July 17, 2009 The Board of Directors of Crossroads Christian Communications Inc. (CCCI), is pleased to inform all of CCCI’s faithful partners and stakeholders that we have determined that no CCCI funds whatsoever were directed to Gordon Driver or to any of his corporate entities for any supposed investments. While the Board had no reason to believe otherwise, this fact has now been confirmed to the Board’s satisfaction, through a comprehensive internal investigation conducted by the Board, combined with specific forensic procedures as requested by the Board that were completed by CCCI’s external public accounting firm PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP. The Board continues to observe and carefully monitor the ongoing investigations into the activities of Mr. Driver by official regulatory bodies in Canada and the U.S. We are sincerely sorry about the difficulty and serious concern that many of our partners, viewers and staff have experienced through this challenging situation. Thank you again for your ongoing prayers and financial support, as we press forward to fulfill our mission of bringing the gospel of Jesus Christ to Canada and around the world.
Respectfully,
Kerry Carmichael, Chair, Board of Directors
Crossroads Christian Communications Inc.
A forensic audit was a necessary step.
No word of explanation of what other steps need to be taken, or if other outside regulatory agencies are involved or remain involved.
Most people didn’t believe ministry funds were used.
There is no word if personal Mainse/Rutledge investment money went into – as opposed to out of - the ministry, or if Ron and Reynold Mainse received a salary during their time off-air.
In the June Maranatha interview CEO Doug McKenzie indicated:
Is this a temporary step?
DM: We hope so. Mr. Driver’s activities are being investigated in the U.S. and Canada. Once the board has more information about the investigation it will be in a better position to make a fully informed decision on next steps.
The latest board statement says: “The Board continues to observe and carefully monitor the ongoing investigations into the activities of Mr. Driver by official regulatory bodies in Canada and the U.S.” which is observatory, and detached.
Does that mean the board believes the OSC is satisfied there is a finding of no intent by point people in Canada?
Ron and Reynold Mainse were taken off the air while they dealt with “certain matters in the personal lives.” Crossroads Board statement June 4th.
They have stepped down from their duties until such time as the Board of Directors has a complete understanding of all of the issues related to a financial investment matter that they were involved in outside of their ministry at Crossroads.
According to Crossroads CEO Doug McKenzie in an interview mid-June, the board and management were aware of the Driver/Acxess alleged ponzi scheme in April, when the OSC posted it’s first temporary order (subsequently amended). Doug McKenzie:
We learned that there was a potential personal issue for them a few months ago. We learned in mid-April that the OSC [Ontario Securities Commission] was looking into investments they made with Gordon Driver. And subsequent to that we learned that a claim was entered against Mr. Driver by the [Securities and Exchange Commission] in a U.S. court.
…We know that Ron/Reynold had invested with Mr. Driver. While that investigation continues, Crossroads’ board of directors feels it is best for our ministry that they step aside.
Crossroads employee and Mainse cousin David Rutledge left Crossroads sometime in 2007 to work with Gordon Driver/Axcess. Rutledge remained on Crossroads website until June 2009.
In the first wave of investors pre-100 Huntley Street there were somewhere between 30 to 60 investors. No one who knows has confirmed that number.
US court documents indicate investigators believe there are 100+ investors, 15 from the US, the rest from Canada.
Driver appeared in US District Court in June 5th without a lawyer. He had missed his hearing May 22nd because he didn’t have a lawyer. Driver had a few assets unfrozen during the June hearing and was ordered to get a lawyer, get relevant documents to the CFTC lawyers and co-operate fully in discovery so a trial date can be set.
Also attending the June hearing were the FBI, investors, Steven Rutledge and the the SEC and CFTC.
The next US court date for Mr. Driver is the first week of August.
Because investors have not spoken publicly, it does not mean their losses have not been substantial. In some cases people have been wiped out.
The Crossroads board has indicated they have a completed forensic audit.
I see no acknowledgement from the board of the substantial and in some cases devastating losses for those who directly invested with Axcess Automation/Funds because of connections and standing within the organization.
It would be prudent for Crossroad donors and employees to remain seriously concerned until appropriate questions to the charity have been answered.
There are many unanswered questions as there have been since the day Ron and Reynold Mainse disappeared off 100 Huntley.
When Crossroads updated their webpages, Ron and Reynold Mainse were not removed.
They are now the face of the ministry and I think the message intent was simple; when would the founders sons be back on-air?
Is financial information from Price Waterhouse PricewaterhouseCoopers going to by made available to donors?
Is the OSC actively investigating the CFTC claim Ron and Reynold Mainse were point people in alleged Axcess software investment? Christian Week:
Did the board do the right thing when it removed the Mainse brothers from their positions at Crossroads? Why did they wait until the Hamilton Spectator story appeared before they took public action? Is there more housecleaning yet to come? How will donations be affected? What other changes are likely? Will the organization continue as a member in good standing with the Canadian Council of Christian Charities?
100 Huntley Street/Crossroads, alleged ponzi scheme timeline
Once again, my sincere thanks to an alert, concerned and informed reader.
50 Responses to “Ron and Reynold Mainse cleared – No 100 Huntley Street funds in alleged ponzi scheme”
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Affinity fraud includes investment frauds that prey upon members of identifiable groups, such as religious or ethnic communities, the elderly, or professional groups. Many affinity scams involve “Ponzi schemes” or pyramid schemes, where new investor money is used to make payments to earlier investors to give the illusion that the investment is successful.
I noticed that The Board of Directors of Crossroads Christian Communications Inc. didn’t discuss that this alleged affinity scam has real criminal implications and that criminal charges could be laid against the key participants including Mr. Driver, Ron and Reynold Mainse and David Rutledge!
So it’s not just a investigation by official regulatory bodies in Canada and the U.S.?
Also there is no discussion by BDCC of how many of the affinity victims were related to 100 Huntley Street community or other related religious communities and what is CCC moral liability or responsibility as a result of the involvement of its key leaders in this alleged affinity scam?
The question that still needs to be answered by Crossroads is whether two leaders who were stupid or greedy enough to fall for this kind of scheme are morally or spiritually capable of running a mult-million operation. Christian organizations are to be run at a different standard. The fact is, they still were involved in this scheme as investors at the very least. Did they encourage others to invest? This is still unaswered. Transparency, Crossroads! Transparency!!
Ron and Reynold Mainse should come clean on 100 Huntley Street! Anyone can become a victim of a con. As long as they are victims and weren’t participating in encouraging others to invest for a comission, unwise faith in others happens. We as Christians often fall short on our goals, both as leaders, and as other members in the body of Christ. The bible says to confess our sins, so, come clean! Keeping quiet will only make it look like you’ve got something to hide. Pray for greater discernment in the body of Christ! And finally remember that trust must be earned and not given to individuals or ministries freely!
The release is a professional legally appropriate statement, good for them.
The goal was singular.
The question Price Waterhouse was paid to answer:
Were ministry funds put into investments in Axcess by anyone employed at Crossroads?
I don’t think anyone who cares thought employees dipped into the cookie jar.
They didn’t.
“We are sincerely sorry about the difficulty and serious concern that many of our partners, viewers and staff have experienced through this challenging situation.”
Most governing boards would be sorry when a crisis hits the charity they are tasked to serve.
As a charity/ministry they take a financial hit and loss of public trust.
It is the board who puts their names on the legal bottom line and Crossroads could face lawsuits no matter how the court case in the US plays out.
It remains difficult to tell since May what is deflection, what is entrenched belief systems and behavior and what is lack of awareness and perception.
“The Board continues to observe and carefully monitor the ongoing investigations into the activities of Mr. Driver by official regulatory bodies in Canada and the U.S.”
Reassurance the board is doing their job is again professionally appropriate, goog for them.
Like most singular goal statements it is hollow.
Yanking hosts off the air, neglecting acknowledgement of others who lost so much, lack of public communication, neglect of communications platforms thepublic gets knowledge from, the panicky control of message; speaks human volumes a TV bully puplit and prs don’t cover.
A few news outlets moving wire copy on a once thriving organization doesn’t bode well.
The lack of open public chatter is eerie.
The disconnect between how Crossroads sees itself and how even Canadian Christians see them is depressing.
There are things left to play out.
The OSC has a dismal track record, even if Ron and Reyold Mainse are cleared of criminal intent, and David Rutledge is (has been) scrubbed like he was never a part of Crossroads, and Gordon Driver eventually faces a jury; poor judgement publicly shown by the organization during crisis goes beyond addressing poor investment choices.
Transparency is the ethical and responsible decision.
It would be refreshing but I don’t think an about face is going to stop the organization’s slow lingering fade to black.
The announcement that CCCI has not invested ministry funds in Drivers scheme is a welcome confirmation that many have hoped and believed was true. Yet they (the Board of CCCI) have seen fit not to express any pastoral care or concern for the investors who have lost so much and some have lost everything.
One can understand the sensitivities but when a Christian organization finds itself at the centre of a scandal however reluctantly, surely doing the right thing and taking the moral lead is to walk the higher ground.
There are however still more questions than answers arising from the latest statement by the Board of CCCI, as already articulated in this thread. And that is sad. Just so, so sad.
Perhaps the biggest question thus far unanswered is the alleged role of the Mainse brothers as agents or point people acting for and on behalf of Driver and his investment scheme and whether or not they received a finders fee for their introduction(s).
Whether or not they return to the show must revolve in large part around the answer to this question.
“Transparency is the ethical and responsible decision.”
Indeed it is.
If there is no smoke and no fire then to the Board of CCCI why not stand by the Mainse brothers and make the pronouncement publicly of their innocence and stop this agonizing trial of these men and their family by public opinion?
That surely would be the right thing to do? Surely?
There are wives, children and extended family caught in the vortex of this very human situation – and they have doubtless been affected in ways that have no doubt hurt deeply.
Otherwise why not give the Mainse brothers a full hour on 100HS to answer questions with a facilitator – without their father – taking questions from a live studio audience and from callers – I’m not thinking Michael Coren as able and talented as he is – but perhaps someone from outside the CCCI loop who could ensure fair play and keep the whole thing on track.
God does not occupy the darkness. He draws all things into the light.
The lack of transarency is disconcerting to say the least and it falls short of the standard to which God calls leaders in ministry. That includes the Board of CCCI. That ought not to be revelation to them but perhaps it is.
I see minimum standard of requirement for a media business and Canadian charity, we’re not seeing ministry standard or what God calls leaders to, or we wouldn’t be talking under these posts.
Crossroads didn’t make a public attempt to correct the misperception in recent media there were no ‘church funds’ used.
Why not?
Crossroads didn’t bother correcting a self declared major donor in a religious magazine when the donor didn’t seem to know the difference between the non-profit and the charity.
Why not?
“…a comprehensive internal investigation conducted by the Board, combined with specific forensic procedures as requested by the Board that were completed by CCCI’s external public accounting firm PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP.”
Appropriate legal language.
However…
Conducted by those who requested it.
What does that mean?
When is Crossroads year end?
Someone raised the reasonable question that isn’t that like the fox guarding the henhouse?
PricewaterhouseCoopers probably farmed this little task out to detached auditors, the firm is big enough.
But who is going to check?
The point was made it’s like police investigating themselves without civilians on the investigative board. I agree.
But again, who is going to check?
And if any one of us wrote Crossroads and asked for those financials, what do you suppose we’d get?
They could do an audience show with a outside host.
Not Michael Coren or Lorna Dueck, but at a minimum, someone with their skill level.
That’s an excellent idea.
I never believed for a second that Ron and Reynold were guilty!!!!! I have been a faithful viewer for years, and when this went public, as far as them being relieved of their duties, I was crushed!!!!!!! I have also been a supporter of the ministry, as well as being personally blessed!!!!
Hopefully we are able to put all of this behind us!!!!!! I’m sure that’s what they, as a family are doing!!!!!!!!!
Most people don’t believe Ron and Reynold Mainse or any other employees removed ministry funds to invest.
What do you mean put this behind us?
This is far from over, there are legitmate legal, moral and ethical issues that have to be addressed.
How do you know the family is putting this behind them?
That’s not what Crossroads is saying at all.
Buried in the closing few seconds of the show yesterday, Jim Cantelon briefly announced that they were cleared by Price-Waterhouse’s forensic audit, but did not deviate from their pattern of not elaborating – a lot of viewers wouldn’t have known what he was talking about. A day or two before yesterday there was interestingly a segment on how to avoid being scammed by investment schemes. My thinking is that it would have been more appropriate for a Christian ministry and more fruitful to look into the word of God and share what He has revealed on the subject of money…
I respect, appreciate and trust the Mainse brothers, and their wives! And I don’t think I am “duped”. They are absolutely not all about money or greed. They are good people who love the Lord, and have a wonderful ministry.
Wouldn’t most people want to make money from their investment, and the more the better? It is human nature. And don’t a lot of us have money in the bank, or in some kind of investments? And haven’t even these “not so extreme ones let us down?
However, if they would have asked me to join that particular venture, I would have said “no way!” because my husband and I have been bitten before, as were several good Christians who were “used” by a person whose handling of money was out of control. We lost a lot of money, and in some cases friends. And that person lost his life. A good guideline is “if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is”.
I extend my love and understanding to the Mainses, and thank the Ministry for being sensitive enough to look into the matter.
Come back, sons and wives!
Sincerely, Hannah
MK 4:22 “For there is nothing hidden which will not be revealed, nor has anything been kept secret but that it should come to light.
JN 18:20 Jesus answered him, “I spoke openly to the world. I always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where the Jews always meet, and in secret I have said nothing.
I don’t respect, appreciate and trust the Mainse brothers, and their wives because it all about nepotism, partiality the love of money and secrecy.
And the way Crossroads has circled the wagon with it’s being attacked mentality shows their total approach to the problem is dishonest and unchristian!
Born again Christian say that Jesus Christ is LORD and they believe in the sovereignty of God?
So why did God expose the hypocrisy of the Mainses in not only chasing the mighty dollar but in asking for the widow’s mite, they live in luxury and possibly made lots of money through Chelsea Road productions or other corporations like it where only the privileged belonging to the Mainse family could earn revenue?
Deleted, off topic – BD
I’m sorry to see a lot of the assumptions of greed and ill-will towards the Mainse family, and Crossroads as a ministry-based organization.
Have there been other television evangelists that have manipulated the gospel message for their own personal gain? Yes.
Have other television evangelists been accused, and found guilty of disobeying the tax laws of the land? Yes.
Have these guilty individuals tarnished the efforts of genuine evangelists trying to spread the gospel through the wide-reaching medium of television broadcast? Yes.
Does this mean that Crossroads & the Mainse family are guilty of doing the same? No.
Don’t lump everyone into the same category of greedy insincere television-evangelists. It’s just another form of profiling.
Allow me to present a scenario. What if one of your close friends, someone you grew up with, someone close to your family came to you and showed you a piece of software that he had created, that allowed him to monitor trends in the market, and was allowing him to make large returns on it? Would you automatically assume that it was a farce, or perhaps be interested because it was presented by someone from a position of trust?
Don’t jump onto the “I would never fall for that” band-wagon just yet. People much more smarter than any of us in the area of financial investments fell for the same kind of scam in the Bernie Madoff case… and now Earl Jones. Everything APPEARED to be above board, and based on personal relationship, people invested money with these people in good faith.
Perhaps this is an inherent weakness for those that believe the message of the Gospel… giving people the benefit of the doubt, assuming the best of them, especially those close to them.
Do I think that the Mainses used ministry funds for these investments? ABSOLUTELY NOT. If anyone knows the Mainse family at all, they know that David & Norma-Jean have gone WAY above the expectations of a television ministry to operate above-board in ALL things. Anyone that knows them can vouch for them in this.
Have they made all perfect decisions in the running of the ministry in the last 30 years of broadcast? Highly unlikely. Every ministry or business is bound to make a faulty decision, no matter if it’s run by a single individual or a board of individuals. It’s part of the learning process. ‘100 Huntley St.’ is the longest running programme in Canada after Hockey Night In Canada. Obviously, they learn from their mistakes, and continually make course corrections in their daily operations. And they have done that with viewer support, not income from businesses vying for commercial & advertising time slots. This is not the sign of a corrupt organization, or a corrupt ministry.
I would bet that the Mainses used their ‘returns’ to fund other ministry endeavors, other great causes that could benefit from additional funds. Why? Because they’re not the greedy type. Unrealistic, naive, gullible perhaps… but not greedy. Don’t be so quick to jump on the assumption of guilt for these honourable individuals. They really are great people, and anyone that has ever had a peep into their lives would know this as fact.
There’s a reason why the larger networks have not run away with this story… it’s because all the evidence supports the Mainse family as being victims of this ponzi scheme, not malicious and greedy investors.
My disappointment is with Crossroads as an organization in this situation. In the absence of truth, people tend to ‘fill in the blanks’…. some of it may be true, but more often than not, it’s false. Grow a back-bone people, and support your own! I’m not talking about covering over the truth, but presenting the truth while letting people know that you’re walking together with them through this situation. Your viewers and supporters are not stupid, and notice things like the regular hosts of the programme not being on air. Present the FULL story, and make your findings available to the public… especially to those that support your ministry. Take every opportunity to show that you’re resolute in finding out the whole truth.
And to those that continue to gripe about television ministries… Let us know what you are doing to further the Gospel, or let the fruit of your endeavours speak for themselves. And if you don’t support what Crossroads is doing, then don’t watch their programme, and don’t give them money!!
But, then don’t complain about the quality of TV programmes here in Canada, or the lack of Christian programmes, or the continual whittling away at Christian programming by the CRTC, or about how there is no Gospel message being broadcast over the airwaves.
Either way, pray for them as members of our family. They’re people, just like you & I. They’re not super-human, or super-Christians. They’re just sharing the Gospel message, how it’s impacted their lives, how it has impacted the lives of their guests, and how it can impact yours, if you allow it to.
Please don’t take any offense from my comments, as they’re not meant to insult anyone. I just wanted to offer a different perspective. These are real people, with real families, with dreams for their own lives, with strengths and weaknesses just like anyone else. Don’t assume guilt because either you want them to be guilty, or because many in similar positions have been guilty… Have a heart, give them the benefit of their reputation, and give the legal system a chance to discover the truth behind it all.
Sincerely,
Matt
What is the legal system going to tell us that the Mainse brothers and wives didn’t earn a 5% finders fee for using their 100 Huntley contacts and they were not greedy and stupid?
And since they were sincere and blind in this whole matter they cannot be held responsible for anything for after all they are men and women of God who had more education than the average folks?
So tells us what is the restitution program of the Mainses towards the real victims of this religious affinity fraud?
We hear your words about them but we don’t see any good deeds toward the victims?
And what about this nonsense that anything said about the Mainse is gossip and all gossip is a lie which David Mainse stated on television?
Is speaking against the Mainse the same as speaking against God?
It seems that way!
EX 22:5 “If a man causes a field or vineyard to be grazed, and lets loose his animal, and it feeds in another man’s field, he shall make restitution from the best of his own field and the best of his own vineyard.
1TM 6:10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
Matt, no offense taken.
People are looking for information and are going to have different reactions.
100 investors, we won’t know until the US court case unfolds if the Mainse were finders, and what they earned as point people.
Crossroads has chosen to slam media instead of disclosing.
There are people who know, and who also know their losses, let alone the losses of those they brought into Axcess Automation/Funds.
The Mainse/Rutledge finder amount is likely to come up in the US court case, we’re not going to hear it from Crossroads.
The CFTC investigators reasonably believe they were finders.
I think you are attempting to make the case of innocent greed, and you are correct there are all kinds of intent involved in passing on investment tips. There is a post here at BDBO about reasons Christians pass on investment tips and what happens to the community when a ponzi scheme collapses.
There are a lot of reasons people don’t trust televangelists.
The discussion has been had about religious affinity fraud and trust.
Transparency has been discussed, in the absence of information there is a vacuum. Donators to the ministry have been given good information. But not by Crossroads.
The ministry says the forensic audit has been done, no ministry funds were removed. That appears to be the only disclosure people are going to get. I’d like to be wrong about that.
Crossroads has made it’s communication choices, regrettable, but choices none the less.
I think given the information in Canadian Christianity about Ron and Reynold having taken a ministry leadership investment course, ‘walking with them’ is going to look different to different people.
David Rutledge was not licenced, I’d compare him to Earl Jones on that level. You can make the comparison about trust given in Axcess/Crossroads as being similar to Jones. The upswing and lack of justice in ponzi schemes and fraud has to be addressed on regulatory, legal and educational levels.
I don’t think the communications choice by Crossroads board and management are arrogant, I think as the organization moved to a governence model it’s been dismal. I do think David Mainse statement about media gossip was way out of line.
I also agree with you that harm has been exacerbated with lack of disclosure. I think running a 23 million dollar ministry puts a different level of accountability on decision making, whether or not others agree with that.
Also pray for the investors without a public platform or voice.
They have been devestated, and I don’t see anyone speaking up for them.
“These are real people, with real families, with dreams for their own lives, with strengths and weaknesses just like anyone else.”
Yes, agreed, as are all 100 investors.
Most Evangelical Preachers including Pentecostal ones such as David Mainse and family preach on and believe in the Lordship of Jesus Christ and the sovereignty of God and stand on verses such as:
Psalm 37:23 The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD, And He delights in his way. 37:24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down; For the LORD upholds him with His hand.
1 Samuel 2 2:6 “The LORD kills and makes alive; He brings down to the grave and brings up. 2:7 The LORD makes poor and makes rich; He brings low and lifts up.
Daniel 4:34 And at the end of the time I, Nebuchadnezzar, lifted my eyes to heaven, and my understanding returned to me; and I blessed the Most High and praised and honored Him who lives forever: For His dominion is an everlasting dominion, And His kingdom is from generation to generation. 4:35 All the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; He does according to His will in the army of heaven And among the inhabitants of the earth. No one can restrain His hand Or say to Him, “What have You done?”
So the question needs to be asked and answered is why did God allow the Mainse brothers along with their wives as well as David Ruthelidge to be deceived by Gordon Driver and hurt many people in the process when Jesus Christ came to destroy the works of the devil and not promote them?
What was the real sin that opened the door to this religious affinity fraud by the Mainse besides the blind leading the blind?
If the Mainse cannot answer nor deal with these questions then they obviously are not fit for Christian leadership of any kind because God is not speaking to them and they are just deceived ones deceiving others! And we have too many deceivers amongst us already including Todd Bentley and friends!
Thank God the brothers are free.
They did nothing wrong.
Problem is, we have blogs like this that analyze the heck out of every fact…and make things so complicated.
Even though they did nothing wrong…it seems they did.
Can’t you find something else better to do?
Like work or something!
Bum-Bay
Cal-Bob from 72.39.14.51 (Milton home Cogecocablenet)
Interesting juvenile fixation on certain body parts you got going on, do you think you could try to participate in the coversation without contempt?
I can appreciate you want this to go away, the reality is, for 100 investors, their families and friends, it isn’t going away.
Why the disrespect to Cal Bombay?
Interesting use of the term free.
Hi Walter – your comment has been deleted as per site policy.
Please do not attack others – BD
Walter:
Don’t.
Bob-Cal doesn’t have a developed cognitive process.
I think she/he is a kid needing to vent.
Be the grown-up, okay?
If this kid is a member of a Crossroads family, he/she probably few places to be angry and probably even fewer grown-ups paying attention.
Bene
How do we know it’s a kid?
I have seen adults do and say all kinds of things and throw a temper tantrum just like a kid!
I have seen spoiled brats cry their heart out when they didn’t get their way and in the old days we would smack them on their head and tell them to shut up!
But today being a spoiled brat is healthy and we are to leave them alone?
No wonder our society is in a mess!
Good question Walter.
I don’t know for sure.
This isn’t the first correspondence from Bob-Cal, I sincerely do not see social, emotional, spiritual and cognitive development past adolesence.
Therefore Bob-Cal gets the benefit of the doubt.
You know I’ll enforce my site policy.
Let’s assume your hypothesis is correct. Given prior correspondence, Bob-Cal is:
a) a maladapted adult with serious fear and anger issues attacking people instead of issues
b) a Crossroads troll planted to discredit this blog (stranger things have happened)
c) none of the above
Either way, you are an intelligent follower of Jesus Christ and have shown you know the higher way. I don’t think I’m expecting too much from you.:^)
Bum-Bay:
The hen can shout ‘fowl’ or ‘foul’ from the hen coop and that’s normal fare but if the fox shouts ‘fowl’ or ‘foul’ from the hen coop then the hen understandably needs to ask the hard questions for all the right reasons. Are you a hen or are you perchance a fox?
Walter:
You seek to make some good points but you seem to be counting your chickens in terms of the outcome of this matter. The hen or the fox are innocent until proven otherwise. You would surely want such an attitude of grace to prevail if you or one of your loved ones were subject to any legal procedure. Why would you extend or want anything less for anyone else?
You would surely want such an attitude of grace to prevail if you or one of your loved ones were subject to any legal procedure.
GAL 6:7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap.
Tim
1) Grace has nothing to do with it! When you knowingly or unknowingly go through a red light at a busy intersection do you think about grace or consequences?
2) You have not discussed the sovereignty of God and why he has allowed the Mainse to be deceived and exposed in this religious affinity ponzi fraud when they were so educated?
Theresa stated on this website “I thank God for His sovereignty, that He is completely in control of the situation and that He knew about all these things long before they began to happen!
God’s sovereignty didn’t prevent chaos or exposure where innocent trusting people have been hurt by the Mainse who still are not discussing restitution since they earned a 5% finders fee?
Any legal procedure doesn’t change the fact that the Mainse have demonstrated to the world they don’t hear from God in this area before the invested and are not qualified to be in Christian leadership but although they might be good for the political world!
Jim Bakker was found guilty of many crimes and was sentenced to 45 years in jail but only served less than 5 on a technicality! He is back on television spewing nonsense based on false assumptions and erroneous thinking. Bisexual Bakker should have served out his sentence and never gone back to television to preach garbage to the masses!
Walter:
When you run through a stop light whether knowingly or unknowingly what happens next is in God’s hands. It’s by His Grace whether we live or die.
I encourage you to allow God to have His way through all of the matters at question. One thing’s for sure God will do what He wants to do with us or without us. He needs no convincing one way or the other. Not from you, not from me or anyone else.
I appreciate your heart for God and we would doubtless agree that righteousness and justice are cornerstones of His Kingdom.
JUDE 1:5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
10:27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
10:28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
10:29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
10:30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The LORD will judge His people.”
10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Walter – Do not attack other commenters. Edited for violation of site policy – BD
Right after Jesus says “Therefore if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you….first go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift” , He says “Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are with him on the way, or he may hand you over to the judge and ….you may be thrown into prison. I tell you the truth, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.” (Matt. 5:23-26)
How I understand this passage is that He is talking about repentance (and restitution, which is a fruit of repentance) – grace only kicks in when repentance is forthcoming…without genuine repentance we will feel the back of our Father’s hand in this life. It is He who is our adversary when we do wrong.
Still searching for understanding about “zeal for My house consumes me”, which it looks to me that Walter is exhibiting, but I can say the Lord has taught me that to be His disciples we need to “hate our brothers and sisters”- we are to cut away fleshly loyalties and affinities and be loyal to God alone. In Exodus 32:27-29 the Levites were commended by the Lord when “each killed his brother and friend and neighbour” for gross sin in the camp. Moses said, “You have been set apart to the Lord today, for you were against your own sons and brothers, and He has blessed you this day.”
Do we rejoice when some are caught in sin? No, absolutely not, but if there is no repentance forthcoming, it seems we have the example in scripture that such are to be driven out of the house of God to maintain the purity and integrity of His sanctuary, until such time as they do repent (if they do)…”hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.” (1 Cor. 5:5) Problem is most in the church can’t discern the difference between gross sin and “shortcomings” anymore.
“Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.” (Rom. 11:22) This is the God of the NEW Testament speaking!! He doesn’t say to work out our salvation with fear and trembling for nothing!
1COR 5:11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner-not even to eat with such a person. 5:12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 5:13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”
How many Evangelicals believe that restitution is a fruit of repentance or that being covetous is wrong? It seems very few!
Is it because many believe in and have accepted a false gospel of cheap grace where they have not real repented of anything and are no different then the people in the world?
Christians Today say and do things just like the world including divorcing and pursuing money when Jesus told them not too!
And yes we are to judge and put away those in the church who are like the world even though it might empty most churches! Yet God’s word is true:
1COR 2:15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.
1PT 1:17 And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear; 1:18 knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, 1:19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.
Yes. Yes. Yes. Amen. And it is the spirit of Elijah/John the Baptist, the voice of justice, that prepares the way of the Lord, who is coming soon to judge the living and the dead! Thank you brother – lots that was ‘muddy’ before is becoming much clearer for me. My, how I wish there was more preaching like this in the pulpits of America and Canada to whip the church into shape!
Saturday’s Globe and Mail on Saturday, Aug. 01, 2009 reports
Prime Minister Stephen Harper said this week that the opposition parties are delaying Criminal Code amendments that would have hit hard at the likes of Vincent Lacroix and Earl Jones, who are facing criminal charges over their handling of millions of dollars in investments.
“Our government has been trying to strengthen the criminal justice system, including … measures to toughen up penalties not just for violent crime, but for these kinds of white-collar crimes as well. The opposition has resisted that,” Mr. Harper said.
“These crimes have real victims. They may not be victims of violence, but they are real victims, suffering real pain, and we should have a justice system that responds accordingly,” the Prime Minister added.
Asked which bills the opposition have delayed, the Prime Minister’s Office later pointed to legislation that would eliminate house arrest as a sentence for major crimes, including theft over $5,000.
However, the outrage in Canada these days is related to the fact that while U.S. judges can quickly send fraudsters such as Bernie Madoff to jail for life, Canadian white-collar criminals often get out of jail after serving one-sixth of their sentences. In addition, investigations are slow, and civil suits are often the only way to recover funds.
Think it’s possible that those who are lenient towards white-collar crime identify a little too closely with the perpetrators?
If you think about it Politicians and Pastors are the ones who commit white collar crimes in our society. They both don’t have real integrity!
Walter:
Some of your thoughts are helpful in your missives; some of them are not – sorry!
Your comments border on the vituperative and more than once the moderator of this blog has warned you to tone it down or else your comments will be excised. You also are in danger generally of wandering somewhat onto the field of sub judicy in terms of the subject matters of this blog and there are few if any people reading this blog would want to join you there. I for one will not.
I shall not defend my position on Grace as that would be a contradiction in terms to do so. At least in terms of my relationship with God. Please respect the fact that I don’t agree with you.
Yes indeed, God is Sovereign. I’m glad and relieved about that.
Well sir, I took your advice and thought about it, and I couldn’t help noticing that both these kinds of ministers and politicians also have this uncanny ability in common, of talking a lot while saying little!
Hi Walter:
I’ve deleted your comment.
It is not acceptable here at BDBO to call others liars.
Check the site policy under About.
Play nice.
I apologize to the person you attacked, I missed this. BD
You know, in seeking the Lord for understanding about this whole grace/justice issue, I am having to ask Him whether my whole concept of how I am supposed to talk to others comes from the world, or from Him? The church should be portraying/revealing the whole character and nature of Christ/God, not just the grace side. When all those people are thrown into the lake of fire I don’t want any of them to be able to say to me, “You never showed me He was like this!”
Last night I happened to find out that Jesus went on a rampage in the temple, throwing out the money-changers, not once but twice – at the beginnnig of his ministry, and than again at the end of His ministry, just before His crucifixion. These incidents “book-ended” His earthly ministry, as someone else put it. This gives me pause to think…
Also, I have seen that many Jewish people seem to mirror the character of God in many ways more than any other race I have seen – they are very forthright and honest among themselves, to put it mildly, never having to wonder what the other is really thinking! But towards gentiles, they tend to be more forgiving and gentle, but without being false. I’m grateful to have had this living illustration of the nature of God, because it is not often found in the church, myself included, although I’m trying to “learn”! I find the church is usually the opposite – far too soft on each other, and too hard on the lost! If we were more vigilant and honest in calling each other to account by the high standards set by our Lord, the world would have less to criticize, and it would show them the side of God’s nature they will have to face very soon if they don’t repent. They easily see the hypocrisy of the church, so they would just as easily see it when we do right.
I strongly suspect we have let the world’s ideas of “politeness” infiltrate our thinking and way of acting towards one another, and we need to develop a thicker skin, like soldiers do in their training excercises. We mustn’t cringe and hide from truth, we must get to the place where we say, “Bring it on! I can take it! Grrr!” Iron sharpens iron, “fluff” cannot sharpen anything.
Wow, absolutely nothing has changed, neither God nor man, in all those centuries since Micah wrote those scriptures down – they precisely fit what is going on in the church today. And “zeal for my house consumes me” is the characterizing statement for His sojourn here, as regards His house – it was the beginning and the end of Jesus’ ministry, rebuking the hypocrites, driving out the money-changers! The whole reason He was crucified! If we want to be like Jesus we need to get with His program and be consumed with zeal for His house also! Praise the Name of the Lord! Bless you brother Walter, I’m getting fed like I could never be fed in the churches!
Wow, I still can’t believe the overall tone of this discussion. Let the courts decide on who is guilty, and of what. If you’re not happy with how the courts come to their conclusions, then do something about it. Take up a career that puts you in a place to influence change in that arena. Better yet, pray that righteous & honourable men & woman will populate those positions of influence.
Our place as Christians is not to judge others. And yes, I know all the verses on judging, and the consequences of putting ourselves in that place… and I also know the verses that say to judge for yourselves. It doesn’t say to try a person being investigated by the court systems in a public arena of personal opinion.
Walter:
You need to chill with the onslaught of defamatory statements about the Mainses. You seem to know a lot about the Bible, so I’m sure that you know what the Bible says about the responsibility of the ’shepherds’, and what happens when they ‘abuse’ that responsibility… God Himself says that He will deal with them. Why are you so bent on proving them guilty? What’s in it for you? An ‘I told you so? Some validation for your personal conclusions? Check your motives.
Whether you like it or not, God has seen it fit to allow the Mainses to occupy the positions of authority & influence. HE allowed it. What they do in that arena is open before the Lord. Truth be told, we only know this whole story in part. HE knows the whole story. Personally, I’d rather submit to HIS judgement and discipline than any person’s judgement, especially your summary conclusions based on partial information. I guess it’s a good thing that we don’t have that kind of authority with each other! We’d be making guilty conclusions on people based on the partial information we saw, and then we’d have to do a LOT of backtracking when the whole truth came out!
God is a righteous and holy judge. Do a search on Biblegateway.com about how the Lord is SLOW TO ANGER, abounding in grace, love & mercy. He doesn’t allow the guilty to go unpunished, but how He does that is HIS business, not ours. If you don’t like that, take it up with Him. I’m sure He’d have a thing or two to say about it. I’m sure that He would also remind you that you’re talking about some of His children, your brothers & sisters.
If you really do ’see’ something that needs to be addressed, use God-given wisdom. Speak the truth in love, and in the right time. There may be truth in what you’re saying, but your tone speaks a different message than love, one more of resentment & bitterness, and it most definitely doesn’t come across as in the Spirit of Christ.
Don’t forget that the woman that was CAUGHT IN THE ACT of adultery… Jesus didn’t deny her sin. He simply reminded everyone of the fact that NONE of us are without sin, and only HE can decide our fate. And He chose to forgive her, with the warning to not repeat her sin.
Do you pray for these people that you deride with your words, people that God has seen fit to allow to come to positions of authority & influence? Do you really want them to see the poor choices they have made along their path, or do you want to see them punished?
Take a moment and ask God to reveal the true motives of your heart. Be honest with yourself. Then speak as the Holy Spirit leads you, not from a place of personal agenda or desire for retribution.
And whoever is posting as Cal Bum-Bay. C’mon, grow up. There’s no need for name calling.
Bene Diction: Having known David Rutlege personally, he’s not the kind of guy that you’ve concluded he is. Poor choices? Yes. Intentionally misleading? No. He’s not that kind of guy. Let the courts decide what happened, and the fallout of all this.
And yes, I agree that we need to also pray for those that made poor choices in investing money into this Ponzi scheme. The same God that sees all and knows all won’t overlook their losses and their situation. I trust that He will make a way for them, and will take care of their needs.
I’m sure we will ALL think twice before investing money into anything that looks better than what the financial world is offering. I’m glad to have seen someone else post this: If it looks too good to be true, it probably is. Let’s all be realistic with our financial expectations, ask God to give us wisdom in our finances, and then work for our money. Proverbs 10:22 says “The blessing of the Lord makes one rich, and He adds no sorrow to it.”
Matt
And I do appreciate, Therese, that you’ve been receiving some cool Biblical insights through this discussion. Let me encourage you to continue to ask God for new revelations and applications for those insights.
Be blessed!!
Hi Matt:
“Let the courts decide on who is guilty, and of what. If you’re not happy with how the courts come to their conclusions, then do something about it.”
I agree with that at least some of what has occurred is before the courts. There is more than one concern being looked at; legal, ethical, regulatory, and expectations of performance by a Canadian charity and it’s leadership.
“It doesn’t say to try a person being investigated by the court systems in a public arena of personal opinion.”
Whether we like it or not, there is a court of public opinion. Pretending we aren’t seeing a rise in religious affinity fraud, a rise in prosecutions isn’t going to stop discussion.
Discussing what, how, why is a difficult thing in religious communities.
Another difficulty lies in long court processes – lack of information does lead to people filling in the vaccum.
How a public charity choses to communicate does affect all of us.
Choices made by leaders in public media ministries is a public issue.
“Having known David Rutlege personally, he’s not the kind of guy that you’ve concluded he is. Poor choices? Yes. Intentionally misleading? No. He’s not that kind of guy. Let the courts decide what happened, and the fallout of all this.”
I’ve not seen any charges against David Rutledge, Matt.
He has an order to cease by the OSC (halt activity with Axcess Automation/Funds), the order is not civil or criminal charges and he is not before a court.
Am I reading the US court documents incorrectly?
Are you saying David Rutledge falls under ‘employee’ in a US civil suit and is therefore charged?
Matt:
Couple more questions.
When did David Rutledge leave Crossroads?
Did he bring investors into Axcess Automation/Funds?
I appreciate the encouragement Matt, thanks….
“Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.” Eph. 1:3
BeneD said: “Whether we like it or not, there is a court of public opinion. Pretending we aren’t seeing a rise in religious affinity fraud, a rise in prosecutions isn’t going to stop discussion.”
I agree – in fact I feel it ought to give rise to more discussion, it should be a matter of great concern to the church. This is a widespread problem that is coming to light and it did not develop in a vacuum – there are reasons behind it.
I’ve been a supporter of CCI for many years. I am really saddened by this breath of scandal that has touched the ministry. I’m sure the Mainse brothers and their family must be devastated by it. Having said this, I still have faith and confidence in CCI and continue to “partner” with them. I’ve had indirect contact with many of the principle members of their ministry team, for example my sister and her husband worked closely with Richard Brown for several years, where they met and worked with a young Reynold Mainse and also with Cal Bombay. During this time, and since then, and from all knowledgeable sources, the Mainse family have always proven to be honourable, above board and full of integrity. It seems to me, that they too are victims here, and not because of personal greed, but by falling victim to fraud perpetrated by someone that they trusted. It was a huge mistake, and one that is costing them dearly, but who among us hasn’t made mistakes. I believe as Matt stated so well in an earlier post, that they probably saw this as a great opportunity to financially support other ministry involvements. In any case, their exemplary track record affords them the benefit of the doubt, at least until all the facts are made known through the legal system, where I am confident that the Mainse brothers will be exonerated of any deliberate wrong doing. I’m praying for them and the whole Crossroads/100 Huntley Street organization. May God bless and continue to guide them.
Hi Helen:
Thanks.
Reynold Mainse has publicly stated he believed he could make money for others.
Nothing has been said publicly by Ron or the Rutledges.
We don’t know how many Crossroads employees suffered loss.
You are correct, many victims don’t intend to victimize, and the law weighs innocent greed (intent); I don’t know what other regulatory hurdles the organization will face as things play out.
The Mainse family and Crossroads Christian Communications have lost more than money, may God guide them.
Sorry, I don’t have the answers to those questions.
Bene D: I appreciate your efforts to create an opportunity for people to find out more information than is being communicated to them through normal channels. I’m disappointed with the lack of communication from the ones that we should be hearing from.
If I can encourage you & the others reading these posts to yes, stand for justice & righteousness, and all these things that are noble & true. But don’t forget that people are involved. Real, flesh & blood people, with families, children, loved ones, challenges of their own, bills to pay. I’m talking about the people that have lost their investments, as well as the people that were duped into thinking it was legitimate.
Extend the grace that has been shown to us as sinners by our Saviour, all of us having fallen short in some area or another. Extend the love of Christ, and keep a watchful eye on our brothers & sisters, not for the purpose of crucifying them when they mess up, but to protect them and to glorify the Name of Jesus through it all.
That’s my final word on all of this. It’s been exhausting to ride some of the emotions of these posts and the others on the other articles, but I do appreciate the dialogue. I do appreciate that people are wanting answers, and want to not see the Name of Jesus tarnished again with another scandal from among our own.
Matt
Hi Matt:
Thanks for your participation and grace, it has been a surprisingly emotional story, with hard edged responses.
A lot of people, known and unknown have been deeply hurt.
We do need to respond in compassion, families have been devestated, those in the public eye and those out of it.
There is a story out of Pennsylvannia this week of a guy who was charged in a ponzi scheme in his church. 1.8 million.
He got 8 years and 3 years probation.
The story in The Inquirer puts a human face on the suffering.
There are more of these religious affinity fraud stories, in this case the finders also lost.
http://tinyurl.com/ycqxoje
What does justice look like for the public, a church or ministry, families, investors? I don’t know, I just know we Christians can’t keep pretending it’s no big deal.
ISA 28:17 Also I will make justice the measuring line, And righteousness the plummet; The hail will sweep away the refuge of lies, And the waters will overflow the hiding place.
HOSEA 10:13 You have plowed wickedness; You have reaped iniquity. You have eaten the fruit of lies, Because you trusted in your own way, In the multitude of your mighty men.
Concerning justice, truth and victims it has been my real experience that Evangelical Pastors including Pentecostals and prominent ones like David Mainse don’t care about the victims they create but only their self interests and never mind the love of justice, truth justice.
Case in point as detailed in my Ebook “Not Innocent” the friends of the Straders including President Richard Roberts raised $40,000 for Dan Strader’s defense fund and not a penny for any of the real victims that he created. As a result at Dan’s sentencing, when Pastor Karl Strader asked from the Judge for mercy for his son because this is his first offense, Judge Doyle asked Pastor Karl Strader “How he could show mercy when the defendant has not shown remorse for his crimes.“
Judge Doyle as a Minister of God went on to say something that was amazing to me and explains why God gave Dan Strader a 45 year sentence. He said, “I have prayed for wisdom on this, but how can I, as the conscience of the community forgive the man when, I have yet to hear Mr. Strader say he did anything illegal.”
Speaking of the court system and justice, because of their fear of being exposed as wolves in sheep’s clothing amongst other things, Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship, John Arnott and Steve Long sued Walter Kambulow in the Superior Court of Justice in Ontario based on real lies and perjury for $50 million. And then during the process they committed more criminal acts of perjury and obstruction of justice for which the Attorney General and the Law Enforcements have been requested to take proper actions!
Unless they were criminals and had something to hide, which non profit corporation or church including Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship, John Arnott and Steve Long would sue anybody including Walter Kambulow for $ 50 million and lie, commit perjury, steal and obstruct justice in the process before the Superior Court of Ontario?
One thing for sure they are not Christians because everything they did is against the teachings of Jesus Christ, the author and founder of the Christian faith. He would never do or condone what they have done!