This is not going to be a debate on whether life is sacred, it is.

I believe women must be recognized as full moral agents in society and we aren’t getting into a debate about foetal medical viability.

I appreciate the civility of the conversation, and it’s a discussion that can be had at another time. My thanks to all of you for your respect to each other and to the topic.

The Tillers are grieving a murder of a husband, father and grandfather, a church community is dealing with a shooting in thier church. The Roeder family has their shock and sorrow to go through.

I have a medical emergency in my family – my twin collapsed and is in hospital, so I think it’s best I close off this thread for my sanity.

I had no idea that this would become a pro-abortion argument. I had interpreted this post as denouncing the violent acts of a madman. But am I to believe that many of you are in favour of abortion?

It is a big stretch to say from Numbers 5 that God does not care about the fetus. Scripture should always be read in context. What of the Jeremiah scripture that talks of God knowing and forming Jeremiah in his mother’s womb?

The Numbers 5 scripture talks about a miscarrying womb from that point onwards. It does not say that a baby inside of her will die. Miscarriage in itself is often the miscarriage of an embryo that is already dead, because it did not form properly. But to stretch this to say that scripture allows abortion is just foolishness.

How about this for a scenario: The mother will die if she carries the child to full term. Therefore wait until such a time as the mother is still safe and the child has a good chance of survival if removed with a caesarean section. (Say 30 weeks into the pregnancy. A child can even survive after 26 weeks, and there is a 20% survival rate at 22 weeks.) The mother lives and the baby stands a good chance of survival.

When is it really acceptable for an abortion to be carried out? The only time that I could possibly think of is if the mother’s life is in clear danger. And if this can be avoided through a caesarean at an appropriate point, then that would greatly decrease the instances when abortion is needed. It would certainly remove all need for late term and partial birth abortions. For Christ’s sake!

I am not for one iota of a second defending the actions of murdering an abortionist. That would be to condone murder. But don’t a single one of you think that you can defend the actions of late term abortion, or you too are condoning murder.

Hate evil and cling to what is good.

So you see, BD is absolutely correct: the Bible does NOT count a fetus as equal to a human being!

Other than that, I’ll leave it at “What BD Said”. Preach it!

Another man sits in jail, he has a son and daughter he abandoned and siblings and relatives who have to deal with the shock and consequences of his act.

There is not going to be no hate mail from here.

Maybe we can pray for these families.

But what right do any of us have to take life?
What right do we have to play God and to play judge single handedly?

So this politically violent murderer acted in hate and should be punished.

But does this crazed act of violence somehow vindicate the actions of the abortionist? That would be just as crazy a premise.

Please allow yourself to be as measured as you would have the madman be.

Let us not take leave of our senses and think that we can openly condone abortion. Of course you have the chance to qualify your stance on this.

It would be worth pointing out that your reference to Leviticus was completely out of context and has nothing to do with taking life.

All life is sacred. The life of the doctor was sacred. The life if the babies he killed were also sacred. We don’t have the right to take either.

Guess I’ll sit back and wait for the hate mail.

How does the law define domestic political acts against a group?
When does language cross from free speech to intimidation?
When do criminal acts cross into domestic terrorism?

You made another point I agree with, it doesn’t help by to adding to the complexity when incorrect and inflammatory language is used.

The term political violence is acceptable and thank you for using it.

If the law used single action terrorism, would that be acceptable?

Bene. I’m so blessed by this.
Much thanks.