Well, sort of. Yes, he re-married last week, he has his new trophy wife Jessa, who unlike the new ex Mrs. Bentley hasn’t had bone cancer and 3 kids.
When news of the marriage leaked on the weekend, his step-mom put her two cents worth in, now Rick Joyner has made his grand announcement. (see post below also)
It appears Darcia Bentley’s ’newsflash’ of yesterday at Sound of Fire Productions has been taken down and Rick Joyner’s ’special bulletin’ has been put in it’s place. Mrs. Bentley’s ‘newsflash1′ can be found in Google cache and posted in full under – more in the post below, there is a long history of Bentley sites being scrubbed.
Bentley’s ‘restoration’ has begun with a newsflash from step mom and special bulletin from Joyner. What Todd had to say was sandwiched between his apostle handler Joyner’s copious words. Here is what the MorningStar pr team helped Todd Bentley put together.
Published 1 year ago 226 commentsIt has been a long while since I have spoken publicly and openly. I am sorry for the hurt and confusion that my decisions have caused the body of Christ. It has been a true season of brokenness, hiddenness, and a long process of grieving.
As many of you now know, my previous marriage has endured years of unresolved conflicts. I apologize that it has ended in divorce, and I take full responsibility for my part for the ending of the marriage. I realize that my silence and decisions have caused many of you to feel hurt, confused, and offended. The reason for the silence was for my need of healing, creating a restoration process under a team of qualified leaders, much needed rest after the Lakeland Outpouring, repentance, and the divorce process.
I have now relocated to Fort Mill, South Carolina and have entered into my restoration and healing process under Rick Joyner, Jack Deere, and Bill Johnson. I am confident of this one thing—that God is faithful to His promise and my hope is to be fully restored, strengthened, healed, and to learn from all the mistakes I have made along the way.
Thank you friends and partners for your continued prayers, encouragement, and love. I am committed to the work of the Holy Spirit and confident that the good men around me will help me be restored first as a man, as a husband, and ultimately to fulfill God’s call on my life.
226 Responses to “Todd Bentley remarries, apologizes”
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See: Rick Joyner’s comments on Todd Bentley’s marriage
Oh man.
I hope he sees his kids soon.
His remarriage is not accepted by God. He is living in adultery!
Check out what God has to say about divorce and remarriage.
“A husband must not divorce his wife.”
1 Corinthians 7:11
because;
“The Lord was witness to the covenant made at your marriage.” Malachi 2:14
which binds a man to his wife for life;
“A wife is married to her husband as long as he lives.”
1 Corinthians 7:39
and because;
“Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery.”
Luke 16:18
Therefore, if a man divorces his wife and marries another he becomes an adulterer;
“Thou shall not commit adultery.”
Exodus 20:14
“The man who commits adultery is an utter fool, for he destroys his own soul.”
Proverbs 6:32
“Adulterers…will not inherit the Kingdom of God.”
1 Corinthians 6:9
A divorce does not free a man from his wife because;
“A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives.”
1 Corinthians 7:39
Man invented no fault divorce. Divorce does not dissolve a marriage covenant. Jesus calls remarriage adultery. No legitimate marriage is ever called adultery.
What God Has Joined Together, Let No Man Separate!
This Is A Command From Jesus Christ
Adultery is identified in every passage where the remarriage of divorced persons is mentioned.
Divorce and remarriage is so readily accepted today that we have lost sight of God’s view almost completely. The teaching of the Word of God on this issue must be vigorously presented so that young people will not divorce and enter into adulterous remarriages.
Many people today are trying to justify divorce and remarriage, when the Bible says that marriage is binding “as long as both shall live,” and that two persons joined in marriage are “one flesh.”
It is our conviction that Christians must work hard at trying to reconcile divorced partners. We must make them understand that all relationships after a divorce are viewed as adultery by God and must be ended.
________________________________________
Now is the time for the church to speak up on what the Bible has to say about divorce and remarriage before another generation is deceived.
The Bible clearly says that whenever remarriage occurs, adultery results, and that is pretty clear to every Bible reader.
In Romans 7:2 we are clearly told why the remarriage of divorced persons is adultery. It is adultery because the first marriage is still binding. “A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives.” Since she is bound to him as long as he lives, all other relationships are adultery. This is easy to understand.
People talk in our day about “ending” marriages.
But that is impossible to do, you can’t do it.
It is not divorce, but death, that ends marriages. The only thing that divorce does is, make a new relationship adultery and while remarriage is legal in the eyes of the government, it is illegal to God. As long as a former mate is living, the original marriage union is secure in God’s eyes–and that is the State of Marriage.
When one of the married partners separates from the other and joins himself to someone else, that does not free him from the state of marriage that he is in with his first wife, but instead, it enters him into a state of adultery. The truth about divorce and remarriage is clear. The adulterous relationship resulting from a second marriage is sinful and needs to end.
Mark 10:5-9 indicates that marriage is a divine institution which was ordained by God from the beginning, and it is not particularly a Christian institution. Mark 10:6-9 says, “But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; and they two shall be one flesh…what therefore God hath joined together, let not men put asunder.” Jesus says that marriage is binding in all cases, and it was that way from the beginning, not just since the beginning of the Christian era.
The marriage vows are binding upon all, whether Christian or not.
Proverbs 28:13 makes it clear that God wants all of us to turn from sinful living. John the Baptist lost his head defending this principle. Mark 6:17-18 tells how John the Baptist had said that it was not lawful for Herod to have his brother’s wife after a divorce. Herodias, was legally divorced by Roman law, and newly married to Herod Antipas, but John still said to Herod, “It is not lawful for you to have her.” after they were remarried.
Brothers and Sisters, don’t go shopping around for someone to justify what Jesus Christ clearly and repeatedly condemned. God has not changed His law to allow a man who has stolen another man’s wife to keep her. Nor has He changed His law to allow a woman who has seduced a husband away from his wife and children to keep someone else’s husband. Nor will He join two people in a God condemned wedding ceremony.
Marriage is binding on all–whether Christian or non-Christian. It is important to notice that neither the Gospel of Mark, nor the Gospel of John recognized Herod’s second marriage as valid. In Mark 6:17 it describes the woman as “his brother Philip’s wife,” after a divorce. He called her Phillip’s wife after she was divorced. That is whose wife she was, even though Herod had married her. The divorce did not end the marriage. She did not become Herod’s wife upon remarriage. Herod was living with her in adultery; she was still Philip’s wife. God does not recognize the second marriage because the first marriage is binding until death. That is an eternal principle settled in the eternal counsels of God.
Marriage is not just a Christian institution; it is a broad general institution, and therefore it is binding whether you were married when you were 18 by a judge, or united in marriage at age 25 in a typical church wedding ceremony. From God’s point of view, all marriages are binding, and can be broken only by death. Divorce does not dissolve the “bond” of marriage. If it did, there would be no adultery in a remarriage. The Bible condemns remarriage after a divorce.
Every faithful disciple of Christ needs to speak God’s truth about marriage and show people, according to Scripture, that they are bound to their first spouse as long as they live.
Oh how we must help them see the truth and keep them out of adultery, because…
Adulterers do not inherit the Kingdom of God.
For further information, check out these sites;
http://www.marriagedivorce.com
http://www.holymatrimony.org
http://www.catz.net
http://www.cpr-ministries.org
Tdouble:
Yeah.
Thanks Rose, while his divorce is disgraceful he is doing what he was taught, experienced and knows. He is not the first NAR approved-one who has done this, nor will he be the last. What is worse is trying to convince others that’s okay. It’s worse that he isn’t looking to just harm himself and his family but as many as possible.
You might enjoy Deception Bytes – the writer spent a lot of years at MorningStar before being able to walk away and begin healing and living.
Jessa – when things start to fall apart please understand that it is not the devil – it is the nature of the business – do you think Joyner is interested in ‘restoring’ your husband?
It’s about the money. In the end he won’t care about you, the business and your contribution is all that matters.
Toxic faith has destroyed many. Please don’t let that happen to you. He is just a man, a very disturbed individual who needs psychiatric help. He is not the knight in shining armor you think he is.
Don’t let it destroy your relationship with God, in the end it is all that matters. Sadly you are in for a rough ride. Just remember – in the dark night of the soul bright shines the river of God.
She is indeed in for a rough ride.
NAR ‘commissioned’ Bentley knowing they could focus our (we, the public’s) attention on his adultery and manipulate the message: keeping people from looking at the real issue – the terrible spiritual deception and spiritual death, the lies, the false, the counterfeit. They’d have us believe they can ‘fix’ Jessa, Shonnah and Todd to minimize the damage to themselves.
And when they are done with him and he doesn’t toe their line, they will toss him and Jessa away with the same spirit and attitude Todd tossed his wife and kids for the trophy wife.
Anything to keep themselves in business deceiving others.
Yep. Jessa is in for a rough ride.
Good comments, but the NO DIVORCE AND REMARRIAGE position espoused by Rose is false.
Christ PLAINLY TAUGHT that Divorce and remarriage is adultery EXCEPT FOR FORNICATION in Matt 5 and 19. The exception is clear.
Also, Rom 7 is misunderstood, for the “law” not only DID NOT keep people bound to each other until one died, but provided provision for divorce for many reasons-Deut 24:1-4. Paul was speaking idealistically to make a point.
In 1Cor. 7:26, Paul says that if you have been loosed from a wife, do not seek one. But IF YOU DO, you have not sinned.
Now this is in the context of a spouse abandoning the other and refusing to return. Paul says the believer is not in bondage to such cases.
So the point IS that Bentley is every bit as guilty as he is protrayed here. His so-called re-marriage IS ADULTERY, and the NAR group has many problems doctrinally and practically. Matthew 7:21-24 should be THE PASSAGE for all these people to meditate upon, for they will find it fulfilled in themselves unless they repent.
I’m going to be honest here AP, every once in awhile I get a comment such as Roses. I don’t know if there are start and stop words for the Roses in life, I don’t know if it’s anger, anxiety, fear, zeal or OCD.I don’t know why people dump bible verses without thought and don’t engage people.
I notice some do it to plug their blogs or sites or ministries, (it’s bad over at Charisma right now, you’ll trip over the comment self publishing plugs) and others don’t seem to have an ‘off’ switch.
Thanks for your clarity, I appreciate it.
I guess this means Todd’s going to be able to get that coveted green card and stay in the USA permanently, now that he’s married to a US citizen.
Don’t tell me he didn’t have that in the back of his head during all of this.
A covenant with adultery.
This is addressing the video made public by Rick Joyner and the comments made regarding Todd Bently. I am writing in protest openly as the comments were made openly and need to be addressed for the sanctity of marriage. To the reader – please help me to get this email to Rick Joyner, and please take a stand against this.
Dear Rick,
You are so adamant about Galatians 6:1? How about Mark 10 which CLEARLY says, “When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this. He answered, “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her.” Mark 10:10. You were ambiguous about that to Todd? Okay, so how about not being ambiguous about that anymore. Todd’s second “marriage” is a covenant that goes DIRECTLY against the Word of God. It is like a man marrying another man – yes, it is a covenant, but a covenant made with perversion going directly against God’s Word – AND MUST BE BROKEN if repentance and restoration are to occur. When a homosexual man gets restored – he is not to honor his covenant with the his gay lover, and for Todd to be restored, it means he needs to END his adultery with this woman. Today is a sad day for marriage. Consider the harm you have just done, the covenant breaking message you are promoting, and please consider this simple principle as explained in this email.
You say in your video that you want a “positive response”? Then start to consider rebuke as positive – not those who are “for things” and tickle your ears.
In TRUE Love,
James
James:
Perhaps post your concerns at Sound of Fire Productions (Bentley parents site) and Charisma magazine which still has comments open to gauge public react. You might want to post at or email Joyner associate sites.
I have read others who have written Joyner, he has assistants who will respond to you – after all you are a potential donor – but does he impress you as a person who reads public response or cares what you think?
Michel at Deception Bytes is a walkway from MorningStar – reading Deception Bytes may give you some insight about getting your message through.
i think todd’s inability to submit to healing has become a disgrace . this is codependent behaviour . whats joyner thinking guy falls flat on his face sins disgraces the apolstolic prophetic . gets remarried this fast if body of christ doesn’t buy his tapes books support his ministry send a real message . Shame arnott doesn’t speak up about this but god will not be mocked he’ll undercover this
this is sad and disappointing.
Saying sorry after planning and executing a
marriage to a mistress, is as senseless and stupid
as building your house on sand, then saying
‘it’s all good’.
Do they really think people are that stupid?
(don’t answer that)
The ’sorry for the adultry, now give us $$$’ plea
is beyond belief.
Not Todd the Fraud, Jessa the Jezebel, or the ‘Joiner’
in their sins, is sorry one little bit. Crooks.
This just keeps getting worse and worse.
I fear what tragic end might be.
Interesting, reading Todd’s first statement in months. Somehow I did not see the words ‘I repent’ in all that mess.
Now Joyner Todd want ‘bailout money’ for Todd’s sin?
Lakeland=Spiritual Ponzi scheme – NAR=Spiritual Madoffs
yeh yeh so the preacher sinned with his mistress do ya think its never happened before and the other preachers sucking the life out of it look what happened to the bakers and jessica the jezebel and tammy faye(hmm another jessi) personally i think the laws should be changed to sue these guys fleecing sheep look at all the $$$$ people spent some was their life savings!!! coming from other countries but to them i say dont let your heart be troubled you belived in God hopefully not in Todd , i gleaned some good out of the meetings cuz i was looking for God i k new it was a “donkey” he was using and many more donkys will come but my sheep know my voice not a “bray’ in the wilderness. ps this is to todd and rick… remeber the foolish boys in pinoccio with the donkey ears ? they were very bad bad boys boys!
James, I think your comments are absolutely right, thanks for making them. I e mailed Rick Joyner with very similiar points myself- I had a message back from a ministry assistant saying that though Rick doesn’t have time to reply he is reading as many as possible and responding.(So that is correct Bene Diction, thank you for your article.)
I am really glad to see you highlight that clear scripture from Mark 10. There is no getting around it, and saying people are being judgmental is not good enough…I very much want to see Todd restored and delivered from deception, then rasied up and used mightily by God. He needs to repent and that means stop committing adultery and go back to his wife. If she wont have him, hey, be single-lots of us are!
Love and respect, Matthew.
Dear Bene Diction and AP,
The postion of no divorce and no remarriage is one held by alot of people who have made an intense study of this subject. One person you might know is Dr. John Piper. You might want to read his postion paper found at;
http://tiny.cc/aXoAJ
Another site which clearly searches the Bible on this subject is;
http://www.marriagedivorce.com
My words where not dumped without thought. I too have done an intense study of this subject and believe if you would also look into it and make an intense study you would also find out the truth. The websites left on this Blog were not left to plug anything, they were left so readers could do their own study.
Bene Diction and AP, I hope and pray that you will seriously consider studying this issue. Because clearly. alot of people out there are in marriages that the Lord considers to be adultery and Todd Bentley is one of them.
God Bless you as you search for the truth.
Dear Bene Diction and AP,
You might also like to read, Jesus’ Doctrine of Marriage;
http://www.marriagedivorce.com/keller.pdf
God Bless
Another excellent book that can be read online is “Have You Not Read?” by Pastor Casey Whitaker;
http://www.marriagedivorce.com/HaveYouNotRead.pdf
Hi Rose:
I don’t think anyone pausing at this post is going to disagree with you about divorce, you’re preaching to the choir.
Glad you felt free to speak, thank you.
There is a neat website called TinyURL where you can take a long link like Pipers and shorten it.
http://tiny.cc/aXoAJ
It’ll help keep your comments from going into the spam filter.
I’ve edited your link, I don’t need it bleeding into copy, okay?
I want to offer some encouragement on marriage, since Todd Benley’s failed marriage. I know a pastor who walks and talks God’s word. He has a beautiful wife from his youth. They have two beautiful grown daughters. During the birth of their second child she had trouble with the labor and became blind and disabled. This pastor has been a faithful husband, learned to tend too there children, supported his wife through rehab, but praises his wife all the time. They have been married a long time. They just became grandparent’s. Mr. Joyner and Mr. Bentley please take this as constructive criticism, but after watching this pastor I just described, I can’t listen to any restoration process that you guys are doing that will make what happened right. Can’t you guys see the truth for what it is? You don’t just toss marriage out the window because of problems. As Christians were are called to a higher standard, and even to suffer. The example we set for others will lead other to Jesus Christ or cause them to turn away. Mr. Bentley walked away, is now in restoration, and has a new wife. Where will this example lead others? Remember Job, though he lost all, he still had God. That all Todd Benley needs. That’s where true restroration starts. I’m tired of this mess. I just feel like saying “Get behind me Satan.” I’ve been married for 23 years. We have had good times, bad times, been to a Christian marriage councilor and still work had to keep it together. However, I will keep this marriage together till the day I die or unless my husband puts me away. But I know we both still love each other and I don’t see him putting me away. You see, marriage is tough and takes lots of work. We need to be the examples for those who fail. When I told a friend at church about how my husband and I keep our marriage going, she said, “You are a testimony.” She started asking question so it could help her too. Suffering is not fun, but it can bring us close to God and then he will restore us. Just like he did with Job. Marriage is good if done right. Hang in there with your wife or husband people. Go out of your way to love the one you are with. Don’t yell at each other, but love each other and be kind. Take time to hug and kiss the one you are with. Song of Songs is good reading. That’s a true example of what love is about. I’m praying that this stops soon. Enough is enough. With love, Susan
Have any of you got any idea what it is like to go through a marriage breakdown? Todd Bentley may have acted appalingly but flinging bible verses at the whole issue of divorce is a dangerous business.
I do not know where to start! To Todd, Randy,Paula, Joyce,Richard Roberts, Juanita,Clarence,and other Professional Celebrity Christian Whatevers(Paul and Jan, Creflo and the Copelands), Please tell me where the Word of God teaches that the fruit of Revival as well as the evidence of the outpouring of God”s Spirit is DIVORCE??? Just show us where the scripture teaches that the fruit of the Spirit is “Big Bucks “….Those are the only things that follow these people;except, of course, those with itching ears that obviously cannot read a Bible……..It is indeed a sad day when people disconnect their satellite dishes, not because of perveted porn, but because of perveted preaching. It is all just too sad…Pastor Jim Varnon, The Waterbrook Church, Tupelo,MS.
Todd never says he made the right choice by remarrying.
Its about where to go from now. Would you have him divorce again? That would only lead to more heart ache and rip more lives apart.
How can you judge this man? What about David? What about the man who had multiple wives and had a man killed so he could sleep with his wife? Todd is not absent of paying the consequences as David did, yet you act as if he is beyond the power of the cross.
Its people like you that prevent the spread of the gospel. Its people like you who sit on your religious high horse and act like none of you have sinned. First take the plank out of your eye.
I stand behind Todd in prayer and support for restoration in his life. I completely agree that what he has done is sin but there are many in the Bible who caused even more shame to God and yet He used them even after their failures.
Punishment is not God. He paid for that when He sent His son to die on a cross. It’s through his death and resurrection that we can go to Him no matter what the sin and receive healing and forgiveness.
I forgave Todd…have you? Then if you have there would be no account against him.
This isn’t about our forgiveness, you aren’t that shallow.
Jesus Christ died on the cross, you have accepted forgiveness and His love – you walk in obedience.
That’s what you say you believe, I didn’t say he was beyond the cross.
I say sociopaths should not be in ministry. Yet many are.
How do you keep from being deceived Liz?
Lying, necromancy, false prophecy, false angels, misrepresenting the gifts of the Holy Spirit, false teaching, theft, usery, false visions, mockery, pride, abuse are sin. They are not qualifiers for ministry.
You know the plumbline.
First of all I think we begin with forgiveness. I’m not a shallow person…I just think that when someone fails that is where we begin with them. Forgiveness gives opportunity to restore the standard in someones life.
Secondly whether you think Todd is a sociopath or not (I think that fact is based in whether or not you believe in moving in the supernatural gifts of the Spirit or you want to jar Him up in your box) He is a gift from God. Thousands have been born again in his meetings and many have been healed.
Thirdly my husband and I keep ourselves from being deceived by staying accountable to our church leadership and not living in the fear that risking in God will lead to eternal damnation. Todd did not stay in accountability. Our pastor was one of the ones on the phone and meeting in person giving Todd warnings against how hard he was pushing himself and his family.
Lastly I guess I am not so black and white in formulating what I think I know and don’t know about ministry. My parents were pastors for 17 years in a very small community in Northern California. I watched them love their people, often housing the homeless and feeding the hungry. Unfortunately they both died of cancer when I was 23 leaving me to raise my brother who was 14.
Now if I based my experiences on formulating an opinion on whether or not God heals I would have to say no. Yet I have found many people who have been healed of cancer. So what am I left to do but believe that God is a good and to believe what God’s word says. He heals the sick. Jesus gave us a mandate. I believe Todd, no matter how messed up his soul was, has this mandate as well. Heal the sick, cleanse the leopard, raise the dead. We are not victims waiting for Jesus to come back. He is coming back to a glorious church.
I understand that many on here do not share in my beliefs but it is good to be challenged and to be sharpened in what I believe. My hope is that maybe we all will question how we respond to someones failures.
It is good to be challenged and sharpened. It is good to read of your parents faithfulness. The church.
I’m sorry you had such great loss so young.
Thousands of people labouring in love, sacrifice and servanthood, not seeking what is not of the Kingdom.
I agree we have not been given a spirit of fear but of power and love and of a sound mind.
Knowing Todd Bentley’s history, I question sound mind.
I certainly question his doctrine.
We all have a mandate, a calling.
To assume because I say I’m called to heal for example because there are healings is not true.
Why would I ever allow anyone who babbles about angels, has false prophecies, etc lay hands on me?
I’m not a cessationist, but let’s not mix up gifting here.
I do question the claims.
I question the words out of his own mouth.
I question his documented history.
Thousands?
Because people want to believe doesn’t make it true.
Do I want to see more people deceived, harmed by ideology and ‘isms’? This is NAR we are talking about. I don’t believe you do either.
You and I forgiving Todd has to do with our relationship with God, it has nothing to do with his public shinanigans.
Watching Joyner’s latest restoration (and this is not his first) you are clear you believe God’s Word helps prevent deception. We check words and behavior against scripture, pray, think, be in fellowship. I have to weigh what is being said, what has been done, what plans are. We’d be fools to merely spiritualize.
Here is the MorningStar restoration message being marketed. Again.
Forgiveness=restoration to ministry.
What ministry, what is their plumbline?
I can’t go there Liz.
There are many who want to play judge and jury in matters concerning people of God. “He without sin cast the first stone. Todd was and still is a man of God”. Since he took a firm stance to confront evilness and demonstrated the power of God, satan and all his demonic forces retalitated to destroy him. No man or women is perfect in the Church or out of the Church. We all fall short in one area or another. Whatever happen we must pray for one another and love one another. The same manner in which we judge others will be the same manner by which we will judged. Let’s look at David in the Bible, he killed a man over his own wife and God forgave him. He was punished but he was forgiven. The body of Christ should be none tolerant of sin but should love individuals enough to pray for them and hopefully restore them. There are many grounds by which a person maybe divorce. But the holy than thou concepts usually causes Christians to detect small motes in others’ eyes while a large beam is in their own eyes. Finally Jesus discussed majoring in the minors and minoring in the majors. We are sinning when we judge and especially when we judge adultery. Two people makes a marriage and it takes two to end one. None of us are really qualified to discuss Todd and Shonnah’s affairs. We need to pray for others as well as pray for ourself. One day God will judge us. Surely we will want God to show us mercy. “Blessed are the merciful for they shall obtain mercy”.
E. Morris
By their fruit E, by their fruit…
Interesting all the differrent responses to the issues surrounding Todd Bentley. I can tell you about suffering and pain in a divorce. I grew up with it. I was beaten as a child, molested, and edured isolation because of divorce. Not one or two marriages, but 6 marriages that mother went through. Divorce is not right. That is the bottom line. For years I suffered. What did Jesus die from? I’ll help you with the answer. Read Psalm 22:14. “My life is poured out like water, and my bones are out of joint. My heart is like wax, melting within me.” Was it due to something medical? Was it because He could not breath hanging on that cross? I say it was because of a broken heart that he died so soon. Remember when blood and water came out of his side, after the spear was pulled out. Well, I think His heart melted with his body. Can any of us begin to imagine that kind of emotional pain, that makes a heart melt like wax. I’ve suffered, but he suffered more. My point is not to bring Todd Bentley or Mr. Joyner down. It’s to confront a bad situation. We are after all suppose to be one body. I’ve seen too much in my 52 years on this earth to ignore a wrong, and not face Lucifer with the sword of the Lord, which is His word, not ours. Like it or not as a Christian we are called to a higher standard, and that may mean endure life for better or worse. I love Job, because he spoke in anguish over his innocence. But lets all remember, that God had spoken to Job through a whirlwind. Whirlwinds have a very destrutive force. However, after God spoke Job was restored. I hope Todd Bentley gets restored by God, and not some wisdom created in man’s minds. True wisdom only comes from God. And fear of the Lord is the beginning wisdom. I have no right to throw stones at Mr. Bentley, but things are not adding up with this situation. One thing I know though, is I gotta keep swinging the sword of the Lord, that’s His word. That’s why it’s called a sword. Swords hurt when you strike someone with it. It’s part of a Christian’s armor. Mr. Bentley could come out and answer a lot of the concerns voiced out here. Why when the controversy started did he just go away? Nope, just does not add up. Face this situation for what it is , a mass of confusion. Not good for getting the message of God’s Love out. Mr. Bentley made the move he’s made, so I pray for all involved with him now. Bottom line, only God know the whole truth. I wonder what Jesus’ heart feels now. Can’t ever convince me to be a Todd Bentley convert under these circumstances. I’m starring this situation straight in the face and saying only in the name of Jesus can you talk to me! So, if God is not in it, Lucifer will just have to walk away.
Food for thought. David desired a relationship with God. Saul wanted the benefits of association with God. Understanding why David was a man after God’s own heart needs to begin with the two contrast. Question. Did Saul except the truth about himself, or did David? It’s not what either of these men did. It was all about the relationship with God. Yes, Todd Bentley is human, like us all. It’s a good human trait to forgive Todd Bentley, but it does not excuse the sin, in any of us. David paid a very high price for his adultry and murder. None of us knows Mr. Bentley or Mr. Joyner’s hearts. However, I’m not hungry enough to eat off the fruits they are putting out there for souls now. Even all our good human traits are as filthy rags. It’s not wrong to desire to be pure and forgive. That’s good. Just keep a focus on God’s ever seeing eyes. Know that he numbers the hairs on our heads. Can we fathom that? God can out do any forgiving we can do. Just be careful when following too close without knowing the whole facts, in this situation.
With love,
Susan
Concerning the restoration of Todd Bentley, Mr. Joyner is using Galatians 6:1-5. What is the Christian brother to do when he encounters an erring, sinful brother? Now our text say , ” restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness.” Ok, we all agree Mr. Bentley needs restoring. The question is not on the reality of sin, but rather what are we to do when our brother sins? Well, at the heart of the matter, sin is a crack in the wall of holiness and purity. So, without help restoring our brother, back to his prior state, he will be stamped null and void in his usefulness and service to God. This is the penalty for the life of the believer. However, Mr. Joyner left out lots and lots of verses in our Holy Bible about divorce. Wonder why? There is a lot of reasons I can think of at this moment. The word “restore” means to mend or repair that which was broken. I wonder why the ex Mrs. Bentley is so quite. Does she need restoring, along with the kids. I wonder. Mr. Joyner wants to restore with “gentleness”. So, he can not be judgmental of Mr. Bentley. I have a question. What are these two men teaching us all on christian restoration? I believe, as a christian we all want to see the good come out of this, but these guys have me questioning their motives at present. Is this really about bearing burdens for restoration or money?
Liz
As a child of God, what I have learned here from Todd is that; it is okay to commit adultery, divorce and remarry. So, when and if we did that, and in order to be restored, we all can go to Rick Joyner and his gang!
Wow, what a new teaching for new believers to follow!
Bene Diction
I agree with you Bene. I believe God will not allow stumbling blocks to stand for HIM. Having said this, surely our God is also merciful for He takes no pleasure in the death of any evil man. Only God knows the heart of Todd and the rest of them. And I sincerely think Todd should step down from preaching as he does not practise what he preached. He has set a very bad example. I cannot believe a man who cannot stand up to the words of God and men (claimed to walk with God) who compromises with the word of God!
My heart goes out to all Christians, may our hearts be not tainted with such testimony and may we continue to pray for them. Only God can do wonders!
We, as believers at this point are not called to stand in judgement. Todd already is surrounded by the necessary Godly people who will speak truth into his life.
Look at all that David had done in his lifetime including murder of a husband in order to commit adultery. He certainly was not a saint within the world. He did, however, have a truly repentant heart – a man after God’s own heart!
This has been tragic all around and on all sides! Did you think that Todd was perfect? He was merely a willing vessel to be used of God. He is also human and just as susceptible as the rest of us to be torn apart by the enemy if we veer off His chosen path even so slightly.
Yes, Todd’s actions were not those of God’s will for sure and he held a certain responsibility for the body of Christ in his position and annointing. He also holds an accountability that is between himself and God in Heaven.
With that said, I pray for you Todd and your family on both sides now. May your heart, mind and soul be fully restored as well as that of your now ex-wife and your new wife.
He who is without sin, cast the 1st stone.
“Here Here” Jade. If I may add, these guy are incorrigible!
Disgusting.
Candice,
Who is really judging Todd Bentley? The way it looks to me, is that Mr. Joyner accepted Todd on MorningStar Ministries behalf. Mr. Joyner has allowed this door to open, and now this is the end result. Anyone with a conscious, will now questions Mr. Joyner and Mr. Bentley’s motives, and all involved.
Pesonally, I can’t see the comparison between King David and Todd Bentley. Saul was replaced by David, because Saul desired the benefits of a relationship with God. David desired God , not what the public thought of him.
Your right, Todd Bentley is not perfect. None of us are, or Jesus would not have died for the least of us. However, as a christian, when we see a wrong being done, that can effect the pure word of God, we should stand up and fight for the purity of the word.
So, I pose a question: Is Jessa Bentley married to Todd Bentley in God’s eyes or our eyes? Obviously, concerning this restoration process, MorningStar has already attempted to answer this particular question for all us christians, as if we did not have a consious thought. No, it just is not that easy to figure out.
When we lay our prayers on the alter of God, as a christian, we need to check our own hearts. Are they in line with God’s will? Could it be that when we pray, that our hearts are so crushed over something like this, that we don’t know what to pray for? Do you ever feel God’s eyes look right through you, when you try to pray the right way about this situation? Nope, it just is not easy. But, thank you Jesus that you are forever interceding on our behalves. Yes, Jesus will have the last word on this subject.
Hi,
I think the Bible is clear about divorce, Paul also talks about different creed and the possibility of separation in this case, but notice he doesnt say anything about remarrying again. Also Jesus say divorce is acceptable in case of adultery (because o the hardness of the heart). But he also doesnt mention anything about remarrying. Anyways i think its wrong what he did, but its not up to me to judge him, but to God. Also im sick of people judging Lakeland revival. I think its people like that that steal our child like faith. I do believe it was a move of God and that many people were touched. David was a man of God but he still fell. Lets stop putting man on pedestals and realize anyone can fall. Also men in ministry are more susceptible to attacks. Question is how do they handle it. Jimmy Swaggart handled it right in my opinion, he repented and repented live in front of his church. Anyways God knows everything and to Him be the Glory. Peace out
here’s some truth from behind the scenes in Abbotsford. Jessa first of all was an intern in the fall 08 cycle. She never applied for it Todd invited her into the internship. Even after a board member severly opposed it. Later Todd invited her and another intern to live in his house during the internship, and after the internship as a live in nanny.
At the same time the Bellingham, Washington church was being established so fresh fire could get a legal foot hold in America. This is evident by the lack and the sheer refusal to work with the local churches. It was just for the papers not the church.
In January 2009 2 members of the board confronted Todd about Jessa, and that it was wrong and they couldn’t stand by him about it. They where “relieved” of their position for doing so. This shouldn’t be surprising as another member of FFM was face with the same threat, after he caught Todd with another woman in England (this is what the dark night of the soul was actually about), the FFM member was forced to either work for FFM outside of North America or be fired. Jessa is woman number 4 that Todd has cheated on Shonnah with.
Todd isn’t 100% to blame just 80% the rest of the blame falls on those board members and pastors that refused to confront Todd on his infidelities. One in particular had the mind set that if Todd does it, it’s okay even if it isn’t for others. Others refused to confront because they didn’t want to loose their jobs (like many have over the years)
Even in Lakeland which I personally think was a two edged work of God, it was a blessing to the locals who have prayed for God to move. And the other edge was a judgement on Todd, in total over the top Todd style. During the highet of revival there was excessive drinking, slasher flicks, and other things I wont get into now with Todd and his inner circle (yes men). There was infighting with the leaders on stage, and the interns where just slaves with ministry badges. Or the fact that all the money collected for the orphans and for sudan never made it to them, it was instead used to pay for the buildings/land for the revival.
Even after Lakeland fell apart, and the news finally became public, Todd never returned home to Abbotsford. He remained in America (illegally) in California, then a breif stop in Reno for their quickey divorce rules. Then it was off to Rick Joyner and his marriage with Jessa
These words are not made up, this is a summary of many conversations I have had with former FFM employees, board members and former interns. I just can’t stand by and see Todd get away with this for a fourth time. A man who has turned his back on his wife and children once again. yet will be received by the masses as THE man of God.
Todd Bentley & The End-Times Apostasy
The presentation found on the website listed takes a critical, in-depth look at one of the most controversial and influential evangelists in the country – Todd Bentley. Following an “unhealthy relationship on an emotional level” with a female member of his staff, he was forced to step away from public ministry. He is currently undergoing a “restoration process” under the leadership of Rick Joyner, Jack Deere, and Bill Johnson. Following this process, Todd will return to public ministry, perhaps as soon as the summer or fall of this year. Why is this important? Todd’s involvement in the Lakeland Revival meetings only lasted four months. However, in this time he managed to infect thousands (or perhaps millions) with his bizarre, un-Biblical teachings and manifestations branded as Christianity. Unless the general public recognizes that Todd Bentley is a dangerous, self-glorified peddler of all sorts of “weirdo doctrine”, he has enough charisma and influence to send countless people into a downward spiral that could well cost them their souls. It’s well worth your time to watch this presentation when you have an hour or two to spare. And be sure to share this link with your friends, family, and neighbors too. God bless you, and have a good day!
No one said divorce was righteous of Todd or that it was not a sin. There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus, and nothing can seperate Todd Bentley from the love of God.. not even powers or principalties in heavenly places. It’s unfortunate that Satan succeeded in trapping a guy who was certainly not ignorant of his devices, but that should serve to wake all of us up to the fact that if you’re a threat to his kingdom, Satan will work 24/7 to take you out! We have to put on the full armor of God daily and continue to crucify the flesh lest our enemy gain advantage. Todd Bentley will come out of this better than before, after all.. God never allows any battle to come on you that he hasn’t already made a provision for your victory in.
I think you would find this website interesting.
http://www.thenewsongcharlotte.blogspot.com
Blessings and Love,
David
should 2 people who were not meant to be stay together? what if they married too young? what if at the time it seemed like the right thing to do?? 10 years later, 2 different people…sure – one gets hurt b/c the other doesn’t feel the same. does the one being hurt really want to be with/or force the other to be with them when they know the feelings are not reciprocated??
i think this is a legitimate question. yes i believe the word is true. i also believe that t&j are not the first or the last to go through something like this. does God write them off? does he??
i love the Lord. am i a bad person b/c i married too young not knowing who i was or what i wanted at the age of 21, and then spending most of my 10 years married wanting so much more?? at my 10 year wedding anniversary i came to the realization that life is too. short. if i kept on going keeping things together for the sake of everyone but myself, i would be 43 and in the same predicament.
now i have met the man of my dreams – i am totally in love (2 years strong) – everyday i am attracted to him, excited about him…
is that wrong? doesn’t God want me to be happy? i love God, i know he loves me. am i going to hell for finally finding true love?? seriously?? someone pls. explain.
There is an excellent article about Todd Bentley in a publication that I will point you to in a moment. The article is on “Spiritual Deviations, Detoured by the Supernatural.” Let me give you a few quotes:
“Our souls should thirst for God (Psa. 42:2), and we should hunger for more of Christ (John 6:57). But Bentley implies through his testimony that instead of hungering for Christ, we should position ourselves in faith and then contend and hunger for supernatural experiences. Teachings and testimonies like this have a subtle effect of distracting unsuspecting believers from the genuine experience of Christ to hunger instead for experiences of the supernatural. The healthy teaching of the New Testament apostles always arouses a longing, an appetite, for Christ Himself. But “Supernatural’s” [a book by Bentley called The Reality of the Supernatural World] descriptions of garish encounters incite a voracious appetite for an experienced that is, in and of itself, an “anesthetic.” Bentley sums up: “I hope I have stretched your faith and that you press in for these experiences: (61).” [page 112-113]
“If not “the supernatural realm,” what then should the Christian seek for? Having found redemption in the Savior and having once for all settled the question of our eternal destiny, in what pursuit should we spend our days? The apostle Paul answers this question with utmost clarity in his Epistle to the Philippians. He gives us six marvelous expressions that should direct our seeking today: magnify Christ, live Christ, gain Christ, be found in Christ, know Christ, and pursue Christ (2:20-21; 3:8-10, 12).” [page 113]
“It is true that at times signs and wonders follow the Lord’s servants, but His servants should never follow signs and wonders. Instead, the Lord’s disciples should follow Christ and seek Him alone. If believers follow the misguided path encouraged in “Supernatural,” they will not only be disappointed; they will also be in danger of falling into the flesh. Whenever genuine, subjective experiences of Christ are replaced by a pursuit of sensations and marvels that appeal to the body’s senses, the flesh is not far away. Sadly, recent church history is replete with the record of “spiritual generals” who have proved this again and again. We should be governed instead by the healthy teaching of the New Testament apostles, which makes Christ the believer’s center and universe.” [page 113]
I would highly recommend you get this publication and read this article. Todd Bentley’s teachings are truly a deviation from the genuine experience of Christ Himself. The publication can be found at:
http://www.affcrit.com/archives/ac_09_01.html
and is called Affirmation & Critique. The issue you want is April 2009.
C:
God doesn’t write people off.
Yes, He loves you.
He is not capricious.
Go read Romans 8 again. And again.:^)
Go read Jesus’ priestly prayer in John.
I don’t know your circumstances and I can see you are wrestling with this, I’m sorry you are hurting.
It is not right for me to address you and your relationships as a total stranger.
I certainly can say this.
You aren’t Todd Bentley.
He cheated in his marriage long before Jessa came along.
You aren’t in ministry, leading people, lying to people.
The key issue with Bentley isn’t his philandering or divorce, it’s that he plans to go back into ministry and continue extra-biblical teaching and practice.
His divorce is a symptom of his deeper problems.
You already know abuse is not acceptable and what Jesus says.
Kids add another dimension, if there has been infidelity and trust is broken that’s another thing to be considered. As adults we strive for inter-dependence not co-dependence. These are tough issues.
God is not as interested in your happiness as His is in you becoming like Jesus. He is interested in joy.
You are His beloved with a calling, and He isn’t going to forsake you.
We mix happiness and joy up a lot, (I do!) that human failing doesn’t make us bad. I’m not headed to hell because I have sinned in relationships – God invested everything in helping us, not punishing.
Wants and needs aren’t always the same thing and no one online can or should tell you what that looks like.
Your safety is certainly a factor.
Comparing yourself with Bentley is crazy-making.
You aren’t Bentley, you have your life to walk through.
I think your questions are very legitimate and are best addressed with a few trusted people who know you and who have your spiritual, emotional, psychological and physical needs forefront.
I don’t know what honesty and openess is in your marriage or what is possible and I wouldn’t presume.
Is a qualified counsellor really optional at this stage of your life?
C, you know as well as I do there are people who stay when it’s permissible to leave and people who leave when they should have stayed.
Comparing yourself to Bentley isn’t a standard.
Am I a bad person is an interesting question, because for me reading what you wrote, it opens a door to other questions about how you see God and others.
Your questions opens doors to how you see yourself.
Questions which take time, care, mercy, support and safety.
All I can do is encourage you to see someone who specializes in marriage counselling. If that isn’t possible right now, what about considering professional counselling for yourself? Go under the mercy.
Wow. I don’t really know very much about the bible or anything but I’m pretty sure that if any of you actually care as much about these people as you are acting like you do….you should probably spend your time praying for them and doing some spiritual warfare instead of debating and gossiping about what the bible says or doesn’t say about what they did or didn’t do wrong.
I did a brief internet search to find out if Todd Bentley was ministering again and all I got was a major reminder of why I stopped going to church.
This is deeply disturbing. It is not the first time that ministry has fallen due to the lure of the notoriety, the excitement of travelling world wide, the deep hunger for man’s adoration, and the rags to riches prosperity that is gained from the giving of the saints.
We have seen this time and time again. The pattern does not waver, it is always lust of the flesh or lust of riches that brings down the mighty.
Todd is our brother and as such, we must come along side him and his true wife in prayer. We must also pray for Jessa as she too has been led captive in this matter.
Can he ever minister again? Not to married couples and not to singles who seek marriage, unless his first marriage is restored. Who does that leave? I am sure that once “fully restored” God will have a place for him. God does not throw us away simply because we have sinned.
Donna C,
If you don’t know much about the Bible, open it up and read it. There is a lot of real history in it. Like you would get in High School or a Junior College. The fall of Rome, rise and fall of great powers such as Egypt and Babylon, Israel and why it is a focal point as a country now. Oh, so much is really there. In addition, you’ll get a glimpse at a mighty God working in action for salvation to a lost human race. You can contrast biblical dates with great leaders such as Alexander the Great, King of Macedonia 336-323; a conqueror of Greek city-states and the Persian Empire. This is the real deal. All in the Bible. God’s written word for us, who choose to read and learn.
It’s not a fiction story. A lot has already been traced back in history. Once you open your mind and heart to the wonders, Jesus will amaze you over an over again.
Don’t think that because Todd is under a microscpe that Christians are out to debate & gossip about him. Just the contrary. Because christians know God’s word–the ones that read and study it, they do care about him.
However, you don’t want a person leading an army of christians who has gone against Gods word. Know why? He will lead all the army in the wrong direction. That’s not good for any battle. A christian does not want any soul lost, because after passing this life there is no return.
Check out this, and it’s public, not gossip. Todd has stated on a MorningStar Ministry video, that he will write a book about, you got it, Lakeland. Does anyone out there get a “why?” in your gut when you hear this? For what reason is this book? What deal did he cut?
Churches are there for all the right reason Donna C. Don’t let Satan’s distractions fool you into thinking, that its not a loving place to go. There is junk in everything in this life, even churches. But, in a true chucrh for Jesus Christ, you can rest assure He’s calling your name when you walk through His doors. Just be encouraged that when you need the real Jesus, He is right there! Just a breath away, “Jesus”.
This is to everyone but I feel the need to address C personally because well… I was there… Exactly in fact….
I’ll start off with this… As someone who has been through a breakdown of my marriage to the point of divorce I can relate to Mr. Bentley.
As someone who, ONLY by God’s grace and absolute divine intervention was able to reverse the divorce and have my marriage restored, I can not relate to Mr. Bentley.
What I do know is this. Lakeland was real, the healings were real. I was on the receiving end more than once of the healing, spiritually and physically. I know a man personally that was remarkably healed during Todd’s ministry.
God DOES use this man… He continues to use him in my life, and many others, as my past failings haunt me. I’ve been able to go to freshfireusa.com and see some of the TRUE and GOOD teachings on forgiveness, mercy and the cross. And just the simple fact that Jesus loves me.
Now, to C… I’ve been there, exactly as I said. However, by doing what you’ve done, you’ve put God in your own box. Told Him what He is and is not capable of.
If someone had told me a year ago that I would be passionately in love with my husband and respect him and absolutely adore him EVER, I would have laughed in their face and been appalled.
I too married too young, was completely miserable, etc… Got to a point that I thought, no way am I going to live my life this way. Got the divorce, found someone new who seemed perfect for me etc…
But God never quit observing that first marriage covenant. Though I’d broken it with Him and my husband.
God changed my heart. That’s simply all there is to it. He slowly over the course of a few months softened me, though I fought it all the way, and brought me to a point of repentance and restoration with my husband.
We’re married again now, got a judge who was gracious enough to reverse the whole thing so that it was though we never divorced.
I admire and love him so much now I didn’t think it was ever possible before… It wasn’t possible in my own strength. It took a God make-over.
As for Todd… My jury is in a hung decision on this… I think his repentance is sincere and who am I to judge anything beyond that?? Only God can judge the heart and quite honestly the situation… I would have loved to see him and Shonnah reconcile… That doesn’t appear to be the current path. I’m going to step back and let God be God though and see where He takes this.
All I can say is quitting being hypocritical, judgmental, Sadducees.
BD – thank you for taking the time to respond. I think you were very gracious through wisdom and understanding, and i totally appreciate your point of view, and do take it to heart.
Forgiven One – thank you for sharing your story with me about your marriage/reconcilliation – it’s actually mind-boggling to me!however, i am not open to reconcilliation – i am committed to the relationship i am in. i also appreciate your point of view immensely.
i am always open to hearing His Voice. i am in a baby-steps stage right now as far as my relationship with Him goes, but i am definately open.
Dear all I have seen comments here and it made me really think how the love has grown cold in the christian community, I have seen just judgement, judgement, judgement. People that have no authority to do that. Question is coming to my mind friends, sister, and brothers is grace sufficient enough by your understanding for Tod Bentley also. Yes the mistake was made, his marriage broken and then sin followed up by other that are sin but can we stop a bit and say let’s pray for that man, let’s see him restored and serving God again and let God use him how He GOD wants. Please pray better then just making judgemental comments and nothing encouraging.
For His kingdom
Pastor Skender Hoti
Republic of Kosova, Balkans
On June 20th 2009, I saw up coming events scheduled for GOD TV. One was of great interest to me. Todd Bentley was included in these events. Does this mean that restoration is completed?
Today I heard the most moving sermun in church this morning. How, our pastor’s wife lost her eyesight due to cancer, at the tender age of 25 years old. Pastor put a challenge out for the men to be men. To honor their vows. To be faithful to wives. To keep the oaths of their marriages. To honor their wives.
Pictures were shown of them when dating, then married, and as a family with children. Pastor has stayed true to his first love. Now, she has another disease, that keeps her homebound. But, one of the last pictures was of him and his wife. He was embracing her, as she is now, with a tender kiss.
He prayed about showing these pictures and talking so open about his life. But you had to be there to see what happened. Grown men crying, and going down to the alter to recommit their lives to honor their oaths and vows.
Pastor is such an example, of how I believe God wants us all to be commited to our spouses. “For better or for worse.”
I can’t judge Todd or Jessa Bentley. I just need to tell them from my heart, that I have a difficult time seeing how they could minister to anyone with the way things evolved around Lakeland.
Israel lead a nation astray because of broken vows. Those leaders on large platforms should know this.
Hi Susan:
Went over to GodTV to have a look see – didn’t find Bentley in the programming schedule or see any promos, would you be kind enough to provide a link and more information?
Thanks.
Rose,
Maybe you should spend as much time on forgiveness and the understanding that it is not your place to say what God does or does not think about a situation. God knows all and I am sure he knows what we do not know about thier particular situation. To say that becuase someone is divorce and remarried that they are lving in sin is moronic. You have appearently been thru some things in your life that would make you feel as though you need to cast judgement upon someone, well I am here to say that you will stand in front of God as will I and Mr. Todd Bentely. There are clrearly defined examples in the word where God has permitted divorce, but I imagine you wouldn’t be intrested in that.
Kenneth, who are you talking to?
Hello Bene D,
I hope the following will help you.
I saw it advertised on GOD TV. I have DIRECTV. I am in the Columbia, S.C. area. They stated several names of ministers for upcoming events, and Todd Bentley was one of them. They even showed his picture.
It caught my attention, and I began to wonder, when this would happen. GOD TV did not give any dates. Just events upcoming on the TV. Oh, it’s channel 365.
Maybe GOD TV should watch what they are advertising? I’m not trying to sound rude, but hey, it was on their channel.
Thank you Susan: Go to the blog header and hit blog, there is more news about his return
Rose comment # 3 was right on thank you for that comment.
ummmm….just a note about King David to everyone who keeps tossing his name out there with Todd’s. King David and Bathsheba’s marriage was valid. Why? She no longer had a LIVING spouse. Even though David is the one who indirectly had her husband killed to cover up his adultery, his marriage to Bathsheba that followed was not adultery because of this fact. And…as has been said already David paid a high price for this.
As far as I can tell, Shonna is still very much alive….so please don’t compare the two marriages.
todd is just as human as the next in the situation. i am surprised the marriage and FFM lasted as long as it did. i saw the man in california about three years ago and wondered when the tatoos and the thought he had that being away from the family for up to 10 months was cool enough. i heard the train coming. i see that many see him as a false prophet. i have yet to see what he said go down , except for his own business. he better know. i dont like the comment about trophy wife. thats cruel, and unGodly. it takes guts to make a move that will hurt, but if it means growth , i would take that then a painful move that doesnt grow.
Define growth Jim.
Biblical Christ centred growth.
Define growth for churches, what appropriate biblical discipline means for leaders.
Well Todd is just as human as the next in the situation but he isn’t a Christian but a son of hell, son of disobedience (Matthew 23:15, Ephesians 2:2, 5:6)
Todd Bentley was EXPOSED as a LIAR and a THIEF!!! During the Lakeland revival Todd also said that God told him to get 1,000 people to give $1,000 dollars. When people confronted Todd, Todd admitted that God did not say that. We had positive proof that Todd Bentley along with the leaders of the Revival Alliance was spiritually abusing everyone.
Jacob Prasch stated Bentley was ring master at a debacle of lunacy and false healing debunked on national TV orchestrated by the infamous Strader family, whom the District Attorney implicated in financial scandals defrauding elderly Christians of millions of dollars. While the Florida District Attorney publicly names Pastor Steve Strader as complicit in the swindling, his brother was sent to prison ror over 30 years as a professional gangster under American anti racketeering RICO statutes. Bob Jones was debunked as a sexual predator with vulnerable women while Paul Cain was publicly disclosed to be a drunken pervert with a life long history of alcoholism and homosexuality.
wow wow, please tell me that you guys are kidding in here. What qualifies you to judge the man. Are you people GOD? Do you people KNOW GOD’s HEART? I mean get real people. He is a brother in Christ, He fell in sin like we all did & do everyday.
Galatians 6:1-6
Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted. 2Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. 3If anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. 4Each one should test his own actions. Then he can take pride in himself, without comparing himself to somebody else, 5for each one should carry his own load.
6Anyone who receives instruction in the word must share all good things with his instructor.
Remove the plank in your own eye before you look at the plank in anothers.
Folks we are commanded to pray for our fallen brothers & sisters in a time of battle against the enemy. I am truely disgusted by what i’m seeing in here. I am truely saden by this site of disgrace & we call our selves CHRISTIANS (Christ Like). Who are we kidding?
It is so easy for us to find fault of others & pass judgement. The owner of this site needs to repent , as well as all of the others for flaming the fire.
I spoke my peace. God Bless.
Stephen:
Are you called to be a Berean?
Can you and I be deceived as followers of Jesus? What does the bible say? Yes, emphatically yes. From Jan Fletcher: Lying Spirits:
The scriptures have many references to how easily people are deceived
and many of those refer to believers.
False prophets and diviners
deceive (Jer. 29:8).
Many false prophets have gone out into the world to
deceive (1 John 4:1).
Friends deceive. (Obad. 1:7).
Spirits deceive with false doctrine (1 Tim. 4:1).
Pride deceives (Obad. 1:3, Jer. 49:16).
Many will come in Jesus’ name to deceive (Luke 21:8).
People who think they are wise by the standards of this age deceive themselves (1 Cor. 3:18).
People using fine-sounding arguments deceive (Col. 2:4).
False apostles deceive (2 Cor. 11:13).
Passions and pleasures deceive (Tit. 3:3).
Evil men and imposters deceive and are themselves deceived (2 Tim. 3:13).
People who listen to God’s word and do not do what it says are deceived (James 1:22).
False signs and lying wonders deceive (Mark 13:22, Rev. 13:14, 2 Thess. 2:9).
The Devil deceives (Gen. 3:13, Rev. 20:10).
Sin deceives (Romans 7:11).
Flattering lies deceive (Psa. 12:2, Romans 16:18).
Lastly, the human heart is deceitful above all else (Jer. 17:9).
How do we counter deceit?
we are commanded to pray for our fallen brothers & sisters
Stephen
Todd mighty be your fallen brother but he is not mine. Unrepented lawless liars, thieves, sorcerers, adulterers, false prophets, sons of hell, sons of disobedience are not part of God’s family nor mine!
Jesus said in Matthew
7:15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
7:16 “You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
7:17 “Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
7:18 “A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
7:19 “Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
7:20 “Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
7:22 “Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
7:23 “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
The truth is that not one of us know what is going on behind the scenes. If Jesus said “judge not lest you be judged” and “I come not to the world to condemn” then why, in a sense, are we judging and condemning? Come on folks………unless you are close to Todd and know him well enough to speak what you call “sound truth” into his life, then your words spoken on this site and countless other sites are in vain.
Be productive and begin to intercede for Todd, Shonna, Jessa and those kids. Believe for God’s very best for all of them and move on with your own lives. I am most certain that God isn’t finished refining your silver just yet! Take care….
It’s not about judging (condemning) T.B. as a person, it’s about discerning his fitfulness to minister to the church – what a sad, sad state of deception the church is in to accept a confused, mixed up person like this in the pulpit. To start with he has repented as sincerely as a thief who says sorry but refuses to return the stolen merchandise. In the midst of his “ministering” career, he went off on a “dark night of the soul” and returned covered all over with hellish tatoos; during what was considered by some to be a pinnacle moment in church history (Lakeland) he ministered literally drunk on booze and had an adulterous affair and subsequently divorced his wife to marry his mistress – and all this is even without going into his theology, which actually involves “knowing the deep things of Satan” – you consider such a person qualified in morals and character to be a minister of the gospel, the holy word of a holy God, and you want to sit at his feet and learn and be transformed by the word he preaches? Your children too? Wake up church!!!! May God have mercy and open your blind, blind eyes…
I happened upon your site today. All I can say is… get over this Todd Bentley garbage and move on towards the high calling. You should be ashamed of dwelling on this guy and his shortcomings. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God… PERIOD!
You picked an odd week to attempt provokation there GMAN.
Shortcomings?? Adultery and divorce and re-marriage to the adulteress, in a minister of the gospel especially, are shortcomings?? Only to a church who doesn’t know their God or His word. Yes, we all sin and fall short of the glory of God until…we repent of our sin and receive Christ as Lord and Savior. I’m repeating myself, but it’s not about this guy at all, it’s about all those people he’s going to lead astray to miss their high callings if he succeeds in a “comeback” to ministry. It’s perplexing to me that any child of God would find that boring or not worth pursuing.
I am most certain that God isn’t finished refining your silver just yet! Take care….
Ephesians 5:5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
5:6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
5:7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.
5:8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light
5:9 (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth),
5:10 finding out what is acceptable to the Lord.
5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.
5:12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret.
5:13 But all things that are exposed are made manifest by the light, for whatever makes manifest is light.
JUDE 1:5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.
Chris are you spewing out the doctrine of once saved always saved for Todd?
Todd is not a believer but an unbeliever and he has demonstrated by his works including lies, adultery, sorcery and stealing! He has departed from the faith long time ago. And the demonic Lakeland revival exposed all the demonic ones who supported it with their lies and false prophecies and kundalini demon!
Lets not forget:
If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her, And give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel’s virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate…. But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father’s house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you. — Deuteronomy 22:13
It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. — 1 Corinthians 7:1-2
Rules for taking a second wife.
If he take him another wife…. — Exodus 21:10
Diviorce is not the unpardonable sin !!! Bible says ‘all sin can be forgiven.’
Matthew 12:31-32 (New International Version)
31 And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
Jesus pointed out this sin for a reason in scripture. I think he was showing us sinners just how important the Holy Spirit is in our existence.
The flesh is weak, but the spirit is strong. The gift of the Holy Spirit is very valuable, in defeating sin. Satan can feed us lie after lie, but the Holy Spirit will rebuke the lies.
Casting down our vain imaginations, are important. We can’t do it without the Holy Spirit. Vain imaginations can be the wrong thoughts of someone, a desire to be at the center of attention, or giving in to lustful desires. There are more too, like idols. Money can be an idol, power can be intoxicating, and the flesh can be quite hungry for so much more.
I think when we sin against the Holy Spirit, we loose our salvation.
We must have the Holy Spirit to bear witness for us. Without Holy Spirit we will be like the religous leaders during Jesus’ day.
Remember, as it was in Noah’s day, so will it be in the last days.
I think as mature christian’s we can see our way through the lies.
With love,
Susan
Dear Friends:
One thing I know at my middle age is Eternity is a long time. Seventy
or eighty years or ninty or even one hundred is a pathetically short compared to Eternity. So, you know, if you and I, each one, could keep that in the forefront of our brain that this is just a short dress rehearsal for the the big time of Eternity, you and I would never want to sin and never want to go against any of God’s teachings in His Manual for our lives, the Word of God. I, for one, am praying for Todd Bentley and many others in the same predicament, who are unable to see the ratio of the short time here and the long time there.
May God bless us each one as we beg and cry out for Wisdom, starting with the Fear of the Yahweh!
Therese, you might want to leave this in the Cry post with all the comments–including those by Krsykow. I think that you have misplaced it here…
Just a few thoughts:
“Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. ” Jesus said that.
Does God forgive sin? Yes
Is there any sin too great for him to forgive and heal? No
Is one sin greater in God’s sight than another? No
Is adultery a greater sin than judgmentalism? No
Does God refuse to forgive when a Christian falls and needs to be brought back to Him? No
No argument Grace, God’s forgiveness is greater than our sin.
This issue of adultery is an end result of lies, deception, abberant theology, extra-biblical beliefs, the misconceptions of the responsibiities of so called leaders.
The issue is does belief and behavior line up with the word of God?
The issue is the goals of Todd Bentley.
The issue is the fruit of his life.
The issue is about who he aligns himself with.
The issue is the failure of Christians to be Bereans.
The issue is studying to show yourself approved unto God, a workman who doe not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth.
As someone who needs forgiveness daily, His call is to go sin no more. And only His Grace, His healing, and Love can accomplish that in us.
I went to several of the revivals that were held in Lakelad and I could not believe that people actually aurgued with me that TODD was the #1 reason for them being there. How sad that was. If people was not there for JESUS and only him, that is the greatest Sin and Sadness in ALL this unnessessary Madness.
“He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her…” (JOhn 8:7)
1JN 3:6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
The issue is not throwing stones, the issue is trying to convince believers why this sadly mixed up guy is not appropriate for spiritual leadership in the Body of Christ.
“Be ye holy even as I am holy.” Does anybody honestly think the adjective “holy” in any way describes this fellow, or that he is even in pursuit of holiness?
Do we commit spiritual adultry or do we destroy ourselves, when we commit adultry against a spouse? Maybe there are those who just don’t care. Either way we loose.
Jesus said, “let he who without sin, cast the first stone”. This said, about a woman, who when caught in the act of adultry, who was brought to Jesus, by none other than the Pharisees (the seperated ones). They were called “hypocrites” by Jesus. They did not care to throw stones at the man. (Just my obsevation.)
Jesus was the only one there that was free of sin. Instead, he forgave her, and gave her a command, “sin no more”.
According to scripture, the Pharisees wanted to trap Jesus. That’s what lawyers do. However, Jesus had a knack for putting people under convition using thier own conscience.
The 7th commandment, “you shall not commit adultry.”
How do you define adultry?
With love,
Susan
I just viewed the 9/11/09 update on Todd Bentley, on the Morningstar website. It made me sad to watch Rick Joyner and Todd Bentley carry on the way they were. Todd made a comment, “I’m happy.”
Does this mean if I fall out of love with my husband, fall in love with the other man, then get married, I’ll be happy again? Oh, and leave the kids behind.
I’m not trying to find fault, I just see trouble. I’m a true product of two parents who divorced. Adultery was involved more than once. Years went by before I learned how to trust and have a normal relationship. I put marriage off, just because of trust issues.
No one will ever make be believe, that this relationship is biblical. Sure on the outside Joyner and Bentley put on a good show, but when someone tries to make you think they have a great relationship, they are not telling you the truth. You see, a good relationship takes a lot of work from both people, and love requires sacrifice.
Mr. Joyner and Mr. Bentley, a relationship built on the standards you guys are selling are, well wrong.
With love,
Susan
Two little words that speak volumes, “I’m happy.” Could be the most honest words he has ever spoken. The gospel according to Todd Bentley: “Don’t worry, be happy,” or maybe, “Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die”. Seems like his happiness justifies everything to his mind…scary to think about what he’s capable of for an encore with a philosophy like that. Guess he hasn’t stopped to consider that betrayal and lust do not make an enduring foundation for a happy marriage, nor is it likely to attract the blessing of a holy God. Rick Joyner’s reputation as a “prophet” must have taken a hit with his endorsement of T.B.’s ministry at Lakeland, so now he’s working overtime to try and make sure that everyone sees T.B.’s ministry is not a lost cause, in hopes that they’ll think Joyner isn’t a false prophet after all.
What about the feelings of the children in all of this?
The children get hurt the most
Children need a mother and a father
For those helpless children standing by and see their family destroyed like this is awful for them
This can leave them with a challenged outlook as to what are the definitions of a marriage and or maybe any relationship in general at all.
Parents with children separating is so common now
Todd, his ex and present wife are all Canadians
The separation took place in the United States
Canada changed the laws in 1968 making it easier for the marriage of divorcees
Now, we have multiple divorce rates
But the children suffer the most
This society with its’ highy divorce rates destroys children
I think i know what I’m talking about because I’m from a single parent family
PHIL 2:4 Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others.
I wrote an article a few years ago titled Sodom and Gomorrah USS or the Selfishness and Greed of Christians! It basically talked about how Christians are far more selfish and greedy than pagans and they look out only for their own interests not the interests of others! It’s a fact that I know many non-Christians who are far more loving and giving than many Christians!
So forget any form of sacrifice for the good of others by today’s Christians! It’s all about the benefit of the Christian and what do he or she care about the children or negative consequences of divorce? Nothing! And look how many prominent pastors have been divorced? Too many! And don’t get me started on the subject of Christian liars if there is such a thing!
As far as I am concerned divorce is not allowed by God who has stated clearly MAL 2:16 “For the LORD God of Israel says That He hates divorce, For it covers one’s garment with violence,” Says the LORD of hosts. “Therefore take heed to your spirit, That you do not deal treacherously.”
Yes, I agree, breaking a marriage covenant is devastating to children – why is it that people who theoretically would die for their kids, can’t stick it out in a less than happy marriage for their sakes? What the heck, life is fleeting anyhow especially when compared with eternity. Those poor children then so often have the pain of seeing parents remarry on top of the divorce! Satanic and evil is the only word I can think of to describe what that does to kids.
‘False’ Christians are worse than non-Christians in many ways – I’ve noticed that too! There is something about our faith that really makes people “kooky” when it’s mis-handled or when it becomes cultish – no wonder Jesus said He would prefer that we be cold or hot rather than lukewarm. Many have forgotten the holiness and fear of the Lord – and the lesson of handling the “ark” wrongly with bare hands, flesh in other words – there is a judgment that results.
2 Timothy 6:17 Command those who are rich in this present age not to be haughty, nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy. 6:18 Let them do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to give, willing to share, 6:19 storing up for themselves a good foundation for the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
Speaking of false Christians, the bible commands us to be rich in good works and not rich in material possessions!
It’s excruciating to watch what is happening to “Christianity” in these days – her walls are breached and the enemy is not just at the gate but marauding within. In fear and trembling I’m laying everything on the altar and asking the Lord to sift everything out that is not of Him, long-held cherished beliefs, doesn’t matter, just everything. We have Christians praying with Muslims, Christians accepting Catholicism, Christians uniting with Judaism – it’s not hard to see now how the antichrist agenda will play out both religiously and politically, the spiritual harlot riding the political beast. When the shepherds are taken out there is no one left to guard the sheep, and that is what we are seeing happening right before our eyes, one after the other, Todd Bentley, Dick Dewert, the Mainses, Melnichuks, etc, etc, ad nauseum.
What is the hook the enemy has in the church? Some great and powerful invincible weapon? No, only flesh. No one can hear the warnings any more even when it’s spelled out as clearly and kindly as possible – why not? Could it be that they have too much to lose and they’re not willing to lose it for His sake? But what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his own soul? What is the secret place from where in safety we see 1000 falling on my right and 10,000 falling on my left but it will not come near me? The secret place is none other than God’s secret weapon for dealing with flesh – the Cross! Only in that cross are we safe from the carnage that is going on all around. Oh, Lord and I’m very much preaching to myself as well, we must encourage one another to stay on that cross, it seems to get harder as time goes on and we must endure to the end now!
“Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage UP TO THE DAY Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.
It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. BUT THE DAY LOT LEFT SODOM, fire and sulphur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.
It will be just like this on THE DAY THE SON OF MAN IS REVEALED. ON THAT DAY no one who is on the roof of his house with his goods inside, should go down to get them. Likewise no one in the field should go back for anything. Remember Lot’s wife. Whoever tries to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it….” Luke 17:26-37
Does that not describe THIS DAY we are living in now?
1COR 10:21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the Lord’s table and of the table of demons.
MT 7:15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 7:16 “You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 7:17 “Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 7:18 “A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 7:19 “Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 7:20 “Therefore by their fruits you will know them. 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 7:22 “Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’7:23 “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
The church of the flesh produces the works of the flesh which are adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God ( Galatians 5:19-21)
And I thank God that Todd Bentley, the epitome of the Third Wave nuts and deceivers, was shown to the world to be an adulterer, drunkard, liar, thief, sorcerer, hypocrite, deceiver and full of dissensions, and heresies and all those who supported him at Lakeland, Florida were no better and were a partaker of his many sins!
And it should have surprised no one that this demonic revival was held in a church pastored by a Strader, Stephen, considering the fact that at Karl and Dan Strader destroyed the lives of many people through his Ponzi Crimes and that Rodney Howard Browne gave the Kundalini demon to many in 1993-1994 in Karl’s old church Carpenter’s Home Church which he stole from the members!
According to scriptures, especially 1 Corinthians 1, the idea of superiority of any Christian movement or church be it Third Wave, Rodney Howard Browne, or TACF is sheer nonsense, demonic and unscriptural for true Christians are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God-and righteousness and sanctification and redemption.
Jesus Christ alone is our savior, healer, deliverer, sanctifier, defender and everything that we need!
True fellowship is with all -who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours and not with the liars, thieves, perjurers, adulterers, false prophets and deceivers of TACF or any fool in the Third Wave!
The bible tells us to Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?-unless indeed you are disqualified. But I trust that you will know that we are not disqualified. Now I pray to God that you do no evil, not that we should appear approved, but that you should do what is honorable, though we may seem disqualified. For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth. 2 Corinthians 13:5-8
The word rep•ro•bate is defined as 1. A morally unprincipled person. 2. Theology. One who is predestined to damnation. –rep•ro•bate adj. 1. Morally unprincipled; shameless. 2. Theology. Rejected by God and without hope of salvation.
Securists would have us believe that God wrote our names in the Book of Life at the beginning of time and therefore if our name is in it, we are eternally secure . However Revelation 3:5 tells us, “He who overcomes shall thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life.”
Jesus is talking here of those that overcome not having their name erased from the Book of Life. The importance of being an overcomer is ignored by securists and by those who believe in “one saved, always saved” doctrine of demons!
yes the bible says its a sin,but guys we all fall short,we have to also understand teachers come under a stricter judgment.my point is this,todd knows what the word says,and his mentor are mighty men of god and he is being rebuked,and taught,so we can stone him or pray for him,yes we show a sinning brother his erring ways but its between him and god,and i do believe god can restore todd,we dont know the details of this marriage,so how can we judge,infidelity is one reason its ok and god told moses give them a certificate of the divorce cause they would not change there ways and repent,no god is not pleased but he is also in control and we can only pray for this situation,i want mercy for me when i mess up,i am sure you do to.satan would love to keep another one down,has christians we should want him to be stronger in the lord not say look at you shame on you,but get up todd get your life right repent get back on that stage,i forgive you cause i want forgivness to when i do something wrong,i have prayed for you from the beging,god bless you
God only allowed divorce, he never condoned it. Or to spell it out, to overlook it, excuse it or the like. According to God, we can’t pick and choose any sin, or we fall into sin. There is only one way to the father, through Jesus, the word in flesh.
Remember Jonah, when he spent 3 days in the belly of the whale. Jesus referenced his own destiny with this story, “so shall the son of man be three days and nights in the heart of the earth.” (Mt.12:40)
Now, Jonah ran from God, because he did not want to go say what God wanted him to say. Obviously, we know how it turned out. Jonah finally did what God wanted.
So, if your salvation depended on Todd’s and Jessa’s actions conerning divorce, would you stay silent? Don’t think about stone throwing, consider your own salvation.
If I were to keep silent on this issue I think, “how can this church be edified?” Then, if I speak about it I think, “I’ll get verbally rebuked.”
So, can any of us stand up for God’s word? It’s really right in front of us all. ” I hate divorce.” (Malachi 2:16). With this one verse we can get a huge glimse at God’s standards, not ours. In that same chapter is a warning to guard our hearts.
Remeber, the pupose of the book of Malachi was to confront the people with their own sins and restore their relationshiop with God.
Key word here is restore. Like it or not we christian’s need to keep a God fear. Just like when you fear your dad if you’ve done wrong. So we fear God for our sins, and ask Daddy God to please help, and tell him I’ve done something wrong and need help.
No amount of human restoration process can fix, what only the Holy Spirit has the power to do in each of us.
With love,
Susan
Yes as a teacher/preacher he does come under stricter judgment according to the word – so why are people wanting someone to return to ministry who has so many obvious personal and character problems that he hasn’t dealt with? Who doesn’t even live a Christian lifestyle? Boozing, womanizing and tattoos and piercings – is that the life of a blood-washed, mind transformed disciple of the Son of God who is seeking hard after holiness? What a reproach and mockery that brings to the name of Jesus Christ. Doesn’t the bible say there is no sacrifice for sins left for one who deliberately keeps on sinning? One year and a few rebukes and suddenly he’s all better from a lifetime of serious issues? (And that’s without even getting into his serious doctrinal issues!) Why isn’t he being being judged more strictly as the word says? Come on people, let’s be realistic!
todd knows what the word says,and his mentor are mighty men of god and he is being rebuked”
April – The idea that Todd Bentley is a man of god or his mentor are mighty men of God is not based in fact or truth but a joke!
Todd has demonstrated to the world that is not only a wolf in sheep’s clothing but an unrepented liar, adulterer, soundrel, thief, deceiver and sorcerer. And of course it doesn’t say much for his mentors who have no brains or discernment or they would have put Todd away from their midst. But birds of feather stick together in all kinds of weather?
Todd’s branch of Christianity does not seek for or promote maturity and discipleship – they act like a bunch of teenagers and even have their own “cool” non-biblical vocab – all of which is ok for teenagers, but far from ok for those in spiritual leadership or those adults who have been believers for a long time. I will have nothing any longer to do with any ‘ministers’ who throw around non-biblical phrases like, “higher levels”, “coming into alignment”, “soaking”, etc – these are actually false doctrines and absolute nonsense as far as the bible is concerned. I know this because I was once part of that whole thing. It’s as though they are trying to go back into the womb, relive their youth, and they mistakenly equate that with freedom – what it is in reality is just gross immaturity and they are leading the sheep to go backwards instead of forward.
Everyone in this group thinks they are supposed to become famous jet-setting ministers preaching to crowds – that’s their measure of a successful Christian, and they don’t know that for most, their faith is to be lived out in quiet humility, not performed on a stage to be seen by men. Jesus commended Mary, not Martha. We are not supposed to “do” anything for God – He is already the one who is working and doing, and what He asks of us is that we become emptied of self, cease and rest from our own works, and simply become caught up as empty vessels in what He is already doing. For most, this takes time, a long season of discipleship and crucifying of our flesh. Jesus never said or did anything that He didn’t see the Father doing. That’s the word of God and that’s what any preacher/teacher who is worthy of his call will be found preaching, not urging everyone to imitate Hollywood. Real Christianity will be found labouring in humble and quiet obscurity for the most part, not seeking glory for itself. The Father is not glorified the same way the world is, He is not some Hollywood wannabe craving the spotlights, nor should we be as we go on to maturity. His ways are not man’s ways, His thoughts are not like ours.
I read a few of the replies pertaining to Todd Bentley’s remarriage. As I was reading I could hear anger, hurt and bitterness in some of the replies.
I truly believe God do not like divorce, but what come to mind is he who is without sin cast the first stone. I think we as a body should stop tearing the people apart that are caught in sin openly. They know that their sin brings death. Our job is to restore not tear down. I think the body of Christ need to really study the love chapter in Corithians. If we could only love the way God tells us to love we would respond differently to our brothers and sisters taking a fall
Karen:
I know there are people who are anger, hurt and bitter, people got hurt.
Todd’s issues go far beyond divorce, and I think you’re also reading about the standards set for so called leaders.
I agree, the Body of Christ doesn’t need to tear brothers and sisters apart. I also believe we have a responsibility to care for the vulnerable parts of the body and to expose false teachers.
Our job is to restore, and 1 Corinthians is an excellent model for us.
Todd took more than a fall Karen – apostasy has to be exposed.
What Christians chose to do with that information is up to them.
Poor ethics, lack of moral values, poor behavior, lack of standards. Do some of the people responding to Todd and Jessa, throw stones at them? Does the act of adultery cause this kind of reaction in christians?
John 8:7 “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” Do we christians use this verse to shame other christians, for obvious reasons?
Of course, there is more to the story of stone throwing than just the one verse.
Are we christians being compared to the “hypocrites”? At the end of the stone throwing story, Jesus was not afraid to tell the adulteress woman, “Go and sin no more.” Jesus had no problem calling a sinner a sinner.
I’m not arguing on executing Todd or Jessa , like the stone throwing story. Like Jesus pointed out, we need to forgive Todd and Jessa, and all invloved. (Whoever they are, they know.) But, like Jesus, I think we need to continue pointing out the sin and say, “Go and sin no more.”
Maybe most of the people are not throwing stones, but reminding Todd and Jessa, “Go and sin no more.” After all, they have been on a mighty platform for christians to view, and a lot of new christians don’t need the wrong message out there.
With love,
Susan
LK 17:3 “Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.
For the record, Todd and Jessa are not Christians. True Christian repent when they are exposed and rebuked for their sins. Pastor bola olivia ogedengbe writes:
We are left astonished, dumbfounded, incredulous and altogether pained by the current turn of events, and worse, by the attitude of the ‘leaders’ who surround him. Since we received many visits to this blog to read our previous article on this scandal, we are duty bound to comment on the latest happenings. Rick Joyner is leading the restoration team which includes leaders who had vouched for Bentley’s good character in the past even as he was deceiving us all, and has posted a letter on his web page. We are informed that ‘Even so, they are married now and are resolved to make the most of their marriage, their lives, and to continue to serve the Lord in the best way that they can. ‘
My first reaction is have these leaders lost their minds, is Todd Bentley living on another planet, or are we all suffering from corporate insanity? Has anyone read the Bible lately? Does the fear of God mean anything to these people, do they care about the damage this has done to hundreds of thousands of believers worldwide and to the credibility of the church increasingly seen as moralistic and hypocritical? The assertion that they are married now is shocking and begs the question.
Their being married far from making it right has in my view made matters even worse and totally disqualified Todd Bentley from any reinstatement in ministry in the foreseeable future. It means there is no repentance. He has simply gone into outright rebellion by marrying his mistress. Even if his wife had chosen to divorce him, which does not seem to be the case, a more judicious, moral and righteous course of action would have been to break off this adulterous relationship and stay celibate before God Instead, he remarries quickly. And we are put before the fait accompli. Is there a recent translation of the New Testament that decrees that the solution to adultery is to quickly divorce the offended party and marry the mistress?
And this is meant to placate the church, soothe our ruffled feathers and make it all right? Shall we for the sake of one man, though gifted throw righteousness to the wind and send out the message that it is okay to consummate your sin, we will restore you? Pastors hold the average believer to a higher standard than these ‘men of God’ hold themselves to. When a man has behaved as disgracefully as this, some leaders still in the name of grace want to foist them on the body of Christ, it beggars belief! What of the millions of young men and women struggling to stay sane and sanctified? What message are we sending them when we pat leaders on the back who do such heinous things simply because they are gifted. Are those who teach not meant to be held to a higher standard?
…I’m reminded of Ezekiel 9:4 in this late hour: “….’Go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it….” That seems to suggest it’s not a good thing to be taking these sins too lightly.
1 John 1:5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.
1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
1:7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
Apostle John calls some people liars because they walk in darkness and do not practice the truth. He also states If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
So unrepentant ones like Todd and Jesse are not only liars but don’t have the truth and are not walking in the truth and should be exposed according to God’s word:
Ephesians 5:8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light
5:9 (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth),
5:10 finding out what is acceptable to the Lord.
5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.
5:12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret.
5:13 But all things that are exposed are made manifest by the light, for whatever makes manifest is light.
5:14 Therefore He says:
“Awake, you who sleep,
Arise from the dead,
And Christ will give you light.”
5:15 See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise,
5:16 redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
ROM 1:1 Paul, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated to the gospel of God
Titus 2:9 Exhort bondservants to be obedient to their own masters, to be well pleasing in all things, not answering back,
2:10 not pilfering, but showing all good fidelity, that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in all things.
2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,
2:12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age,
2:13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
2:14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.
2:15 Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you.
Pastors and Preachers are supposed to be bondservants of Jesus Christ? They are also commanded to be well pleasing in all things, not answering back, not pilfering, but showing all good fidelity?
But as I am pointed out many times pilfering is very common in not only family owned or run ministries, never mind living soberly righteously, and godly in the present age, but also by brand name preachers!
Well Todd Bentley has admitted he lied and stole $ 1 million dollar at the Lakeland revival but he hasn’t returned the money given accountability for it and all the other money he pilfered at Lakeland?
How come?
Because he is a liar and a thief and a scoundrel! And he should be put in jail for it along with other thieves and scoundrels
So many are so quick to judge a man you do not know. What right has any one of you to throw stones. Don’t allow your offenses with a man to build a wall of sin between you and God. It is not your job to judge, but Gods. And if Todd has wounded you so deeply, it is your obligation to forgive as you have been forgiven. Sin is sin.. Let God deal with Todd.. and Bless him with good gifts of grace, truth, and forgiveness.
Deleted – off topic – BD
Well after reading through some of what people have written on here I would like to add my 10 cents worth
I worked for Todd for over 5 years and travelled with him.
Do I agree with what he has done? No. His wife and children are suffering beyond belief. Having to sell their house because a single mom can’t afford a mortgage and Shonnah was a stay at home mom. She has endured much heartache and yet has been gracious through it all. We all can learn from her
As for his remarriage, I have sat back and watched this all unfold. Him having vacations ( prior to marriage) with his girlfriend, in Hawaii and getting drunk and who knows what else went on, does not constitute repentance.
Repentance is when you “turn from your wicked ways” but he continued to do what he wanted till he was married and then came back for “healing”. I cannot see what is in his heart but his actions speak volumes. There is much more that I can say on this subject.
Does God forgive? Yes and we should too but I do not think he should ever be placed in a position of leadership. How can you when the example you are giving doesn’t line up with the word of God?
My husband left me for another woman after 16 yrs of being together and he is now married. The after math of what I am going through has been far reaching. Whether financially, emotionally, whatever, it doesn’t go away over night.
My desire is that people would humble themselves and pray. Pray that you don’t become the next person caught in this situation. Pray for those marriages you know aren’t working out. God says that if we humble ourselves and pray he will heal our land.
Instead of being harsh judges, allow God to be God and we pray for his will to be done.
I have had an amazing time working at Fresh Fire and have grown in my walk with the Lord and experienced more than I thought possible. that is because my focus was on the Lord and not Todd.
We need to return to that place or this will happen over and over again. There were some amazing and Godly people there.
Anyway, that about covers my time, wish you all God’s blessing and do not use this as a crutch to stop seeking after the Lord and for the supernatural. It is alive and well and I am thankful that God used Todd to open me up to so much more than what I had been taught.
Pray that can be your testimony too!
Sharon, 1 John 3:6-8 says “No one who continues to sin has either seen Him or known Him. Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as He is righteous. He who does what is sinful is of the devil.”
This passage is warning us that those who continue to sin are leading us astray – their teachings are not to be trusted, if they believed rightly they would have had power over their own sin…. I hope you will take another look at Bentley’s teachings as compared to the word of God for your own sake. There is a power that comes from uncrucified flesh that works counterfeit miracles, yes, even in the name of Jesus – I believe this is actually occult power. The true power that comes from the Spirit comes through the cross, ie, the disciple’s cross, (which is also Jesus’ cross really, they are one and the same in a sense), that we are to carry to crucify our flesh as we follow Jesus.
I appreciate what you said Sharon. Thank you. It’s very honorable of you to share your story. It does help me to see, and move forward.
Thanks again.
Susan
Hi Therese,
I agree with you but we all have things in our lives that need to be brought before the Lord and I will not stand in a place of judgement as I cannot see into his heart. You will note that I did say there is much that I question in his outward actions.
I am not asking anyone to follow Todd’s teachings, I am simply sending a kind warning that people need to sift everything through God’s word and see where it lines up and quit looking to man.
I believe the era of a one man show is over and God is raising up an army like Joel saw.
Nameless, faceless generation that is sold out to Yaweh and him alone. We the church have failed to bring balance in our walk with God. True balance is having spirit and truth. Jesus was a prime example of working the supernatural and yet being humble and only doing what he saw the father doing.
I have experienced many things in my time with the Lord and most of it was in my quiet time and not through corporate setting or in prayer times with others. I know that God wants to open our eyes to see more and as time goes on, the line between natural and supernatural will become thinner as we are being prepared for greater things.
We need to understand that there is a supernatural world out there, evil and good. Through out the bible this was displayed in many ways. How can we battle if we don’t believe?
I realize because of situations like this many are pointing fingers and saying there go the wierd charismatic people again. I challenge you, ask the Lord to open your eyes to see. Do it again in spirit and truth. Do not think everything is false. God created both the natural and the supernatural. Where do you think angels and demons came from?
God is drawing a line in the sand and asking us to come up higher and live a life that is holy and consecrated to him.
Anyway, I could go on. I just challenge again, that we look to God and not to man for our understanding of who he is and use his servants as a tool but sift it through the word of God which brings us much truth and then we won’t be dismayed or disappointed when someone fails.
Pray for Todd. He needs much healing in his life and also men that are Godly and will speak truth into his life
Blessings,
Sharon
Hi Sharon, bless you and thanks for your reply, lots we could talk about – let me just say that the only thing I had in mind with my comment was to give you a heads up about 1 John 3:6-8 and what it is saying to us between the lines, and then I wandered off my topic a bit about something else – but truly it never even occurred to me to comment on your stand regarding the T.B. affair or that you were wanting to promote his teachings, my mind was on another tack entirely, and I’m sorry if what I said gave a different impression – I can be pretty awkward in how I express myself sometimes and would like to blame it on everything from distractions to menopause, but really I think I need to consider that maybe it is my untamed tongue.
(
With regard to that scripture, maybe another way of expanding on it is that when a ‘minister’ falls from grace and his sin is exposed in the sovereignty of the Lord, it signals to us that we need to check where/how he has led us astray from the truth of the gospel. I know from my own experience and the Lord’s gracious deliverance how we unknowingly take in wrong assumptions when we are immersed in certain teachings for any period of time. I’m totally in accord with what you are saying about “one-man shows” and the need to come back to the word of God and test all things against that. Actually I think what is needed is the Spirit, the Word and our crosses, and more besides – if any one of these is missing we will be missing the mark.
There is a common misconception in certain ‘prophetic’ circles that those who criticize and have concerns about their doctrines and activities are somehow against or don’t believe in such things as miracles, prophecies, etc. That may be true in some instances, but I don’t at all see it as being true in the majority that I have come into contact with, and certainly not in my case. I wouldn’t use the term “supernatural” to describe the heavenly realm, however – the word supernatural is one of those things that I think may have begun as a sort of colloquial way of describing something biblical, but which has morphed into a false doctrine/teaching that very much distorts our understanding of the truth that Jesus and the apostles actually taught about the kingdom of heaven. There is a lot of extra-biblical terminology which have become assumptions that distorts our understanding in similar ways, and I would alert and warn anybody because of my own narrow escape, to examine these things very carefully and from a safe distance!
I am truly saddened that this is even debated among Christians. What is the argument here? In light of Todd’s decision to divorce his covenant wife and mother of his children to pursue a so-called marriage to the woman he was cheating with should end all this arguing over whether Todd Bentley is truly a man after God. I’m sorry, but if you fall for this nonsense that Rick Joyner is spewing, then you are decieved. Not to even mention, the false prophesies, the lying, the kicking people in the face for healing etc……those things are on a whole different level.
It appears that some people are having trouble putting this all into perspective. It’s not that hard really……if you know the Word of God. If Todd is a follower of Jesus and a christian as he states, his restoration would include his wife(Shonna) and kids, his restoration would include admitting and asking for forgivness of any lies or misleadings he did at Lakeland. It’s already been proven that there were some…..in fact, many. And please, enough of the “judge not” and ‘let he who is without sin”. We know those scriptures…and it appears THOSE scriptures are the ONLY ones that some of his defenders know. His restoration would include falling on his knees and asking forgiveness from his wife and family AND especially God. NOT a quickie divorce, a quick adulterous remarriage and a fake restoration and back to the pulpit. But Todd refuses true restoration. Why? Because it wouldn’t include his fleshly desires. His sorrow only includes worldly sorrow, not godly sorrow…..how do we know this? Because Godly sorrow leads to repentance, something Todd has not done. You simply can’t repent and keep the spoils of your sin and continue in it.
He is NOT repentant. It doesn’t take a brain surgeon to realize it. He wants to keep the spoils of his pre-meditated sins, and still be embraced by the people of God. And some are having no trouble doing it.
Of course Todd is happy now, he got what he wanted and satan always keeps you happy in your sin…….for a while. But in the end, if no true changes happen, he will reap. No true christian will rejoice in this either…..but God will not be mocked.
Added to what I stated above, I must say that as a leader, Todd Bentley is no longer qualified…at least not until the fruit of true repentance is seen. I say this as a woman standing for the restoration of my covenant marriage of 17 years in which my husband left, divorced me against my will and married the person he cheated with. Exactly what Todd Bentley did. This is not a vendetta I have because of my own situation. I prayed for Todd and his wife and family and was very saddened by it all. But Todd chose the way of the world. I also say I am qualified to speak out against such a person deemed by some to lead others. I speak out not in condemnation of his soul, but as an individual fit to lead God’s people down the right path. This kind of leading will only prove to continue the bleeding of divorce and the breaking up of marriages and families amongst the christian community instead of the restoration of those marriages and families. God’s intention for marriage is not the destruction of it. He created it. Satan’s intentions however are to destroy what God created……and he seems to be doing a fine job in today’s world when it comes to this area. Our society, and unfortunetly some of the churches and pastors and bretheren don’t have any problems helping him along either. If Todd can’t/won’t live/teach by the true Word of God concerning his marriage, his wife, his children. Then he can’t/won’t live/teach by the true Word of God in others….it just stands to reason, doesn’t it? People tend to follow by example. Todd’s example is not of God…..it’s of man and the world.
Go ahead Todd, prove me wrong……..please.
rose the man man mad a move in his life that he knows he mad it also says that you should not judge your brothers and sisters in christ here is my question for you and only you why judge him when God says not to judge pleaase tell me that and one other thing you have never sined if not man i would like to know yourways we all fall short of god glorey even you do i cant seee that your prefect
Julian, Christians all over the world stood up as one voice. It was really something. If you google Bentley you`ll see that cry and warning has continued by some.
We are most certainly to judge behavior of leadership.
I am a Christian, called to preach. However, it disgusts me when I see so-called Christians berating each other, instead of offering a helping hand. I believe the Word of God to the fullest extent, but it not my place or yours, to be judge, jury, and executioner of others who are called by the Most High God.
Was not David a murderer. Abraham a liar. Elijah a coward. Jonah disobedient. Moses also a murderer. Peter cursed and violent. And the list goes on and on.
We are to forgive, so that we may be forgiven. Praise God for His grace and mercy. For if it was left up to you, we all would live in hell for eternity.
Bless you all in the Name of Jesus and praise God’s holy name!
Todd Bentley and his actions are wrongly compared with those of KING David. David was not a priest, he was a political leader; thus, while G-d allowed him to remain king, he paid a high price for his sins as did his family-not a
G-dly king among them in the end and David’s family and the Israelites suffered for generations. Further, David was under the law while we, including Todd, have the Holy Spirit to guide us. Don’t compare David and Todd, please.
“Was not David a murderer. Abraham a liar. Elijah a coward. Jonah disobedient. Moses also a murderer. Peter cursed and violent. And the list goes on and on.”
Yes, but praise God there is now a way to be forgiven through the cross and to turn away from such sin, the way of salvation through repentance.
“In the past God overlooked such ignorance, BUT NOW he commands all people everywhere to repent. For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed.” (Acts 17:30-31)
For “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you WERE….” 1 Cor. 6:10-11
It’s not surprising that many believers object to such a person preaching and teaching the saints of God, especially when we consider the scripture that says that no-one can be better than his teacher – that’s a very sobering thought in a case like this. Forgive and extend grace to Todd Bentley the person? Of course. Accept him as a minister in the church? Of course not, he’s obviously not ready for such a role.
Jim Strait II
“I am a Christian, called to preach. However, it disgusts me when I see so-called Christians berating each other, instead of offering a helping hand.”
What helping hand would you give him now? Would you tell him it’s all okay with God? Would you pick him up and dust him off, and send him back to the pulpit while in full blown unrepentant adultery? Is legalizing your adultery the answer to getting that sin wiped away? What kind of example is this? If you are a christian called to preach, then you should know that there is more to the Word of God concerning others than “judge not”. We ARE to judge and our spiritual leaders if they are not adhering to the Word and in direct rebellion of it. Would you have a thief that stole a car and was driving it to church and trying to justify it preaching to your kids?
Enough of this madness…..look a little closer. Actually read the comments before you post. Nobody is judging Todd to hell. And nobody is saying it’s too late for him either. They are simply saying that in his PRESENT STATE he is no longer fit to be preaching and teaching. And the fact that he “married” his adultery does not bode well for his immediate future either. Do you disagree with this? Do you condone it? Are you willing for him to teach others, including children, when he can’t even repent of what he KNOWS is sin?
This kind of 60’s and 70’s hippie mentality of “LOVE, PEACE, GOD IS LOVE, MAN is what is driving this kind of mess the christian church is in. God’s love and the love he wants us to give one another doesn’t include sexual immorality or adultery. There’s a difference that some of you just can’t seem to grasp.
What matters now is to look forward and continue the journey with Christ. What has happened and what will continue to happen is “many are called but few are chosen”. So let’s continue to stay close to Him who has called us, and do His work with Him who is our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ
It seems as if anyone can get approval to preach as long as they’re saying something that pleases the ears and appeals to the selfish lusts and cowardice of man. In that situation, any sin can be overlooked, forgiven, and even supported and encouraged. But if you preach the Word of God and say anything in disagreement with sin, even in the most loving, gentle, humble way, and you are bound to be given both public and non-public scourgings.
If people love their sin, they will not stand by and let you disagree with someone who is living in the same sin. If they’re in adulterous marriages, they won’t want you attacking one of their own. If you want to oppose anyone else’s sins, that’s OK as long as you don’t touch on one of theirs.
And sadly, this touching of other people’s sins often comes about well supported by human lusts and unscriptural. Sins become non-sins and non-sins become mortal sins. Also, there is a tendency to use sins to condemn a person to hell and shut them up without one bit of desire to help bring them out of sin into repentance as would be the case with a more sincere and loving Christian rebuke.
I am in full agreement with Rose. Jesus and Paul BOTH taught that marriages joined by God ARE LIFELONG, not “supposed” to be lifelong—-and that is why it is adultery to join with another. A second vow does not negate the original vow (as shown in Rom. 7:2-3) AND—— reaffirmed by Paul in I Cor. 7:39 ((for those who insist that Rom. 7:2-3 is NOT “really” speaking of lifelong/binding marriage)).
As for those who have been “loosed”, NT scripture only teaches a person is “loosed” if their covenant spouse dies. If there is a separation/divorce, scripture teaches that the parties are to “remain UNMARRIED or be reconciled”……. There is no third option given by God—unless of course, one wants to engage in immoral relationships outside the God ordained marriage. This is what the VERY earliest church taught and practiced—even in the face of adultery!
One passage that seems to fly right by unnoticed is this one in I cor. 7: “every man should have his OWN wife (not another’s) and every woman should have her OWN husband (not another woman’s). To join oneself with a divorced person is to commit adultery (an ongoing offense as long as the relationship is maintained) according to Jesus and Paul. Just my two…………I truly do hope that Jessa and Todd forsake the adultery they are in now and that Todd and his legitimate wife in the eyes of God are restored and their family healed. Most of all I hope that all come to a TRUE saving knowledge of Jesus Christ and forsake the witchcraft they are involved with.
I don’t know if anyone else will see this, or cares, but because of this man, (Todd Bentley), and all the so called leaders, Joyner, Wagner, etc., men that I HAD esteemed in the Lord, helping with his charade of fake miracles, healings and so forth, because of this my wife and I have turned away from the charismatic movement and Christianity in general.
Many people were hurt and injured emotionally, and spiritually, because of this so called “revival” Once again the “church” is shown to be fraudulent, money grubbing, attention seeking servers of themselves.
If our so called leaders are fooled so easily, where does that leave us followers?
My wife and I were actually chastised by our home group leaders because we dared question the validity of this man and his “revival”. We just didn’t have enough faith, didn’t understand how the Holy Spirit worked, etc.
I’ve given up on praying,reading the Word…whats the point. Jacob I’ve loved, Esau I’ve hated…Just call me Esau.
Signed.
Living with my shipwrecked faith.
Dear Don,
I’ve seen your comment and I do care. I believe that many who read your words will care very deeply for what you and your family are going through. In fact, I believe that this is the reason that people had voiced their concerns about these ministries so passionately.
There is a real reason to persevere in God’s Word, the Bible. If you read it, you will discover the faults in Bentley’s ministry and the others. It reveals the false gospels for what they are. Even more importantly, it reveals the truth about God.
Please don’t give up on prayer. God really answers. Probably not in the way the deceivers may have led you to believe, but He really will answer your needs that the needs of your family.
Unfortunately, I have to agree with many of your observations about many churches. But there are good ones. None are perfect. But God IS.
For your sake, and the sake of your family, please don’t give up on Him!
BTW. You’re not alone regarding chastisement from your church.
I took a kick to the seat of the pants for questioning this ministry after our Pastor endorsed it. Knowing the truth helped a lot.
As things unfolded, our Pastor finally realized the flaws in the ministry and apologized later.
Don, what the devil meant for evil, the Lord meant for good – it says I think in Isaiah that it was the Lord who created the destroyer to work havoc. What I believe the Lord is doing with the Todd Bentley fiasco, is that He’s cleaning His house and toppling our idols (ministers). In our confusion and heartbreak, violated trust, etc, it’s best to lean hard on the Lord for understanding in our perplexity and pursue our own private walk with Him. I believe He’s bringing many out of the apostate church at this time to walk alone with Him for a season. When our faith fails, His is sufficient to keep us. The kingdom of heaven does not come with our careful observation, the kingdom of heaven is WITHIN us – it’s our personal communion with Jesus that matters most, and anything else will eventually flow out of that, in it’s time. We have become so accustomed to associating “church services” with our faith, and feeling we’ll get lost if we don’t have a “minister” to tell us what the word of God means, it can make us feel very insecure in Christ for a while. But the truth is Jesus is all sufficient, and only the Holy Spirit is really able to reveal His word to us anyhow. He would wean us off depending on man/flesh so that we truly begin to depend on and trust in Him. We will find as we go along continually seeking Him for all that we need, that He is truly able. He has not rejected you, or ejected you, He is actually calling you to come to Him.
Don: Thank you for your refreshing honesty and willingness to be vulnerable.
When you are ready to write about how you helped neo-charismatic leaders, and what you got out of that, I’d like to read it.
Having had my faith ship-wrecked I know there is no standard timeline for the grief, loss, anger. betrayal.
I grieve with you and will not minimize your pain.
When disillusionment gives way to exhaustion and stillness, find what many of us who have been shipwrecked find ourselves cast on. The Rock. The one who bore our sorrows and who is acquainted with grief. The one who will not leave or forsake you.
Good on you for seeing and naming the charades. Good on you for naming the sins, fraud, greed, ego, self-centeredness. Good on you for acknowledging the rejection you have been dealt.
What a great question, “Where does that leave us followers?”
“In vain my tears were wet on Heaven’s grey cheek …
Halts by me that footfall,
Is my grief after all,
Shade of His hand outstretched caressingly…”
Francis Thomson – The Hound of Heaven
I believe God is always up to something.
Isaiah 43:19
“See, I am making a new thing! Now it springs up; do you not perceive it? I am making a way in the desert and streams in the wasteland.
Samuel 3:1
“The boy Samuel ministered before the LORD under Eli. In those days the word was rare; there were not many visions.”
Key: Word was rare in those days.
Question: Where is the Lords word for this generation? What can we hear from the Holy Spirit today? We can learn from a young boy named Samuel.
I think of it like transitional periods. God does move in the transitional. Look at our communication, economy, and terrorist worldwide.
Keep in mind the next generation is going to be looking at us. The church is not a cruise ship-it’s a battle ship. Let the next generation count on the older generation to instruct and guide. Be awake and alive for God. Where there is revelation there is relevance. If I may add, parents need to lead their children to Christ, you can’t alway count on the Church. You can aways count on the Lord Jesus! Always!
Oh Don, Jesus sees your deepest hurts and will never let you down. Like Peter in the storm, call on Jesus’ name. Faith is a beautiful gift, and one to cherish.
I’ll be honest a lot of the stuff Todd Bentley does is incredibly “wacky” to say the least. However, I can not see how sitting here commenting on his ADULTERY is any worse than the blatant hate that is being thrown around on these comments. I am a Christian who believes in the sanctity of marriage. However, I am also a Christian who is reminded that love covers a multitude of sin. Instead of wasting time persecuting this man, and casting stones, why don’t we rise up and pray for him and his family. Sounds like the Christian thing to do
It may be hard to believe, but many of us really are praying for this man and especially his family.
However, it is also the duty of christians to be committed to God’s truth and warn people of this false ministry because of the incredible damage that it has been causing.
We are just following God’s command here.
I don’t hate Todd Bentley or his new wife. I do hate the behavior. I think that Exodus 14:15 helps a christian understand how to balance prayer with action. Hear the Lord told Moses to stop praying, and step into action. (I assume the Lord heard enough.) If we know what to do, then we need to do it. In this case, point out this sin, so it want be a stumbling block to others who come along.
Is failing to pray a sin? I think so. However, christians should teach others the right way to God. Eph. 6:18–Good advice. One can set their life around God’s desires and teachings. Then, your life can become a prayer, and your prayer your life.
Acts 4:24 where some of the early believers are a model for prayer. We can follow their lead. We can ask God to remove the problem, and He may do so, or He may not remove it. But, if the problem still remains, He will give us the strength, courage and insight to deal with it.
I think a key concern to this issue is reverence. If we have that, we can approach God with assurance. God want strike us down for asking Him in boldness, to show the wrong in this situation.
Because Jesus is a King, and King of Kings, we are assured that His counsel is the last word.
So, I see keeping our eyes on Jesus is another key.
The unfortunate attitude reflected in Rose’s comment from Mar. 2009 displays the kind of loveless, legalistic Christianity that is responsible for wrecking much of the North American view of Christ and His Bride making the fulfillment of the Great Commission that much more difficult.
Indeed, audultery is a sin and not to be condoned. However, don’t we all engage in this kind of activity against God on a daily basis when we put thousands of lesser pleasures before Him and His Kingdom.
We would be wise to follow His example and forgive, love, and restore broken members of His body as He did for us as individuals.
And for Don and his shipwrecked faith, “the life [you] live, [you] live by faith in the Son of God” (Gal 2:20) and in nothing (revivals false or true), or anyone (Todd) else. Indeed these are trying times for the faithful, yet even when we are faithless He is always faithful. For you, for me, for Todd and for anyone else who repents of their sin.
Perhaps one day when we’re all in Heaven we’ll all be able to look at this previous foolishness and be able to praise God all the more that any of us are there with each other.
Love covers over a multitude of sins. And it’s not wrong. God know’s!
If we agree with the above statement regarding Rose’s comment, then we would have to accuse God of creating the “loveless, legalistic” side of Christianity. Only Rose and God truly know the attitude she had while making the comments, but whatever the attitude behind them, they have to be taken seriously. Is it right to dismiss God’s commands because they seem “legalistic”? (retorical question)
The statement “adultery is a sin and not to be condoned” is correct. However, right after making that statement Nameless attempts to prompt us to condone the sin anyway on the basis that we’re all guilty of it. The truth is that we should never condone it in ourselves, and it should not be condoned in others. The sin is certainly forgivable by God and by Christians, but forgiveness needs to be preceded by confession by the sinner.
Can Bentley be restored to ministry? I believe the answer is yes, but TRUE restoration requires recanting his false teaching, and repenting of his false prophesies, false healings and swindling people out of their money.
I have a crazy idea everyone!!!
Instead of spending hours on your computers debating over meaningless topics that are not ours to judge…get off your lazy, pharisaical, apathetic rear ends and tell someone about Jesus! Is Todd Bentley the only one God Commissioned for such a task?
Omniscient,
Since your name implys your identity, should you not have the answer to your own question? Or do you have the final say?
I say the true I AM already knows what your next thought is.
Sincerely,
Susan
To be truly committed to God is to be totally committed to God’s Truth. That is why this discussion or so-called “debate” is not meaningless. I’ve seen too many people lose their faith over false teaching like Bentley’s.
We do not judge Bentley’s ministry. God does. His scriptures judge this ministry. Your argument is with the one who is truly Omniscient.
“Remarriage”: Rituals by day, rituals by night.
===================================
The Bible commands that “believers” who will not recant from practicing sexual immorality should be expelled from Christian fellowships:
1 Cor 5:9-13 I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people–not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.”
In Old Testament times they were stoned to death.
Rick Joyner and Todd Bentley are just promoting compromise and unrighteousness through their affirmation and continuation of Todd Bentley’s adultery covenant with Jessa Hasbrook.
Evil covenants should be renounced and the relationships they bind abandoned, even if doing that is inconvenient or causes suffering.
Suffering for the cause of righteousness is affirmed repeatedly throughout the Bible.
Sexual immorality (adultery/fornication/perversion) is a known initiation rite for satanic covens, as a desecration against the marriage relationship instituted by the God of Genesis 1:1.
If church people are carrying out acts of unfaithfulness against marriage that represent the same unfaithfulness as satanic covens performing immoral rites “at midnight with candles”, the end result is the same.
The church people might cover their unfaithfulness with “remarriage” ceremonies in churches (during the daytime “with candles on a church altar”), but God is never fooled with dressing up sin to look holy, so people are just fooling themselves to be participating.
God’s grace is being perverted by these practices: Jude 1:4 For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality………
“Remarriages” are actually adultery covenants, and their occurrence in churches invites the devil in, including increased supernatural power from him (seduced by a counterfeit “angel of light” – 2 Cor 11:14).
Desecrating marriages pleases the Devil, so this is probably why Todd Bentley deliberately left his wife Shonna to commit adultery with Jessa Hasbrook.
It consummated him to the increasing direction of his ministry – the Devil.
This may be why Warlock and Knight of Malta, Rick Joyner made sure Todd Bentley’s “restoration” process included continuing the adultery covenant.
See Rick Joyner in a voodoo session that glorifies a false christ. Definitely not glorifying the true Jesus Christ, as he never conducted or promoted ministry manifesting like the mentally deranged.
Todd Bentley may demonstrate increased supernatural signs and wonders as he is restored to closer communion with the devil.
The final end times antichrist will put on a spectacular show to impress all the church people who chase after supernatural entertainments coming from any spirit saying “I’m from Jesus”.
2 Thes 2:9-12 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
Identifying Bentley as ‘churched’ is a stretch.
He lied about being credentialed, he is not ordained and he cherry picks what bible verses he does use, it’s all just a means to an end for him.
In the bible are many examples of ‘realtionships’ Abraham having partaken of his desires then abandoned Hagar and her son and sent her to a place of deep depressions of one sort or another. David partook of his desires then got guilty, then married a woman who thought he should not be embarrasing her. In one way or another betrayal runs rather high in the biblical. Judas, Peter, disciples ‘ falling away, theres a whole lot of ‘goings on it it’. Joseph gets hardly a mention, and theres wars, kings whooping and threatening each other and heaven only knows what else. Its a chronical of the times and those times haven’t changed much have they when you think about it!. What we need then is a love that transends all of the above, a love that does not judge for judgings sake or the appetites of the one doing the judging, a love that sees all and knows all and never uses either to intimidate, harm, deny, spite, or make jealous another, a love that reads the whole of the circumstances, even those hidden, a love that says NO when it has to with a compassion that takes away its sting, a love that says I LOVE YOU SO MUCH AND HAVE DIED SO THAT YOU ALL MAY LIVE (and not know death in its many barbs and stings that come your way). Death has many ways to trap us and death in a relationship or job or wealth or hope are but a few of the enemies ways in which to ‘kill’ a little bit more of the life that Jesus knows is so precious and longs to grant us in full. I myself would not want to be in a relationship that brought hate with it and so if I found myself in that position then in the ‘name of Jesus how would I handle it and be still a part of his love and heart. First I would seek why I had ended up in such a place and what influences had got me there, then I would forgive myself for them and in so doing take any responsibility that they may have had in said relationship and hope for forgiveness in return, to then be in a position to be able to move forward and move on be it to stay or leave. To leave is only one ultimate, when there have been many and so if this option is chosen then you must take all the said ultimates and bring them to a place of love and hope and knowing: Children, wealth, household, and finances and so on. It takes a long time to heal from such a wound and so if remarriage takes place when in thought and sometimes actions you are still with your ex then you are in a form of adultery and that ’stains’ a new realtionship from moving to a place of renewed hope. Jesus is only love and thats what he is when it comes to healing. Don’t remarry yet you have not healed, don’t sleep on your anger, don’t take hope from another whos hope is as fragile as yours for then you would both cancel each others out before you could gift it, never assume that you are healed until ‘you are at one with mine’ and never ever gift when you ‘aren’t up to it’ wait until you are, for false witness in the end brings only more of the same. Never abandon, as I was, never die from hate as I did, and never ever put your trust in those closest for they have a ‘habit of stabbing you in the back when you have healed and they have witnessed it. I WENT TO only him and came out with nothing just as he did for at the end of the day betrayal ran so deep that like him I had to be taken ‘home’. Knowing the enemy is what I am good at now but never ever do I let him get the ‘better of me’ I give it to him for free and walk away knowing I won not he. LOVE NEVER FAILS IF YOU KEEP ON GOING TO THE END OF YOURS AND TAKE ON HIS TO CARRY YOU ON. My love was small and he knew I would need his when destruction came to call. When it did his death saved mine and thats why I love him, may he always be your first call and your last. Todd has a long way to go, yet fame calls him and ‘trips him up’ ‘on the way
>> #139 hopesome 30 Dec 2009 11:04am “What we need then is a love that transends all of the above, a love that does not judge for judgings sake …………. a love that says I LOVE YOU SO MUCH AND HAVE DIED SO THAT YOU ALL MAY LIVE”
Hopesome, in making a statement starting with “What we need then is a love that transends ……..” and ending with “HAVE DIED SO THAT YOU ALL MAY LIVE….”
…. is to encourage people to practice being Jesus Christ (he is the only one who has “died so that all may live”.)
Your rhetoric points in the direction of all the “Jesus in you” waffle including “you are a god”, “you are divine”, which is just “New Age” religion.
To practice being Jesus Christ is to be a false Christ, as there is only one authentic Jesus Christ.
To have church people running around saying “I am a Christ” goes in the direction of Matthew 24:24 “….false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive……..”
>> “if remarriage takes place when in thought and sometimes actions you are still with your ex then you are in a form of adultery and that ’stains’ a new relationship from moving to a place of renewed hope”
That is wicked unbiblical counsel, effectively asserting that repenting of a “remarriage” would be adultery.
You have completely reversed the correct actions to follow:
- Never get “remarried” (binding to another while a previous marriage spouse is still alive)
- Renounce and abandon existing “remarriages” to prove commitment to righteousness.
This would be very difficult for some people’s situations, but this blog thread is about Todd Bentley’s adultery and what is required to correct it: Repent of and abandon the “remarriage” adultery covenant to Jessa Hasbrook.
>> Jesus is only love
Wrong.
Truth comes before love, as love first needs a true, Biblical definition for it to be valid.
Jesus is firstly truth, and he put that against his name: John 14:6 “I am the way, the truth, and the life”.
Most deception is made possible by false definitions of love, which lead towards false Christs.
The Bible is the only reliable source of truth for believing and living correctly.
That is why God gave us the Bible.
Todd Bentley got counsel from angels and imaginations, this contributed to his downfall.
Most leaders of false religions get counsel from angels (familiar spirits – demons masquerading as friendly).
This whole blog thread is about a struggle for truth surrounding false practitioners who have infiltrated the church.
Rick Joyner and Todd Bentley appear to be using the harm they have caused to affirm covenants with the Devil, proven by their actions to continue in the same direction from when their immoral practices and false teachings were exposed.
Seeker3 thank you for your strong reactions to my comments. Truth is love is it not and love is truth. In the biblical we have the ‘unbiblical’ Abraham commited adultery and left behind him a single mother, david committed adultery, betrayal was in abundance, we are told to stay married, be single, and so on, so how in our circumstances of today do we make sense of it all and bring it to a place that relates to what is happening in our world today and in our lives, in other words the ‘practice’ of it all. Remarriage is out there and for the most part is in distress why because the first one left deep scars and resentments and ‘fall out. Many in the throws of a relationship breakdown seek another relationship to heal their brokeness and thats where it is so easy to ‘fall prey to the human weakness’s that prevail among us and dive right into ‘hope’ whos foundations are stong in need not love. Truth you say is what we should seek and I agree wholeheartedly with you there but to seek it we need love for truth can devastate, and destroy us when given in spite or hate or false hope. You dislike false witness and false premise and so do most of us and nothing gets to me more than someone who is trying to be like Jesus, the pulpits are full of those. My Jesus needs to be in the world (because I am) but not of it because I want him to be above all things that come my way so he can guide me through them. That means a practical application to my requirements does it not or is he just the word to you. I wanted the biblical to relate to me not just dictate to me for we can all ‘read off its passages’ and quote till the cows come home, so truth is something I seek the whole time for I know how lies wound and destroy what little hope,faith and honour that we have. Anti Christ is what we have all been given as ‘word’ yet the deep understanding of its meaning we are for the most part left to fathom for ourselves or are given it by anothers ‘word’. When you witness sickness its anti christ for Jesus would never gift such a thing, when you witness war and murder destruction and hate then you know its not of a Jesus who loves but his counterfiet who doesn’t, when you witness confusions then you know that you need Jesus to gift you the wheat from the chaff and so on when you witness a pulpit that speaks out ‘war’ as many seem to be doing at the moment then you Know, for Jesus came to bring peace not war, you long for discernment for you hate lies and desire truth and the anti christ is the best liar of truth you will ever likely witness so yes I am anti truth when it comes in lies and anti lies when it comes in truth, so you say where then do I sit. In the oppositions of,yet in the fore of, on the fence then ! absolutely not in an open minded place of ‘hang on that doesn’t ‘ring right’ with
me’ LORD HELP, wait a minute thats not what its says is it lord, HELP, is it me Lord or is it them, HELP, that has been my journey when seeking truth. He has never let me down and always has he been right. Truth is a word that many speak out but few go beyond, when you do the Todd Bentleys on this world will not deceive you nor the words of others ‘call ‘ you to their deceptions for you will know that truth is love not ME, or IAM, like so many seem to be, or sycophant, or smug, or proud but quitely seeks to secure a place where confusion and ‘babble’ no longer reign. The pulpit is not a place of rest just a place of suppositions unless of course you have walked as he walked and lived as he lived. If you want truth then the ultimate is him or are you ‘put off’ from that by those whos message has lead to confusion, who’s manner was ’sickly sweet Jesus’ or whos false witness was so obviously false. With so many counterfiets out there how will you know truth. You tell me.
How can we know the way to God? Only through Jesus. Jesus is the way because he is both God and man. By uniting our lives with his, we are united with God.
Jesus said that he is the only way to God the Father. Because of Jesus we have all the benefits of being a child of God’s. Jesus is our pathway. By choosing Jesus we join in the devine life with him.
As the truth, Jesus is our reality of our Father God. Jesus in truth, is the only living way to our Father God.
John 14:6
“I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me.”
Pslam 26:3 ( A verse that David wrote.)
“For I am always aware of your unfailing love, and I have lived according to your truth.”
David could only rely on God to declare him innocent. David knew he had sinned. David let God examine him, and trusted God to forgive him.
I see truth as a pathway. A beautiful, wonderful journey in life. We just have to believe in Jesus to save us from all our sins. So, hold on to truth with all your heart, mind and soul. Truth will lead you home!
>> “If you want truth then the ultimate is him or are you ‘put off’ from that by those whose message has lead to confusion, who’s manner was ’sickly sweet Jesus’ or whose false witness was so obviously false. With so many counterfeits out there how will you know truth. You tell me.”
Jesus Christ is only revealed through the entirety of scripture, beginning at the first verse of the Bible and ending at the last:
First: Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
This sets the foundation of the entire Bible, truth about where we come from and who we are accountable to (God who created the world and us).
Believing in evolution is believing in a lie to deny this.
If you do not believe the first verse of the Bible, then you cannot fulfil the last verse of the Bible:
Last: Rev 22:21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen.
The God of evolution through chaos is just a system of lies from the Devil.
Rick Joyner, Todd Bentley, and all the Peter Wagner associated apostles who are in cahoots, follow the god of chaos, Lucifer. The manifestations of their ministries are chaos, eg. all the antics at Lakeland.
We are expected to know and follow a correct representation of Jesus Christ through knowing and following all the counsel of scripture.
In the church there is ongoing struggle between different Christs that are followed by different interpretations of the Bible.
What is the true Biblical representation of Jesus Christ?
Large sections of the church are following a false Christ appropriately named “MammonJesus” because he is a Jesus of mammon, worldy success, money, hedonism.
People get “saved” from financial poverty by this false Christ through the preaching of a prosperity gospel. This includes false grace licences to sin, such as “remarriages”, to compensate oneself from loss and to avoid suffering for righteousness.
Here are some other flavours of false Christ being followed in churches:
PosiJesus (positive about everything Jesus)
UniJesus (in unity with everything Jesus)
ChumJesus (Jesus is my “mate”) (no fear of the Lord)
FlexiJesus (flexibility to sin Jesus)
DrunkJesus (Mystic Jesus of drunken / drugged / mental illness manifestations – Toronto “Blessing”, etc.)
CorpoJesus (Corporate executive Jesus for a franchised business driven church system with business goals, mission statement, and logo. This Jesus serves the business ambitions of men).
This prompts a challenge for people to read their Bibles again to follow the correct representation of God and Jesus Christ, rather than ones they have permitted to suit themselves.
Hopesome, a lot of the Christian counselling teaching for dealing with marriage upsets is based on false Christ teaching, and that seems to be what you are representing.
It is nothing more than “worldly” indulgence and false “inner healing” waffle.
The Christian way is hard, in doing what is right and suffering loss for it.
People who start following a false Christ through improper (perverted) Bible teaching may fulfil any of the scriptures that warn about falling away from the faith.
John 15:6 If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
Matthew 7:22-23 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Running around saying “Praise Jesus” is no guarantee of safety.
More discernment should be practiced about involvement with people who speak like that (which Christ are they praising?).
Matthew 24:24 false Christs and false prophets will appear….
You can work out which Christ people are following by the gospel they speak and the way they live.
Which Christ are you following?
2 Cor 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you–unless, of course, you fail the test?
It is back to the Bible for everybody, and I know this may be disappointing for church people who are looking for signs, wonders, and to be filled up with paranormal power, just like a bunch of sorcerers:
Leviticus 20:6 And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.
If God has given instruction and counsel in a book (Bible), then it is no good ignoring the book and insisting God must give those instructions another way such as dreams/visions, angels, etc.
In that disobedience the devil can turn up to deceive, or worse, God may hand you over to delusions (2Thess 2:11) for not loving the truth (reading and following his Bible instruction).
Jesus said “a wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign” (Matt 12:39).
Does “asking for a miraculous sign” command a performance from God just like the pursuit of supernatural experiences such as being “slain in the spirit”, “Toronto Blessing”, heavenly visitations and visions, etc.?
The Bible does not endorse people directing the Holy Spirit or teach methods to repeatedly make supernatural experiences or events occur in a style of presumption ahead of God’s sovereignty.
The desire to have experiences could be a self indulgent avoidance of what God really wants us to do.
When this disobedience and lack of discernment are combined, people may easily accept counterfeit phenomena from the Devil:
Matthew 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect–if that were possible.
Could Christian fellowships become dens of the occult with things like body vibrations, howlings, apparitions, and visions given by demons?
Yes, some already are.
The seeking of experiences could be an attempt to treat the Holy Spirit like a circus clown or temple prostitute for personal indulgence.
All these wrong things may be tolerated because there is no fear of the lord and poor discernment:
Prov 1:29-31 Since they hated knowledge and did not choose to fear the LORD, since they would not accept my advice and spurned my rebuke, they will eat the fruit of their ways and be filled with the fruit of their schemes.
Christians should discern and reject fraudulent church ministers:
2 Cor 11:13-15 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
1 Tim 6:11 But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness.
Sadly, any averagely intelligent 10 year old unbelieving child could easily have done the correct discernment about practitioners like Todd Bentley, with the most basic logic:
“Dad, those church people looked like they were nuts.
They were vibrating, twitching, having slurred speech, nonsense speech and strange sounds.
Some were acting like dogs, chickens, and lions.
Some people were staggering about, lots fell over.
And there was lots of strange laughing going on.
Mr. Bentley kicked an old lady in the head.
I saw him holding someone else’s hand, not Mrs Bentley.
Are they on drugs or drunk?”
“Son, stay away from them, they must be into something devilish”.
When people manifesting like Todd Bentley and John Crowder are accepted in churches, it is proof there is no discernment at all.
Some church people have been chasing novelty.
They want “dinner and a show” from “the spiritual powers”.
The Devil is obliging by turning some churches into Hellish niteclubs with demonic acts.
The Bible does not encourage Christians to seek “dinner and a show”. That is just a disguised seeking of hedonistic self indulgence, similar to the worldly wallowing in sex, drugs, and rock and roll.
Wining and dining on entertainments from the Devil.
The Bible does not assert the Holy Spirit being at our disposal to give “bliss sessions” and other flesh pleasures similar to sex lust.
Titus 2:11-13 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.
God wants us to have a right heart and sober mind that pursues truth, not a wallowing in experiences and abandonment of self control.
Psalm 86:11 Teach me your way, O LORD, and I will walk in your truth; give me an undivided heart, that I may fear your name.
1 Peter 1:13-17 Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.” And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear.
So the Church, just as he said in revelations needs a ‘clean up’. In America Church is big business and so they need ‘big happenings’ to be ever on the risen church pathways. I agree that the novelty aspect of signs and wonders and so called miracles are for the most part to win the audiences wow and wonder elements and thats counterfiet and making Jesus out to be the novelty. They are in one sense holding captive the ‘audience’ in the ‘hope of what exactly ‘things to come or the thought that if they don’t the bank will be knocking at the door. How many ministries in pride have overshot the mark and ended up in debt and deceiving their congregations into handing over thousands not unlike ‘wall street’ only to stab them in the back and ‘blow it’ on fancy goods and fancy buildings thats human not divine or annointed or truth yet still thousands hand over their cash to the preacher and expect some kind of redemption in the process why THEY HAVE BEEN LEAD TO BELIEVE. How many times does it have to happen before someone points out either how naive we are or that handing over cash does not get you to a special seat in heaven only a special seat in the hierarchy of church and its peoples so yes I agree that deceptions run deep and thats why we must wheat from the chaff what we are ‘fed’ untill such times that our abiding in him means that the burden he takes and his gifts we receive to overcome the deceptions of man and his needs and desires for prominence. Jesus ’s truth is what exactly an ever expanding journey into it. When someone said to me one time how do you know who wrote the bible, were you there to witness it, first and foremost it made me think. They have a point, how do I know in truth unless with my own eyes I have witnessed it. Thats truth right. So from that moment to this I have asked for truth as the doubt that was planted needed peace. From that moment to this he has kept that moment of doubt uppermost while at the same time gifting me not only why it was planted, but that the one who planted it needed the answer but was not at that time in a position to be able to seek it. The truth of why we kill each other, the truth of why we betray each other, the truth of who and what we have become, the truth of not only the enemys interpretations of the bible but why there are so many versions and misunderstandings connected to it and with it. Confusion reigns, expectations vary and not all ‘believers’ want the bother of going to that place of such horror with him, they are to comfortable with sunday church and a chat with the vicar so to speak, its enough for them and so honour them he does and weeps and hopes that they will come to that deep place of his call so that he can show them his place rather than him just being a visitor to theirs. No, I wanted to be shown truth not just try and fathom it out. I read the bible and was at times baffled, hurt, confused, and worried as to what it was supoosed to be telling me, he knew that if he showed me confusion, if he showed me hate, if he showed me false, then at the end of the day I had tested him and he had tested me. a communion of, and a journey of and the end was his not mans or mines and that journey still goes on and thats why never am I thirsty or hungry at the hands of man and his ways never do I seek mans will and never do I believe unless he allows me to for that way I am safe and so is he. Jesus is being watered down for a dollar and a buck a pound and a penny and that hurts and infuriates when I know that what he offers is better, and is never sold for any price but only gifted to those who are prepared to take the agony as well as the ‘fruits’, the horror as well as the hope, and the betrayals as well as the promises. No disrespect but Todd Bentleys sudden redemptions are shallow and weak and will not be lasting, too many want him back on the stage to beguile us and I refuse to take on board his version when my own tells me that the agony has rendered me at times helpless and hopeless and without an anchor to hold fast to, he steps in when ego steps out and ego is for the most part the ‘part’ that we see so I say yes to truth when I have entered its lies and been shown its wheat and chaff and then moved on. The bible is a story of lust, greed, fear, hope, and at the end a revelation. look out for the church is in need of a good clean as are some who make up its numbers, who rule its kingdoms, who prophecy its future and who want its ownership under their name not his. I love you he says, do not be deceived.
When I have dished up a new recipe for dinner, only when it has been tried and tested does it get the ok. Some end up in the ‘bin’ some end up in ‘half way house’ brought out now and again, and some end up on the dinner table and in the memories of those who have tried them. That journey though is essential for taking into account the different needs of those who have had to be fed. Fed some were, they enjoyed it, force fed though was also made known unto me ‘yuk don’t dish that up again’ or I’ll be sick ! ok not the way for you then ! so at the end we all hopefully get what we want and where we want to go. Just make sure your not force fed on the way there by someone who has their interests at heart and not yours.
Hopesome, the many frustrating dilemmas you describe have answers in the Bible. Are you prepared to search for them?
I only seriously disciplined myself to read the Bible from cover to cover on an ongoing basis after I got into frustrating circumstances and found church sermons, church entertainments and counsels were inadequate to address these. You need to constantly be getting Gods word through the Bible directly, especially to combat the constant bombardment of misleading ideas floating around.
It is reasonable to believe the Bible is reliable simply because of its amazing coherency in agreement of its themes from Genesis to Revelation, contributed by many different writers over thousands of years.
I found this article helpful from a Google search of “Is the Bible reliable”.
The Bible is authored by the Holy Spirit (who is in perfect unity with God the Father) through guiding its contributing writers:
Psalm 119:105 Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light for my path
2 Tim 3:16-17 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
The Holy Spirit will never counsel in opposition to the Bible he authored. Knowing the Bible well is the only reliable way to “test the spirits” (to discern between the Holy Spirit and familiar spirits [demons masquerading as friendly] ).
The Bible is a truth letter from God, rather than a “love letter”, because the concept of “love” has been seriously twisted everywhere.
Psalm 51:6 Surely you desire truth in the inner parts; you teach me wisdom in the inmost place.
1 Tim 4:16 Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.
I did not ‘give up on the bible seeker3 as you can see but realised like you that there are ‘many voices, out there’ who would have me believe THEM and not the WHOLE truth of it all and therefore I went in search of him and his truth for myself. The church has many ‘gaps’ in it that are filled quickly and quietly, so that we don’t notice there sounds, by those who’s profits are more important that his or his peoples need for the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth. The profits of the prophets are clouding their foretelling and therefore we end up with the only version they wish us to hear, or be made aware of, in THEIR terms and only their terms. Its prophecy for them and of them and therefore stagnant waters flow and we can end up drinking it. My ‘dilemas’, as you call them, are what keep me and him fed for if I keep asking then he can keep giving. His voice has been professed by many and we can see by some of the ‘fruits’ on offer that obviously they have got their wires crossed somewhere along the line, hoepfully they will increasingly be made more and more obviouse to us all, as also the ones who’s ’sweet sounds’ lull us with their ‘honeyclouds’ ! and who straight facedly lie to us. (Mr Bentley likes the ‘honeyclouds’ and no doubt the Emmas that bring them!) Honey I find is best served in tea. The ‘psychic’ element that swirls among those who ‘need ‘ its messages!’ and ’super natural’ auras or whatever have become mixed in with a genuine need for his guidance and thats why we have always an element of doubt in him and of him which is what the enemys (the anit him) wants. He knows that more clarity and insight is necessary if we are ever to be able to see the wheat from the chaff of it all and to wholeheartedly be able to follow him, it will come, because it has to, if peace is to reign. A FALSE anything is someone who gives you the ‘bits and bob’s of something the bits that they like and use that make them feel happy about something not necessarily you and is more than saying ‘that hat looks nice’ when it so obviously does not, for an enemy intent on deception can be very very subtle when the ‘need’ (to overthrow Jesus) demands it. I still have many dilemas for answers but as the journey continues so does my horror at why the answers have been witheld from us for so long and left in the hands of trustees who have not only let us down but themselves and him. We will increasingly know when we are being deceived but so will those who deceives us and thats a battle that only his truth will win.
Hopesome is not alone in her distrust of the word – I have a dear friend who is a believer with a rich prayer life that I could envy, and for her own individual reasons has had difficulty trusting the bible. For one thing she has seen it used and abused and twisted and manipulated so much, that she is afraid of doing the same thing herself, and so prefers to get her word straight from the horse’s mouth, so to speak. And I think the kind of abuses she suffered growing up tend to make it difficult to trust. But there is the difficulty, that seeker3 brought up, of how to test the spirits without the written word of God. In my friend’s particular case, she has been open and vulnerable to various deceptions along the way, from Mary veneration to Mormonism, because of the lack of the word of God in her life – she has been led by lying spirits at times because she had no way to test them.
The Spirit and the word agree. We need both, we need the witness of at least two witnesses before a thing can be established. The word of God itself testifies in many places of the need and rightness of the word, and the spirit testifies when He draws us to read it and when He opens the word to us (by revelation or illumination, or however we want to call it.) I think where people have gone astray is when they only have the one witness – whether that be the Spirit or the Word. And this in turn has caused many people to either distrust the one or the other – but the answer is to listen to both at the same time. Whenever the Lord has spoken something to me by the spirit, He always confirms it sooner or later through His word. Until then I usually will not stand on it. (Though I confess, I have been lazy or overeager at times and received it before seeing it confirmed by the Word.)
It might be helpful for anyone struggling in this area to look up “word” in a concordance and see for oneself if the Lord has indeed magnified His word above His name. There are even places in the New Testament where the word is equated with Jesus Christ. I don’t think it is necessary to have witnessed personally the Word being written in order to trust it – for “blessed are you who have not seen and yet believe.” Most of us trust in Jesus long before we have “seen” Him in a vision or dream, and of course none of us has met him personally in the flesh, when we began to walk by faith, not by sight.
I visit church but don’t live there, its only a small version of who he is and very often not enough to keep me ‘fed’.
Therese its not so much not trusting in the ‘word’ its more that I need him to establish it, in all its love and passions and truths right there in my heart, so that I can see him and know him fully.
Ah now I think I’ve got you hopesome – sorry, sorry, I’m on the wrong track, I misunderstood something you said earlier. Yes, just “knowing” the word is not enough, though it’s a very good tutor and the place to start, and I love what you just said there! Amen! Me too, I need him to establish His word in me! How stupid I never thought to ask Him for that before! You said a mouthful, thanks, sis!
It can be a pathway fraught with doubts at times and not always helped by those who like to trip us up, but if we ‘keep at it’ then so will he. God Bless
Pentecostalism/NAR, is THE new Roman Catholicism. You are truly naive if you think just because a group that does not call themselves “roman catholic” that they are somehow to be associated with or spoken to like they are just slightly off but nowhere near as different a religion as roman Catholicism is to you.
That is where you are totally wrong, Pentecostalism is THE new Catholicism, is has as much to do with Biblical Christianity then Roman Catholicism does and for any Bible based Christian to expect from or talk like this man or any of the people in his religion expecting them to repent to and preach similar doctrines as you have, then you are truly seduced by him and his false christian pagan religion, just like hundreds of millions of Catholics and lukewarm evangelicals are deceived by the Roman Catholic false christian pagan religion.
The universalist lukewarm spirit now deludes the majority of all western churches into an unbiblical effeminate ecumenicalism through a bombardment of heretics who bring an indifference to all that is holy and righteous.
Max:
Canada is 50% Catholic, you aren’t going to get the theological shivers that you’d get from the US bible belt.
I agree neo-pentecostalism and neo-charismatics have their set of saints, their heresies, however I think just like in the RCC, there are believers who are not taken in by heresy.
Following is the prophecy spoken by Peter Wagner, leader of NAR (link: New Apostolic Reformation) over Todd Bentley at his commissioning ceremony at Lakeland in 2008.
The process was called an “Apostolic alignment”.
People should never align themselves to anything except God’s word the Bible, which is closed off at Revelation 22:21 and includes the teachings given through apostles. (Modern “apostles” or “Prophets” cannot insert or append anything to the Bible).
Alignment ceremonies such as these are coming from false prophets and false apostles trying to assert greater authority than God’s completed scripture of the Holy Bible.
Peter Wagner:
(Can be seen on video here.)
In the context of Todd Bentley’s adultery (new relationship that surfaced), the last sentence in that prophecy might mean “adultery will open the gates to the future”.
It has “opened the gates” to increased Satanic ministry through Todd Bentley formally binding himself to Jessa Hasbrook with an adultery covenant (“remarriage”).
The above Peter Wagner prophecy can be viewed as either a false prophecy (not coming from God), or as a true prophecy (coming from the Devil).
If Peter Wagner has actually predicted that Todd Bentley’s adultery will open the way for increased Satanic ministry, then it seems that Peter Wagner is confirmed as a mouthpiece for the Devil while pretending to be speaking from God.
No shivers from me, but a hearty ‘Amen’ to Max’s well-spoken comment. There are many who believe, but not many who follow. If they come to understand what they have been a part of, those who follow the Lord will “come out of her” (the harlot church) in order to “go to Him outside the camp, bearing his reproach” (Heb. 13:13). If they belong to His sheepfold, they will follow their Shepherd where He is leading them, there. It is always a case of Him being found outside the camp, but I think never more true than at the end of this age, and I believe never has it been more necessary to “Come out of her my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues.” (Rev. 18:4)
I wonder if Jesus is writing your backbiting gossip sins in the sand.>> Your desire to cast Todd into hell through your words is not the will of God. Life and death are in the power of the tounge ,,, Right,,,,I hope Jesus saw your tears fall when you prayed for Todd to be fully restored to Life (Jesus) in God. I pray in Jesus name that God would break every word curse that was spoken here. Also God please forgive every one who said things that destroy including my own words. Have mercy on us all and restore us all to that perfect communion that Jesus had with God when He walked the earth , and Adam also had in the cool of the day while he communed with you. Restore Us “OUR” Father in heaven, your “Will be done here” just like in Heaven , so be it.
It certainly is NOT our desire to see Bentley cast into hell. In fact, if that happens it will NOT be because of our worlds. It will have nothing to do with anyone else except for God and Bentley. I would like to see Bentley restored fully throught TRUE repentance.
However, several of Bentley’s activities have NOT been in accordance with God’s will due to their clear violation of God’s commands that He has given to the world in writing. It is too bad that you have missed these important elements of God’s Will despite the screen name that you’ve chosen.
It is the Will of God that christians rise up and warn others that Bentley’s ministry is a false one. It has caused incredible damage so far. Those that refuse to listen do so at their peril.
Sorry, I made a typo mistake.
Regarding the question if Bentley were to be cast into hell, “if that happens it will NOT be because of our WORDS.” (not worlds)
Re: Comment # 157
I feel very sorry for those who believe that their sincere concerns and criticisms of any ministry constitutes sin/cursing, and then project that onto others while ignoring/negating those sincere concerns instead of addressing them. It’s the stuff that cults are made of, unfortunately. The recent actions of the false prophet who was lifting ‘curses’ off Todd Bentley serve to enforce and trap people further into this kind of erroneous thinking. But I don’t understand why people choose to just believe everything they are told instead of searching the scriptures for themselves – this amounts to placing personalities above God in their lives.
Hi Sean and Theresa ,
I can see that you were quick to repent after you saw your MASSIVE typing mistake “words and worlds”. I Hope no one ever falls into the same typing error you made 
Maybe I will make a video and post it on another blog to warn other typers. Or maybe i’m just looking at your mistakes and not your heart.
Sean:
I forgive you for your typing SIN
Theresa:
Hi , I’ve searched the scriptures and found that old covenant thinking was to stone the sinner. Here it is–>
John 8 (King James Version)
1Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.
2And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
3And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
12Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
___________________________________________________
John 8:7 (Contemporary English Version)
7They kept on asking Jesus about the woman. Finally, he stood up and said, “If any of you have never sinned, then go ahead and throw the first stone at her!”
———————————————————————————-
SELAH
Will of God – I see you are still accusing those who are opposed to the ministry of Todd Bentley instead of addressing their concerns. It is also written…..
2 Thess. 2 “…He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple (ie, the church), proclaiming himself to be God…..The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion (cult?) so that they they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.”
Gal. 1:6-10 “I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel – which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, LET HIM BE ETERNALLY CONDEMNED! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, LET HIM BE ETERNALLY CONDEMNED!
Am I now trying to win the approval of men or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.”
Gal. 2:11-14 “When Peter came to Antioch, I OPPOSED HIM TO HIS FACE, because he was clearly in the wrong……..When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter IN FRONT OF THEM ALL, “You are a Jew yet you live like a Gentile. How is it then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?”
1 Timothy 4:1-7 “The Spirit clearly says that in later times, some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through HYPOCRITICAL LIARS, whose consciences have been seared a with a hot iron..…IF YOU POINT THESE THINGS OUT TO TO THE BROTHERS, YOU WILL BE A GOOD MINISTER OF CHRIST JESUS….have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives tales, rather, train yourself to be godly.”
2 Timothy 3:1-13 “But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be ……lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God – having a form of godliness but denying it’s power (by their LIVES, not their mouths). Have nothing to do with them….these men oppose the truth – men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected…..evil men and imposters will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived…”
James 4: 4 “YOU ADULTEROUS PEOPLE, don’t you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God?”
2 Peter 2 – read entire chapter! It begins with false prophets and ends with dogs returning to their vomit. In between it talks about filthy lives, following the corrupt desire of the sinful nature, and adulterous eyes – all these things are LINKED TOGETHER – false prophets, filthy lives, adultery, despising authority (rebelliousness) and RETURNING to wallow in the mud again.
Jude 1: 3- “….I felt I had to write and URGE YOU TO CONTEND FOR THE FAITH that was once for all entrusted to the saints. For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men who change the grace of God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ (by their lives, not their mouths) our only Sovereign and Lord.” Read whole book.
And these are the apostles at their mildest – there is much more in the epistles that I hope you will search out and think on. Goodness, these passages seem to have been written with Todd Bentley specifically in mind – they are an accurate description of his life and ministry so far.
Hi therese,
I’m not accusing any one . I’ve wept over Todd bentley in prayer because Jesus loves him just as much he loves you, And me , and were not better than him , I sinned many times before and recieved the mercy of God because he keeps on forgiving me of my weaknesses> Todd sinned almost 2 years ago and I’m not accusing him.,are you? , I believe God forgave him the moment Todd from his heart decided to “FOLLOW JESUS AND NOT WALK IN DARKNESS” JOHN 8:12,
satan “little s” can quote scriptures like he did to jesus in the wilderness , so I look for the character of Christ when I read scriptures.
PS: I dont really care too much about Todds ministry . But I love my brother. And the ministry of Christ through him is what I look for,
1 million souls saved, untold hours in prayer , untold people healed and delivered, Only God can save 1 million people , I’ve only lead about 12 people to Jesus , and God gets all the glory because he draws them in by his spirit. And thats who I look for In people.
He who loves his brother if of God. he who hates his brother is a…….
Hello WOG,
Thanks for forgiving my “sin”.
I certainly recognize my unworthiness to judge. Please be assured that I harbour no hatred for Todd Bentley. In fact, I do love the man and truly hope that God does not cast him into hell in his time of judgement.
However, Bentley’s ministry clearly violates many of God’s commands in the scriptures and people have to be warned that this ministry is a false one. You’ve said it yourself that you don’t really care too much about his ministry.
So far, it has caused an incredible amount of damage, personally to many people:
- The faith and hopes of many people have been crushed when the hoped for healings did not come to pass.
- People in order to “claim their healing” went off their medical treatments and literally suffered because of it.
- Healed people dying from the diseases they were healed from crushing the faith of their loved ones.
- Disillusionment and destroyed faith in Jesus Christ when they found the teaching they received from Bentley and people like him was indeed false.
- Money swindled from many people who could not afford it.
- People like Bentley and other televangelists are held up as an example of what Christianity is by the opposition and it has tarnished the reputation of Jesus Christ.
Bentley’s claims of people healed and resurrected were testable. Investigators found that none (ZERO) could be medically verified.
1 million saved? My guess is that this number is exagerated. However, I do believe that there probably were many that did express faith into what Bentley was preaching. My prayer is that hopefully many of these people will hold onto what is true and come to a true faith in Jesus Christ, but I know that this is not going to happen 100%.
God’s Will is that we commit to HIS Truth. Bentley ministry is definitly mixing in too much false teaching and must be avoided until he goes through a true restoration.
My last words:
If you see Todd Different from the perspective of Jesus , your not close enough.
Who said love your enemies?
I’ve done all I can to love. And my tears are a witness that Christ’s love has reached out to Todd and the bloggers who tear him to shreds. I’ve typed with tears rolling down my cheeks for us just to pray for one another so we would all be right with God.
Thats the will of God, He just wants His kids to love Him first so His love can also flow to others through His body (us).
We may not all agree with each other, but if we love , that will surpass the tree of the knowledge of good and evil , God is Love, and Love is the fruit of His Spirit , and in His Spirit is Life and peace.
I leave Todd in the hands of Jesus , I also leave us in the hands of Jesus , If I offended you please forgive me , I’m not perfect .
I hope you can see my heart .
James wrote: (chapter 5)
9) Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.
(and)
16) Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed…
What is the definition of ‘being saved’, born again!, what is the definition of being ‘born again’, re-birth, what is the definition of re-birth, bringing forth for a ’second time’. Buzz words ! The Church and Mr Bentley hide behind them.
At the end of the day Mr Bentley talks a lot, wants a lot, has (he thinks!) the lot and expects us to believe him. Our job is to ask ourselves if we do, why we do and what to do about it when and if we do.
We have doubts, therefore we do not believe (what exactly!) that Jesus is who Todd says he is, that the way he expresses that to us is more in showmanship than reverance, that surely Jesus loves us all in a special way not just Todd and Co., and that Todds compassions on display are rather short of the real thing, and that Todds desire for an audience is rather more than his desire for reality. I think Mr Bentleys ‘hell’ is on display. Oh that Jesus would walk in and bring them all to their knees.
Manic laughter, has a place but that place is not in the name of Jesus!
Hello WOG,
Something to consider:
Who is really showing Todd true love? Is it the people who allow and encourage him to continue with his ungodly activities, or is it the people who are honest with him and call for him to repent?
I know I am an sinner. I deserve punishment in hell for my sins, but that won’t happen because of Jesus.
Bentley’s sins are public and it’s obvious that he hasn’t repented of them because he continues in them. True love requires a rebuke here and there when needed.
On that basis, I really have to question how much you truly love him despite your display of emotion. Love is not just feeling, it requires action.
Hi Sean,
Last words #2 (smile)
I dont know what sins he’s continuing in?
I thought he repented long ago.
Jesus wept over jerusalem then he died for them. (action)
Would you die for Todd… ? ???
Me neither , but I did pray for him and felt the love of God for him.
And I also prayed for forgiveness for all who hate him. (I know you dont, I read your posts.) Yet some really do, which breaks my heart.
I myself am in restoration. I love Jesus with all my heart and He is my focus , Not Todd , When we look at man and take our eyes off Jesus we will ALWAYS find fault. even when we look at ourselves we will find fault.
I guess the best thing that God brought out of this mess is , If we look to man for oil for our lamps, we are foolish virgins.
We all need to pay the price and have our own relationship with the King of kings, Peter denied Jesus 3 times while he was following him from a distance
Matthew
26:58But Peter followed him afar off unto the high priest’s palace, and went in, and sat with the servants, to see the end.
but he was restored after Jesus asked him the most important question 3X even for us today. Do you love me , Do you love me , Do you love me. Loving Jesus with all your heart is the only path to true restoration. And in that love he gives you bread for His sheep.
If Todd really is part of the body of Christ, then what we say about him we say about us and Jesus.
thats why Jesus said when you pray say “OUR FATHER”
and again with the sheep and the goats , I was thirsty , I was hungry , and you didn’t “” ME.
my only action is to love and to pray.
I dont know what else to do but to leave us in the hands of Jesus.
Romans 13:8
Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
It’s very tragic that Todd preaches a false gospel accompanied by counterfeit miracles, and that he is leading countless people away from the gospel given to us by Jesus and the apostles. His life so far testifies loudly and repeatedly of his unfitness to minister. The bible speaks of preachers and teachers being judged more strictly – because they are accountable not only for their own soul, but for the souls of those they preach to and teach. We can weep and pray for the man, as many who oppose Todd’s ministry have done, and I hope we won’t forget to pray and weep for those who are being led by him along a broad path to destruction.
It would be wonderful to see him repent, to see the fruits of repentance, and to see him receive the pure gospel of Jesus Christ, and it’s sad that so far that hasn’t happened, nor is it likely to when he is surrounded by other false ministers who don’t apply biblical church discipline and give Todd a soft landing every time he falls – which is consistent with worldly humanistic thinking, not the truth that we are taught by the word of God.
Jesus was consumed with zeal for his Father’s house – he was opposed to those religious leaders who lived hypocritical unholy lives and preached/taught falsely. Those who belong to Him will be found jealously guarding the purity of the gospel and driving out the money changers from the Father’s house. Without a pure gospel, and a HOLY undefiled sanctuary, the church, who can be saved? It takes more than mental assent to be saved, it takes power, the holy kind.
Hello WOG,
You’ve quoted excellent scriptures and I strive to live by them, although I’m not perfect. I praise God that he has forgiven my shortcomings. I feel absolutely no hatred or bitterness towards Todd Bentley, but God is commanding Christians to warn others of Bentley’s ministry.
You asked the question, “what sins he’s continuing in?” This has been discussed very heavily and there is no space to repeat it all. I would suggest reading all the relevant scriptures in their proper context, and in prayer to God that the Holy Spirit reveal the true interpretation. Then look closely at what Bentley is preaching and practicing. I believe that when people do this, the revelation of Bentley’s sins will be inescapable. His “repentance” seems to amount to “sorry for causing all the confusion” type statement.
When I first heard about Bentley’s ministry, I approached it with an open mind. I looked carefully a both sides, at what he was doing and practicing, and at the scriptures carefully before coming to a conclusion. I believe that the conclusion that I have reached and the process that I went through has been a revelation of truth from God. I’ve noted that several people have reported receiving direct messages and visions from God warning them to stay away from Bentley’s ministry long before Bentley’s fall at the end of Lakeland. I’m not Cessationist. In light of what happened subsequently I believe the communications from God that these people testified to are true.
I fully agree with you that many of his critics have gone to far. I don’t fully know their hearts, but I would guess that they probably carry hatred for Bentley. I join with you in prayer that they would repent of this and accept God’s peace and forgiveness.
To address some of your previous comments: “1 million saved”. This is an ends justifies the means argument and it definitely is not what God desires. Disobeying God because it produces positive results for ministry is something that He is definitely NOT please with. Remember Samuel’s statement to King Saul, “To obey is better than sacrifice” when Saul tried to use that argument.
Your discussion began several comments above with the “curses” that our words have placed on Bentley. It may seem hard to believe, but the calls for him to truly repent before the Lord are actually a blessing. IF Bentley is indeed cursed, and IF he is cast into hell, it will likely be caused more by the support and encouragement of those around him (including Jones) to continue in his sinful activities than from me.
Would I die for him? I’d like to think that I would, but I have to be honest and say that I can’t tell until I face the situation.
My question to you is: Do you love him enough to examine his ministry and urge him towards the repentance that he needs?
Hellow Theresa,
I’m not sure what you mean by false gospel ,
(please read the whole thing I’ve read yours)
For all it’s worth , I was in a few of Todd’s meetings when he was younger , and I used to think the bible was boring (honestly) , but after hearing him preach the gospel heal the sick and prophesy over people , WOW I thought , He not only teaches but his words are with power , He would say that he would just spend hours communing with God (prayer) and thats where he recieved his sermons from.
So I got so hungry for God that I would actually pray while I read the bible , WOW , the bible came Alive because Jesus is Alive and His Words were jumping off the page into my heart , some days I would be in the bible and prayer upto 12 hours , One week I went through the entire new testament 2 and 1/2 times in that week alone. my love for Jesus and his word came alive. Well that is the impartation I recieved from Todd when we were younger , We both got saved around the same time, and were about the same age.
“False” , you must mean the angel deal (i’m guessing) , well from the beginning of the bible to the end, Its full of people encountering angels. I’ve seen angels as well , and every time they just back up Gods Word , they gave the visions to John,
Revelation 1
1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and “signified it by his angel” unto his servant John:
Isn’t Jesus the same yesterday today and forever (Today).
In the last days the bible says He will pour his spirit on all flesh and there will be dreams and prophecy , (but this comes from God’s Spirit.)
When it comes to spiritual things like Angels , visions , dreams , etc.
If I cannot find it in the bible (I dont care if my pastor says it) I give it to Jesus and leave it alone. (the EMMA angel ??) I dont see her in the bible. so its not valid in my opinion. Is there an angel named EMMA ? I dont know , and I dont care. I leave it with Jesus.
My point is this, I believe with all my heart that Todd is my brother in Christ . No matter how much deception has crept in , he is still my brother. So I treat him the way I would treat myself (one body in Christ), I dont call myself a deciever or false prophet , why would I call him that then?
I’ve been through the bible now about 30 times and I’m still finding out what I believe ,(I’ve even changed some of what I believe by beholding Jesus) I used to believe God was floating in the clouds , Until I met him. I used to believe I could sin whenever I want and flip a quick heartless forgive me prayer, until I met Him , The closer you get to Him the closer you get to being like him.
You also said “he is surrounded by other false ministers” I dont understand?? I have listened to Bill Johnson and rick joyner and I see Jesus in them , I dont agree with everything my pastor says but I wouldn’t call my pastor a false minister because of that. I’ve even been in one of Rick’s meetings and 75% of the people were brought to repentance for gossiping , I was there 3/4 of the people stood up and asked Jesus to forgive them… (I think that is good fruit) I wish I could have been in his other meetings.
Bill johnson has a podcast you can download here is his website
http://www.ibethel.org/ I already listened to about 40 of his messages and really believe this is truth that he is teaching..
I dont understand why you call them false ministers???
They seem pretty good to me. maybe i’m not at spiritual as you , I dont know?
Sean ,
Sheesh , I was trying to leave this website alone , but you and Therese Keep typing , Its ok though , I got laid off from my job so this is my weekday church life I guess.
post #14 Randy “Not Todd the Fraud, Jessa the Jezebel, or the ‘Joiner’
in their sins, is sorry one little bit. Crooks.” (I would consider this a word curse or at least gossip.) Even if this was true. Its still Gossip if its done without saying this before God with the Hope’s of Redemption. It just looked like criticisms to me , I dont think Jesus would talk like that . YES He did Kick over the tables and can you believe it……Ran through the temple with a whip , WOW , but He also wept over the same people and allowed them to nail Him to the cross , and prayed for them in his dying breaths Father forgive them for they know not what they do. (I dont think we know what were doing when we slay others with our words either)….
I did read about 60% of the posts on this website, and saw alot of scriptures about marrige and divorce, I guess thats what you mean by continuing in sin , (still married to Jessa.)
All I can say is this , I dont have a doctrine on marrige divorce and remarrige , of course God hates Divorce but look at this,
Jeremiah 3 (King James Version)(read the whole chapter for context)
1They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man’s, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith the LORD.
8And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
14Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:
God gave Israel a bill of divorce vs:8 and vs:14 He says I’m married to you, OK….
1 Corinthians 7 (read the whole chapter for context)
39The wife is bound by the “LAW” as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.
40But she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God.
(The WIFE is bound by the LAW.) (law)
Todd divorced Shonna , and on the Fresh fire website it was written as Fornication , I think thats why he stepped down , I’m not sure , I cannot find the document. Well now he IS divorced and decides to marry again (Paul said seek not a wife if you divorce to VIRGINS , and it wasn’t a command from the Lord.)
Did he sin (Yes) unforgivable (No) , now he’s married to Jessa ..Is this Legal before God…..(thats the debate here right) All I can say is it is written ,
Matthew 19 (King James Version)
1And it came to pass, that when Jesus had finished these sayings, he departed from Galilee, and came into the coasts of Judaea beyond Jordan;
2And great multitudes followed him; and he healed them there.
3The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
4And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
7They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
8He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
9And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for FORNICATION, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth HER which is put away doth commit adultery.
10His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.
11But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.
OK… Except for fornication , well Sin seperates us from God , And Fornication is a sin , lets read this one more time
(Jeremiah 3:1)
They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man’s, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted?
thats the question.
If Todd returnes to Shonna would that pollute Her ?
How about this , Can Todd bentley sleep with Shonna right now ? or would he have to remarry her?
But he is married right now to Jessa , because the first contract of marrige was broken due to fornication. (right)
to divorce again wouldn’t that be a sin? (the first one was , why repeat it, and without the grounds of fornication.)
HELP???
An Indian lady was married to another indian man before an idol (false god) and in the name of that Idol were they married . Then the woman became a christian and her pastor said the marrige wasn’t legal , and she was living in sin because only before the true God can they be joined together! what should the lady do , for the man will not accept Christ , nor be remarried before the true God.
1)What should the woman do?
2)is she living in sin?
Hello WOG,
I’m not going to pretend to have all wisdom and give advice on what to do with the marriage situation. Should he divorce Jessa and re-marry Shonna? I really don’t know. What I do know is that he should reconcile with Shonna and the children to the extent possible, and I believe that this should be his FIRST priority. I’ve seen (first hand) too many tragedies of family break-ups, and especially the children. It was like part of their souls were sucked out of them. If I had to give him advice, he should make as much time for his children as he can and Jessa should accommodate that need.
This article was posted on this site right after the marriage (10 months ago, long thread). I’m not going to vouch for all of the details, but the main point that it was the wrong thing for him to do is correct.
The Indian situation? Is she living in sin? As you pointed out, I’m not qualified to judge, but I do know through faith that God will work it out for her. God will forgive the woman and meet her needs.
Back to the point: Bentley’s family issues, although serious, is not my main concern. My main concern is the false teaching, false words from God, false visions and the false healings. I’m not sure that the methods of manifesting activities like laughter in the spirit and falling down and shaking on the ground are demonic or just humanly faked. People have testified to coming under demonic attack after following certain rituals practiced by Bentley and published in his books.
The real smoking gun is the healings and resurrections. He claimed that he was responsible for 33 resurrections. If true, there is certainly opportunity for confirmation of this claim. Many, many people (including me) literally spent months scouring the web looking for some sign of a resurrection or a healing that could be medically verified. There was NOTHING that demonstrated something truly miraculous. As you know, professional reporters looked for confirmation from contacts that Bentley gave them. Result? NOTHING! In fact, it was reported that some of the people on that very contact list died from the diseases they were healed from within a year.
I fully agree with you that name calling is something that should not be included in this discussion and it does not provide any help in resolving this issue.
God is good. You don’t have to go to Bentley to find Him. God will meet you directly through a personal relationship made possible by what Jesus accomplished through his death, resurrection and intercession. Involvement with Bentley’s ministry will only mess that up. Therefore people have to be warned to stay away from it.
Hi Sean,
Like I said earlier in the thread:
PS: I dont really care too much about Todds ministry . But I love my brother. And the ministry of Christ through him is what I look for,
I am interested in his restoration though , (for I also am in restoration.) As for the lakeland revival , I only watched 2 or 3 episodes on the internet (and that not even till the end.) so I dont know what all happened there , If there was fake miracles and false teaching etc, I dont know , But I do remember him mostly from the early years in abbotsford before he was “coff” famous. He had a teaching called The Secret Place , And it ignited a deep hunger for the Word of God and Prayer in me , and I believe this teaching came out of a pure relationship with God by the fruit it produced in my life .
If you read my earlier post I honestly found the bible to be boring , until I prayed to God while reading especially vs 17
Ephesians 1:16-21 (King James Version)
16Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
17That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
And this was his theme , I have watched all the restoration videos
http://www.morningstarministries.org/Groups/1000040651/MorningStar_Ministries/Media/VIDEO_Todd_Bentleys/VIDEO_Todd_Bentleys.aspx
Todd talked about spending time with his kids (disneyland etc.)and his relationship with Shonna is better as they have forgiven each other, and Shonna even gave Jessa and Todd her blessing ,
maybe we should give todd a taste of his own medicine ,
God In Jesus name I ask that you would Todd Bentley the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of you , enlighten the eyes of his understanding to the HOPE of your calling in Jesus name amen.
AAAAHHHHH!!!! I made a typing sin ,
God In Jesus name I ask that you would “GIVE” Todd Bentley the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of you , enlighten the eyes of his understanding to the HOPE of your calling in Jesus name amen.
Romans 8:1 thank you Jesus
Just some thoughts: Marriage, according to Jesus, is simply a man and woman coming together as one flesh – I don’t think we need a minister, a ceremony, and vows because Jesus said to simply let your yes be yes. (although the laws of the land might require some or all of these things). The Indian husband and wife in the example are husband and wife not because of any ceremony or vows to an idol or to God, but because they became one flesh. I think all they would need to repent of is idolatry, not their marriage.
Todd demonstrated his lack of repentance for adultery when he left his wife and by intent of marriage cleaved to his mistress. If he had really repented of adultery, he would have put away the mistress, not the wife. To me, that’s obvious.
“(Jeremiah 3:1)
They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man’s, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted?
thats the question.”
Shonna has not become another man’s wife, therefore in God’s eyes, Todd now has two wives, and scripturally is not qualified for church leadership according to the passage that talks about elders being the husband of one wife (in addition to his other problems).
In scripture what is good for the goose is not always good for the gander – a man may have more than one wife, a woman may only be the wife of one man. I believe because of love and because of Christ having only one Bride – marriage being a prophetic image of Christ and the church – believers eventually grew in the Lord to accept having one wife. It was a sign of lust being overcome, when a man wanted only one wife, even though the culture of the day permitted more.
Willof God, all I think I can suggest is that you read the four gospels, the life and ministry of Jesus, the gospel he preached, and compare any and every ministry to see if it looks even remotely like that. Simple, humble, holy. No “apostolic alignments”, no “higher levels and deeper devils”, no knights in shining armour flashing imaginary swords around, no thoughts of taking over cities or the world, no formulas, no hype, no nonsense. God’s idea of glory is not man’s idea of what is glorious. If you are sincerely interested in researching the false doctrines and false teachings coming from the false prophetic movement, it’s all over the internet and some here as well. But I think it can only really be discerned when we have a grasp of the spirit of the true ministry of Jesus as given to us in the gospels, and maybe we need to come out of the apostate church first (for me, I didn’t begin to discern these things until the Lord had shepherded me away from the false church for some time, and even now I find I need to cling to Him in order not to be deceived sometimes – where discernment fails and I can’t tell the difference, I just cling to Jesus my Shepherd because He knows what is of Him and what is not even when we don’t).
I can’t speak for Todd when he first came to believe in Jesus, only that in the very late 90’s and/or early 00’s the few times I saw his ministry in person, I was not drawn to it and left the services early when I could – hindsight tells me there was little or no Jesus to be drawn to, it was all flesh. I knew nothing back then about doctrine. But God makes the most of every opportunity and He is able to still minister through false prophets and false ministers – He is able to make donkey’s talk and rocks cry out. We need to be careful to give glory only to God and not to a man. Jesus entrusted himself to no man because he knew what was in the heart of a man. We are called to hate our brothers and sisters, compared to our love for Christ, so that our love for them will not be our own but His, and so that we will not be influenced away from truth by fleshly human loyalties. A real man of God will not expect or want any glory, knowing he is just doing the work of a servant, and wanting to please only his master.
(And I’m just sharing my understanding of what the word of God says, not trying to imply that I’ve attained to it myself – I fall very short in many areas and often despair of ever being better – but thank God He is able to do more than we can ask or imagine – so there is hope, even when we can’t imagine ourselves being more like Jesus.)
Dear brother, may I just give you a little word to the wise? It seems to be your philosophy that we are to look for the good in people, ie, look for Christ, and ignore the rest? That thinking simply isn’t scriptural and I think might be from some wrong teaching you’ve been exposed to along the way, if I understand you correctly. It’s very much humanistic, worldly thinking of our current culture, which is very sick, and this thinking is common with some pagan religions too, I believe. For our own sakes as well others, we must learn to separate the chaff from the wheat and we are to take a stand against the wrong. Iron sharpening iron. (And I don’t claim to be perfect in this either, far from it, but it’s the word of the Lord to us.)
“If your brother sins, rebuke him….” Luke 17:3
“….correct, rebuke, encourage – with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine….” 2 Tim. 4:2-3
“Therefore, rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith and will pay no attention to Jewish myths or to the commands of those who reject the truth.” Titus 1:13-14
Can I just add, WOG, that when the Lord ministers through a vessel of mixture the people are receiving the poison along with the good, and that I wouldn’t be surprised if that is the reason you are needing restoration right now. As soon as we become aware of impurities in a vessel, we should stop drinking from it, no matter how good it tastes! The Lord just clarified that for me, praise His name!
Psalm 75:8 “For in the hand of the LORD [there is] a cup, and the wine is red; it is full of mixture; and he poureth out of the same: but the dregs thereof, all the wicked of the earth shall wring [them] out, [and] drink [them].
I genuinely asked the ministry where my money went for the Lakeland “outpouring”. I never got an answer. The next thing I know is Todd’s remarried, which was not presented on God TV. If there is nothing wrong with it, why hide it?
The saddest thing about this is the unbelievers looking on who were suspicious in the first place. I had unbelieving family there who now laugh at me and discredit what the Holy Spirit truly does.
God showed up because there were true hearts seeking after God.
Without true repentance many will be hurt again. To see a relaunching without a true repentant heart, is so sad. He can have his little empire, I choose God who works through each one of us.
Thanks Therese
you are absolutely right , I do look for the good in people , Jesus himself said only God is good , I also wrote”I used to believe I could sin whenever I want and flip a quick heartless forgive me prayer, until I met Him” (Jesus), I know the love of God , and I’ve tasted a little of the severity of God . His love (goodness) always led me to repentance.
I’ve read your writings, and the last two really impressed me , you quoted “If your BROTHER sins rebuke him”
Heres my story:
I’m just a worshipper , I love Jesus with all my being , I’m also labeled by man as a worship leader , because I play guitar and sing to Him in my church, before I was launched into this , I was always 24 / 7 a worshipper , I remember my early post , up to 12 hours a day in the bible and prayer , my hunger was so great for God he filled my every thought ,(dreams) (daydreams) (visions) (my imagination was focused on Him) He even began to fill my heart , desire for movies (gone) video games (gone) sin (totally gone)
even things that arent sin were removed because I only wanted Him 24 / 7. Delight your self in the LORD and he will give you the desires of your heart , He gave me His desires and that was my hearts longing. I began to see the lost and wheep over them , I would walk up to strangers on the street and sing over them and they would tell me they feel the love of God. I went to the bums and outcasts and gave them my shoes and jacket and prayed for them , I was walking in His love , selfishness was GONE ,
THEN: I got married and had to learn another language to communicate with my inlaws , this began to take up much of my time , prayer decreased , bible study decreased , biblical type of encounters practically vanished, no more was my mind on God 24 / 7, but more like 1 hour a day and that a struggle. desire for movies (not a sin) videogames (not a sin) learning a language (not a sin) filled my life , and Jesus was left for Sunday and 1 hour daily devotions only.
thats where I am today, by restored I’m talking about returning to my first love 24 / 7. And having Him live through me daily.
God bless you , I prayed for you and Sean last night to be filled with Gods love , please pray for me too , I just want HIM.
Your typo “sin” is certainly forgiven as I’ve appreciated your grace in forgiving mine.
Regarding my statements of Todd’s relationship with his family and your responses to them, I was just answering your question regarding what I thought that he SHOULD do. I was not that he wasn’t doing it. Like you, I had also heard about the Disneyland trip with his children.
Generally, I have not been searching into his personal relationships too deeply since, as you say, it can lead to gossip. However, I had looked at this article that we’re commenting on because the marriage occured at the same time he claimed that he wanted to enter the restoration process to get back into ministry. In this particular instance, I thought that this was something that I should take note of.
The Apostle Paul asked the rhetorical question, “Shall we keep on sinning so that grace may abound?” This is what appeared to be happening with Todd at that time through his persistence in marrying the woman who was a factor in his marriage breakup.
For his children’s sake, I hope that you’re right and I hope that he continues to support them as a father should.
However, as I said, his personal relationships are not what concern me. My concern is what I’m hearing published from his ministry.
Sean:
hey thanks ,
My faith just increased for typing again, (or copy and paste)
The bible does say a minister (bishop) must have his house in order:
1 Timothy 3
4One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
Looks like God first , family second , and ministry last to me:
Maybe thats why the enemy targeted his family life , because that would roll out into his ministry, Sad but a powerful lesson to be learned.
Father Help Todd know the real Jesus close and centre, so that his family will come in order with your will , and the words out of his mouth will come forth grace and Truth , give him grace to recieve your truth , no matter how sharp it is . Grant it in Jesus name.
Hey , what happened to my post to Therese , did I say something wrong? please send it back to me in my email , or post it , I poured my heart out and even wept while I was writing it , It was just my restoration response to her. and I asked her to pray for me.
WOG – That’s happened to me a few times, a post just disappearing into cyberspace. Probably some computer glitch. Very frustrating, esp. when sweat and tears went into what you wrote! Maybe just try and re-write it, if you still feel inclined, but paste/save it elsewhere before hitting the “Submit” button…
Here’s a song you might enjoy Will of God, had me in tears yesterday:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pC1gnDHeeA
Grace Like Rain, by Todd Agnew
I think WOG’s comment is up. First time comments go into mod cue and any comment with a URL goes into mod cue even when the commenter is approved.
You wouldn’t believe the spam I get around NAR.
WOG – if you are concerned about comments not appearing email me.
Sad to hear of a Christian acting in this way. God is gracious, though! God help us to model marriage to a lost world out there…
I’ve studied the remarriage-is- adultery position over the past four months, after much distress, and I feel it is a very hurtful and unbiblical doctrine. I have fasted and prayed, cried and been very troubled by it. I lost weight thinking about it. The conclusions I’ve come to are a result of that searching and thinking and praying for the past few months. I am married to a man who was once married to an divorced woman;therefore, he would be labelled as one who had ‘repented’ from an ‘adulterous union’. We are married and happy.
Paul specifically addresses the ideal for Christian marriage in 1 Corinthians 7. The church in Corinth simply must have had to deal with new belivers who had come through divorces and almost certainly remarriages. If Paul had wanted anyone to renounce their marital status in such cases, he would have explicitly addressed this, considering his treatment of the marriage question was so detailed. Undoubtedly, some of the believers who were then married to unbelievers were probably in marriages with those who had also been divorced before marrying them; why did Paul not address this sort of situation? He tells them to stay married (Christians and those Christians in mixed marriages with unbelievers). Are we really to think that Paul would leave this point undone?
Think about this pragmatically: in those times, divorce was just as common and easily obtainable as it is now, if not more so. I imagine myself in the shoes of Paul, and what he would counsel someone who had been divorced perhaps up to even several times in a few short years, as was common in Graeco-Roman society. Imagine this person did not know where their ‘first’ spouse was; in those days if someone deserted, and went away, they would be nearly impossible to trace! Would Paul, according to the gospel of grace, counsel that person to divorce their current spouse on the basis of an unknown? How would that person know whether their first spouse was alive or not?
Marriage is not indissoluble, or else Jesus would not have warned against dissolving it(let not man put asunder). It can be dissolved, though it is a grave sin, tantamount to adultery, to plan to do it from hardness of heart,and especially to marry another. This is what I strongly believe Jesus was getting at. He is giving a hypothetical, for a start. ”Whosoever may divorce his wife and may marry another,commits adultery”.
No one can prove that ‘commits’ is a continuous present, and it doesn’t fit with the hypothetical in the future, of the ‘divorces’ and ‘marries another’. Jesus says this in Matthew 5:32 in the context of other hyperbolic statements about the matters of the heart and intentions. Looking at a woman to lust for her is adultery; divorcing your wife to marry another is adultery, and puts her in a position to become ‘defiled’ as per Deuteronomy 24, which is what ‘makes her commit adultery’ The adultery is the defilement of the woman,and the one flesh relationship that should have only gone on between the husband and her. He turns her into a prostitute in a sense, by treating her so cheaply.
The blame is on the one doing the divorcing, not the poor woman!
The one flesh relationship is not permanent, as it is possible to have that relationship with a prostitute, briefly, in fornication. The one flesh relationship should be in the context of a marriage. The vows make one married, but not one flesh for life. It SHOULD be that way, and I grieve that so many take it lightly…however, it’s hardness of heart we’re talking about.
I believe that Deuteronomy 24 has not been abrogated, as Christ would not have taught contrary to that law.It is for the hard of heart, which all of us without Christ are. Under Christ, divorce between two believers is practically unthinkable, because we should not be hard of heart. That still doesn’t change the fact that marriage CAN be sundered, though under grace, we are morally ‘bound’ to that law of love to our spouse for life.
Taken to its logical conclusion, anyone who comes to Christ who has been divorced,through no fault of their own in the past, and has no idea whether their previous spouse is alive or not, would be taught to stay celibate ‘just in case’, which is very fishy to me. It smacks of legalism and a desire to impose a penalty upon someone which is unjust. Celibacy is something that Paul said is a gift, not something to be enforced upon someone as a just dessert for having made a terrible mistake in the past. Because of the lack of pragmatism in saying that divorce doesn’t dissolve a marriage, especially before conversion, it is simply not an indissoluble union.It doesn’t make sense, if ‘one flesh’ can be said of a man and a prostitute. Vows make the marriage; these can be treacherously broken. Christ can forgive those things done in ignorance, and does not expect us to make amends by sundering another marriage to return to a previous one (which Deuteronomy prohibits for a reason; Jesus knew that divorce would be rampant today and I doubt, in relation to the law in Deuteronomy, that he would counsel someone remarried in ignorance to divorce again and go back to their original spouse. This would be an ‘abomination’).
Again, Paul doesn’t hint at telling those who had been remarried to get out of a current marriage; if it were important I trust he would have mentioned it. I also believe that he allowed for remarriage upon the desertion of an unbeliever. It would be foolish to expect them to come back under a time of persecution and want to be saved.That is why Paul asks ‘how do you know whether you will save your husband/wife?” He is asking this in the sense that it is unlikely they will be able to see that happen once they have left, as he already said that an unbeliever who STAYS with the believer may be sanctified by the believer. However, he is clearly stating the likely OPPOSITE outcome if the unbeliever goes. In those days, that meant divorce. I don’t believe Paul was calling the believing brothers and sisters into a situation where they would need to wait all their days for the unbelieving spouse to return, when others were able to have peaceful, God-honouring marriages. He stated that ‘in SUCH cases’, they are not ‘under bondage’, which is a stronger term than ‘bound’.
Anyway, I’m persuaded that those coming to faith who have been remarried are very wrongly counseled by those who teach that marriage is a universally permanent union, which cannot be dissolved but by death. That is the Christian ideal under the law of Christ, but for those ignorant of the law and who have been hurt by unjust divorce, it is something to hold to once saved and married. Hardness of heart still takes place, so I believe that God’s law in Deuteronomy still stands; divorce because of hardness of heart does not mean that the subsequent marriage is invalid, and the express prohibition of a spouse returning to the first spouse is still correct. It is simply tragic, and I daresay, evil to tell people to divorce and stay celibate, knowing their supposed ‘covenant’ spouse is probably an unbeliever, thereby blocking them from remarrying them anyway, under Paul’s prohibition. Malachi was talking to Jewish men who had divorced Jewish wives to marry prohibited foreign wives, and this was the breaking of covenant primarily addressed in Malachi 2, though it still serves as a commentary on the treachery of divorce in general.
I’m sorry to those hurt by the no remarriage promoters. I fully concur that divorce is wrong, but marriage isn’t inherently wrong. Those who break their promises are wrong, not the remarriage that results from hardness of heart. God help us to model the godly ideal that Christ calls those who are new creations into. Stay in your marriage and honour God. Do not submit to the bondage of those who say you cannot have peace with God until you have disobeyed Pau’s words and destroyed your current marriage. You know it doesn’t make sense, though your conscience has been violated: deep down you know it’s counter-intuitive and alien to the gospel of grace.
Blessings!
Thanks Bene – I’ve lost the odd comment *poof* that never came back – probably just as well – seemed to be my most long-winded ones! XO
Will of God – if you’re not tired of hearing from me yet, I feel like I’m flapping my gums an awful lot lately – just read your comment #180. Sorry I misunderstood you, I thought you were talking about restoration in a similar context as Todd B.
I know something of what you mean – I feel a quandary and a tension between living on this earth as a human being in this fleshly tent and being a spiritual child of God, since we are called and growing towards becoming His spiritual people. It seems when we come to faith in Christ there is a wonderful “honeymoon” period with the Lord, and the windows of heaven are wide open for us. Then after a while it’s as though life and our flesh drags us back down to planet earth, when we really would rather continue flying through the heavens. We are seated in heavenly places, our spirits are truly with God in the heavenly realm, and yet we are also living in the flesh on earth at the same time. I think maybe that tension won’t be fully resolved until Jesus comes, whatever that will entail.
The bible talks about “times of refreshing” from the Lord – there are times and seasons in our walk with the Lord, at least this is my understanding of the word and experience so far. He does send times of refreshing, both personal and coroporate (revivals) that don’t seem to be permanent, not because of God, but because that is the reality of fallen flesh, that we can’t seem to contain His glory for very long before something goes off the rails, either we begin to idolize the revival itself or flesh begins to copy what the Spirit is doing, or the devil takes advantage of the spiritual atmosphere to slip in his works of mischief, or life’s distractions or whatever the case may be.
Once the ‘honeymoon’ is over the Lord offers or gives each one of His children a cross to carry, because He said if we would follow Him we must take up our cross…which will crucify our fallen flesh nature (self). This is the part of the gospel that most of the church seems to have lost in this day we are living in – at least I had never heard it preached anywhere, the Lord showed me Himself. I think most of us have learned that when we receive Jesus, that that’s all there is to it, we’re in like flint, but there is more to salvation than that. The disciple’s cross is OUR part of the covenant with Jesus, we are invited to walk with Him THROUGH THE PIECES OF HIS FLESH – remember Abraham’s dream of the clay pot (flesh) with fire in it (spirit) – ie, walk with Him through His death, according to Hebrews 10:19-20:
“Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way opened for us THROUGH the curtain, that is HIS BODY.” Do you see that? Through His body, through His death.
the new and living way = the Way = the narrow path = the secret place where nothing can touch us = the disciple’s cross
(the secret place is not just our place of communion with the Lord, it is the cross, God’s secret weapon, and it’s a secret because so few find it)
I wish I had a testimony for you of coming all the way through, of my flesh being crucified once and for all, but I’m still struggling against those nails, every day my flesh rises up to complain and fight this cross I bear, often I wonder if I’ll ever “make it” – if I do it will only be by His strength and mercy – I can tell you with absolute assurance, there will be absolutely nothing I can point to in myself that helped me get “there”, that helped me overcome! “Myself” is the hindrance!
God bless you in your seeking after Him – thank you for your prayers, and yes, I will pray for you!
Thanks , 180 was my post Therese,
and a full 180 is my desire. For me and Bentley.
I love that song on Youtube , how some one took something old and made it better,
I remember in scripture I believe they used burnt stones to rebuild the temple as Nehemiah 4:2 suggests.
I do know God is making us into His living stones , And the fire of God will purify us and also burn up every work not of Him , so we can reflect His true nature to all creation.
David killed goliath with a stone , ,,,,
Jesus said to peter upon this rock I will build my church ,
that rock was the corner stone (Jesus the Christ) revealed by the father to Peter.
That’s what Jesus is building his church on , The revealing of Himself to us his church. But now also in us and through us For we are His living stones that cry out Hosanna (save US).
Amazing Grace how sweet the sound, His face I long to see ,
If He’d but show me his desire, my heart pants deep to deep,
one day when over, this world fades, I’ll receive my crown to lay,
Amazing grace how sweet the sound , before His feet I’ll stay.
….”Hallelujah….”! And amen, that’s beautiful Will of God.
http://sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=124
“The fear of the Lord”
I’m taking a typing fast , Above is full of piercing truths!
thanks for your prayers , believe it or not some posts took me 3 to 4 hours to type . You can understand why I need a break.
who are we to judge-there is only one judge.
pray instead, in the Holy Spirit for the man.
We are not judging Bentley, only God does that. However, it is God’s command that christian witnesses of his ministry must warn others to stay away from it because this ministry is based on sinful activities.
As you’ve asked, we continue to pray, in the Holy Spirit, for him.
So, are some of us judging Todd an others about what happened at Lakeland? Are we hypocritical, having a judgmental attitude? Are we tearing down the Todd of Lakeland to build ourselves up? Look at it this way, if a christian overlooks a wrong behavior of another christian, then where is the discerning of the negative behavior?
Jesus taught to expose false prophets. This is in the same chapter that he teaches on, “Do not judge others.” (Math. 7) Ok, Paul taught that we should exercise church discipline, then trust and let God be the F I N A L judge. (That’s in 1 Corinthians) Christian are in the fight to the death of oneself. Why, because we run the race to win the prize.
You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free,
The Truth isn’t just the bible , It’s the author of the bible,
I can quote you many scriptures about what I believe.
So can Jehovah witnesses, and Mormons.
I’m not free unless I’m in Jesus Christ , Neither is Todd B , Neither are you. Christ means oil or anointing , It was the Spirit behind His words.
Jesus Always spoke out of love , and He only said what He heard His Father speak ,This because God is love !
When did God tell you to Expose Todd Bentley , And how much love was behind His words?
Or did you just judge by the hearing of your ears and the seeing of your eyes?
Did God really show you?
please tell me how He Personally did?
Preacher,
The love behind God’s commands are far beyond what you can imagine. How much love was behind his commandments in Exodus 20?
To answer your question regarding how christians are to treat Todd Bentley and other false teachers and prophets, note some of the Lord’s commands in the scriptures:
Expose them
Deuteronomy 18:21-22
1 John 4:1
Isa. 8:20
Rev. 2:14-15
Mark and avoid them
Rom. 16:17
Rebuke them sharply
Titus 1:13
Have no fellowship with them
Eph. 5:11
2 Thess. 3:6
1 Tim. 6:3-5
2 Tim. 3:5-7
2 Tim. 4:2
Do not to receive them into your house
2 John 10-11
Titus 3: 10
Look out for those who preach another gospel
2 Cor. 11:4
2 Cor. 11: 13-15
Gal. 1:6-9
Keep separate from them
2 Cor. 6:17
Name names
Gal. 2:11-14
1 Tim. 1: 18-20
2 Tim. 2:15-18
2 Tim. 4:14-15
3 John 9-11
did you sin within the last year and still teach here? if so
the Lord commands in the scriptures:
Expose them
Deuteronomy 18:21-22
1 John 4:1
Isa. 8:20
Rev. 2:14-15
Mark and avoid them
Rom. 16:17
Rebuke them sharply
Titus 1:13
Have no fellowship with them
Eph. 5:11
2 Thess. 3:6
1 Tim. 6:3-5
2 Tim. 3:5-7
2 Tim. 4:2
Do not to receive them into your house
2 John 10-11
Titus 3: 10
Look out for those who preach another gospel
2 Cor. 11:4
2 Cor. 11: 13-15
Gal. 1:6-9
Keep separate from them
2 Cor. 6:17
Name names
Gal. 2:11-14
1 Tim. 1: 18-20
2 Tim. 2:15-18
2 Tim. 4:14-15
3 John 9-11
these scriptures must be applied to you according to your teaching,
unless of course you didn’t sin. before you point a finger , look in the mirror to see who’s really on the other end.
the measure you use is measured back to you!
the measure is the heart behind your teaching , If you want to expose him , you will be exposed before God and his angels as a false prophet if Todd has been forgiven. Since he already repented publicly and before God and man. (A prophet says what God is saying (NOW). Do you want to be called a liar? Then
when did God tell you to expose him?
or are you the false prophet (NOW)?
“The Kingdom of Heaven is like a farmer who planted good seed in his field. But that night as the workers slept, his enemy came and planted weeds among the wheat, then slipped away. When the crop began to grow and produce grain, the weeds also grew.” (Math. 13)
There is much more to this parable of the weeds. The jest of it is God’s haverst (judgement) of all people is coming. We are to make ourselves prepared, ensure that our faith is sincere. At the harvest the weeds will be thrown away. In the meantime the weeds remain, so the wheat is not uprooted.
My sincere prayer is that Mr. and Mrs. Bentley both take a good look at their lives, and all the lives they affect. This is for obvious reasons.
“Preacher”,
Your reply doesn’t seem to be full of the “love” you were just preaching to us in your earlier comment. Something seems to have touched a nerve.
Since I never ever claimed to prophesy, then the accusation that I am a false prophet is indeed false. Feel free to try to find any such claim that you think I made, you won’t find it. So far God’s commands have all come to me through scripture. God inspired the scripture writers, and I read and obeyed. Pretty simple.
You’ve just made a claim about Bentley’s repentance. Has he repented for the false prophesy, the false teaching, false healings and false resurrections?
Any comments I made here or anywhere else that were sinful, I am perfectly willing to confess and repent of them. I’m also willing to give back all of the money that I’ve made in my ministry. Is Bentley and Joyner willing to do the same? Are you?
Bentley’s ’spirit of beligerance’ seems to have infected his followers – I’ve seen this attitude many times from his supporters. I wonder why his supporting false prophets don’t try to cast this spirit out of him instead of ‘lifting off’ non-existent curses. I think he has them all wrapped around his little finger.
His drunkenness, adultery, divorce and remarriage to his mistress are just small potatoes compared to how he is leading people astray of the true gospel and infecting them with evil spirits. These unholy aspects of his life that have been exposed in the providence of God are just the tip of the iceberg warning us of the worse dangers that lurk below the surface. But the foolish ones still can’t see it – they’re out of touch with reality, ie, deceived.
I think about the love of God for the sheep that Bentley is leading to their destruction – we never hear Bentley’s defenders expressing any concern for them – and of course it’s because they are deceived and oblivious to the danger.
“Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.” Eph. 5:11
What is the church for, if not to shine a light into the darkness?
Sean
My statements may not have looked like love to you, but I had a 48 hour visitation from the Holy Spirit after I read Pastor Andrew’s email ,
I was broken before God because of the division in His body , and I wept over you , Yet not I but Christ in me,,, still love me?
I woke up at 3am in tears and didn’t go back to sleep that night , all I could think about was you being right Before God.
This is beyond Todd and Andrew , Look past the curtain of man and see through the eyes of Jesus.
Thank you Therese for your Hug.
You were right , I found Jesus through suffering , I found God through the Cross , I experienced a grieved spirit yet love unspeakable for hours, His love was the foundation my prayers. I hope you understand my position. Will you take the same and STAND IN THE GAP with me?
Susan
My sincere prayer Is that we let Jesus take a look at all of our lives and we look through His eyes. And if we said anything wrong , may He forgive us as we “PRAY” not “PREY” for our wounded brothers and sisters in Him , for this is the Will of God:)
Preacher,
Let’s get to the truth of scripture and examine your argument.
You have used the situation described in John 8 to declare that we should ignore Bentley’s activities and carry on because since we’ve all sinned, we should not point out the sins that are committed by others.
Jesus used the phrase, “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” Jesus never denied that the woman was an adulteress. His statement regarded the justification of (literally) stoning her. In fact, Jesus commanded the woman to stop sinning.
Just as the woman was labeled as an adulteress, Bentley’s ministry is labeled for what it is. Your argument is shown to be wrong. If I were advocating people to inflict physical punishment, then it might have some merit. However, to argue against warning people about this false ministry has no merit at all, and it disobeys God’s scriptural commands.
What to do about it? Men should be warned to steer clear of an adulteress (and believe me, they do exist) and these types of temptations. People must continue to be warned to steer clear of Bentley’s ministry. This IS God’s command as stated throughout scripture, several of which have been noted. This IS the true will of God.
Several of us have expressed compassion for what you have been going through. However, this can never be an excuse to compromise on the truth.
We continue to pray for you, and we continue to pray for Bentley.
Sean,
You well know by know that my view point is just to pray for the body of Christ , God never told me to expose any ministry or person . Just to pray that’s all.
If you believe God has called you to expose ministers, You’d better obey God. But if you took this upon yourself , and built this expose ministry outside of Christ’s will , Your work will be burned , and you will have to answer to God for every accusation, not man.
Also if God really has forgiven Todd , then Jesus really has set him free! Who are we to throw condemnation back on him?
Yes the damage is done , but if I really know God , He can bring forth beauty from ashes , and in psalm 23 He can restore a soul.
I didn’t ignore the sin , neither did God . That was God’s mercy !! I believe the sin’s have been dealt with the best he knows how, Yet Todd is still paying the price for them. Put your self in his shoes and you’ll understand Suffering. And God’s mercy.
Sean,
You well know by know that my view point is just to pray for the body of Christ , God never told me to expose any ministry or person . Just to pray that’s all.
If you believe God has called you to expose ministers, You’d better obey God. But if you took this upon yourself , and built this expose ministry outside of Christ’s will , Your work will be burned , and you will have to answer to God for every accusation, not man.
Also if God really has forgiven Todd , then Jesus really has set him free! Who are we to throw condemnation back on him?
Yes the damage is done , but if I really know God , He can bring forth beauty from ashes , and in psalm 23 He can restore a soul.
I didn’t ignore the sin , neither did God . That was God’s mercy !! I believe the sin’s have been dealt with the best he knows how, Yet Todd is still paying the price for them. Put your self in his shoes and you’ll understand Suffering. And God’s mercy.
PS: this is a re post (word muncher strikes again??)
“…to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up UNTIL we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.” Eph. 4:13
We need the whole counsel of God on all matters – it is only possible to have unity insofar as we are united in the knowledge of the Son of God and are mature, having attained to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. It is simply not possible for believers with any level of spiritual maturity to have unity and agreement with such as Todd Bentley, and we will not achieve complete unity in the church until we all attain to the full measure of Christ. But we will never achieve the kind of unity that Christ is after at the expense of truth and at the expense of countless souls who are being led astray. I’m suspicious of the spirit that visited Preacher if he or it does not also grieve for those sheep who follow Todd Bentley, believe his false teachings, his false prophecies, and receive of his evil spirits and are in danger of hell.
Do you know that God is still a God of justice? He has set out conditions for obtaining mercy – it is not free, as is wrongly preached all over the place, it cost Jesus and it costs us as well, and for this reason we are told in scripture to count the cost. Todd Bentley is not paying the price – he is serving his own flesh and disobeying God by continuing to minister. The Lord has warned, rebuked, and disciplined this man through exposure (though his handlers failed to take up the discipline and follow it through). I’ll say again, his outward sins are only the signposts pointing to the rotten foundations of his ministry. It should be scandalous to any real believer that such a person be accepted behind a pulpit in the church. He needs a spiritual spanking and to be sent to go sit in a corner somewhere, and people need to be warned to have nothing to do with him – that’s just the unfortunate reality of the situation.
If anyone truly is concerned Todd’s spiritual welfare, that is what must be done according to 1 Cor. 5:5 – “…hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.” That’s not just a theory, that is literally what needs to be done for Todd’s sake and the church’s, and I am grieved this has not been carried out. Why? Because people prefer their own mushy-gushy theories of what God’s love is like, instead of the truth. At the bottom of humanistic, sentimental, bleeding heart ideas is SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS – and I can say that as one who constantly has to fight this same kind of sentimentality, (not always with success, I confess, yet the battle rages on and I sometimes feel a bit schizophrenic, in the popular sense of the word.) But isn’t it just foolish to elevate our own ideas above the thoughts of the almighty, omniscient God? And He is able to give us understanding and wisdom of His ways and conform our mnds to the mind of Christ – we don’t have to blindly follow.
“HAND THIS MAN OVER TO SATAN, SO THAT THE SINFUL NATURE MAY BE DESTROYED AND HIS SPIRIT SAVED ON THE DAY OF THE LORD.” If anyone professes to have any love for Todd, he’ll agree that this is necessary for Todd’s salvation, unless he also partakes of Todd’s deception.
I feel so sorry for Todd, that he has never known the security of feeling a loving father’s restraining arms around him, saying, “This far and no farther, son, I will not let you carry on in this self-destructive way.” Of all places, he should have been able to find the discipline he so badly needs in the church – but the church is failing him. I often feel as angry at those around him as I am at him.
Preacher,
Do you think I’m preying? Is Todd defenseless, fallen in an attack, or a victim? Maybe I’m not able to discern his actions, or am I? Just maybe it’s time to put our prayers into action. After all, should we just sit around all day and pray our thoughts. Jesus’ life and teachings included both prayer and action.
There is something in life called constructive criticism. I think we who love Jesus are trying hard through this mess to have a compassionate attitude. After all, that’s what love does.
Thanks Bene D for allowing me to voice my concerns. Many thanks!
Susan
I wasn’t saying that you were “preying” I was talking about US the body of Christ, If we attack and devour one another in the name of holiness, and slay the other while down on the ground , then give a heartless prayer to God in the end. (This doesn’t look like Jesus to me.)
Therese
You’d do well to question my experience with God , Just question Him yourself and He will tell you the truth. If you go running to man for revelation , you will get a filtered answer , and some filters need to be cleaned.
I’m not as concerned for Todd’s spiritual welfare any more , I’m past that point now, I gave him over to Jesus , you can try to hand him over to satan if you want , But I don’t think any one can pluck him out of Gods hands. please don’t misunderstand me.
“I’m not as concerned for Todd’s spiritual welfare any more , I’m past that point now, I gave him over to Jesus , you can try to hand him over to satan if you want , But I don’t think any one can pluck him out of Gods hands.”
Why do you think these two courses are mutually exclusive? They are not. Should we pray and then proceed to mock and dismiss the word of God, thinking that because we prayed, we are free to disobey clear biblical instruction? Does prayer nullify His word? But anyway, Preacher/WoG, I’m sincerely glad to hear you’ve given your burden over to the Lord.
The Army of Light
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c21JyW61IAk
1st minute
No thank you, Preacher/Will of God – one minute was about all I needed to realize I want nothing to do with that new age dreamer’s ideas. (Army of Light?? I can find no mention of an army of light in the bible.) Yes, we wrestle not with flesh and blood, but apparently the word of God has other things to say about flesh as well – there is the whole counsel of God to be received on that and other subjects, by those who love the truth. Jesus Christ came in the flesh – one thing that tells me is that His feet touched the ground, and so should ours. (In the context of testing spirits I find that very helpful!)
…just saw this in 2 Cor.11:19-20 – the context is false apostles masquerading as apostles of Christ, and the devil masquerading as an angel of light (v.13-15). Paul is sarcastically admonishing the believers:
“You gladly put up with fools since you are so wise! In fact, you even put up with anyone who enslaves you or pushes himself forward or slaps you in the face.”
….sorry, missed some important bits, let me quote that again:
“You gladly put up with fools since you are so wise! In fact you even put up with anyone who enslaves you or exploits you or takes advantage of you or pushes himself forward or slaps you in the face.” 2 Cor. 11:19-20
That tells us not to put up with such people – we have to deal with them, not just pray for them! Hope that ministers to anyone out there, as it does me.
Will of God – if you peek back in here, this podcast came to my inbox yesterday by seeming cooincidence, and after listening to it today, I would like to pass it along to you – think you would enjoy it – an informal living room chat about Ephesians. 5 and how in order to be imitators of God, and be pleasing to Him, we are to be like children of light by exposing darkness, exposing sin. “Imitating to Expose the Underworld”
http://www.flashfloods.com/home/media/podcast-emm-apc.html#podcast
A pure stream for you to drink from, young brother, hope you will kick back for just under 50 minutes and have a listen and see what you think, with your Bible open to Eph. 5 – and I would even encourage you to e-mail this fellow, he’s very approachable – Scott Holtz (he’s Jewish and lives in Israel), his ministry is at www. flashfloods .com – he is a real father in the faith, real, humble, and does not elevate himself above his listeners. XO (from Therese)
I still NEVER got a response to what Todd did with all the money he stole from the Body under falsehood. How come NO ONE is addressing that. Now he is having NEW outpourings, which will gain more money for himself and Morning Star. I simply pray the Body has discernment and those so hungry for the supernatural will not fall into being fooled, AGAIN. The supernatural can happen in your own home. You don’t have to pay money to get “the experience” under a questionable character. This seems to be more of a show then a true intimate relationship with God. His power is there for all. Let’s not make ministers (and I use that lightly) celebrities who hold special power. We all hold God’s power.
Hello WOG/Preacher,
I’m sorry for taking so long. It’s been a busy week.
I think that Therese and Susan have addressed this issue far better than I could have.
However, you addressed some personal issues back in 203/204 which I will address:
“If you believe God has called you to expose ministers, You’d better obey God. But if you took this upon yourself , and built this expose ministry outside of Christ’s will , Your work will be burned , and you will have to answer to God for every accusation, not man.”
If you knew me well, you would know that I am incredibly lazy and I would not take on anything myself. God has indeed called me (through commands in scripture) and all christian witnesses to warn people of false ministries and point them towards the truth. My laziness is one of my many sins. However, to ignore these commands of God would have been a serious sin.
The first sentence of your quote is accurate.
One more thing:
I’m not very worried about my “work will be burned …” (these comments?)
The real concern is the burning of souls who become deceived when it’s my duty (by God’s command) to warn them.
Does it, after all, matter what I think? Does it matter what any of us *think*? What matters is what GOD thinks — and what God knows. What God knows about Todd and what God knows about each person reading this.
When Jesus prepared for ministry, he spent His whole life doing it. Out of all his time on earth, He spent 3 years in ministry. When His mother tried to push Him out ahead of schedule, He told her it was not yet time. God has a time — and when we get out ahead of His timing for our lives, it is invariable that in our spiritual infancy and pride that our diapers will fall off in full view of the public.
So many people seek to attain position… little realizing that GOD is the one who promotes… when you seek to promote yourself, pride steps in and as the Word says… it comes before your fall. Then the Bible tells us that those who are SPIRITUAL (mature) are to restore such a one. Restore them to what? I don’t think that seeking to restore someone to ‘ministry’ should be the goal. Seeking to restore them to God… now there you go.
Honestly, I went to Morningstar’s website and I watched, for only a few minutes, the videos with Todd and Jessa – and I just felt sick. Something is not right… I’m not going to try to put my finger on it because that isn’t my place. God will deal with His own household and He hasn’t asked me for my help. I think a thorough reading in Romans chapter 2 should make each of us look at ourselves. I have no desire to judge Todd Bentley or Rick Joyner for that matter. Why? Because the same level of intensity that I judge Todd, Jesus stated very clearly that He will judge me. Now, some of you wonderful folk might think you’re walking on water and you’re willing to take your chances. I’m not. I know I have a long way to go.
Kristan,
By your criterion, your accusation that people who criticize Bentley’s ministry are judgmental is itself judgmental.
What we have is a collection of the following facts:
1. Bentley’s teachings and “prophetic” visions as publicized by his books, what he’s written on the web, and recorded from his meetings. These have been recorded and shown to be in conflict with God’s Holy Word, the Bible.
2. None of Bentley’s claims of healing have been proven. Given his fantastic claims, there would be some tangible evidence but there is none of a real miraculous healing of God facilitated by Bentley. In fact, there is evidence that several of Bentley’s claimed healings were false.
3. Bentley’s infidelity and current marrital situation make him unfit for ministry according to God’s Word.
Given these facts and God’s command to warn people of false prophets and false teachers, we are not taking chances.
Most of us are not judging Bentley or declaring which direction God will send him. However, we are looking at his ungodly ministry and warning people to stay away from it as God has commanded us to do so.
We are called to be discerning not judgmental. I am tired of hearing that anyone who has first hand seen the deception and relaunching is “judging Todd”. Speaking the truth so no one else is disillusioned or hurt is part of our responsibility. Hiding the truth and using conferences for gain, because people are hungry for the supernatural, will be judged by God. It is however our responsibility to expose stealing, deception, and sweeping sin under the rug. I am not judgmental, just honest. So many have been hurt. Let’s worry about them, not Todd. He is just a man.
Hey Rose,
You forgot one verse Mercy Triumphs Over Judgement ! Amen
God’s mercy sometimes hurts, just like His love.
It doesn’t matter if I’M judgemental. What matter is what GOD says about ministry.
Timothy 3:2-7 “an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife.” (Also in Titus 1:6) I also think Timothy 3:4-5 speaks to this well when Paul says, “he must manage his own household well… for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God’s church?”
The Grace of the gospel enables us to overcome even the most sinful background, but the Bible also speaks of holding Pastors to a higher standard than others. Is Todd Bentley “above reproach”? I believe his actions, with his previous wife and children in mind, would clearly mark him as one that is NOT above reproach. He has sullied the position of Pastor that God holds accountable. He has committed adultery and abandoned his wife and children, and those disgraces should not be allowed back into a position of ministry.
http://joiepirkey.wordpress.com/
There is another article posted on Todd and sin in the church. Lots of buzz.
Seems like so many people are interested in judging others. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. We are all sinners and all Christians should be eager to pray for and uplift one another. I think it’s especially important to pray for someone when you feel like judging him/her. By the way, I’ve met this newlywed couple and the way they shine with the love of God has truly inspired me.
A friend,
I’m a christian. However, I would not be allowed to leave my husband, divorce my husband, marry the other man, then set up my pulpit, start preaching again, and claim healings in the name of Jesus. I’ll tell you why. It’s not biblical sound scripture. I’m truly not throwing a stone, just trying to make a point. Sorry to be so direct, but it’s in God’s word, and that’s what I try to live by.
It want matter how kind, good, wonderful, giving , or any other adjective we could come up with, that can change God’s word. It all boils down to sin. I can forgive Todd, Jessa, Rick and all the others for their part in this mess. It’s just they are missing the mark on true restoration here.
I’m really unbiased when I say these things. It’s to help other christians see there is a better way.