal code addressing violence against a pregnant woman, and C-543 should take the debate off the table and put concerns to rest.
There is no reason supporters of C-484 can’t get behind C -543. Is there?
Published 7 months, 3 weeks ago10 Responses to “One body. One person. One count. Stiffer sentence”
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Bene,
Does this amendment not still introduce (by implication) the notion that a fetus is a “person?”
“(ii.2) evidence that the offender, in committing the offence, abused a person who he or she knew, or ought to have known, was pregnant”
I’m not seeing that, the focus stays on the assault of the woman.
How do you see it?
Dr. Dawg - I don’t see a personhood opportunity with this bill. Basically it just means a harsher sentence for the existing criminal act of grievous assault against a pregnant woman (no “unborn victims” stuff). However, the loss of the pregnancy is recognized with harsher sentencing.
Good find! That bill is what 484 should have been in the first place. But…I don’t think that C-517 reflects the long term goals of C-484’s supporters.
MgS - I don’t think so either.:^)
I keep hearing that pregnancy is already considered an aggravating factor which influences sentencing. According to this, Bill C-543 (and C-484) would be unnecessary because it’s already in action.
Does anyone know if this is true, if it’s already codified in law somewhere, and if so, how it’s written?
I know that the College des medicins de Quebec opposes this bill; I just haven’t been able to put my finger on exactly/legally why it’s problematic.
Saturday, July 5, 2008
As the sponsor of Bill C-484 in the House of Commons, let me try to answer this question. My motivation for introducing the “Unborn Victims of Crime Act” was and is to protect the children that are brutally taken away from pregnant women by violence. These are willing mothers carrying wanted babies, and some third party comes along and violently takes away both the woman’s choice and the baby that she is eagerly anticipating. In Canada, there is no charge available against the assailant for the death or injury of the child. Olivia Talbot of Edmonton was targetted specifically because her assailant did not want her to have a child. The child lost its life, but so did the mother. There were charges of murder with respect to the mother, but no charges for the death of the unborn child.
C-484 does not change the definition of “human being.” It provides for charges to be laid in the death of the unborn child using language already in the criminal code.
In sentencing, judges are permitted to consider “aggravating circumstances” but they are not presently spelled out. So in that sense, Bill C-543 changes nothing except to specify that pregnancy can be used as an aggravating factor. However, it can already be used as an aggravating factor along with anything else that the judge considers to be aggravating. However, I have grave doubts about the effectiveness of this. There was a woman in Atlantic Canada who was attacked with a SWORD which the assailant plunged into her abdominal area up to 15 times according to court testimony. He was specifically targetting the baby, but, of course, did an awful lot of damage to the woman’s internal organs as well. She will suffer the rest of her life from this attack. Several of the sword plunges went right through her body, coming out the back. The attacker was convicted of attempted murder, aggravated assault, assault with a weapon and possession of a dangerous weapon. So he got the maximum sentence of 15 years. However, I am pretty certain that due to the gravity of the assault, and its gruesome characteristics, he would have received the same sentence if she had not been pregnant.
I would welcome your study of the papers that I (and my staff) have prepared which are posted at my website http://www.kenepp.com. See especially the “Key Points,” “Facts,” ” Questions & Answers” and “Cases.” I guarantee that you will find these informative.
Thanks for giving thoughtful, rational consideration of Bill C-484. I think it is much more valuable than all the hysteria and mis-information that is raging. Remember that MP’s vote on the actual wording of the Bill, and judges bring down judgements based on the actual wording of the Bill.
Thank you!
Ken Epp, MP
Edmonton — Sherwood Park
Mr. Epp: Thank you for your site link and for taking time to provide some of your reasons for writing C-484.
Colleen,
http://www.benedictionblogson.com/2008/02/10/c-484-unintended-consequences/ may be a jumping off point. for you.
It is codified in law, as Mr. Epp points out, I believe Mr. Epp is saying with this bill that he feels judicial latitude in sentencing is insufficient.
The following groups in Canada oppose C-484
Abortion Rights Coalition of Canada http://www.arcc-cdac.ca/c484.htm
Link to websites of or statements from the following organizations http://www.arcc-cdac.ca/statements.html
Action Canada Population Development / Action Canada pour la population et le développement
Action ontarienne contre la violence faite aux femmes
Atira Women’s Resource Society / Société De la Ressource Des Femmes D’Atira
BC Government Services Employees Union
BC Teacher’s Federation, Feminist Caucus
Canadian Anti-racism Education and Research Society (CAERS)
Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies / Associations canadiennes des sociétées Elizabeth Fry
Canadian Auto Workers Union / TCA Québec
Canadian Bar Association / L’Association du Barreau Canadien
Canadian Federation for Sexual Health / Fédération canadienne pour la santé sexuelle
Canadian Federation of University Women / Fédération canadienne des femmes diplômées des universités
Canadian Feminist Alliance for International Action / L’Alliance canadienne féministe pour l’action internationale (FAFIA/AFAI)
Canadian Labour Congress / Congrès du travail du Canada
Canadian Students for Sensible Drug Policy
Canadian Union of Postal Workers, Prairie Region
Canadian Union of Public Employees / Syndicat canadien de la fonction publique (CUPE National)
Canadian Union of Public Employees, Vancouver (CUPE BC)
Canadian Women’s Health Network Le Réseau canadien pour la santé des femmes
Canadian Youth for Choice
Canadians for Choice/L’Association canadienne pour la liberté de choix
Catholics for a Free Choice - Canada
Le Centre femmes de La Mitis (Mont-Joli QC)
Centre de santé des femmes de Montréal
Centre Novas, CALACS francophone de Prescott-Russell, Casselman ON
Le centre Victoria pour femmes (Sudbury et Algoma)
Centres des femmes du Québec (various ones)
La Clinique des femmes de l’Outaouais
Coalition Against Violence, St. Johns NL
Colibri – Centre des femmes francophones du comté de Simcoe
College of Family Physicians, Gender and Equity division
Le comité de femmes de l’ASSÉ (Association pour une Solidarité Syndicale Étudiante)
Le comité de vigilance IVG de la province de Quebec
Communications, Energy, and Paper Workers Union of Canada (CEP) / Le Syndicat canadien des communications, de l’énergie et du papier (SCEP)
La Confédération des syndicats nationaux (CSN)
Conseil du statut de la femme, Québec
Elizabeth Bagshaw Women’s Clinic, Vancouver
Egale Canada / Égale Canada
L’Escale de l’Estrie, Sherbrooke
Fédération des enseignantes et enseignants de CEGEP (CSQ)
La Fédération des femmes du Québec
La Fédération interprofessionnelle de la santé du Québec
La Federation des médecins omnipraticiens du Québec (FMOQ)
La Fédération des médecins spécialistes du Québec (FMSQ)
Federation of Medical Women of Canada
Graduate Women’s Studies Student’s Association, York University
Halifax Coalition for Choice
La Fédération du Québec pour le planning des naissances (FQPN) Appel à l’action
International Consortium for Medical Abortion
Inter Pares
Jer’s Vision: Canada’s Youth Diversity Initiative
Kitchen Table Collective/Le Collectif de Table de cuisine
Law Union of Ontario
Medical Students for Choice
Miss G__ Project, Ottawa Chapter
National Abortion Federation, Washington (op-ed piece, April 26).
National Advocates for Pregnant Women, New York. relativement aux lois sur les enfants non encore nés victimes d1actes criminels.
National Advocates for Youth
National Association of Women and the Law (NAWL) / L’Association nationale Femmes et Droit (ANFD)
National Council of Women of Canada / Conseil national des femmes du Canada
New Brunswick Advisory Council on the Status of Women
Newfoundland and Labrador Feminist Coalition
Newfoundland and Labrador Provincial Advisory Council on the Status of Women
North York Women’s Shelter, Toronto
Ontario Association of Interval and Transition Houses (OAITH) and Women’s Habitat, Toronto (In English)
Ontario Coalition for Abortion Clinics
Planned Parenthood Ottawa
Prince Edward Island Advisory Council on the Status of Women / Conseil consultatif sur la situation de la femme de l’Île-du-Prince-Édouard
Pro-Choice Action Network Pro-Choice New Brunswick
Public Service Alliance of Canada / Alliance de la Fonction publique du Canada, Ottawa
Saint-Laurent Student Association
Sexual Assault Support Centre of Ottawa
Sisyphe
Society of Obstetricians and Gynecologists of Canada / la Société des obstétriciens et gynécologues du Canada
South Fraser Women’s Services Society, Surrey BC
University of Victoria Students’ Society
Westcoast LEAF, Vancouver
Women Elders in Action (WE*ACT), Vancouver
Women’s Habitat
Women’s Health Clinic, Winnipeg
Women’s Legal Education and Action Fund (LEAF national)
Youth Coalition for Sexual and Reproductive Rights
Yukon Status of Women Council
YWCA
Public Service Alliance of Canada petition
CONTRE LE PROJET DE LOI C-484!
(5833 members)
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=13570276753
Oppose Bill C-484
(5255 members)
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=10524705862&ref=mf
I Oppose Bill C-484: Support Equality and Choice for Women
(457 members)
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=10353261862
SIGN PETITION ” Against Bill C-484 - Unborn Victims of Crime Act.
(359 members)
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=9448394506
C-484 is supported by these groups:
http://www.evangelicalfellowship.ca/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=5445
Evangelical Fellowship of Canada
http://www.fotf.ca/tfn/life/stories/2008/080416.html
Focus on the Family Canada
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/opinion/story.html?id=a9b895a6-f9dc-4022-9404-3dbd26cc0b70
Margaret Somerville
http://www.campaignlifecoalition.com/national_news/2008/news_0508.html
Campaign Life
http://www.cccb.ca/site/content/view/2581/1214/lang,eng/
Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops
http://www.ccrl.ca/index.php?id=4950&content=League welcomes result of vote on Bill C-484
Catholic Civil Rights League
http://www.canadiansformoralclarity.com/
Canadians for Moral Clarity
http://www.catholicregister.org/content/view/1395/849/
The Catholic Register
Support Bill C-484
(4503 members)
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=26129314304
Supporters of the Unborn Victims of Crime Act
(1044 members)
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=8996774538&ref=share
I support Bill C-484
(463 members)
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25613705408
Unborn Victims of Crime Act
(34 members)
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=8362566121
Why should pregnancy be a factor that demands a stiffer penatly?