Comments on: Joel’s Army: The Call, The Cry

By: Mark Byron

Mark Byron — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 17:46:36 +0000

We can’t ask Wimber what he intended on that one, since he’s passed on. I’m reading a spiritual response from God a la Ananias and Sapphira rather than physical retaliation from believers. Remember that this is Mr. Signs and Wonders, so not all actions would be expected to be in the natural.

I’m also not sure what is in the ellipses; I see that quote used in a lot of the anti-Joel’s Army write ups, but no one seems to reference a verifiable source, so I can’t tell what was left out.

However, I hung my hat at a number of Vineyards over the years, and didn’t get a militant feeling. The two Vineyards in the metro Lexington area aren’t my cup of tea (one’s too Bentleyesque and one’s too post-modern, so I’m a Baptist for now) but none of the six Vineyards I’ve taken in multiple services at had a hint of actual militia activity or folks ready to take up arms. If anything, Vineyards tend to be apolitical.

That’s not to say that a lot of the other charismatic churches couldn’t go off the deep end. I’ve seen a few where I could envision a charismatic militia forming if a leadership team went over the edge.

By: Bene D

Bene D — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 01:01:53 +0000

“Those in this army will have His kind of power. … Anyone who wants to harm them must die.” John Wimber

Not exactly metaphor Mark.
The 1st Airborne will be over at Kenneth Copeland’s spread, he’s got the landing strip.:^)

I can’t joke about the harm Bentley and his apostle friends have done, will do.

The Military Freedom Foundation would question how much ’spiritual warfare’ being shoved down military personnel’s throats is metaphor or rhetoric.

You and I had grounded, emotionally mature Christians in our lives.

We didn’t go to Jesus Camp.

By: Mark Byron

Mark Byron — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 19:37:16 +0000

Interesting piece. The Southern Poverty Law Center made its name keeping tabs on and successfully suing the KKK and continues to keep tabs on various militant right wing groups, typically with a white-supremacist overtone.

The rhetoric of some of these Bentleyesque groups sound to the untrained ear a lot like the rhetoric out of some of the white-supremacist religious groups like Christian Identity that SPLC covers.

However, the vast majority of military imagery, including the John Wimber quote at the end of the piece, is of spiritual warfare, not of actual guns and missiles combat. For instance, Paul talks of the “whole armor of God” in Ephesians 6, but I don’t have actual shields and swords in my possession.

As far as actually turning “Joel’s Army” into an actual underground militia, I don’t see it happening. Some of the harder cases (Joyner, for instance) do talk about real military battles in the end times, but
I don’t see the Morningstar 1st Airborne quite yet; if it was starting, I’d be first in line to send in the National Guard to break it up.

Right now, it’s the anti-immigration groups that are more of a threat than some Pentecostals using juiced up metaphors, at least here in the US.