Well, sort of. Yes, he re-married last week, he has his new trophy wife Jessa, who unlike the new ex Mrs. Bentley hasn’t had bone cancer and 3 kids.Â
When news of the marriage leaked on the weekend, his step-mom put her two cents worth in, now Rick Joyner has made his grand announcement. (see post below also)
It appears Darcia Bentley’s ’newsflash’ of yesterday at Sound of Fire Productions has been taken down and Rick Joyner’s ‘special bulletin’ has been put in it’s place. Mrs. Bentley’s ‘newsflash1′ can be found in Google cache and posted in full under – more in the post below, there is a long history of Bentley sites being scrubbed.
Bentley’s ‘restoration’ has begun with a newsflash from step mom and special bulletin from Joyner. What Todd had to say was sandwiched between his apostle handler Joyner’s copious words. Here is what the MorningStar pr team helped Todd Bentley put together.
It has been a long while since I have spoken publicly and openly. I am sorry for the hurt and confusion that my decisions have caused the body of Christ. It has been a true season of brokenness, hiddenness, and a long process of grieving.
As many of you now know, my previous marriage has endured years of unresolved conflicts. I apologize that it has ended in divorce, and I take full responsibility for my part for the ending of the marriage. I realize that my silence and decisions have caused many of you to feel hurt, confused, and offended. The reason for the silence was for my need of healing, creating a restoration process under a team of qualified leaders, much needed rest after the Lakeland Outpouring, repentance, and the divorce process.
I have now relocated to Fort Mill, South Carolina and have entered into my restoration and healing process under Rick Joyner, Jack Deere, and Bill Johnson. I am confident of this one thing—that God is faithful to His promise and my hope is to be fully restored, strengthened, healed, and to learn from all the mistakes I have made along the way.
Thank you friends and partners for your continued prayers, encouragement, and love. I am committed to the work of the Holy Spirit and confident that the good men around me will help me be restored first as a man, as a husband, and ultimately to fulfill God’s call on my life.
Â
Sean
My statements may not have looked like love to you, but I had a 48 hour visitation from the Holy Spirit after I read Pastor Andrew’s email ,
I was broken before God because of the division in His body , and I wept over you , Yet not I but Christ in me,,, still love me?
I woke up at 3am in tears and didn’t go back to sleep that night , all I could think about was you being right Before God.
This is beyond Todd and Andrew , Look past the curtain of man and see through the eyes of Jesus.
Thank you Therese for your Hug.
You were right , I found Jesus through suffering , I found God through the Cross , I experienced a grieved spirit yet love unspeakable for hours, His love was the foundation my prayers. I hope you understand my position. Will you take the same and STAND IN THE GAP with me?
Susan
My sincere prayer Is that we let Jesus take a look at all of our lives and we look through His eyes. And if we said anything wrong , may He forgive us as we “PRAY” not “PREY” for our wounded brothers and sisters in Him , for this is the Will of God:)
Preacher,
Let’s get to the truth of scripture and examine your argument.
You have used the situation described in John 8 to declare that we should ignore Bentley’s activities and carry on because since we’ve all sinned, we should not point out the sins that are committed by others.
Jesus used the phrase, “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.†Jesus never denied that the woman was an adulteress. His statement regarded the justification of (literally) stoning her. In fact, Jesus commanded the woman to stop sinning.
Just as the woman was labeled as an adulteress, Bentley’s ministry is labeled for what it is. Your argument is shown to be wrong. If I were advocating people to inflict physical punishment, then it might have some merit. However, to argue against warning people about this false ministry has no merit at all, and it disobeys God’s scriptural commands.
What to do about it? Men should be warned to steer clear of an adulteress (and believe me, they do exist) and these types of temptations. People must continue to be warned to steer clear of Bentley’s ministry. This IS God’s command as stated throughout scripture, several of which have been noted. This IS the true will of God.
Several of us have expressed compassion for what you have been going through. However, this can never be an excuse to compromise on the truth.
We continue to pray for you, and we continue to pray for Bentley.
Sean,
You well know by know that my view point is just to pray for the body of Christ , God never told me to expose any ministry or person . Just to pray that’s all.
If you believe God has called you to expose ministers, You’d better obey God. But if you took this upon yourself , and built this expose ministry outside of Christ’s will , Your work will be burned , and you will have to answer to God for every accusation, not man.
Also if God really has forgiven Todd , then Jesus really has set him free! Who are we to throw condemnation back on him?
Yes the damage is done , but if I really know God , He can bring forth beauty from ashes , and in psalm 23 He can restore a soul.
I didn’t ignore the sin , neither did God . That was God’s mercy !! I believe the sin’s have been dealt with the best he knows how, Yet Todd is still paying the price for them. Put your self in his shoes and you’ll understand Suffering. And God’s mercy.
Sean,
You well know by know that my view point is just to pray for the body of Christ , God never told me to expose any ministry or person . Just to pray that’s all.
If you believe God has called you to expose ministers, You’d better obey God. But if you took this upon yourself , and built this expose ministry outside of Christ’s will , Your work will be burned , and you will have to answer to God for every accusation, not man.
Also if God really has forgiven Todd , then Jesus really has set him free! Who are we to throw condemnation back on him?
Yes the damage is done , but if I really know God , He can bring forth beauty from ashes , and in psalm 23 He can restore a soul.
I didn’t ignore the sin , neither did God . That was God’s mercy !! I believe the sin’s have been dealt with the best he knows how, Yet Todd is still paying the price for them. Put your self in his shoes and you’ll understand Suffering. And God’s mercy.
PS: this is a re post (word muncher strikes again??)
“…to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up UNTIL we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.” Eph. 4:13
We need the whole counsel of God on all matters – it is only possible to have unity insofar as we are united in the knowledge of the Son of God and are mature, having attained to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. It is simply not possible for believers with any level of spiritual maturity to have unity and agreement with such as Todd Bentley, and we will not achieve complete unity in the church until we all attain to the full measure of Christ. But we will never achieve the kind of unity that Christ is after at the expense of truth and at the expense of countless souls who are being led astray. I’m suspicious of the spirit that visited Preacher if he or it does not also grieve for those sheep who follow Todd Bentley, believe his false teachings, his false prophecies, and receive of his evil spirits and are in danger of hell.
Do you know that God is still a God of justice? He has set out conditions for obtaining mercy – it is not free, as is wrongly preached all over the place, it cost Jesus and it costs us as well, and for this reason we are told in scripture to count the cost. Todd Bentley is not paying the price – he is serving his own flesh and disobeying God by continuing to minister. The Lord has warned, rebuked, and disciplined this man through exposure (though his handlers failed to take up the discipline and follow it through). I’ll say again, his outward sins are only the signposts pointing to the rotten foundations of his ministry. It should be scandalous to any real believer that such a person be accepted behind a pulpit in the church. He needs a spiritual spanking and to be sent to go sit in a corner somewhere, and people need to be warned to have nothing to do with him – that’s just the unfortunate reality of the situation.
If anyone truly is concerned Todd’s spiritual welfare, that is what must be done according to 1 Cor. 5:5 – “…hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.” That’s not just a theory, that is literally what needs to be done for Todd’s sake and the church’s, and I am grieved this has not been carried out. Why? Because people prefer their own mushy-gushy theories of what God’s love is like, instead of the truth. At the bottom of humanistic, sentimental, bleeding heart ideas is SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS – and I can say that as one who constantly has to fight this same kind of sentimentality, (not always with success, I confess, yet the battle rages on and I sometimes feel a bit schizophrenic, in the popular sense of the word.) But isn’t it just foolish to elevate our own ideas above the thoughts of the almighty, omniscient God? And He is able to give us understanding and wisdom of His ways and conform our mnds to the mind of Christ – we don’t have to blindly follow.
“HAND THIS MAN OVER TO SATAN, SO THAT THE SINFUL NATURE MAY BE DESTROYED AND HIS SPIRIT SAVED ON THE DAY OF THE LORD.” If anyone professes to have any love for Todd, he’ll agree that this is necessary for Todd’s salvation, unless he also partakes of Todd’s deception.
I feel so sorry for Todd, that he has never known the security of feeling a loving father’s restraining arms around him, saying, “This far and no farther, son, I will not let you carry on in this self-destructive way.” Of all places, he should have been able to find the discipline he so badly needs in the church – but the church is failing him. I often feel as angry at those around him as I am at him.
Preacher,
Do you think I’m preying? Is Todd defenseless, fallen in an attack, or a victim? Maybe I’m not able to discern his actions, or am I? Just maybe it’s time to put our prayers into action. After all, should we just sit around all day and pray our thoughts. Jesus’ life and teachings included both prayer and action.
There is something in life called constructive criticism. I think we who love Jesus are trying hard through this mess to have a compassionate attitude. After all, that’s what love does.
Thanks Bene D for allowing me to voice my concerns. Many thanks!
Susan
I wasn’t saying that you were “preying” I was talking about US the body of Christ, If we attack and devour one another in the name of holiness, and slay the other while down on the ground , then give a heartless prayer to God in the end. (This doesn’t look like Jesus to me.)
Therese
You’d do well to question my experience with God , Just question Him yourself and He will tell you the truth. If you go running to man for revelation , you will get a filtered answer , and some filters need to be cleaned.
I’m not as concerned for Todd’s spiritual welfare any more , I’m past that point now, I gave him over to Jesus , you can try to hand him over to satan if you want , But I don’t think any one can pluck him out of Gods hands. please don’t misunderstand me.
“I’m not as concerned for Todd’s spiritual welfare any more , I’m past that point now, I gave him over to Jesus , you can try to hand him over to satan if you want , But I don’t think any one can pluck him out of Gods hands.”
Why do you think these two courses are mutually exclusive? They are not. Should we pray and then proceed to mock and dismiss the word of God, thinking that because we prayed, we are free to disobey clear biblical instruction? Does prayer nullify His word? But anyway, Preacher/WoG, I’m sincerely glad to hear you’ve given your burden over to the Lord.
The Army of Light
1st minute
No thank you, Preacher/Will of God – one minute was about all I needed to realize I want nothing to do with that new age dreamer’s ideas. (Army of Light?? I can find no mention of an army of light in the bible.) Yes, we wrestle not with flesh and blood, but apparently the word of God has other things to say about flesh as well – there is the whole counsel of God to be received on that and other subjects, by those who love the truth. Jesus Christ came in the flesh – one thing that tells me is that His feet touched the ground, and so should ours. (In the context of testing spirits I find that very helpful!)
…just saw this in 2 Cor.11:19-20 – the context is false apostles masquerading as apostles of Christ, and the devil masquerading as an angel of light (v.13-15). Paul is sarcastically admonishing the believers:
“You gladly put up with fools since you are so wise! In fact, you even put up with anyone who enslaves you or pushes himself forward or slaps you in the face.”
….sorry, missed some important bits, let me quote that again:
“You gladly put up with fools since you are so wise! In fact you even put up with anyone who enslaves you or exploits you or takes advantage of you or pushes himself forward or slaps you in the face.” 2 Cor. 11:19-20
That tells us not to put up with such people – we have to deal with them, not just pray for them! Hope that ministers to anyone out there, as it does me.
Will of God – if you peek back in here, this podcast came to my inbox yesterday by seeming cooincidence, and after listening to it today, I would like to pass it along to you – think you would enjoy it – an informal living room chat about Ephesians. 5 and how in order to be imitators of God, and be pleasing to Him, we are to be like children of light by exposing darkness, exposing sin. “Imitating to Expose the Underworld”
http://www.flashfloods.com/home/media/podcast-emm-apc.html#podcast
A pure stream for you to drink from, young brother, hope you will kick back for just under 50 minutes and have a listen and see what you think, with your Bible open to Eph. 5 – and I would even encourage you to e-mail this fellow, he’s very approachable – Scott Holtz (he’s Jewish and lives in Israel), his ministry is at www. flashfloods .com – he is a real father in the faith, real, humble, and does not elevate himself above his listeners. XO (from Therese)
I still NEVER got a response to what Todd did with all the money he stole from the Body under falsehood. How come NO ONE is addressing that. Now he is having NEW outpourings, which will gain more money for himself and Morning Star. I simply pray the Body has discernment and those so hungry for the supernatural will not fall into being fooled, AGAIN. The supernatural can happen in your own home. You don’t have to pay money to get “the experience” under a questionable character. This seems to be more of a show then a true intimate relationship with God. His power is there for all. Let’s not make ministers (and I use that lightly) celebrities who hold special power. We all hold God’s power.
Hello WOG/Preacher,
I’m sorry for taking so long. It’s been a busy week.
I think that Therese and Susan have addressed this issue far better than I could have.
However, you addressed some personal issues back in 203/204 which I will address:
“If you believe God has called you to expose ministers, You’d better obey God. But if you took this upon yourself , and built this expose ministry outside of Christ’s will , Your work will be burned , and you will have to answer to God for every accusation, not man.”
If you knew me well, you would know that I am incredibly lazy and I would not take on anything myself. God has indeed called me (through commands in scripture) and all christian witnesses to warn people of false ministries and point them towards the truth. My laziness is one of my many sins. However, to ignore these commands of God would have been a serious sin.
The first sentence of your quote is accurate.
One more thing:
I’m not very worried about my “work will be burned …” (these comments?)
The real concern is the burning of souls who become deceived when it’s my duty (by God’s command) to warn them.
Does it, after all, matter what I think? Does it matter what any of us *think*? What matters is what GOD thinks — and what God knows. What God knows about Todd and what God knows about each person reading this.
When Jesus prepared for ministry, he spent His whole life doing it. Out of all his time on earth, He spent 3 years in ministry. When His mother tried to push Him out ahead of schedule, He told her it was not yet time. God has a time — and when we get out ahead of His timing for our lives, it is invariable that in our spiritual infancy and pride that our diapers will fall off in full view of the public.
So many people seek to attain position… little realizing that GOD is the one who promotes… when you seek to promote yourself, pride steps in and as the Word says… it comes before your fall. Then the Bible tells us that those who are SPIRITUAL (mature) are to restore such a one. Restore them to what? I don’t think that seeking to restore someone to ‘ministry’ should be the goal. Seeking to restore them to God… now there you go.
Honestly, I went to Morningstar’s website and I watched, for only a few minutes, the videos with Todd and Jessa – and I just felt sick. Something is not right… I’m not going to try to put my finger on it because that isn’t my place. God will deal with His own household and He hasn’t asked me for my help. I think a thorough reading in Romans chapter 2 should make each of us look at ourselves. I have no desire to judge Todd Bentley or Rick Joyner for that matter. Why? Because the same level of intensity that I judge Todd, Jesus stated very clearly that He will judge me. Now, some of you wonderful folk might think you’re walking on water and you’re willing to take your chances. I’m not. I know I have a long way to go.
Kristan,
By your criterion, your accusation that people who criticize Bentley’s ministry are judgmental is itself judgmental.
What we have is a collection of the following facts:
1. Bentley’s teachings and “prophetic” visions as publicized by his books, what he’s written on the web, and recorded from his meetings. These have been recorded and shown to be in conflict with God’s Holy Word, the Bible.
2. None of Bentley’s claims of healing have been proven. Given his fantastic claims, there would be some tangible evidence but there is none of a real miraculous healing of God facilitated by Bentley. In fact, there is evidence that several of Bentley’s claimed healings were false.
3. Bentley’s infidelity and current marrital situation make him unfit for ministry according to God’s Word.
Given these facts and God’s command to warn people of false prophets and false teachers, we are not taking chances.
Most of us are not judging Bentley or declaring which direction God will send him. However, we are looking at his ungodly ministry and warning people to stay away from it as God has commanded us to do so.
We are called to be discerning not judgmental. I am tired of hearing that anyone who has first hand seen the deception and relaunching is “judging Todd”. Speaking the truth so no one else is disillusioned or hurt is part of our responsibility. Hiding the truth and using conferences for gain, because people are hungry for the supernatural, will be judged by God. It is however our responsibility to expose stealing, deception, and sweeping sin under the rug. I am not judgmental, just honest. So many have been hurt. Let’s worry about them, not Todd. He is just a man.
Hey Rose,
You forgot one verse Mercy Triumphs Over Judgement ! Amen
God’s mercy sometimes hurts, just like His love.
It doesn’t matter if I’M judgemental. What matter is what GOD says about ministry.
Timothy 3:2-7 “an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife.” (Also in Titus 1:6) I also think Timothy 3:4-5 speaks to this well when Paul says, “he must manage his own household well… for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God’s church?â€
The Grace of the gospel enables us to overcome even the most sinful background, but the Bible also speaks of holding Pastors to a higher standard than others. Is Todd Bentley “above reproach”? I believe his actions, with his previous wife and children in mind, would clearly mark him as one that is NOT above reproach. He has sullied the position of Pastor that God holds accountable. He has committed adultery and abandoned his wife and children, and those disgraces should not be allowed back into a position of ministry.
http://joiepirkey.wordpress.com/
There is another article posted on Todd and sin in the church. Lots of buzz.
Seems like so many people are interested in judging others. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. We are all sinners and all Christians should be eager to pray for and uplift one another. I think it’s especially important to pray for someone when you feel like judging him/her. By the way, I’ve met this newlywed couple and the way they shine with the love of God has truly inspired me.
A friend,
I’m a christian. However, I would not be allowed to leave my husband, divorce my husband, marry the other man, then set up my pulpit, start preaching again, and claim healings in the name of Jesus. I’ll tell you why. It’s not biblical sound scripture. I’m truly not throwing a stone, just trying to make a point. Sorry to be so direct, but it’s in God’s word, and that’s what I try to live by.
It want matter how kind, good, wonderful, giving , or any other adjective we could come up with, that can change God’s word. It all boils down to sin. I can forgive Todd, Jessa, Rick and all the others for their part in this mess. It’s just they are missing the mark on true restoration here.
I’m really unbiased when I say these things. It’s to help other christians see there is a better way.
A Friend,
That’s not love you see shinning from their faces. That’s the pleasurable part of sin. The Bible says that sin is only pleasurable for a season. That’s flesh Sug’. And about casting the first stone. That scripture is not appropriate for this circumstance. No one here is trying to deal out the punishment for sin as were the guys in the circle around the woman caught in adultery that you are referring to when Jesus said to cast the first stone. People here are trying to save this brother from his sin and to alert the many Christians reading these blogs to what the Bible does say about sin and how to deal with it. Let’s take the woman caught in adultery that Jesus was saving in the text you misquoted above. What did he say to her? “Get up quick while no one is looking, run off with the man you are having sex with and marry him. Then you will automatically be restored still being able to have sex with him?” No. He just said “Go and sin no more.” That’s the cool way that Jesus deals with sin. Now what would He have done had the adulterous woman said, “Thanks, man. Can I go get my guy and get married and then come back and be cool with you?” I am thinking He would have gotten up and walked away. Like he did with the rich young ruler. He is waiting for us when we return FROM our sin, from our Pigpen like the Prodigal son. Not coming to the pigpen after the son had cleaned it up a bit.
Thoughts?
I am an ordinary Christian person. I try daily to win others to Christ and be a good role model to my children, family and community. My own ‘christian husband’ of 20 yrs. abruptly left me a few days after lovingly telling me he ‘loved me’ for another woman. I was totally blindsided and tremedously devaststaed for I truly thought my ex-husband was the spouse God ordained for me. I felt so humiliated anguished, hurt and disgraced over my husband’s treachery, abandonment, and inexplicable sudden contempt. The Holy Spirit told me that I was being ‘persecuted.’ I then understood that the unholy spirit which overtook my husband with his permission and entry through lust and ‘strong delusion’ on his part, had come to loathe the Holy Spirit within me. My own dear husband became my worse enemy and the most grievious for I loved him. If ordinary Christians are having a hard time, what about the leaders we look up to? I used to email Todd Bentley messages to my contacts, many non-christians and now I feel deeply embarrassed I had done that, without checking with the Holy Spirit as to discerning the level of his commitment to Christ. Obviously his dick was greater than his love for God. Now my family thinks I am a decieved Christian who lacks true discernment and will follow after strange doctrine and that WHORE JEZEBEL IN THE CHURCH. SO NOW I AM TOTALLY DISGUSTED and like my ex-husband I want to spew Todd Bentley out, for he is neither hot nor cold – HE IS JUST A WHOREMONGER – AN ADULTERER. I don’t care what you think of my reaction – it’s an honest one at least. After all the emotional pain my children and I went through, I NOW KNOW WHY GOD SAID WHOREMONGERS WILL GO TO HELL. (obviously the unrepentent ones) I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND.
CSarah: You are not condemned. I don’t think you are an ordinary Christian at all. I think you are extraordinary.
You are honestly facing your grief, pain, anger, loss, shame, anxiety and rejection. I am so sorry you were betrayed, not only by your husband but by those you saw as spiritual leaders such as Bentley. You are working to take care of your kids and yourself and you do not deserve to have family reject your experience and your needs and feelings.
Your trust has been broken, you’ve gone through the blame game, and God will not abandon you. May God continue to call you to His peace.
“And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity, and the water of affliction, yet shall not thy teachers be removed in a corner any more, but thine eyes shall see thy teachers. And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left. Isaiah 30: 20 – 21″
CSarah,
Don’t Quit
When things go wrong,
as they sometimes will,
when the road you’re trudging
seems all uphill,
when the funds are low,
and the debts are high,
and you want to smile,
but you have to sigh,
when care is pressing you down a bit,
rest if you must, but don’t you quit.
Life is odd with its twists and turns,
as everyone of us sometimes learns
and many a failure turns about,
when he might have won
had he stuck it out.
Don’t give up
though the pace seems slow,
you may succeed with another blow.
Success is failure turned inside out.
The silver tint of the clouds of doubt.
And you never can tell how close you are.
It may be near when it seems so far.
So stick to the fight
when your’re hardest hit.
It’s when things seem worst
that you must not quit.
I hope this helps. I keep it on my refrigerator. I never looked up the author. I think I will do that soon. Anyhow, it’s a good reminder to keep us focused. Godbless.
I advance you guys to read psalm 82 if you know who God is then
repeantences will come from your heart{ no body is better than
another]
to Todd I am not better than you and probably no wiser than you
but please listen to what I have to say is better for you and your wife to stay togheder and do not served the Lord publicy because you are not a good testimony for many, that can cause many to fall and you don´t wanna be responsibily for those souls .the lord all ready HAD BEEN uses you to save so many souls , keep your self save and your wife ,pray lot because jesus is just coming
GOD IS THE MOST COMPASION AND MERCIFUL YESHUA ELOGIM
ADONAY
Thank you Karen for this: “I truly believe God does not like divorce, but what comes to mind is he who is without sin cast the first stone. I think we as a body should stop tearing the people apart that are caught in sin openly. They know that their sin brings death. Our job is to restore not tear down. I think the body of Christ need to really study the love chapter in Corithians.”
I see and feel a lot of ‘did you read’, and ‘please look at’ type of comments here concerning the fallen brother. Regardless of his mental, marriage, or spritual condition, we are to love, lift up and restore. Let God be God, what changes need to be made, He will make… not a one of us know this man’s heart. You have it right Karen, 1 Corinthians 13, please read that maybe instead of many men’s commentary on their take of scripture and divorce. By the way, might want to just browse through Matthew 24 while you’re at it, the love of many would wax cold I believe it says, uhm… Lets not as His children go there.
It’s Good to be back where I started.
In love with Jesus.
You can all argue over doctrine, and fling your opinions from the tree of the “KNOWLEDGE” of good and evil. But the Tree of Life is our true portion. (If there’s no life in your words, wrong tree.)
Genesis 4:9 (New International Version)
9 Then the LORD said to Cain, “Where is your brother Abel?”
“I don’t know,” he replied. “Am I my brother’s keeper?”
although he lied , Good Question.
(If there’s no life in your words, wrong tree.)
Matthew 23:15 “”Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.”
Ouch!
:25-28 “Woe to you, experts in the law and you Pharisees, hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and the dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup, so that the outside may become clean too! Woe to you, experts in the law and you Pharisees, hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs that look beautiful on the outside but inside are full of the bones of the dead and of everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you look righteous to people, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.”
Ouch!
:33 “Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?â€
Pretty lifeless, eh?
Marina:
Those scriptures are not lifeless , but were revealed by the Father , How else could Jesus know the inside was unclean. The outside looked clean to man. (Man looks on the outward appearance but God looks inward parts. (the Heart).
I was referring to the fruit behind the our words spoken.
Jesus Died for the hypocrites , greedy and self-indulging, blind, lawless scripture experts, After he exposed their hearts and wept over them. He also asked His father to forgive them after He allowed the greedy and self-indulging, blind, lawless scripture experts to nail Him to the cross and mock Him.
9 Then the LORD said to Cain, “Where is your brother Abel?â€
“I don’t know,†he replied. “Am I my brother’s keeper?â€
or brother’s murderer?
Ouch!
So how do you determine whose words have been revealed to them by the father and whose words have no life in them? How do you determine who is speaking by the spirit of Christ and who is speaking from their carnal mind? By what measurement or standard can anyone speaking on behalf of god or truth be tested?
Fruit? If it’s fruit, then who determines whether the fruit is good or bad. What may seem like bad fruit to us, is actually the will of god. In the OT, there was much death and destruction and evil. Yet much of this was the fruit produced and endorsed by god. To god, destroying the walls of Jericho and killing all it’s inhabitants as Israel laid siege, was “good fruit”. Having the entire world flooded, killing all life but eight, was “good fruit” in the lord’s eyes.
Who can know what is good fruit? Good fruit, biblically speaking, does not necessarily look or taste good to our natural selves. So again, how are we to know whether a man like Todd Bentley or like those who say he is a false prophet, speak by the breath of god or by his own fallible mind?
Jeremiah was ordered to speak out against the the false prophets and religious system of his day. Did his words have no life in them? His words sought to root out pull down and destroy all within the religious system that was not put there by god. Judgment and wrath first, mercy and rebuilding later. The fruit of Jeremiah’s words didn’t seem very pleasant to anyone either. Who likes a nagger, a complainer, a pessimist? But yet the bible says he was doing and speaking the will of god. Jesus said the same thing about the reprobate religious system of the Pharisees. They didn’t like it either and they were so blind and deaf to what he was telling them, they couldn’t see and hear if they tried. But then unfortunately for them, his words came to fruition – death and destruction.
Is the church today acting just like the stubborn religious leaders in Jeremiah’s day? Not giving heed to the words of so many because they don’ t like the fruit that these words of warning will produce?
Those who support men of god like Bentley say they see. They don’t want to hear talk about “rooting out and pulling up” their man. They like him. He satisfies. And he produces good fruit ….. for them. For now.
Marina:
You asked a lot of questions , but I’ll answer your first 3 in the first paragraph as my opinion through experience with Him (Jesus).
1) Jesus is my discernment. The closer I am to Him and His voice determines my level of discernment clarity. (some people just read the scriptures and listen to a pastor’s interpretation for discernment.) I do all three. The first is the foundation for the last two.
see this passage:
John 12:28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.
29The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.
Some thought an angel spoke. some thought it was Thunder. One knew It was God.
The ones who thought it was thunder , how could they understand the message without the voice??
The ones who thought it was an Angel were closer to hearing the message and voice, but they were incorrect in thinking it was an angel. It was God.
Jesus knew it was the Father through his relationship with the Father and His voice was familiar. (He was the closest in discernment of the voice, and the message through relationship.)
Also look at the foundation of some of these blogs, It’s Just plain Gossip in the name of discernment.
Not one prayer for restoration. They say they pray, but read the blogs ,,, not there. Most don’t understand that they themselves have sinned and received forgiveness. But wont sit at Jesus feet and weep as Mary, but sit as the pharisee and Judge the sinner and wonder how could Jesus accept a public hoar.
Her love for Him?
Jeremiah was called the weeping prophet. Jesus wept over Jerusalem then laid his life down for them. here’s some more references:
# Acts 20:31
Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. (PAUL)
# 2 Corinthians 2:4
For out of much affliction and anguish of heart I wrote unto you with many tears; not that ye should be grieved, but that ye might know the love which I have more abundantly unto you. (PAUL)
You want true discernment? How many tears did you spill over Todd Bentley in prayer? This will give you a grid on how much you truly discerned him.
Will,
Your proximity to Jesus is the foundation for scripture? Since when? Scripture is the foundation for everything! No wonder this religion has gotten so messed up. Everyone’s using their own interpretation. The passage you quoted out of John just shows how everyone can interpret something entirely different which proves that without a standard measuring stick (ie, the bible) everybody can make up their own Jesus as they go, any way they want him.
Of course Jesus KNEW the voice of his father. “If you have seen the father you have seen me.” “I in him and he in me”, “I and the father are one.”
You said, “Not one prayer for restoration.” Nor should there be. A wolf cannot be restored because he’s never been anything but a wolf. Men of god, according to the New Testament pattern, don’t do unscrupulous things like we see so called men of god, doing today. What if Paul had a mistress on the side and Peter went about selling his gift of healing? How dishonoring to the one you call “Master and Lord”. What kind of example would that be?
The wolf is safe as long as he can convince enough people that he is more holy and more close to god than they are. As long as they think the holy man speaks by some kind of divine insight, even if he’s a little off, scripturally, they will not question, test or judge “god’s anointed”, especially in public.
The early church and the church throughout history rejected this notion, publicly confronted heretical church leadership, even to the death. Public confrontation is god’s way of dealing with a religious reprobate.
If you really heard the voice of Jesus, it would line up with his word and deed.
Marina:
(when I read the Scriptures S L O W L Y It leaves room for understanding.)
Just to clarify , Without a relationship with Jesus , all scripture foundation is the same as building on a lost pharisee’s doctrine (wrong tree), They were called Experts in the law (scriptures). But they couldn’t discern the Author of the Scriptures.
Paul who wrote 1/3 of the New testament say’s this:
Galatians 1:11-13 (King James Version)
11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
EPHESIANS 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the “SPIRIT” of wisdom and “REVELATION” in the knowledge of him:
He received the Gospel not by the letter that killeth but by the spirit that gave Life
2 Corinthians 3:6
6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
The bible without Jesus is DEAD letter. And so also is any pastor’s opinion without the real Jesus.
Jesus 1st
Scripture 2nd
opinions 3rd
If you were to meet Father God in 5 seconds from now , which one would you call for.
Lastly Wolves in SHEEP’S CLOTHING? Matthew 7:15 right?
Look at some more verses in this chapter:
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
12Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
28And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
29For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
I really like verse 29.
Yeah, but who’s to say who has the real Jesus? Nowadays, you can have your custom made Jesus anyway you want him just because you say you have a relationship with him and in this relationship the scriptures have meaning. (T H E – S L O W E R – Y O U – R E A D – T H E M, T H E – M O R E – Y O U – C A N – T W I S T – T H E M.) But anyone can say they have a relationship with Jesus. Anyone can say they hear his voice. Does the claim justify the claim? No, that’s the problem. These charlatans get away with fooling the credulous, because they say they are in tune with him, they abide in him, he lives in them and speaks to them every day and has so many nice things to say to them. Their fruit are the deceived.
Do you know how many whack jobs out there say they hear the voice of god, jesus? So what?! That doesn’t mean a thing. It just proves a sucker is born every…second.
Anyway, previously you said, “Jesus is my discernment. The closer I am to Him and His voice determines my level of discernment clarity. (some people just read the scriptures and listen to a pastor’s interpretation for discernment.) I do all three. The first is the foundation for the last two.”
Which I took to mean as it was plainly written, that your closeness to Jesus, your relationship, is the foundation for scripture, rather than allowing scripture to be the base from which to determine if in fact it is the real Jesus you think you are close to. You are using something that you believe you are experiencing to be the determining factor instead of testing it against what you read in the bible. That my dear, is witchcraft and heresy, which the bible clearly warns against.
Then you said,
“Jesus 1st
Scripture 2nd
opinions 3rd”
So again I take it to mean that your subjective experience overrides the authority of scripture. Your Jesus would not exist without scripture as there is no other evidence of his being on the planet.
“If you were to meet Father God in 5 seconds from now , which one would you call for.”
My answer to that is NONE OF THE ABOVE. They have all failed to be of any value and a big waste of 40 years for me. If I were to meet father god in 5 seconds from now, I’d point my finger at him and say “Where the hell have you been for 2000 years you hypocrite?!”
(At this point, Will, that’s your cue to either start re-converting me or handing me over to Satan.)
G’day!
I don’t have the power to reconvert you , That’s your decision. I also don’t have authority to hand you over to satan, I’m not an Apostle sent to you. But God has given me authority to pray that you would encounter His Love. … and I will… and you will….
All I was simply saying is I was a catholic as a child (VERY BORING)….
Then I ran from religion and started living for the devil , I have to admit it was pretty fun getting drunk smoking drugs and getting laid almost every day with different women…. (there is pleasure in sin) but only for a season… Then I hit rock bottom…
I remember looking into the sky very depressed (surrounded by my friends drinking) and said in my heart , even if i was to travel the universe there’s nothing worth seeing…
so I moved to another city and started going to a church up the hill , I thought I’ll start a fresh life , I saw a hot girl there so I went the next Sunday (for the wrong reason.) But she wasn’t there , strangely the pastor liked me with my long hair and ripped jeans an very raw personality. so I kept going , and one day the pastor took me to another church where a preacher who looked like a catholic priest was preaching , I thought OH NO (BORING)….But as he spoke he said “When Jesus died He split the veil between man and God , God is in the Holy of Holies beyond the curtain that was torn , all you have to do is run you fingers along the ripples of the curtain and find the opening , just enter in by the blood that Jesus spilled for you to enter.
I began to hear people weep behind me , and thought WHAT!!! this is church??? then I thought about the reasons I went to church , the girls…I was beginning to feel uncomfortable and looked at my pastor , He wasn’t fazed …Then I heard people weeping in front of me,,, and all my sins passed before me , and I felt a Love that I never Felt before , so pure , nothing like lust or filth , PURE LOVE , I said Jesus forgive me for these sins and I began to weep , not for my sins , but because I felt accepted and Loved , I Met Jesus and I know my sins were forgiven and He didn’t have love , He was love , not the love of a mother of any earthy love , this was beyond what I could understand or comprehend….
I said all that to say this , His Spirit bore witness with my spirit that I was now a true son of God,,, His Spirit taught me how to Love! And His Spirit taught me that day that sermons and going to church and reading the bible isn’t enough.
Having a Relationship With Jesus is.
Well good for you, Will. I’m glad that it works for you. It didn’t work for me, though. I guess what really made me start doubting what I believed was all the hypocrites in churches who say all the right things and yet are like venomous snakes. If Christians would only be like Jesus, the world would be a better place. unfortunately there are soooo many who claim to “have a relationship” with Jesus but don’t emulate him, according to what we know him to be in the bible. There is no outward evidence of the power that the bible talks about either. (Sorry, inner healing is not enough proof for me. Unbelievers also experience inner healing) I’m talking the lying to the holy spirit drop dead kind of power!
Wolves like Benny Hinn, Copeland, Dollar and their ilk make the Pharisees in Jesus’ day look like school boys and they just keep getting away with plundering the gullible, the faithful needy sheep in the name of god.
Then I looked deeper into the origins of the text and its veracity diminished. Without an accurate manuscript everything is up for question, just like every other religion and god.
I’ve never been happier or more free since I doffed my religious crutches which I found I never needed in the first place. Things have never been so completely clear to me as now.
Marina
Thank God you threw away your “religious crutches”.
That’s exactly what I had to do to find God.
God isn’t in 80% of what we call church today , 97% would be closer world wide…
Jesus spent very little time in synagogues (churches). probably because just like today it’s (BORING) because it’s the (wrong tree)….Religious leaders back then either wanted to throw Him out or kill Him… WHY? Because darkness is threatened by true Light.
Remember Matt 7:29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
Jesus could keep crowds for days. Average churches 1 hour is too long for people because no one has authority , or they don’t know how to exercise it.
Here is a question for you:
Genesis 3
1Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
8And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
9And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
11And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
12And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
13And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
14And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
———————————————————————————
Verse 14
God said to the snake “dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life”
how is this possible seeing natural snakes don’t eat dust?
What was God saying?
2:7
Okay. I’ll “bite”.
I agree church is little more than a social club. People need to go back once or twice a week to get their fix. The worship, the preaching the alter calls, are all part of their life support system. Most need the system to keep whatever they say they believe, alive. For many if not most, they have been born into the system and that’s all they know. Most don’t know why they believe what they do except that it was taught to them by someone. And even when they “find Jesus” they go to church to be indoctrinated by man.
According to the new testament, what church is and has become was never part of the plan or pattern of the early church. Ministers were never meant to make a living off the gospel of christ. Let alone get wealthy from it. Tax payers never meant to subsidize it. And yet here we are. How can your Jesus look down here and stand what’s happening in his name? Don’t you ever wonder that? Look at all the people throughout history that have been tortured or murdered for the “cause of Christ”. Look at the children all around the world that have suffered abuse and misery and death under the hand of a minister of Jesus. His name has been made a mockery. Why does he not intervene? Where is his “authority” now?
Back to the question. I see what your trying to say; that snakes (evil, the enemy, the devil) will forever attempt to devour mankind spiritually. However I think that it’s quite a stretch to harmonize these verses. Rather, that snakes don’t eat dust is simply one of many scientific errors within the bible, such as rabbits chewing their cuds or bats being birds. Or perhaps it was metaphorical in the way the bible often says that your enemy will lick your dust. (Ps. 72:9, Is. 49:23 and Mic. 7:17)
Cheers!
Back to #241
“I don’t have the power to reconvert you , That’s your decision. ”
Actually if the bible is true, it’s not my decision. It’s god’s.
http://truelogic.wordpress.com/2010/06/13/robots-of-god/
It’s not important to see what I’m saying. But if you can see what God said, and is saying , it is the answer to the question WHY?
“and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life”
Let me pull the curtain back for you.
God made Adam’s flesh from dust ,
The devil feeds on our flesh
and what you feed grows stronger in your life
whether it’s your flesh (fallen nature)
or your spirit in Christ. (new nature)
Jesus feeds on our communion.
what you starve will wilt and weaken in your life
what you feed will be strengthened in your life
basic but true.
The choice IS yours , God is not willing that any should perish.
There you go , now you know the Will of God.
believe a lie and feed your flesh, or believe God and call on Jesus from your heart for yourself. selah
No. Let me pull back the curtain for you.
“May desert tribes bow down before him and HIS ENEMIES LICK THE DUST!”Psalm 72:9
“Kings shall be your foster fathers, and their queens your nursing mothers. With their faces to the ground they shall bow down to you, and LICK THE DUST of your feet. Then you will know that I am the LORD; those who wait for me shall not be put to shame.” Is 49:23
“THEY SHALL LICK THE DUST LIKE A SERPENT, LIKE THE CRAWLING THINGS OF THE EARTH: they shall come trembling out of their strongholds; they shall turn in dread to the LORD our God, and they shall be in fear of you.”Mic 7:17
P.S. – Just couldn’t help but get a little evangelism in there, could ya?
Psalm 72:9
Gods enemies feed on their own (flesh) fallen nature which leads to destruction just like the devil. (Jesus came to deliver us from this.)
Isaiah 49:23 read vs 26
26And I will feed them that oppress thee with THEIR OWN FLESH; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine: and all flesh shall know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.
Micah 7:16 The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf.
(SOUNDS LIKE JUDGMENT ON THOSE WHO ARE DEAF TO GOD’S WORD LIKE THE PHARISEES AND THE SAD NO SEE’S )
17They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the LORD our God, and shall fear because of thee.
We have a choice , I told you God’s will is for you. YOU CHOOSE TO SEE, or just close your eyes to Jesus.
I don’t speak christianese, I can tell you Jesus loves you , Jesus has a plan for your life , blah blah blah…… cliche
Hear Him for yourself. And scrap the words of man.
Choose this day who you are going to serve , as for me not myself.
Wheres the love here??? LOL
still looking at man?
Well I guess we could banter back and forth till the cows come home and get no where.
I once believed like you. You sound like I did a few years ago. Fell for Jesus without reserve. Rejected man’s teachings and institutions. Did what I believed I heard him tell me to do – my purpose, my destiny. Denied myself, forsook ALL and followed him alone. Made him lord over all my life. Seriously.
In the end, long story short, man and religion did not fail me. The god of the bible did. Left alone, my eyes were opened to truth and reality. A reality without the father, son or holy ghost. A reality without myths or superstitions or false hopes. He never really was there. He was a god fashioned by man, when mankind needed answers. But now this god is irrelevant to our world. His purpose has been served.
This is the only life we have. I wish I could have it to do over without having been conceived into religion. And now I want to spend the rest of the time I have, and my resources, doing something useful and lasting for my family and for our world.
That’s too bad you were conceived into religion , I hate even the word just as much as this Gossip Blog station. (no offense Bene D).
Do your best with the rest of your time , and it will please God just to fulfill your purpose in being here. The purpose of life is Love.
Even if you don’t see Him , He is watching over you or else I wouldn’t have returned to this filthy website and balled my eyes out for you last night.