In reading some of the above entries, it strikes me that none of these people are saying what IS the correct way to teach and train a child. As a public school teacher, I have witnessed first hand what has happened over the past 20 years as our society has decided that parents spanking their children is child abuse, and so has abstained from this practice. I think that most people will agree that we have serious behavior problems among our young people, and respect for authority is almost nonexistent.

While there are many ways to teach and train children, corporal punishment has its place among them. When done correctly, it is quick and brings a direct association between the wrongdoing and pain, thereby causing the child to avoid this behavior in the future.
Corporal punishment does NOT include slapping kids across the face, pulling their hair, locking them in closets, burning them with cigarettes or other instruments, yelling, shaking, or yanking the child around. It is controlled, deliberate, and accompanied by words of instruction and encouragement.

It is not fair to compare personal abuse as a child with people who use spanking as a part of their childrearing. Should guns be outlawed because some people abuse their use? Should cars be abolished because some people break driving laws and end up hurting others?

Just my 2 cents worth.

Yes, I did mention that I was abused. I saw it first hand and know it’s ugly head.
I know I didn’t deserve it, warrant it, ask for it or any of that other stuff.

However, long ago in my heart of hearts I understood that we are all acountable before one! God and God alone.

I forgave my father, easy as that. His sin was not mine to bear nor to allow to tear me down.

I forgave because I know what it is like to be totaly forgiven!

He did the best he knew, I’de like to think anyway. But that only serve to mold part of the person I have become.

My time here is up, I am one of those KJB only kinda persons. It took much prayer and meditation to come here and I will not be convinced otherwise.

No, I do not deny God the father, the Son or Holy Spirit.

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

God uses whatever means needed to save the lost.

1 Cor 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

“2 Tim 3:16 is used as justification of KJV onlyism.”

My basis for standing on the KJB is not out of this verse but out of faith for the preservation of the infalible word of God, which he promised to keep for us till he come.

Ps 12:6 The words of the LORD [are] pure words: [as] silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

I have read several others and found way too much error and deviance from what God intended. Who is man that he should think himself wiser to correct or better translate the word of God?

The so called niv even leaves out entire verse …why? atrocious!

As for commentaries? No thanks, God speaks plain english to all. Only the unsaved cannot understand.

1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

Forgiveness is the most beautiful thing; next to God’s love for us.

But I will not leave without saying this: I cannot nor will I answer for how others have “used/abused” what the Pearls have written. For my part it has produced happy, honoring and God fearing children. A healthy fear is a good thing,

Ps 19:9 The fear of the LORD [is] clean, enduring for ever:

Ps 33: 18 Behold, the eye of the LORD [is] upon them that fear him, upon them that hope in his mercy;

Not once did I for a second believe that they were promoting half of what you are insinuating and I feel sorry for all the folks that can not see past that.

Thank you for your time, compassion and concern.

In Christ,
A

This will be long, thank you for helping me define what I believe.

There are three main ways Christians look at scripture.

a) The Bible is inerrant — free of error;
b) Its authors were inspired by God; and
c) The Bible is the word of God and reflects accurately the will of God.

Many religions believe their text is inerrant. I’m hearing you say you interpret the bible literally, without room for figurative, symbolic or metaphor understanding.

The Pearls are KJV only. Literalistic. Inerrant. Bibliolatry. KJV onlyism is a cult of Christianity.

I mentioned the Pearls were dominionists, (a religious/political belief system) their beliefs are laced with gnosticism and Plagiarism.

They toss around the terms like biblical, authoritative, meaning the Bible is supremely right, defines all we believe and everything we do, it is binding on all people, all cultures all history.
The Pearls interpret, judge, instruct, you obey. And you pay.

Since authors of the bible are God inspired, they can’t have written with human fallibility, God doesn’t change so all the bible applies to all cultures for all times.

Infallible (my belief) means the bible is trustworthy was the true source of faith and doctrine.

The Pearls believe corporal punishment of children is a core biblical belief and they use the Old Testament.

They tell you, the parent, can’t be faithful to Jesus if you don’t hit your children.
In the inerrancy the Pearls peddle, (based on dominionism) children are no different than strong willed animals and the behavioral modification techniques they sell are no different; (Michael cites mules as an example) their techniques use predictable responses to unpleasant stimuli.

I mentioned that in comment #5.
Break their will, make them compliant, the parent is conqueror.
(Because you love your child of course)
Children are to be prepared in the dominionist system to be compliant adults with instant, unquestioning obedience response.
You, the parent are to use corporal punishment to absolve the guilt of sin for your child who is not old enough to understand the substitutionary atonement of the cross.

That is heresy.

The Pearls and others like them throughout extreme fundamentalist evangelicalism do not make a distinction between training and obedience.

The Pearls books are carefully marketed to:
1) New, frustrated, uncertain, isolated, busy, tired parents who are Pearl assured that parental anger will dissipate when their techniques are used.

2) They appeal to parents concerned for their reputation; their techniques will produce happy, immediately obedient children who will save the parent from public embarrassment. It works well in isolated movements (FLDS, JW, KJV etc)

3) They promise perfect domestic peace, a flawless Leave it to Beaver, Brady bunch Christian home. That is mystical consumerist bunk.

One person I read going through the Proverbs verses you supplied compares the Pearls techniques to domestic idolatry, where children are a spiritual battlefield, not a gift from God, although adherents use cognitive dissonance to believe and survive the latter.
The Pearls personally practise separatism; the state and others outside their belief group are enemies motivated by Satan, evil, who will steal your kids.

Proverbs 20:30 refers to the wounds of Christ

Proverbs 13:24 In the Pearls belief systems physical chastising (what Christ endured) must be done to children for them to achieve salvation which comes through punishment and pain. If you love your child you’ll hit them, teach them submission to your control and authority. The sooner you start, the better.

The Pearls promotion of violence mirrors their belief an angry God did this to his son. Parents beat your children so they don’t have to face God’s anger.
Proverbs 22:15 – same as above.

Doctors see dead children, severely and permanently injured children of parents who take the Pearls of this world literally.
In the US they see far too many children injured by fundamentalist parents using religious justification.
They rarely see abused Jewish children whose parents have used Old Testament law as justification for corporal punishment.

You use Proverbs to explain your literalism.
That is expected when someone is taught or imbraces innerrancy.

Proverbs 23: 34-35

I think it is interesting Proverbs is a book that begins to move away from ancient, patriarchal and tribal social norms.
God begins to reveal His character in the Old Testament, His traits; preparing the way for the greatest act of love in history. He unfolds knowledge in the Old Testament and begins to share who He is, and that we have been created in His image and likeness.
Proverbs moves away from familial relationships as property/currency.

You ask:

“God also says: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies. Psa. 58:3b

What does God really mean here?”

Same as He means elsewhere in scripture. ie: Isaiah 53:6, Jude 1:3, etc.
To go astray means to wander: to ‘cast off their knowledge of God to go their own course.’

David wrote Psalm 58 and refers to God as Elohim.
This is a sermon psalm (maschil) public instruction around injustice (David fleeing Saul). He speaks of judgment (not judicial judgement) vengeance, the man (adult) trapped in the rebellion of his own making. David is also lamenting and instructing on the unjustness in rebellious men, the corrupt, crushing judges and rulers, the corruption of justice by them against his people.
He teaches some day justice will come and rejoices in God’s ability to exact vengeance, for it is His to mete out.
Taken from Exploring Psalms: An Expository Commentary By John Phillips

Don’t take my word, please. Study for yourself, test, check, reference, use commentaries, concordances, do your own studying.

I don’t know when you reached your age of recognition, your age of accountability.
That is when you began to put away childhood (your situation is tragic and complex as your key developmental years were cruelly twisted and stolen from you) and began to see yourself as an individual in the human family, as a moral and spiritual being responsible for and capable of choice.

Some KJV onlyism sees that verse in Psalm 58 as meaning we are the seed of Satan.

Some KJV onlys deny the Trinity.
Some KJV onlys would say I am not saved, I am a heretic for accepting other translations of scripture.
Textual criticism is not acceptable, hence inerrancy, literalism and authoritarianism rules.
2 Tim 3:16 is used as justification of KJV onlyism.

I suggest http://www.sacc-ct.org.za/corppun.html. Go to the root of of these words you used above: chastisement, correction, discipline, foolishness.

I also recommend Flogging for God which looks at the pedagogy of religious violence toward our children.

All children do not need to be hit. How incredibly ungodly. Every child is unique.
I have nieces and nephews who would not benefit from a hand, a rod, or corporal punishment. I have had to address bad and harmful behavior and sinful attitude and I can assure you, getting physical with the kids was not necessary at any stage of their development.

You did not deserve to be hurt and abused. How different it would have been if you had grown up with people who knew that, who honoured you as God does. Your abuse was not your fault.

I have seen parents come into this thread who have repudiated The Pearls heresy.
I suspect to do so would have been very difficult and initially quite fearful, and no doubt costly for them emotionally, socially and spiritually.

I will say this quickly, we probably differ on literal and infallible, but this is more important:

I am so so sorry, you did not deserve to be hurt.
You did not deserve to be hurt.