“GENERALS GATHER FOR A HISTORIC STRIKE AT TheCRY VANCOUVER FOR 40TH ANNIVERSARY OF WOODSTOCK – WITH CANADIAN OIL RAMP UP MEETINGS”
TheCRY VANCOUVER
AUGUST 15, 2009 (all day)
It is not a concert, it is not a conference, it’s a CRY.
A friend with a wicked sense of humour wrote:
Somebody should tell their e-mail intern that “generals” and “[first] strike” is not the best language to use with us Canadians, who can be skittish about such matters at the best of times…:)
The Cry is a neo-charismatic New Apostolic Reformation extension of the US ‘The Call.’  This year Canadian promoters aren’t trying to hide their ties with their polically hyper religious right southern counterpart, they are flaunting their association (couched in lovely religious language) with Lou Engle. No Christian parent in their right mind is going to let their child go to hear militarized theocrats. This is dominionism, hyper-experiential new age goobleygook biblically illiterate, radical manipulation. There is agenda and no amount of softening the message for Canadian ears is going to change hard core reality.
Canadians who have shown themselves to be wolves in sheep’s clothing will make their appearance. They believe they have a divine apostolic right to usher in their version of God’s kingdom. The teaching is extra-biblical and is targeted at young people susceptible to cause and belonging.
I’m glad they are showing their true colours. I’m glad they admit they are revealing their reason for the venue; Vancouver’s turn on the world’s sports page. I want people to see these leaders and this movement for what it is – a counterfeit. I also hope people who understand this sub-culture and it’s dangers will attend and will report.
This is what Sam Reimer in Evangelicals and the continental divide calls ‘south up’ influence in evangelicalism. While this growing bubble of apostasy has sent some northerners south such as Patricia King and Todd Bentley, for which I apologize to my US neighbours who have been conned and fleeced, it’s important Canadian pentecostals and charismatics get informed. Engle is not speaking metaphorically. Neither are his Canadian associates.
Update: Canadian Christianity looks at TheCry’s marketing, attendance and political endorsements: Christians debate significance of TheCryÂ
Lou Engle Right Wing Watch
Lou Engle calls for civil war
Talk2 Action -Â Anti-Gay Marriage Pro-Prop 8 Leader Called For Antiabortion Martyrs
PJ Miller:Lou Engle, The Call, Martyrdom & the NAR
PFAW: Prop 8′s Call to Extremism
Religious Dispatches: “The Call” Warns of Antichrist Legislation
More Books and Things:Â About that Nazarite Uprising Thingy
Polycarp is only partly headlining his post tongue in cheek, he takes his theologically seriously
Lou Engle urges Americans to Invade Canada for God
Dennis Gruending: The Cry, Charismatics and Parliament Hill
When this crowd says Canadian Oil, they aren’t talking about Alberta crude.
For good measure, if the political and theological discussion isn’t enough - from another who walked away: Deception Bytes: 20 Characteristics of a Cult
You are very correct to be concerned about Lou Engle’s group.
Not only do they teach bad theology, their members often say many other churches are “dead” and will be spit out by Jesus when he returns!
Lou Engle’s violent language is scary. I worry his calls for Martyrs and civil war will be answered.
So many of his sermons call for war. He says it’s a spiritual war, but there will be those who take direct action. Preach violence to 10,000 people and some lone crazy will rise up to it.
But, he’s losing members and influence …
Lou Engle was just in Charlotte North Carolina. He wanted to gather a thousand people to encircle a block where a gay pride celebration was happening. He did not get near the thousand people he hoped for (wearing red t-shirts in front of the gays)
Police and media reports say Engle’s “Prayer Warriors” numbered fewer than five hundred (500) – that’s all he got in a very conservative Southern city. His “army” is losing battles even on favorable ground.
but, what do I know? I’m not really a blogger.
Thank you for that, it’s good to hear he drew half the crowd he counted on.
I take it you are referring to the Michael Brown/Engles Charlotte Pride initiative ‘God Has a Better Way.’ The red shirts.
“It stops here.”
Thanks for the link, Bene D. Red shirts? Hasn’t anyone told him about the brown shirts and the black shirts from WWII?
Or maybe he is doing it on purpose.
Engle and King will be holding a “Canadian Oil” conference in the nearby suburb of Coquitlam in the run-up to the Cry and I’ll try to get a ride there to see what is going on.
Don’t they have Canadians who can speak to the ideas that they want to promote?
Todd Bentley’s interns/ministry school graduates used to wear red shirts too.
But, if you remember the original Star Trek, wearing a red shirt is a death sentence there. (“Ensign Redshirt, go look behind that rock.” Aaah! “Oh my goodness, Spock, the evil alien just ate Ensign Redshirt…” )
Rick, that’s a classic on the red-shirts. If Kirk, Spock, Bones and Ramirez beam down, it’s even-money that Ramirez comes back in a body bag-”Ramirez. Come in, Ramirez!”
However, we need some other people beamed-up, the folks who are taking the spiritual warfare metaphor a bit too literally. Most of the folks listening would write it off as hyperbole (having hung out in charismatic circles off-and-on for the last two decades, I would tend to do that), but a few might not and start to head off into some sort of NAR jihad.
It’s worth keeping tabs on, to be sure.
There is a recent article in the BC Christian News about The Cry and the names of the persons in the Bands are there
So, I e-mailed all of them on My Space and encouraged them to read Bene Diction
I think this will stir them all up
Faytene Kryskow of Extreme Prophetic Vancouver, The Cry had a joint service with Worship Invasion moderated by Ed Rubuliak at a Venue at an Abbotsford Church. one of the Pastors is a Rubuliak and another is an Elder Apostle
These felt they had a prophetic vision about me in 2004 stealing a ring off of a woman s finger which I didnt do
They slandered me and didnt apologize
Maybe they got me mixed up with the inident of Sven Robinson who did steal a ring to later go bring it to the Police
They play dirty pool because they were afraid of being found out
They couldve played it cool with me and I wouldve never suspected anything
But because they didnt I got suspicious and researched, found them out to be New Apostolic Revolution
Word like this gets around at the once a month Worship Invasion Venues would threaten their offering pots which they were successfull in protecting
They said, Youre not welcome well phone the Police
They passed this onto Faytene and she said the same thing to me
They dont like being found out but now everybodys finding them out
These people are very aggressive and authorative
John:
Was this the article in BC Christian News?
http://www.canadianchristianity.com/bc/bccn/0809/01games.html
Bene D
Yes, Ad is on
BC Christian News Aug 2009 Volume 29 #8 pg 13:
-Worship will be led by:
-Heather Clark, her band also went to Todd Bentley,Lakeland
-Sandy & Russ Rosen
-Tracy Rahn
I found them all on My Space encouraging them to read Bene Diction
Also advertised on, pg 18 mentioning location and date only
Thanks.
Faytene K was recently part of the Dominion Conference for The Miracle Channel. It was poorly attended.
The MC has been dropped by Shaw in Campbell River effective August 11th.
It will be interesting to see how many show up to Stanley Park.
Bene D
Just went to Google typed “Dominion Conference”
I’ve never heard of any of these persons before but now I know why they call it the “Dominion Conference” is to do with Dominionism and I see with the biographies of the persons the mentioning of the words ‘Apostle’ and ‘Prophet’
What do you think is the reason for the poor attendance?
I see that it took place in Lethbridge, Alberta
I’ll -very carefully- check out the Cry Aug 15 at Lumberman’s Arch to see who and how many attend?
These groups play -dirty pool- the way they slandered me in 04 when they said, ‘you prayed over a woman and took the ring off of her finger’
Now, Faytene Kryskow and Worship Invasion say to me, “We’ll phone the Police!”
That’s just their -dirty pool- way to get rid of persons who check them out and are -on the ball enough- to notice things.
I know I -ate dirt- at the hands of them though.
Sounds like more persons check them out will probably be at Lumbermans Arch.
I don’t know about “dominion”. As students of Canadian history remember, the formal name of Canada is/was “The Dominion of Canada”…based on a verse in Psalms 72, I believe. “He shall have dominion from sea to sea…”
To Canadians of a certain age, who remember the “dominion” government being what we call the the federal government up until the 1960s, a “Dominion meeting” might just imply a national meeting.
But then again, only young fogeys like me would have that be the first definition that comes to mind. But Fayetene, with her knowledge of Canadian history, might like that allusion…
Rick Hiebert
Faytene Kryskow’s book ‘Stand on Guard’ is a bestseller !
She does like history
The ‘Dominion Conference’ is probably about Dominionism and NAR (New Apostolic Revolution) but these groups seem good about not making themselves clear and not wanting others to find out about them and are happy to be seen as non-denominational Evangelical/Conservative Christians.
If people perceive that to mean ‘Dominion’ in the old fashioned sense the group organizers would probably be quite happy
But, in reality, that are of a subculture of an extremist charismatic fringe otherwise called a sect
Dennis Gruending, on his blogs, has well researched the NAR for what it is
My impression of Faytene Kryskow is of a person who is -position, money and success- who will fall over any person who is a means to and end and revolt against anyperson who is not completely convinced of her. She does not take any criticism but she really gives it.
After Ed Rubuliak and his crew from Worship Invasion slandered me in 2004 over the ‘ring’ thing then Faytene homed in for the kill.
Both of them are liars !
These two groups are close allies with their -hit n run- ways.
Rick Hiebert
I typed “Rick Hiebert” on Google and I see you’re a Journalist with a UBC education is quite impressing.
You’ve also just answered my question, ‘Are you going to investigate ‘The Cry’ at Lumbermans Arch on Aug 15/09?’
My guess is, quite likely, ‘Yes!’
Faytene Kryskow used to go to West Point Christian Fellowship on MacDonald & W12th in Kitsilano and lived ***** (edited: BD) before she moved to Ottawa where she did ‘The Cry’ to be observed by Dennis Gruending’ who was told about it by a younger person.
My friend whose husband is a medical practitioner had donated quite a lot of money to Faytene for her ministry, his medical doctor friend referred her to him.
How much, I don’t know, you’re guess is as good as mine?
Both of these persons are members of the same church as me and ‘yes’ I told them all about what happended to me.
And they do not and will not give her any more money.
He recommended the book, ‘The Scapegoat’ by Rene Girard is about the scapegoat mechanism throughout human history; The theme basically goes like this, there is a group with a problem started by them but blames a person not allowed in the group for starting it is ‘The Scapegoat’ and punishes that person is called ‘Scapegoating’ is what happended to me.
My friend had Faytene come to her door as well
The CRY, originally was started in Canada by a PAOC pastor, Steve Osmond. He runs Tehillah Monday and is the Senior Pastor of First Assemblies in Calgary. The first was conducted in 2002. I attended and there was an estimated 10,000 people there. As far as my memory serves me, I don’t believe 4mycanada had been started, didn’t see the folks from House of Prayer or any of those groups now strongly affiliated with The Cry in attendance. If I am correct, and I may not be, I don’t remember seeing Faytene even a part of it. I knew many people involved, and had a small role in it as well. From what I recall, the only “neo-charismatic” moment was when Stacey and Wes Campbell took the stage, and Stacey prophesying with her “hoo-ing” and violent shaking (a normative when she speaks). From what I knew, Mr Osmond didn’t see this as being a yearly event and did not continue them.
In 2006, Faytene picked up the torch, so to speak and to my knowledge, THAT is when many of the other neo-charismatic groups got involved. I attend the next CRY in 2006 with a large group of other young adults who had attended the first. The ’06 event was very different. The night before, the 4mycanada group held a prayer rally at a church in Ottawa with many native people speaking, which I found interesting. But the native theme became very prevalent with the war themes, chanting, drum playing, talk of ancient spirits and things myself, the group I was with, found very uncomfortable. Steve attended the 2006 event in Ottawa, to “pass off the baton” and from what I have heard, has had very limited involvement with it since. Again, I could be wrong, as I no longer run in the PAOC/Charasmatic circles, so I stand to be corrected.
I saw Faytene speak at the Sarnia Revival a few years back, and she knows her Canadian history very well. What she does present is compelling, in that many of the founders of our country had a vision for this to be a Christian nation. What I am skeptical of, is how much of that political rhetoric is what Jesus would really have his followers concentrate on, since he himself seemed to eschew the political system of his day, with an approach that had very little to do with power, coercion or political might. However misguided these individuals may be, they sincerely feel God is calling Canada back to be a Christian nation, and for whatever reason, they sense that it is through the political arena.
I often wonder what it would look like to have a group of pumped of teenagers and young adults this jazzed up about compassionate outreach and acts of service in Christ’s name. Perhaps there would be no need for government involvement to change the laws of the land, because perhaps the love of Christians would change the hearts of man instead.
Elle Pyke
Faytene Kryskow had written an earlier book called ‘The Maple Leaf’ about history and intercessory prayer
Jonathan Evans from the Salvation Army War College in Vancouver said, ‘She’d do these historical prayer walks that were really good’
Now, is the book ‘Stand on Guard’
So, she’s a history buff has a Bachelor of Arts from SFU and no record of any Systematic Theological training
There is a very good Professor of History from UBC named Jean Barman is with the Vancouver Historical Society and I’ve read three of her books
What I’ve learned from Dennis Gruending is this New Apostolic Revolution (NAR) of which, -I’ve never heard about it until now- is kind of scary.
Mentioning on earlier responses about these groups and how I was treated was alarming
May, 2004, went to Worship Invasion at University Chapel at UBC
Then, in May,2004, went to Fresh Fire(Todd Bentley), Abbotsford Pentecostal Assembly,BC, the prayer ministers would wear nametags.
But, there was this half-black,half -white guy from Worship Invasion who always speaks in tongues and slays people in the spirit doing this at Fresh Fire without a nametag. He ran around so fast that he wasn’t easy to see, either he wasn’t supposed to be doing that or he wasn’t showing his nametag or he lost it. One other security person also did not have a nametag
June, 2004 another Worship Invasion Venue at Peace Portal Alliance in Surrey BC
That is when I saw their bad side was either:
-mistaken identity
-a Prophetic Vision not checked out for authenticity
-dirty pool, hit n run, because I look at things closely, they felt threatened I would find them out to be NAR
One quicky said, “Do you know you are never allowed to attend a Fresh Fire Conference again?”
I said, “Why?”
He said, “Because you -prayed over a woman and took the ring off of her finger”
I was just so shocked, this seemed so -off the rails- and froze.
I did no such thing and my experience at Fresh Fire sure wasn’t like what they made it out to be.
I know I didn’t do it and they have to figure it out on their own but they didn’t.
They broke the Law when they slandered me and did not admit it, no apology, nothing.
This is rude, unethical and bad morals on their part.
By the way, they have never again been allowed to have a Venue event again at Peace Portal Alliance
June 2004 went to Extreme Prophetic Vancouver, run by Faytene Kryskow, at the Cordial Hall on E Pender & Templeton in East Vancouver
Faytene knew all about this because they gossiped their slander onto her.
She said, “John Paysar, I don’t like you, you’re on private property we own the building, I rebuke you in the name of Jesus”
I met with Jonathan Evans from the Salvation Army War College and he said, “The building is owned by Killarney Community Center who rents it to the Salvation Army and we let Faytene use the building, it sounds like she has doctrinal issues, she wronged you, she’ll never be allowed to use the building again, she now lives in Ottawa”
Ellen Pyke
I was standing on a public sidewalk when Faytene said, “You’re standing on private property, we own the building”
The side walk is public
The building is owned by Killarney CC
So, I wonder how much she really knows about History
She tried to shove me down the sidewalk
Brother, can you spare a $60,000?
News for those wanting to see The Cry at home. They need $60,000 dollars now to get on to God TV, according to this note on the site promoting the Canadian Oil conference, which precedes The Cry:
(snip)
” ********* SPECIAL NEED ******** The Cry has an immediate need of $60,000 to cover expenses, including live broadcast by GODTV. You can donate at http://thecry.ca/Giving.html ”
(snip)
Rick Hiebert
If you check out my reply#8 is the article in BC Christian News with the names of the persons in the bands at The Cry at Lumbermans’ Arch.
I typed the 1st name on google and it was on My Space
So, I contacted her and all the others through My Space recommending them to access Bene Diction
Heather Clark is the wife of Nolan Clark, I think he’s talked at Fresh Fire, he’s a pastor and a mixed-martial artist
Ellen Pike
Re: Response #14 Steve Osmond PAOC pastor started The Cry in 2002 with Wes & Stacy Campbell
(A Vineyard Pastor mentioned to me how Wes Campbell feels he’s an Apostle)
A book: Anglican Agenda: Questions about the Holy Spirit? by JI Packer mentions about Dr Packer not approving of such groups as the NAR (New Apostolic Revival) Dr J.I. Packer is a Professor of Systematic Theology from Regent College at UBC, Vancouver, BC
Wes & Stacy Campbell were with Kelowna Christian Fellowship but the congregation was struck with ‘Affinity Fraud’ is a problem now facing churches; Someone comes in with all the right Christian tell tale signs with a ‘Great investment opportunity’ which cost the above congregation around 1 million dollars resulting in Wes & Stacy Campbell being removed from ministry. This is sad for all.
We had persons from some security commision talk at our Synod meeting in North Vancouver for the Anglican New Westminister Diocese about Affinity Fraud the talk was very good.
They mentioned a farmer in abbotsford lost all of his property in an Affinity Fraud scheme gone awry.
Wes & Stacy Campbell are involved with the Salvation Army War College Vancouver as well
On another of Dennis Gruending’s blogs type “Faytene Kryskow” and the Salvation Army one will pop up where he mentions to Jonathan Evans flat out about him being NAR (New Apostolic Revival)
So, getting back to where I started, Steve Osmond not seeing this to be a yearly event in 2002 eventually handed over the torch to Faytene Kryskow; Why’s never any mention of this founder on her blogs just The Call as to where the Cry came from. When she held the torch she reformed the Cry along the lines of the Call but did not recognize and give credit to Steve Osmond as the original founder of the Cry before she reformed it along the lines of the Call
Handing over the torch were the words of David Mainse to Faytene Kryskow when she was on his show promoting the Cry at Lumbermans’ Arch this summer Aug 15
I agree with you that Faytene Kryskow has a good knowledge of Canadian History. The Salvation Army War College said the same thing about her how she’d do her prayer walks throughout the Downtown Eastside
Her book ‘Stand on Guard’ is a bestseller, her previous book ‘The Maple Leaf’ had an article about it in the BC Christian News mentioned some of the historical facts she’d dug up were very interesting and good.
Thank you for that information John – It seems that being a Prophet is not in vogue anymore, now everyone wants to be an Apostle. Wonder who will be the first Pope of the Protestant church?
John P.:
The Clarks can be fairly said to be friends of Todd Bentley’s, until the collapse of Lakeland at least. Heather Clark recently released a CD of music perfomed at Lakeland, which is available from Bentley’s private company. Nolan Clark spoke at the Canada Awake meetings of Bentley’s in Vancouver a few years ago when Bentley–entwined in his first “dark night of the soul”–was unable to participate.
Hi John: I deleted your comment – we’re talking about TheCry, not Roman Catholic or Anglican denoninational issues. Please stick to topic. Thank you – BD
J.P. I could just weep right now – weep at what the church has become seemingly metamorphing into something evil right before my eyes, and weep too because I see the Lord still has a precious remnant who have not bent their knees to Baal, diligently searching the scriptures, on guard and watching, diligently seeking Him.
Hi Therese: I’ve edited your comment. Thank you for your compassion toward others, please stick to topic. Thank you – BD
I think these kind of events typically aim for and attract younger believers with all the hype and rock music…without the word and the cross, there is absolutely nothing to help anyone mature in the Lord, and these young people are sitting ducks for deception and evil spirits. What will things be like only a few years from now if this continues?? I am truly wondering how much more evil the Lord will permit in His house – he has already shown me that judgment is falling on the young once again on the threshold of his coming a second time.
“A voice is heard in Ramah, weeping and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children and refusing to be comforted, because they are no more.” Matthew 2:18
Therese
It’s taking advantage of young people and the leaders are serving position, money and success.
The young people are nieve and that’s the way the leaders want it!
Here, I came into the picture in 2004 at Worship Invasion under Ed & Wendy Rubuliak, then Fresh Fire under Todd Bentley and Extreme Prophetic under Faytene Kryskow and they didn’t like someone like me around.
I don’t think the Cry will last much longer.
The Lumbermans’ Arch on Aug 15/09 verses the internet, as we see right now, will result in quite a lively dialogue and debate between -the mature in the Lord- verses the young believers and their leaders.
For the young people at the Cry:
2 Tim 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
That Rock Music at the Cry is not music
That dancing at the Cry is not dancing
When all of this is going on, there’s no way that can think, focus and study.
This is nothing but a feel good, co-dependant environment
The events that have happened to me and probably others too is now not suprising to me given the dynamics who these people run around with.
They are a subculture of an extremist charismatic fringes are also referred to as sects but could be referred to as cults
They are New Apostolic Revolution (NAR) and believe that they are of Apostles and Prophets on the earth today to reocupy the long vacant offices of the Apostles and Prophets on earth
So, they’ll want to draw persons in right away but if one is not 100% convinced about them right away, they’ll want to get the persons out just as fast as how they got them in.
That’s what happened to me in 2004:
-Worship Invasion, Ed & Wendy Rubuliak, when they said, “Do you know you are never allowed to go to a Fresh Fire Conference because you (Prayed over a woman and took the ring off of her finger) ?”.
This happended at Peace Portal Alliance in Surrey where WI was having a venue event. They’ve never had them back since.
-I’d just come from a Todd Bentley Fresh Fire Conference at Abbotsford Pentecostal Assembly and it was ok; But this half black, half white guy from Worship Invasion was up there running around laying hands on persons without a Fresh Fire name tag.
So, no, I did no such thing and for them to say I did is slander. They might’ve had a prophetic vision that did not get checked out to find it wasn’t. Or, they might’ve gotten nervous over the way I check things closely and gotten afraid I’d find them out. Well, after how I was treated, that’s exactly what I did and I did find them out. If, on the other hand, they’d been really nice to me, I might’ve never further investigated and might’v been more sympathetic towards them.
To add insult to injury, Worship Invasion spread this misinformation to Faytene Kryskow at Extreme Prophetic Vancouver. She saw me said, “John Paysar, I don’t like you, you’re on private property, if you don’t leave, we’ll phone the Police, I rebuke you in the name of Jesus”.
This happened at Cordial Hall on Pender and Templeton in East Vancouver. The building is owned by Killarney Community Center, who rented it to the Salvation Army War College, who let Extreme Prophetic use the space. On top of all that, I was standing on a public sidewalk at the time Faytene Kryskow was berating me, calling the public sidewalk, “Private Property”.
If I had done the same thing to her, a woman, I would be charged.
I spoke to someone from the Salvation Army War College and one person said, “She now lives in Ottawa, she wronged you, it sounds like she has doctrinal issues, she will never be allowed to use the Salvation Army War College facilities again”.
Matt 18: 15-17 is about being trespassed against and telling the fault between the two, if not heard, take two or more, if not heard tell it unto the church, if not heard treat as an heathen and a publican.
There was no communication in this and any way to begin with and no idea at the time how to contact them again.
I’d managed to phone the Rubuliaks after no responsed from the e-mails I’d given them with Wendy Rubuliak answering said, “He, (Ed Rubuliak), made a call, we all do that”.
That was no call that he did, she just lied when she said that. That was a very bad judgement call.
On another Bene Diction Blog by typing “Faytene Kryskow”
Faytene said, “I don’t remember this and am too busy for these petty skirmishes”
That is also a lie.
After something going this far is 1 Tim 5: 19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.
There is also Psalm 139: 23-4, Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.
While there are a lot of walkaways from NAR John, many have lost trust, lost faith.
Some are speaking up and I applaud walkaways for doing so.
Yes, NAR is being watched, talked about – it’s important people have an understanding of what adherents and leaders believe and what leadership will do to achieve their goals.
So many people have been harmed, duped, abused, and lost years of their lives following false teaching and teachers. You are a walking testament to freedom from neo-charismatic extra-biblical teaching.
Fortunately, I’d just come across NAR in 2004 without ever hearing about it before.
It was only around a month’s time in May/Junethat I’d gone to Worship Invasion, Fresh fire, then Worship Invasion again, then Extreme Phrophetic.
At first, they give off the impression to me of being really high performance, really alive but at the same time, revealed some bad internal problems is both sad and dangerous.
They drive people away.
The ‘Walkaways’ seem more to me like ‘Drivenaways’ driven away by the groups they went to, the groups that run the show.
That is sad.
Better Buisiness Bureau cannot go into these places because they are Religious Organizations and not businesses.
If they’re a non-denominational sect with not much or no upper government but some ‘mom & pops’ set up, the attendees are sitting ducks.
So the Walkaways/Drivenaways probably go into some sort of distrust/withdrawal mode where they wouldn’t, don’t and if very young and vulnerable, like it seems, are quite a lot of the persons frequenting such places, wouldn’t have the awareness of such blogs as these could be places that would go over their heads.
I’d like to somehow hear more of such persons to speak up and show themselves on blogs like these.
Perhaps, some might feel guilty that they’re doing something wrong by confessing as to what’s happended to them whilst at such places
These Subculture/Cult followings outwardly look quite contemporary but on the insides are very strange and bizarre
The important people watching and talking about having an understanding of what adherents and leaders believe
The leaders do not like died in the wool people like me who come from Old-Line Churches like the Anglican Church because we, in their eyes have too much baggage and are steeped in beliefs, in other words, no room for them to put their beliefs in.
The leaders are controll freaks who really know how to play the system and play lots of head games from manipulation to talking down and controlling by talking fast and moving fast, some know teach mixed-martial arts.
They would rather go for very young vulnerable persons with little to no church affiliation that have lots of room for them to put their beliefs into who are from sheltered, insular, well off families, have spending money, not from tough back grounds, who don’t know how to defend themselves.
The young are easy prey for their trendy contemporary junk food Neo-Charismatic Extra-Biblical Teachings
It must be very hurtful to be accused of something you didn’t do, John P., but it’s so typical to divert attention away from the real issues – I think you’re very courageous to keep hammering away in face of it. This whole cult thing I find ‘interesting’ because I saw something similar take hold around the time I left the Toronto Airport church about 2000, where I had attended since about 1996-97. I’m beginning to clue in that it seems to be a common theme with these neo-charismatic groups.
Therese
But the advantage of this to me is that I got to see very early on what makes these groups tick
A Medical Practitioner at my Church recommended the book:
‘The Scapegoat’ by Rene Girard
Is about the scapegoat mechanism throughout human history.
A problem will start within a group
It is up to the group to solve it
If it can’t, it can take someone in who is a mentor figure
But they don’t
There was also a person who was not allowed in the group
The blame for the problem was put upon that person who neither knew much about the group let alone their problems and its’ origins.
The person the blame is put upon is the Scapegoat
That type of treatment is called Scapegoatism
J.P. – Yes, I attended there for a few years. At first there was a tangible presence, which I took to be the Lord, and still tend to believe it was based on the fact that this presence eventually left the church after they began to idolize “renewal” and put it on a pedestal. I began to notice after a while that I was hungry for the word of God – it seemed there was so much preaching on “renewal” and justifying what was going on there that there was very little preaching of the word, except from some visiting ministries.
I didn’t have much understanding back then and wasn’t sure enough of what I was discerning to be able to really express my concerns. Around the last year or two of my being there, there began to be an emphasis on home cell groups, the leadership wanted the church to transition to this new “model”, which followed the model of another ministry (can’t remember the name, sorry) and made it known they expected every member to belong to a cell group – I tried out a few but never felt the Lord was leading me to one, so I just didn’t go.
Around that time I felt that I was “cut off” from TACF, I can only describe it like feeling like a lifeboat cut adrift from a ship – in retrospect now I believe it may have been the Lord separating me from them. Anyhow, in talking to some people there about how the Lord was not leading me to join a home group, I noticed that the people seemed to be literally deaf to my words and just kept urging me to join their group. I believe I recognized that as a cult “spirit” – and also someone there who had previously rather nastily rejected me for some unknown reason after a period of what I thought was friendship, suddenly was asking me to join the group she and her husband were hosting at their home. There seemed to me also to be an atmosphere of “spiritual social climbing” going on. The worship music had become very lifeless and “hypnotic” as someone else accurately put it, it had become difficult to worship because the Holy Spirit was no longer there and I no longer had the freedom I had before.
They began to emphasize “soaking” and even began promoting and selling “soaking kits”, which I actually assumed at the time was to make up for diminishing donations, as the number of attendees was falling. Even after feeling “cut off” I still hung around for a while and attended services occasionally, still hoping things might turn around. I have never been able to find another church since then that I’ve felt God calling me to, except for a short stint at one church that I’ve commented about on this blog (false prophecy, marketing products on the side). The Lord really began opening my eyes 2 or 3 years ago while I was attending that last church, and especially even more the last couple of years since I stopped going there, I feel He has really restored me to the true gospel and opened the scriptures up to me like never before, and I’ve been a believer since ’87!
I really believe the Lord is calling His people to come out from among them, to “come out of Babylon”, the fleshly apostate church, which is an end time call, but also I believe a call for any time in church history.
Therese
Worship Invasion will be at the Cry at Lumbermans’ Arch
The Moderator is Ed Rubuliak and he’s really crazy
All hyped and psyched up, he’s an obnoxious controll freak
I’m not suprised they will be there
The Cry & Worship Invasion are like two peas in a pod
They really go for younger people
Not much is said at their talks just a lot of outloud music and dancing
The music is so loud at all of these Venue events that the persons who go have a hard time connecting with each other
Do you live in or near Vancouver?
If so, you should investigate and observe but be very discreet
I’d usually stay at the back, off to the side or only close enough so I could see them and they can’t see me
There will be persons there too who’d attended Todd Bentley Fresh Fire
No, I live in the Toronto area. Todd Bentley came to TACF a few times when I was still going there, but for some reason I never felt drawn to his ministry, even though I didn’t know which end was up back then. So the word of God is given short shrift there too, eh? Another common denominator in addition to the cult thing. Truth is thrown to the ground. I’m wondering if the 2 Thess. 2:11 verse, “For this reason (loving not the truth) God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie…”, is talking about this very same cult spirit. “Powerful delusion” seems to be talking about something beyond doctrinal error.
It was eerie when I saw it at TACF – zombie-like inappropriate smile, speaking their mantra – reminds me of the movie, I think it was called the Bedford Wives or something like that, where all the women were turned into soul-less robots. I haven’t been there in ages, so I don’t know what’s happening there lately – I understand they stopped making cell groups ‘mandatory’ so maybe it’s a little better. Well, it all seems to be getting more evil overall, either that or I’m just seeing it more clearly lately by the grace of God.
Thesese
Do you know any others who would like to share their experiences on this blog?
Personally, I do not
But, I noticed that with all the loud music, etc, persons don’t really talk, communicate and connect with each other in those environments
That could be due to the mood set by the organizers
But, out there are probably those who would eventually show themselves on places like these blogs
J.P. – No, I don’t know of anyone, wish I did. There was one friend I spent some time with when I left TACF, she wasn’t happy with some of the things going on there, but I don’t think she came to understand the big picture because she went back.
The atmosphere you speak of sounds like a rock concert, where the people on the stage are “it” and the rest are their idol-worshipers. It’s all about the people on the stage and the sheep are there to serve their purposes.
Therese: Your comment has been edited – stick to topic and to the conversation you are having with others. Thanks – BD
I am don’t want to do a hit and run comment on this topic, that seems to continue to foster discussion. I took a look at another posting Bene had on Faytene and it seems she apologized about 3 or 4 times for the incident that happened with John. She even asked to go out for coffee and sort it out. I am not a supporter of some of the things that go on with that group, but, for what it is worth, it appears that she at least tried to rectify the situation.
As a Christ-follower, even if we deem people’s theology dangerous, even if we disagree on their methods, or even if we have been hurt, we are still called to walk in love. This is easier said than done, but it is still a truth that Jesus teaches us.
I feel terrible for what you experienced John, but I would hate to see an incident like this, after all these years, still cause you hurt and pain. I think it is a huge blessing that you were able to leave and maybe this whole topic has come back up for you to make sure you have truly forgiven what happened in your heart, and walk in that restoration and healing that only Christ can bring.
Ellen Pyke
Faytene Kryskow said to me we own a building they don’t own and called a public sidewalk private property, tried to shove me down the sidewalk after Worship Invasion gossiped the slander to her I prayed over a woman and took the ring off of her finger at Fresh Fire, Abbotsford which I didn’t do. Both groups could’ve had the commitment and ownership to resolve the situation on the spot but didn’t want to.
It was either a case of mistaken identity or not a checked out vision.
Or they became nervous of my usual way of looking at things closely felt checked out and made this up to get rid of me.
She mentioned some apologetic words and phrases but can’t remember the incident
Is she really apologizing, can she really not remember?
These Blogs were set up to investigate and bring this situation into the open with the help of Dennis Gruending and others, like myself commenting on this blog.
Dennis Gruending & Lieghton Tebay mentioned about:
-with the crowd she runs around with is not suprised what happened to me and others
-The NAR New Apostolic Revolution, Dominionism and or Apostolic Prophetic Movement
-The authoritarian dynamics of Dominionism
-Many have been with these groups for years and been badly hurt
-her hit n run attitude but not just her
-not buying she just happended to come across this blog but sorry it went over her head
I’d e-mailed Bene Diction to the Salvation Army War College is how she found out
-her Iron Fist in a Velvet Glove, smiles and nice words
-her calling this a Petty Skirmish and I can”t even remember but oh well anyways I’m sorry
-this is beyond a petty skirmish and there have been others
-about her having doctrinal issues is an understatement
-going for the young,vulnerable and convinced but rejecting them if they are not convinced
-This has gone beyond Matt 18 to 1 Tim 5 about rebuking elders
-I’d only been to 1 Worship Invasion, 3-4 days of Fresh Fire Abbotsford, 1 Worship Invasion, 1 Extreme Prophetic is about a 1 month period but couldn’t believe what I saw.
-I go to a lot of Lectures and Documentaries, etc and things usually go well
It’s very strange, when an ordinary sheep expresses a problem with a shepherd, how the ordinary sheep’s issues suddenly become so much more important than those of the shepherd who is potentially leading many, many sheep astray to their spiritual demise. How could one little sheep in no danger suddenly become so much more important than whole flocks in great danger? Every single time.
I thought that the reason J.P. mentions this incident was in order to warn people about the true character of a wolf in sheep’s clothing, of course I could be wrong, but hey, what about that wolf anyhow??
Well Therese, Jesus did speak about the Shepard leaving the whole flock for just the one. I think each sheep is infinitely precious to God, and that He is concerned with every single one. The sheep’s issues don’t become bigger than the wolves. They are each equally important. Especially if that sheep needs some healing from a bad wolf attack. I believe everyone’s issues and situations are real and important to God.
I think that JP did a great job of sharing his concerns and warning others. I appreciate him sharing what happened, and telling others to be discerning. I have had many dealings, many, many, many with this group and have warned others as well about what I have experienced. I also use to attend TACF. I am well versed with many of the people who are apart of this movement.
My comment wasn’t to hush JP, it was to share that Faytene did indeed apologize. I believe it isn’t our job to judge the hearts of men or women, so her motives are not left for us to dicpher. My point really wasn’t about Faytene, as much as it was directed to JP and hoping that his heart was healed from what happened.
In my opinion. the beautiful and precious sheep can share as often as they need to, to as many people as they need to, but the sheep are also held responsible for how they react, even to the bad things that may happen to them. Sheep also need to forgive.
Wasn’t it Jesus himself who said “Father forgive them?” If JP feels the need to write over and over again what happened, in detail, that is 100% up to him. But in my opinion Bene’s blog doesn’t just exist to bring wolves into the light, it also to seek restoration and healing for those sheep who have been hurt. And, in my humble opinion, forgiveness is an important part of that healing.
I am not interested in telling anyone what to do, or start a back and forth debate. If the people here conversing feel that Faytene should still be talked about regarding this particular incident, it isn’t my blog to tell them not to. My comment wasn’t to stop shedding light on false gospels, it was to comment that even those we deem as “wolves” or as Jesus put it “enemies” that we still called to love them, with word and deed.
This may be hard to do when people have hurt us, or when those same people are pontentially hurting others. Love is a higher law, and I sincerly believe that is what God calls us to. Love can still call people to the carpet for their actions, or call out when others are being hurt. But it is always to be done in a loving and gentle way and forgiveness always needs to be given.
At least that is what I get from the Gospels that I read.
And JP, my name is not Ellen Pyke, but I will assume you were writing in response to E. So I took that to be me
I think you are all missing the point. What if God shows up and people start to get saved, healed, changed, delivered? Changing their lives for the better. Coming back to Christ. I fear you are making this far too complex and that you should all go there tomorrow and ‘check it out’. If more people took a stand for Christ, no matter how it looked, there would be more Christians in Canada, more of the gifts of the Holy Spirit manifest on earth and less evil. Simple but true. Read the bible. It’s a good guideline for life!
I work with people who were former murders, drug addicts, pros, street people and business people and politicians alike. We all need Christ. I see miracles in their lives daily. This is where Jesus walked. Do you minister to anyone and everyone?
Get real. Get simple. Do what you should to help people and watch God save lives. Literally.
This may seem militant to some, but it’s getting your attention, isn’t it?
We don’t always agree with the vehicle God uses to get his word across. But what if lives are changed? Praise God from whom ALL blessings flow.
Hi Therese – Got off topic there, comment deleted – BD
Hi Josie:
“If more people took a stand for Christ, no matter how it looked, there would be more Christians in Canada, more of the gifts of the Holy Spirit manifest on earth and less evil. Simple but true.”
Agreed, that’s not the problem. The Spirit will move as He wills.
It is also evil to teach another gospel, to add to the book, to deceive, snare; to take away from God molding us into the image and likeness of His Son.
“This may seem militant to some, but it’s getting your attention, isn’t it?”
Yes, it is. NAR has received world-wide attention from Christians.
Extra-biblical heresy get’s a lot of people’s attention, thank God. This isn’t about militancy, it is about deviation from God’s word and from the person of Jesus Christ. It is about causing little ones to stumble, it is about what Jesus says is the kingdom of God, it is as pointed out above, fruit.
“We don’t always agree with the vehicle God uses to get his word across. But what if lives are changed?”
Indeed we don’t, and it is foolish and vain to expect otherwise.
However, I think you are missing the point.
To twist scripture, to lie, to deceive, to entrap, to preach anything other than Christ crucified, dead, buried and risen is to be called out.
Ellen Pyke
I don’t feel Faytene Kryskow’s apology is genuine
She has a way with sweet smiles, words and an iron fist in a velvet glove
Her apology is her velvet glove but under that is the iron fist
She wants one to think she’s nice but she’s not nice
I’m under the impression now she’s done this to a number of mainly young and vulnerable persons at different Venue events, at various locations not connected to each other with no consequences, The Better Business Bureau cannot go into religious groups, until now and it is about time this should stop. This is not a personal shut on shut off thing with her.
I feel she willingly does not want to remember what she did in order to keep her image clean and to heck with anybody else’s
These grooups seems to be quite protective of and unwilling to admit they’re NAR (New Aplostolic Revolution) would blow their Evangelical non-denominational image to smitherines resulting in not being allowed to Venue affecting the offering pots
Before the responses Polycarp: Lou Engle urges Americans to invade Canada for God is not at all impressed with the theology of these groups
On the other Blog ‘Credit where Credit is Due’ it seemed that Dennis Gruending and Leighton Tebay weren’t too impressed with her way with words either.
They also quite well analysed the authoritarianism of Dominionism and New Apostolic Revolution
These groups are a subculture of an extremist charismatic fringe and or sect to begin with, add on Apostolic Prophetic Movement, New Apostolic Revolution, Extra-Biblical, their Theology and how they admit it.
With the above mentioned by me, Polycarp, Credit Where Credit is Due, I don’t think myself or anybody could trust or believe what they say is true.
I think, the fact seems to be, these groups like to hide their true beliefs and these blogs bring their beliefs into the open help to hone more persons’ discernments
E Res#42 “And JP my name is not Ellen Pyke”
The 1st time I clicked it read Elle Pyke which I typed then later made a typo Ellen Pyke, sorry, thank you for bringing it to my attention.
This CRY event is nothing more than a whole lot of deception. How can they call down a blessing from God on this nation and it’s leaders who won’t even entertain the issue of the multiple thousands of aborted preborn infants.
How can they think that they even have a hearing with Our Father when they don’t first call for personal repentance? Where was the Cross of Jesus Christ….His blood shed for our sin…???
I just watched most of the “show” on God TV (for free!!!)
Looks like a paltry turnout of a max. 200 people (and I’m being generous here).
If people are obedient to Christ’s commission of preaching the gospel to all creation we will see a revival. I don’t see that here.
And, I know a couple of people who attended, who have criticized me for doing exactly that, seeking the lost so God can save them. This event is all about worshiping their faith…not God!
Preach the gospel…God WILL save them!
And what is with all the “gum chewing” on stage. How tacky is that?
Kat:
The turnout was low, the GodTV cameras kept it tight, but if you said 1500 max during a peak time, you’d be generous – according to someone else who attended.
Far cry from the minimum expectation of 5 thousand in the pre event press release carried by Charisma mag, Christianity.ca and David Virtue.
I’m shocked that there was a possible 1500 people there. I watched several hours of it, and it never looked like more than 200.