Comments on: California State Christian University

By: Bene Diction

Bene Diction — Thu, 15 Sep 2011 22:30:44 +0000

“The professors were all current or former pastors holding doctorates from accredited institutions.”

Can you tell me when you graduated Ray, and what accredited institutions your professors graduated from?
If you want to just list your profs, I can look up their education.

By: Ray Bennett

Ray Bennett — Thu, 15 Sep 2011 20:47:57 +0000

As a graduate student of CSCU, I can personnaly attest to the rigors of the scholastic requirements. Each course required a minimum of reading and submitting reports on three outside books, in addition to the materials used in classroom instructions. Immediate feedback to the professor regarding the students comprehension of the subject matter was the result of small classes in which the interaction between student and professor was required and unavoidable. The professors were all current or former pastors holding doctorates from accredited institutions. The unique aspect of CSCU that attracted me is the fact that the courses emphasize application. It is insufficient for institutions to teach theory without application, thus leaving the graduate without the training necessary to apply the knowledge obtained through study.

By: Goddie

Goddie — Wed, 15 Jun 2011 03:12:47 +0000

I can attest to the changes Robert has been talking about. CSCU has truly metamorphosed into a quality school. We need to support their efforts and promote quality Christian education rather than focusing solely on criticism. But I admire the work BD has done to shine light on some of the issues cited above.

By: Robert Orr

Robert Orr — Tue, 19 Oct 2010 08:02:51 +0000

We are still in the process of getting the contracts for all the Canadian schools. Getting course descriptions, instructors qualifications, hours of instruction, assignments etc all need to be put together. We have sent in an application for affiliate status with the American Association Of Biblical Higher Education which is recognized by the Department of Education in the US so we will require all affiliates to have all courses meeting or exceeding the Accreditation. The Academic Committee of CSCU will evaluate the information received and then only courses approved by the Academic Committee will be approved for matriculation.
Re your question of Honorary Degrees. I don’t know if there are any records of them. We do have records for Academic Degrees as we are required by State Law to have transcripts available for 50 years. There isn’t any state requirement for Honorary Degrees and the requirement to keep records. I can check to see but right now we have very strict guidelines for an Honorary Degrees. These include but not limited to
1. 25 years of fruitful ministry
2. References as to Christian Character
3. Recommendation and approval of the Academic Committee
4. No more than one D.D. and one D.Litt within any given country in a year. A DD is honorary to someone in Christian Ministry and the D. Litt, Doctor of humanity is normally given to a businessman who as a Christian has made a great contribution to the Cause of Christ through time effort and resources.
We have removed all requirements that Honorary Degree Candidates be asked to make a donation to CSCU. Many schools I am aware of use Honorary degrees to raise funds by giving degrees to those whose philanthropy gives a large donation to the school. We don’t want to get into that trap.
My personal philosophy is that if you sell a degree that is the price of your integrity so to preserve the integrity of our character and the schools integrity as well these guidelines give us a good way of honoring those who truly deserve to be honored without being in the degree selling business.

By: BD

BD — Sun, 10 Oct 2010 03:10:33 +0000

If I am understanding you correctly, Canada Christian College, Victory, Kingdom Covenant and Rhema have complied with your requests?
The honourary degrees Canadians formerly connected with California State Christian University gave themselves remain as bogus as than when they handed them out to themselves and friends.
Do you have the old records?

The post is updated, linking to your latest comment.

By: Robert Orr

Robert Orr — Sat, 09 Oct 2010 23:42:43 +0000

Just to inform you of a few items:
1. We have written to the webmaster at EOPC asking them to remove the information about CSCU on their website.
2. As discussed, you can email me and I’ll send you a copy of the contract we sent to EOPC if they want to continue their relationship with us. As the contract outlines only classess and instructors who meet the standards of accreditation will be allowed to be transferred for academic credit. the contract outlines in detail what those standards are.
3. While accreditation takes time including having students education evaluated and a set number of graduation classes which can take 5-8 years the American Biblical Higher Education an accrediting body with the US Department of education is allowing us to become an affiliate member while working on all the items required.
While it is not full accreditation it assures students that certain standards are being met.
4. As per the guideleines of the Consumer Agency in California who supervises all post secondary education both public and private we have and are coninuing to develop relationships with like schools ie who specialize in religious training, who will receprocate with is in transferrring credit in and out. What that means is we have an obligation to accept like courses when their students come to us and they have an obligation to accept courses taken from us if our student go to them. These agreements forces each school to due due dilegence to insure what they are accepting meets the standards of whatever accrediting body they belong to. So it becomes a reality that accredted schools who examine what you do recognize it as meeting the standards give a validity to what you do. That is why we have insisted and will continue to do so that the highest standards required of accrediting bodies be met in our academic program.
5. I know since I have a blog that it is possible to post items either chronologically or with the most recent blogs seen first if you would be kind enough to post most recent first it will inform people of the real changes that have occurred in the past year and the earliet posts are over 18 months old. I have no objection to the earlier posts as the mistakes made were real and the correction of these mistakes has taken dilegent work over the past 2 years.
6. We have also told students that the requirement of the State of California is that Academic records for transcripts must be kept for 50 years. Therefore only students registered with us, studying in our main campus or a liscensed Approved Learning Center, will be allowed to matriculate and receive degrees from us and only those courses transferred in from a like school in terms of academic rigors will be accepted as part of the transfer record. This insures the student applying for a job that the work they have done to earn their degree is real and also insures employers they can count on the school to give the training required. This is the reason denominational bodies are comfortable with sending students to us.

By: Robert Orr

Robert Orr — Thu, 07 Oct 2010 06:32:14 +0000

We have and I will be happy to send you a copy of the letter severing our relationship with EOPC. It is signed by myself as the Academic Dean and Dr. Samuel Kim who is the Chancellor and the one who originally developed the relationship with EOPC.
As we met with the consultants regarding satellite and extension campuses it was made clear to us that organizations like EOPC who offer training courses cannot carte blanche transfer those into our university for credit. That is why we have asked that detailed course descriptions including assignments hours of instruction, a instructors qualifications be sent to us for evaluation. We make no promise of granting a specific number of units but only promise to evaluate it for transfer in. The students are also required to have a critical mass of courses from us that are provided on DVD and are hosted by a proctor to insure class participation and work is done.
I will also check the EOPC website as I haven’t ever looked at it personally. If there are things that should be changed I will notify them in writing.
I appreciate your help as we are trying to not only re-image CSCU but also make it a unique educational experience for those desiring to serve Christ and see their world’s transformed

By: Bene Diction

Bene Diction — Wed, 06 Oct 2010 22:15:47 +0000

I see only the hyper link at the EOCPC is gone, they are still advertising your website as theirs.
As well they are advertising a December 3 credit module for California students.
A 2008 page is still up listing a Western Canada representative for California State Christian University.
Victory appears to have removed your site as has Canada Christian College.
Alberta and Ontario legislatures granting accreditation status is about political favours, not standard of education.

As you attempt to establish, I suspect issues will arise between you and Canadians who used it as a money grab.
The groups listed in the post aren’t known for transparency, ethics or quality.

Your website is loading quickly, easy to navigate, clear social networking and I understand it would appeal to a segment of a US churched population you are already in touch with.

By: Robert Orr

Robert Orr — Wed, 06 Oct 2010 07:58:00 +0000

We developed a contract for all the schools that wish to continue to work with us and that includes adhering to the requirements of the academic discipline regarding hours of instruction. We also require a fixed percentage of courses that our excellent faculty has done be taken so there is a real viable input and record of studies done with us rather than us accepting at face value whatever is taught elsewhere. We also require a bio of the instructor of any courses taught locally along with a detailed syllabus. It is then evaluated by the Academic Committee and then one of 3 options is taken
1. The course is not acceptable for Credit
2. The course is acceptable and meets the requirements
3. The course needs to be modified are re reviewed in order to be acceptable

So we have sent the contract to the schools in Canada informing them of the changes. Until we receive a contract and letter of agreement to abide by the academic rigors we will not matriculate any students from Canada. Already the EOPC has ceased to use the CSCU link as they have been asked to refrain from its use until their courses have been evaluated and a signed letter of agreement is reached.
You can verify with EOPC that indeed we have told them that their will be no more degrees or courses accepted until the academic issues are fully resolved.

As for your other question every school of higher education as the accrediting association has informed us receives the majority of their funds through donations, bequests and financial grants. As they looked at our financial model they noted that the major weakness in our administrative structure was our dependance on tuition dollars, and the generosity of a few individuals. Our donor base was neither larger enough or broad enough. Without the development of this component we would be unable to gain the academic accreditation we desire
The part on the website for donations is part of that endeavor to raise the amount we need for our ongoing financial base.
Our current faculty are, as our model demands, are skilled practitioners who teach in their area of specialty for a small stipend nowhere near what even a guest lecturer would make at an more established school. They are committed to us because they believe so strongly in the model of education we’ve developed. People like Dr. Larry Richards, Dr. Dale Salico, Dr. Charles Kraft and others all minister full time and have all been either full time or adjunct professors at leading colleges and seminaries like Wheaton, Dallas, Talbot, Fuller, and Gordon Conwell. They are seeking to leave a legacy in the lives of our students so the gospel can be transmitted faithfully for generations to come.

I hope this answers your questions satisfactorily. I’ll check back on the blog in a couple of days.
Give me your feedback as well on our website redo!

By: Bene D

Bene D — Sun, 03 Oct 2010 05:08:29 +0000

Dr. Orr:

Thanks for the update.
I note the physical move to Wilshire Avenue Community Church.
Is the major group of Baptist Churches you mention Transformation Ministries?

I acknowledge your four teachers have earned degrees and that you are pursing a different learning model.

How did the break from Canada Christian College come about? If you don’t mind me asking, where does the money you solicit online go? Was there any sell off between California State Christian University and Canada Christian College?

I wish you well, if the break has been made, I hear you saying you are now operating under the laws of the State of California and pursing a different path.