Todd Bentley: The Webinar

By Rick Hiebert 2009 Used by permisson. All rights reserved

Todd Bentley, the Canadian-born evangelist, finally sat down to field questions from the public via an Internet “webinar” on Thursday September 10, 2009, shortly after 9 PM Eastern time. You can tell, however, that he wasn’t fielding questions from reporters. And the “answers”, as is so often the case with Bentley, raise even more questions in turn.

The webinar is on Todd’s website as the top item under The Instant Streaming Audio section. This post however, works off the raw audio feed as it was broadcast live that evening. (There may be some differences in the two, one that you can spot right away is that the directions for webinar participants, by one of Bentley’s assistants, weren’t broadcast over the Internet due to a signal failure, but it appears in the version as saved on the website.)
It might remind you of an infomercial in that it has the barest of specifics, if any. It is designed so that you will sign up now. Operators are standing by.
Mr. Bentley began with one of the themes of the videos that he has been making with Rick Joyner.

“Restoration. Restoration is a process and I’m in a process. God is a wonderful healer and I’ve been having some of the best days of my life, really,” Bentley said. He then continued with an argument that everyone needs to be restored by God in some way. “And that’s my prayer. God restore my soul. Not just my mind, will and emotions. Restore my relationships, restore my family.”

[This raises the question of how this can be done, given that Bentley is now divorced from his first wife, Shonnah. He now lives in North Carolina, on the opposite end of the United States from Abbotsford B.C. where his family lives. He mentions later in the webinar that he only meets with Joyner periodically right now, which raises the question of why Bentley doesn't live someplace like Sumas, Washington, where he can be an active parent of his three children. You know, do their laundry, feed them dinner, help with their homework. Be a real parent. But instead, he lives on the other side of the U.S.A.  So much for Bentley putting himself in a position to allow God to answer this prayer.]

[As this is being written, Bentley has just put up an entry on his blog discussing a recent vacation trip to New York City. So, if he cared to go to Northern Washington state to devote himself to his kids, money is not a barrier. And if he wanted to devote himself to study, as he says he is doing, the Vancouver B.C. area has fine libraries, theological schools and a Christian university not far from his old house. He could read up on theology, as he says he wants to do, and be home in time to make his kids dinner and do their laundry.]

He continues, explaining what ‘restoration’ would mean to him.

“Restoration means to bring back to the place for your former condition. That’s what I want God. Not only do I want to be back in the place that I was, but beyond. I’m not only going back, I’m going beyond ’cause the glory of the latter house shall be greater than the former house.”

[If God intends that Bentley be restored to relationship with Him, but do something else with his life, Bentley has just told the Lord that he will refuse to listen to what He said. He is also refusing to listen to those Christians who fear, for various reasons,  that he was never suited for evangelist work in the first place. Charismatics often  complain about putting God in a box, but it would seem that Todd Bentley is dictating to God what answers to his prayers are appropriate and which are not.]

“If a man dies, will he live again?” That’s the question we are asking tonight. Can a man that has died lived again? And I believe that he can,” Bentley says in reference to himself.
Bentley then admits that some of his failures have been very public, and then turns to passages in Jeremiah and Job which he thinks apply to his case.

“God will restore Peter. God will restore David. God will restore Israel, God will restore You, God will restore me. We must believe and call forth the ministries of restoration in this hour”

[God will restore Saul, God will restore Judas Iscariot. Er, strike that. Seems that repentance is involved, and that Bentley needs to begin with that before restoration can take place.]

Bentley cites the problematic interpretation of Galatians 6:1 that his friend Rick Joyner has been using. He then goes on to say that he feels a need for constant repentance in his own life:

“I’ll never be good enough. I”ll never be righteous enough. I’m just pressing towards the mark, I’m learning from my mistakes. I’m repenting of my sin and I’m admitting my failures and I’m humbling myself, one, before the Lord. My repentance has been over the past year, over and over again. Two, my repentance has been before my leaders in accountability.”

Bentley, you’ll remember, willingly came into a formal leadership “covering” under the leadership of C. Peter Wagner’s group and then, in a later video, tried to lie his way out of it by saying that nothing took place. Rick Joyner is probably the next to be thrown under the bus if he thwarts Bentley’s plans in any way.

“My repentance has been public in some of my videos. There’s been over 24 videos.”
“I know that in the future that God’s going to anoint me to be one who restores.”

This allows us to look at a rhetorical trick that Bentley and his friend Rick Joyner have used over and over again. If you throw on one of their videos, they will say something like “We”re going to answer some questions”, without actually answering questions. Bentley will say that he is going to repent of something, without actually doing it.

Bentley uses this trick for two reasons. First, he is assuming that you will not pay close attention to his statements, and assume that saying that he is about to do something is the same as actually doing it. Secondly, he is keeping in mind his audience. Some Charismatics are happy with pretty well any sort of action or statement from someone who has “the power.” Others are more conservative and careful, judging statements and activity by careful use of the Bible. Bentley’s vague non-apologies allow people from either ‘side’ of his audience to assume that he is apologizing for the issue that they are most concerned about. He can give the impression that he is going to ‘apologize’ for something that would dismay a ‘conservative’ while not alienating the ‘liberal’ in his audience who thinks that that is nothing to apologize for. Cunning as a fox, he keeps the unwary of both “sides’ supporting him.

How can we judge whether he is repentant when you have to guess what he is repenting of? How can we judge whether he is truly sorry for his ‘mistakes’ when he invites us to assume that they are whatever we assume them to be, and not something that can be objectively measured against the Bible and what it teaches?

A repentant statement would be something like this, pointed and specific. A hypothetical example would be: “When I was in Lakeland, I made the statement from the stage that God had told me that He wanted 1,000 donors to donate $1,000 towards the building of a site for the revival. I have since admitted to my associates that that was untrue. God never said that to me. I lied to you and I apologize for that lie.”

It’s funny that even though he has been ‘repenting’ for over a year, Bentley finds himself unable to make frankly contrite statements like this.  Of course, if he made a series of honest statements like this, this might lead people to think ‘This Bentley fellow lies like a rug’,which would play havoc with his plans to return to ministry.

Bentley continues with a discussion of events at Lakeland. Naturally, a question uppermost on the minds of many is, “Were there any documented miracles?”
Bentley says:

“Were there any people that we know were healed by doctor’s reports and medical reports. We do have those. People have asked me, ‘Todd, do you have the doctor’s reports?’  Of course after everything was over in Lakeland and I resigned from Fresh Fire Canada, the ministry in Abbotsford, and I’ve been in a season of restoration, I myself don’t have those documents, but I know that they are still being put together and there’s been an investigation and that’s gonna be available. You’re gonna hear more about that later. There were healings though. And yes, there were resurrections from the dead. I don’t have all the numbers, but the important thing is, God knows.”

Did you notice that Todd said that he had the materials and then that he did not almost in the same breath?
What happened to the package for materials that was given to the reporters from the ABC program Nightline, from which they were unable to confirm that medically validated miracles took place? Bentley, you’ll recall, pulled himself off the stage for a night, needing an ‘immediate rest’ after the program aired. Given that their debunking of his work would certainly come up again in the future, wouldn’t it be wise to hold onto this material? Unless, of course, you realized that it was a house of cards that would topple in the lightest media breeze. Which means that you need another set of ‘miracles’ to bring forward. That is what Bentley’s staff is doing now.

Is it reasonable to ask Bentley for this? Well, when you recall the Biblical story of the ten healed lepers, you’ll remember that Christ did not get indignant and insist that they were healed without a confirmation. They were sent to a rabbi to be examined, and it, moreover, was Christs idea. So asking for medical confirmations for healings is Biblical.

Bentley then cited the Internet outreach of the events at Lakeland, and claimed that during the revival he preached for 127 consecutive nights. (Can we get a fact-check on that?)
“We want to remember that revival and say that it isn’t over, and as we talk about the future and [hear] ˜Todd are you coming back to ministry?’
Bentley said:

“I’m making plans to see that revival move to England, to Australia, to visit many of the cities that we planned to [while] in Lakeland.”
“It’s been a bump in the road. It’s been a time out. I thank God that I’m in the season that I’m in right now so that God can get done in me what He needs to get done so that we can continue to see what we saw in Lakeland spread all over the Earth.”

He makes a passing reference to his website, suggesting that if any of his viewers had a question, more often than not,  the question has already been answered. Why the question-and-answer portion of the webinar then? (Viewers of the videos looking for concrete and frank answers to their questions will probably be disappointed.)

“We are gonna take trips to the nations at one point.”

When is that gonna happen?” he adds.

“At this point, it’s day by day, week by week. We’re listening to the Lord. I’m just resting. I’m just spending time in His presence, reading a lot of books, meditating in the word, just enjoying life; it’s been over a year, and I’m still saying God cleanse me.”

Those who are skeptical of Bentley may detect a note of forthrightness in what he says next:

“You know, people have asked me, Todd are these videos that you are doing with Rick [Joyner]  is it just to get you back into ministry? Is that the whole goal? Well, yeah! I do want to fulfill the call of God but the restoration process isn’t just a end to a means [sic], a means to an end just to get me into ministry again. I love Jesus first and foremost, I love my family.”

“Well, yeah” was spoken with a subtext of  ”well, duh!” by the way.

One would think that a spectacular failure would lead most people to think that they weren’t suited for the job of a world-famous evangelist in the first place. Is that the case with Bentley? Well, we see no evidence of rethinking on his part. It’s all full speed ahead.
Bentley then implies that having a huge organization contributed to his collapse. “Over 70, 80, 100 employees, television’ I’m not going to preach 300 meetings a year again.”

He is counting on his listeners not having paid close attention to him again. The latest records available from Fresh Fire Ministries from Canada’s taxation employees reveals that his ministry from 2008 -bear in mind the name change -lists 20 full time employees and seven part time employees for the year of the Lakeland revival.

Here is the link to the 2008 Canadian tax returns for Bentley’s old ministry.

Something else  is interesting in these listingsthe Canada Revenue Agency (Canada’s IRS) lists that Fresh Fire Ministries which Transform International was before the name change–took in $8,076,116 Canadian in Total Revenue and spent in Total Expenditures $ 4,912,252 Canadian.

Is Transform International sitting with over $3 million in the bank?

What happened to it?

Bentley would almost certainly have been the employee earning between $80 and $120,000 Canadian per year in the CRA listings. So, when he took the stage in Lakeland and said  ”I’m only getting a salary”; Well, what a salary!

Bentley, under provincial law in British Columbia, would have been owed his vacation pay on leaving his job. Severance pay, when let go without cause is also the norm in Canada.
Also, a gift of $95,000 Canadian to qualified donees is listed there as well. Bentley, one may guess, was perhaps given a years pay to leave quietly.
Bentley was never really on television. GOD TV filmed what he was already doing, so there was no extra energy expended on his part.

Preaching at 300 meetings a year is an overstatement. He did travel and teach extensively, but at the time, Fresh Fire Ministries sent out his itinerary regularly. It revealed, to those who were on his e-list that at the most he would be involved with one conference per week. At most. Often there would be several weeks in between engagements. He did work, but a Google cache of his itinerary would reveal no harder than many evangelists do.

Continuing his arguments that he was overworked, Bentley adds that he is vowing not to make the same mistake again. (Longtime observers of Bentley will remember that his ‘Dark Night of the Soul” in 2005-2006, also blamed on overwork, resulted in an extramarital affair that Bentley says made their marriage touch and go from then on. Would his adultery with Jessa as the old governing board of his former ministry put it be the second example of this sort of thing happening?)

Bentley also said that he does not have the time to answer all the questions regarding his divorce and remarriage, so he plans to put a statement up on his website, which makes it almost a year and counting now for some of those wanting to know what went on.

The evangelist is accepting invitations to speak, and says that he will go wherever the ‘the Lord’ sends him. Bentley added that he is tempted to go back to his roots and speak to smaller churches of 200-500 people as he is led. (What may be happening is that these might be the only bookings that he expects to field, smaller churches hoping against hope that they will be able to get the ‘star of Lakeland’ to preach. Also, at smaller churches, he is more likely to be received with less criticism and more awe.)
People seem to be noticing, as noted above in the Canadian tax authority’s return for Bentleys old charity for the year of Lakeland, 2008, that the revival took in a lot more money than it spent. (The CCRA seems to note a $3 million surplus for Transform International Fresh Fires new name–for last year.)

Bentley’s response? “I didn’t make my millions.”

“I didn’t get any money from the offerings at Lakeland…Some months later they [the old Fresh Fire board] decided that they wanted to make a one time donation,”

Bentley implies that at one time he was down to his last $20 as he gave up all his personal property to Shonnah Bentley in the divorce.
The evangelist has referred to getting ‘Pentecostal handshakes’ before Lakeland. That is, someone shakes your hand and gives you money in their palm. If we note that later on in the webinar that Bentley complained that at Lakeland he was continually asked to meet partners, revival participants and ministers, which cut down on his prayer time, we can wonder if there were lots of opportunities for people to say “Here, Todd, buy something for your kids. Here, Todd, buy yourself something”, and give Bentley personal donations that never made it into the collection plate. If he was spending time outside of the services prayer for people, and they happened to give something  to him ‘for the revival’, how much of that made it into the collection plates?

We have his annual salary of, let’s say $100,000 Canadian.
The $95,000 Canadian gift from the ministry to the ‘qualified donee’ was likely to Todd.
Add an unknown amount of money in ‘Pentecostal handshakes’ or other unclaimed benefits (“Let me buy you lunch”, “Why don’t you and your new wife stay with us for free?”)
This adds up to Todd Bentley going through $200,000 in a year and a half.
This doesn’t count personal property and assets squirreled away in a banks safety deposit box, say, that Shonnah Bentley might never have known of.

The $20 story, then. What has Bentley been spending his money on?

Talk of finances in the webinar naturally leads to whether Bentley is paying support to his ex-wfe and children. Bentley says he is “taking care of them as God enables me.” (With trips to Kansas City and New York City, let alone trips that we may not know about, we can assume that such payments are timely and plentiful from Bentley, right?)
“I’m involved in my children’s life. I can have as many video conferences, Skype as I want,” says Bentley. And how many does he want? How often are they?

“I’m able to go to Canada and have free access with my children,” he adds.

Has he?

How many times?

(This raises the question of whether Bentley is a landed immigrant in the U.S. now. Given his burden in the past, think of his Canada Awake tour of a few years ago to see Canadians saved, Canadians might wonder why Bentley feels the need to become an American. Of course, the answer is that is where the big money is in the charismatic wing of Christianity is, but Bentley owes Canadians an explanation of the switch, given that Americans already have lots of workers and evangelists while in Canada, relatively speaking, the harvest is plentiful and the workers are fewer. This entire issue is ducked in the webinar.)

Bentley mentions, in another place in the webinar, that he only meets with Rick Joyner every week at most, usually. What about Bentley moving to Washington state, as places where Bentley has ministered in the past, and even did preparatory work for starting a church plant, are only a 30 minute drive from Abbotsford B.C.? Instead of being merely a vacation host for his children, he could help his kids with their homework, take them to church, make them dinner, do their laundry; all the things that a fully involved parent does. Isn’t his new wife Jessa interested in taking part in their lives as a stepmom? Someone who is interested in the “healing of his family” as Bentley professes to be, would be thinking in this way. Does he have to be on the other side of the country from his kids? Or does he want to? Has Joyner, at this time in his restoration,  suggested a move to be closer to his kids?

We are now well into the question and answer section of the webinar and the next query was about balancing forgiveness with the need to live with the consequences of one’s sin. I’m dealing with guilt and shame was Bentley’s answer, but I have overcome it. “God, I’ve lost it all. And nobody did it to me. It was my own foolish mistakes.” While citing his alleged overwork, he made sure to mention that he had just felt the Holy Spirit.

“2005 was when my marriage fell apart. It wasn’t Lakeland, but back in 2005 we were on the verge of divorce.”

(Left unmentioned was the fact that this was due to an affair with a different lady, whose name has circulated amongst Bentley’s internet critics and has had nothing to do with Bentley for some time.)

“People asked, What about Jessa?  Jessa wasn’ t in the picture, I didn’t know a woman named Jessa,”

Very shrewd from Bentley. He takes the fact that Jessa wasn’t the one that he had an affair with in 2005 and uses that to make his listeners doubt that he has ever had an extramarital affair. If people mess up and confuse the two incidents, such confusion can be used to ‘prove’ that Bentley has no no extramarital affairs, instead of two.

A little later comes a question about his tattoos and what they really mean. Speculation was rife during the Lakeland events that his tattoos were actually satanic. Bentley’s frankness and detail in denying during the webinar means only that he realizes that he has a straw man that he can easily knock over.

“They are all religious tattoos. I’m not taking this body to heaven with me anyways. I didn’t have a motive; Motive is everything. It’s just art. I don’t think that whether I have art in my skin has anything to do with my salvation.”

If we obey one letter of the law [in not getting tattoos], take off that cotton T-shirt, don’t eat bacon and when your wife has her period, ‘send her out of the camp for seven days.
I’m not under the law. I’m not prepared to live under any of those things. I’ m sorry I got them. It’s been a few years now,”

Many Christians do get tattoos. What we need to recall, however, is why the Israelites were told not to have them. The surrounding peoples did use tattoos, cutting the skin–as part of their religious life. Motive is all-important, of course, but Jewish laws having to do with religious practice should give more pause than the ones saying don’t cook an owl on your barbecue and eat it.

Bentley’s getting of tattoos was probably not a sin, but it was perhaps unwise. As a public figure and minister, why have the sorts of tattoos that could be misread and misunderstood? Has Bentley decided to have cosmetic surgery to get rid of the tattoos that he is ‘sorry’ that he now has?

Bentley is being dishonest here. He got his tattoos in 2006, which is not ‘years ago’ for those wanting to think that they date from his pre-Christian days (as many around the time of Lakeland did). At the time he had a blog on MySpace, which has since been scrubbed. However, a post on his tattoos was saved from August 2006, in which Bentley’s tattoos are explained by one of his assistants.

“This is what Todd feels”, was added to the post. “For us as Christians, living under the covenant of grace and the law of love, whether someone gets a tattoo or not is between them and God. They need to take it to God and hear from Him whether it’s right for them or not. God’s concerned with the heart motive of why people get tattoos rather than the act itself. He wants people to do all things, even getting tattoos, with a right heart motive and for the right reasons. So, if someone feels like they can, in clear conscience before God, get a tattoo, then it is not forbidden. If someone cannot get a tattoo in clear conscience, they they should not. However, no other Christian can judge others who get tattoos, because we don’t know people’s heart motives–only God knows.”

Todd then begins to describe his tattoos with notes like:

This tattoo is of the Star of David – and the Hebrew writing on either side says King David this is significant to me because my dads name is David and King is my family name on my mothers side.
“This is my most recent tattoo got it in Hawaii this week when I was there with my wife for holidays. It says Yeshua, Ruach, Yahweh Yeshua = Jesus, Ruach = the hot firey breath of God, Yahweh = God. It has the harvest wheat running through it. I wanted the triune God bound around my neck.”
“This arm piece consists of many tattoos. The fire around the wrist then goes into the Star of David, and then goes into a scene from Revelation 4:7 the 4 living creatures which are surrounded by the eyes and wings. The next part is the 3 crowns cast down before the throne which have my 3 kids names on them; Lauralee, Esther and Elijah.”
“Then on the back of that arm is the sun on my elbow (that hurt so much, had to get it done twice), a portrait of Jesus up top, and I have the crown of thorns around my arm, piercing my skin. (this was my first tattoo ever!) Then you see the eyes and wings as well. Then we have Jesus coming out of the Secret Place surrounded by the glory of God.”

Bentley continues in similar manner describing his 25 tattoos in language that states emphatically that they had personal or Christian significance for him. And now they mean nothing to him once they have been publicly questioned? It’s interesting to see Bentley maintain the courage of his convictions here.
A question on the mind of Bentley’s listeners was when they could expect to see his doctrine of divorce and remarriage.

“Shortly I’d like to have it [up on his website] tomorrow [Septmber 11], next week [September 13 to 19]“

Readers can check on his website to see if this promise to his listeners was kept.

Not surprisingly, Bentley planned to argue that, “if you are remarried God can use you.”
The next listener question asked whether, “the bitterness between you and Shonnah had been resolved.”

In replying, Bentley mentioned that he actually had a marriage counselor with him in Lakeland, and they met weekly while the revival was going on. (This while he was reduced to spending only a hour per day with his family, engaged in all these meetings with pastors and donors, engaged in all these media encounters that never took place.)
“I had a clear conscience in my heart that I did everything that I could,” he said.
(Really, what else do you expect him to say?)

His following remarks need to be quoted at length:

“I did get remarried. Because I believe that it is better to get remarried than to burn. I said, God, I’m in love. This woman is in love with me. God I want to honour you; I;m going through a season of restoration. I want the love of my life to stand with me and support me and it’s gonna happen anyways. I’m gonna get married now.” That may not have been the best decision at the time for all of you, but today I’m very happy. I’ve never been this happy. Sorry for you to hear that. I am happy. Very happy. And I’m glad that I have the lady of my life today that I have today and that doesn’t mean that I dishonour Shonnah. I love her, we’re moving on and I ask you to move on with me.”

Some comments on this:
One; at the time that he and Jessa married, which was very quickly after the laws for no-fault divorce in Bentley’s home province of British Columbia allow, they had been in a relationship strong enough to allow Bentley to say that she was “the love of his life”. This proves that Bentley was dating Jessa – if not more – while still legally married to Shonnah.
Two; if we recall that Bentley and Jessa had, supposedly, no relationship at Lakeland. This means that this relationship came out of nowhere. How plausible is this?
Three; note the chilling language from Bentley that should probably be edited from the webinar feed on his website. I’m happy, and if you don’t like it, too bad. He also tells God in his alleged prayer that the marriage with Jessa “is gonna happen anyways.” Guess that God is going to have to deal with it. No miraculous getting back together with the mother of his kids.

Bentley does admit that he remarried quickly. (But, speaking ironically, if you want him to be ‘happy’,”and isn’t that the superior guideline for moral decisions for any Christian, why quibble?)

“Now I’m guilty of getting into a relationship too quick. I’ve had to repent and say, God, it was wrong the way that I did it. It was messy. But thank God it is today, and not yesterday,”

(Anybody brazen enough to dictate to God whether he will remarry shouldn’t worry about when, perhaps.)
The next question asks about what, practically, Bentley will do to ensure that he doesn’t fall again? Bentley replies that his friends, who have told him that they won’t restore him umpteen times, will kick his butt. Also, he won’t adopt the same schedule.

“My new wife won’t have it, wherever I got my wife will go with me, she’s gonna be at my side.”

(After two extramarital affairs by Bentley, one involving Jessa, one has to conclude that she is a smart lady to insist on this!)

Bentley promised, by the way, to answer many of the unanswered questions online, in a ‘top 20 or top 30′ most asked questions page on his website. Has he done it yet?

The last question that Bentley took asked what parts of the Lakeland revival were fleshy. Replying, Bentley said that in April and May 2008, when the revival was purest, he spent a lot of time in prayer. But as the revival got busier he spent hours dealing with the media and meeting with friends, associates and pastors. “There were days that I spent only 1 hour with my family,” he complained. Prayer suffered.

Oh? Then why does Stephen Strader, pastor of Ignited Church, which hosted the revival, write in his book on Lakeland that he never could get to talk to Bentley for weeks at a time?
The media coverage of the revival was sparse, comparatively speaking, until things started to collapse and by that time Bentley wasn’t speaking to anyone.
Nothing prevented him from taking time off. Indeed, he was able to take a day off at short notice right after the ABC Nightline expose aired. Bentley says about Lakeland:

“It became too much of a marketplace. Too much marketing. Too much promotion. It was like a circus. Everybody wanted a table. Everybody wanted and I thought we’ve gone from the revival to building something and I don’t want to build something.”

Viewers of GOD TV may have gained that impression on the night that Bentley said that God had told him that He wanted 1,000 to give $1,000 each towards the building of a facility for the revival. It turns out that Bentley admitted to his friends that God had said no such thing, so this particular part of the webinar would have been a great time to publicly apologize for that. No apology was given.

Speaking of marketing and promotion, Bentley then, his last question answered, went on to promote a $30 package of materials, a ‘healing bundle’ that he wanted to sell listeners through his website. He cited his ‘partners area’ of his website, accessible only to those who had paid $25 US once in donations to his ministry.

He closed with a time of non-specific prayer for his listeners. “I’m praying that sometime in the next year,” that he would start preaching again.
Whether he should, given the sorts of things he said in the webinar, is perhaps an open question in the minds of some.

About Bene Diction

Have courage for the great sorrows, And patience for the small ones. And when you have laboriously accomplished your tasks, go to sleep in peace. God is awake.
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31 Responses to Todd Bentley: The Webinar

  1. Rick Hiebert says:

    Thanks BD. Hopefully this will be of interest or use to your readers…

  2. Nothing has changed at all. Todd Bentley is still a liar, a thief, an adulterer, a deceiver and not a true man of God at all!

    It’s unfortunate that some fools still believe that he has something to offer!

  3. Therese says:

    He hasn’t changed a bit – still the same old manipulative, evasive, deceitful ways. Not a sign of remorse, brokenness, or insight into his own problems. To me he’s exposed here as only looking out for #1. He still badly needs therapy – is Rick Joyner any kind of a qualified Christian therapist? Apparently whatever he’s been doing with T.B. has been a failure because absolutely nothing has changed. Restoration means to restore back to the image God had in mind before the created thing went haywire. Todd Bentley is not restored. I think this time all he will have left is a cult following, if he has anything – unfortunately there always seems to be those willing to follow cult leaders and can’t see the truth even when it slaps them in the face – BAM! – but the Way of Jesus Christ of Nazareth it is not. They’re going to get back the same rapid-fire auctioneer peddling his wares to a manipulated crowd that they had before. And I’m very sorry if the world looks at that insane spectacle and blames Jesus. Maybe God will have mercy and not let things get off the ground this time, or at least shut it down sooner if it does get started.

  4. Gordy says:

    One thing the devil is, is brazen. Todd Bentley is brazen. All of his lip-service “repentance” is an abomination. There is no fruit meet for repentance; it’s nothing but one self-justification after another. Let this man put away his strange woman. This religious con artist has no ministry.

    And his so-called “restorers” are no better. No adulterer has any claim to preach God’s Covenant (see Psalm 50:16-22), nor do the ones who “consent” with him. They have no part in God’s Kingdom, which is for the righteous. The law of God’s house is, has always been, and always will be HOLINESS (see Ezekiel 43:7-12; Hebrews 12:14). Without holiness, one will fall from grace with God.

    And this Jessa is NOT his wife; she is a strange woman, whose end is aptly described in several places in Proverbs. Todd Bentley has committed treason against his wife and children, and those who call Jessa his wife are just as guilty as Todd! They all will reap the same judgment: the lake of fire, where all liars go.

  5. Danny L says:

    I personally spoke with Todd and he specifically stated he did NOT commit adultery and that his sin was the “sin of divorce”.

    When i contacted FFM Canada they stated he did commit adultery.

    Someone lied to me… and it wasn’t his FFM Canada.

  6. Bene D says:

    Good for you for doing your own leg work Danny.

    There is no more FFM Canada, and hasn’t been for some time.
    It is now Transform International.

    I don’t know what you define as adultery.

  7. Todd was sleeping with his new wife while he was still married to his first wife. And, Jesus tells us, “But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already commited adultery with her in his heart” (Matt. 7: 28). There is sin when a person gets a divorce when they commit adultery instead of repenting and seeking reconciliation with his wife. Divorce was made necessary because of the hardness of men’s hearts which is adultery (Matt. 19: 8). It is legal according to the Scriptures to have a divorce when adultery has occurred (Matt. 19: 9) Bentley is trying to twist the Scriptures in order to deny his adultery. If he knew the Scriptures and was serving Jesus, he would have repented and returned to his family. There is no repentance evident here as seen in him trying to justify his sin.

  8. As bad, sick, perverse, deceived, lying and thieving scoundrel Todd Bentley is, his handlers and mentors John Arnott, Rick Joyner, Bill Johnson. Patricia King and Che Ahe are even worse!

    Check out on the web “Liars and perjurers in revival” and tell me that I am wrong?

  9. walter says:

    Sickness and poverty, which are not God’s will, came to Job because of the devil’s envy and jealous. As a result Job lost everything including his children, wealth and health. And his wife told him, “Do you still hold fast to your integrity? Curse God and die!” But he said to her, “You speak as one of the foolish women speaks. Shall we indeed accept good from God, and shall we not accept adversity?” In all this Job did not sin with his lips.

    Job wife was a foolish woman but he didn’t divorce her and get another younger woman like some so called Christians do, including Todd Bentley?

    Todd Bentley, a key figure in the demonic 2008 revival in Lakeland, Florida, said he was convinced his first marriage could not be saved. So he divorced his wife, Shonnah, who had been fighting cancer and married his mistress a younger woman.

    Job had seven more children with his only wife and he didn’t die prematurely living a life of defeat and poverty? He got back all that the devil had stolen from him and lived an additional one hundred and forty years, and saw his children and grandchildren for four generations. He died, old and full of days as well as rich and prosperous?

    And what God has done for Job, He can and will do for us because though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds (2 Corinthians 10:3-4).

  10. Therese says:

    Well, I hadn’t thought Job’s story had anything to do with marriage before – but there it stands as a testimony to the faithfulness and justness of God and a great encouragement for any married folk going through a difficult time in their marriage… Thanks for pointing that out Walter.

  11. Susan says:

    1 corinthians 5:6

    Just as a little leaven in bread quickly spreads completely through the dough, one “little” sin affects our whole being. One commandment broken, means we are guilty of breaking the whole law. In other words, one sin begets another sin, unless the chain is broken through repentance.

    I agree with you Jesus. There was no greater than John the
    Baptist, the forerunner of the messiah.

    If I may use your words Lord Jesus, “Father forgive them for they know not what they do.”

    You truely die Lord from a broken heart!

  12. walter says:

    1TM 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; 3:3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; 3:4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence

    TI 1:12 One of them, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.”

    Susan, it’s not just sin that we are talking about. We are talking about that the freak Todd Bentley is an unrepentant liar, thief, adulterer, divorce, deceiver, drunkard, lazy glutton, parasite, a wolf in sheep’s clothing and a Sorcerer!

    Todd admitted he lied at lakeland and as a result he stole $ 1 million dollar which he has not returned nor made accountability for!

    Look at Todd Bentley new Fresh Fire USA board made up of Todd, Rick Joyner and Trevor Bakker who lives in England! It’s a joke to rubber stamp whatever Todd wants. There is no integrity there whatsoever! It’s just Todd doing whatever he wants and telling lies that God told him to do it!

    And what has Todd done about his previous wife and children! And how come he has never gone back to Canada to visit them?

    Yes Todd is a deceiver who never tells us the truth but only his version of lies and fools believe him? It’s all hogwash!

  13. Susan says:

    2 Chronicles 16:9
    “For the Eyes of the Lord run to and fro throughout the whole earth to show Himself strong on behalf of those whose heart is loyal to Him.”
    Proverbs 15:3
    “The Eyes of the Lord are in every place, keeping watch on the evil and the good.”

    To some who read these verses they may just seem, well, hard to comprehend. But, they are from a Mighty God, who see’s and knows all. The Eternal God, who’s love know’s no ending. In our minds He is complex.

    Oh, Lord Jesus, create in those who love you, a temple for your throne. Eternal Love and Life, You who raised Jesus Christ from the dead. You are powerful, with mighty commands.

    Glory to your name Lord God! Beyond your stars, I see your glory. Dear Jesus, you will never leave the ones you died for. All around your glorious throne, the angles are singing.

    I want to see your Holy Face one day! God help us!

    Bring the Shekinah Glory Jesus. Let us know You are ours and we are yours.

    I love you Jesus.

    With love,

    Susan

  14. walter says:

    Susan – You sound like a religious fanatic who is not based in the word of God and need to note that a half truth is a lie?

    For example you quoted out of context 2 Chronicles 16:9 and did quote the whole verse? It states

    16:9 “For the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to show Himself strong on behalf of those whose heart is loyal to Him. In this you have done foolishly; therefore from now on you shall have wars.

    Well Todd Bentley doesn’t have a loyal heart to God or he would not be an unrepentant liar, thief, adulterer, divorce, deceiver, drunkard, lazy glutton, parasite, a wolf in sheep’s clothing and a Sorcerer!

    And the textural context of 2 Chronicles 16:9 is that that King Asa trusted God once for help and then he didn’t do it anymore! He used silver and gold from the treasuries of the house of the LORD and of the king’s house, and to buy peace with Ben-Hadad king of Syria. As a result God told him he had done foolishly and would have wars! There are severe consequences in life for doing foolish things including not trusting God with all your heart (Proverbs 3:5, 30:5)

    And James also tells us :
    1:5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him.
    1:6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind.
    1:7 For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord;
    1:8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.

    4:8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.

    God doesn’t like double-minded people who don’t trust in Him at all times! In other words You cannot serve God and Mammon and think God will not notice your betrayal.

    And then Asa became diseased in his feet, and his malady was severe; yet in his disease he did not seek the LORD, but the physicians. So he died unhealed prematurely!

    Now the other fact of the matter is you cannot use any experience, dream or vision to establish a biblical doctrine including your ridiculous statement “You truely die Lord from a broken heart!”

    For the record, God doesn’t die from anything and the New Testament doesn’t teach that God has a broken heart about anything? So you better get your theology straight before you make all your weird comments and prayers that are not based on truth or the word of God!

  15. Therese says:

    “I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.” Matt. 11:11

    “It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has his father’s wife. And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this? Even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. And I have already passed judgment on the one who did this, just as if I were present. When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.

    Your boasting is not good. Don’t you know that a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough? Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast – as you really are. For Christ our Passover lamb has been sacrificed. Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth.

    I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people – not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

    What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. ‘Expel the wicked man from among you.’ ” 1 Cor. 5:1-13

    I think in this context the yeast is in danger of contaminating the whole church body and therefore must be gotten rid of, expelled and put out of fellowship – by failing to do so in Todd Bentley’s case, some are not obeying the word of God.

  16. walter says:

    Todd Bentley is only a tip of the iceberg of what is wrong in the whole church body today including his ministerial friends.

    God is not a failure and Lakeland demonic revival was a big failure and an exposure of all the false ones!

    Any fool or deceiver that was at Todd Bentley’s coronation in Lakeland participated in the deception played on Christendom and should be judged and asked to get out of the Christian ministry for being liars, deceivers and false prophets! Even the scoundrel Benny Hinn after the fact spoke against the Florida revival. And the participation and support by the Strader clan was a warning sign that the revival was not of God! Read my book “Not Innocent” by Walter Kambulow to see why!

  17. Susan says:

    I am what I am Walter. I try not to be anything else. I’m sorry if I affended you or anyone else. That was never my point.

    I do believe Jesus died of a broken heart. He carried the sins of the world on Him. God turned away from Him because of the sin.

    I had my father turn away from me. I was alone and had no one but a couple of christians help me out. At seventeen I almost died, came real close. If I’m a fanatic for Jesus I can live with that, because He gave me another chance, and I did not decerve it.

    I want take up this Blog with my issues, they are in my past. But I do love Jesus, and maybe like a little child, I hope.

    With love,

    Susan

  18. walter says:

    AS I said Susan your experiences, dreams, visions or thoughts, negative or positive, do not establish Christian theology! So you must choose your words carefully if you want to go public with them!

    Yes Jesus did die for the sins of the world and to fulfill the plan and purposes of God, but that was not the end but a new beginning for God raised him from the dead, restored all things to him and gave him a name that is above every name and poured out His Spirit on all flesh so that man can be born again, filled with the Spirit, and be victorious and prosperous in all things!

    As a result of what Jesus did on the Cross on Calvary, by faith everything is ours now. Jesus Christ has substituted all things on the cross for us and exchanged it there for us. Our death, defeat and poverty and curses have been nailed to the Cross. On the Cross Jesus Christ not only won real victory and redemption over sin and death and the world, but also over the wicked arch enemy Satan and all his angels who had made the Cross necessary by what he did to Adam and Eve.

    The enemy had deceived and entrapped Adam and Eve to sin against God and live a life that was cursed and full of toil and trouble. But on the Cross Jesus Christ did the great exchange. He exchanged His sinlessness for our sins, His righteousness for our unrighteousness, His strength for our weakness, His boundless supply for our needs, His stripes for our healing, His riches for our poverty, His victories for our defeats, His glory for our shame, His triumphs for our disappointments, His Honor for our nothingness, His prosperity for our lacks, His joy for our sadness, and His fullness for our emptiness. But all of this is also something that must be revealed to us by the Holy Spirit before we can understand and partake of it fully. Yet it is all our birthright and the blessing of the fullness of the gospel of Christ.

    The message of the cross and the Gospel is not only that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures. He was buried and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures. He is now is seated at the right hand of the Father with all power given unto Him in heaven and earth waiting for His enemies to be made His footstool. But the message of the cross and the Gospel is also that as a result of the victories Jesus won on the cross, He has now given and shared all that He has with us (John 16:14) and He is also with and for us continually (Matthew 28:18-20).

    God in Christ Jesus has literally become our inheritance and great reward; as well as everything else which we need, including our healer and deliverer. As result of the Cross, God said about Jesus and of us who have become strong and overcomers:

    Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great, And He shall divide the spoil with the strong, Because He poured out His soul unto death, And He was numbered with the transgressors, And He bore the sin of many, And made intercession for the transgressors. Isaiah 53:12

  19. Susan says:

    If you are saved and I am saved, then we have the same Holy Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead. So, why do you find fault with me? I could find fault with a lot in this life too. But, it will not help me in the next life.

    If Jesus takes me as I am, he will continue to help me today.

    Take care Walter. Remember, we are all only human, and Jesus did not spare one drop of blood for any of us.

    With love,

    Susan

  20. walter says:

    2 Corinthians 5:21 For He made Him (Jesus ) who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

    Susan – Jesus Christ is not defeated today or was He ever defeated. He is Victorious, the Mighty God, the King of kings and Lord or lords and so are we in Christ!

    When we were born again, we weren’t half-reborn, we weren’t made half-righteous or a quarter righteous. We were made the righteousness of God in Christ! We were made a “joint-heir with Him.”

    According to Strong’s Concordance that word joint-heir refers to a personal equality based on an equality of possession.

    Jesus went to the Cross to give us what He already possessed – everything! He rose again so we could be recreated in His image. We are the victory of Almighty God! We are more than a conqueror in Christ Jesus. We are everything to the Father that Jesus is. John 17:23 actually says that God loves us as much as He loves Jesus. And now we can say with the Psalmist:

    62:5 My soul, wait silently for God alone, For my expectation is from Him.
    62:6 He only is my rock and my salvation;He is my defense; I shall not be moved.
    62:7 In God is my salvation and my glory; The rock of my strength, And my refuge, is in God.
    62:8 Trust in Him at all times, you people; Pour out your heart before Him; God is a refuge for us. Selah

    103:1 Bless the LORD, O my soul; And all that is within me, bless His holy name!
    103:2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, And forget not all His benefits:
    103:3 Who forgives all your iniquities, Who heals all your diseases,
    103:4 Who redeems your life from destruction, Who crowns you with lovingkindness and tender mercies,
    103:5 Who satisfies your mouth with good things, So that your youth is renewed like the eagle’s.
    103:6 The LORD executes righteousness And justice for all who are oppressed.

  21. Therese says:

    How wonderful that the Father was there to provide for you in your need, Susan! It’s so true that we need to anchor ourselves in His word, allowing it to transform our minds by His Spirit – our thoughts, imaginations and emotions. I’ve learned that it’s very important to take the whole context of a passage of scripture rather than isolating single verses which by itself often doesn’t express the truth or the whole counsel of God on a matter. There is a lot of deception out there, and I’ve also learned the hard way how necessary it is to know the word of God for ourselves and not to just take another person’s word on things, no matter how well-meaning or how well-respected by others he or she may be.

    God bless you as you go on in Christ and minister His love and healing to your patients – as a former nurse myself, the Lord occasionally gave me the privilege to act as His hands and voice during the latter part of my working life, and since He is no respecter of persons, some precious moments like that will no doubt come up for you too!

    But there is never any hurry in Christ – our God is never in a rush and He is very much in control, knowing the circumstances that every second will bring a long time beforehand, and He has already preplanned for each moment, so be anxious for nothing – it takes time for a person to be prepared and transformed, this is a lifetime pilgrimmage, so I hope you will be patient with yourself and spend lots of time reading the Word and sitting at His feet like Mary did, for this is what pleases Him, and is more fruitful in the long run than Mary’s busy, ‘spiritually over-achieving’ sister Martha. He cares more about you yourself, and what He can do for you, than in what you can do for Him.

  22. Grace says:

    “Well Todd Bentley doesn’t have a loyal heart to God or he would not be an unrepentant liar, thief, adulterer, divorce, deceiver, drunkard, lazy glutton, parasite, a wolf in sheep’s clothing and a Sorcerer!”

    This is why christians have a terrible rep with the rest of the world, and why people avoid them and would rather not be around them even for a few minutes. Not only because of Todd Bentley, but because of the responses he is getting from people of his own kind. Shame on all of you who think you can judge anyone!!!!!! SHAME!
    (edited as per site policy – BD)
    You should be completely and utterly ashamed of yourselves. There are two verses that you sickening people always always ALWAYS seem to forget, they just slip through your slimy minds, –
    James 2:10
    10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
    NIV

    Romans 3:23-24
    23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
    NIV

    These are examples of the first verse I was speaking of. Now, according to all of you, you say that you read the Bible as God’s Holy word, completely true and to be taken seriously- correct? SO WHY DO YOU OMIT THIS VERSE???? Ever told a white lie? Ever been jealous, envious, a glutton, lazy, stolen something- whether it be a piece of candy from somewhere, looked at a lady and had an impure thought, looked at a man and done the same, ever said malicious things out of anger? That’s what the BIBLE says. It says alllllllllll have sinned,
    (edited as per site policy – BD)

    That is not GOD’s truth, nor will it ever ever ever be God’s truth, and you have even a hint of that mentality than you are guilty of pride and again, are the worst sinner, Jesus came to save all—– not one or two, not the ones who do things more right, he is a doctor for the sick and not the healthy, why would a healthy person need a doctor, and you my friend will not be completely healthy and righteous and good until you are standing next to him in heaven.
    WHEW!
    The second thing I wanted to talk about is this-

    You all should know by now, about what I just said. You should be filled with humility and be so grateful to even know something or someone like God, who is infinite, and who took the time to get to know you and create you. That quote up there makes me completely and utterly sick. It makes me want to vomit that someone with that mentality is actually proclaiming the name of Christ, and I am not even a christian. The thing that makes me the most sick is this line—
    “God doesn’t like double-minded people who don’t trust in Him at all times! In other words You cannot serve God and Mammon and think God will not notice your betrayal. ”

    IS

    LOVE

    oh yes and also

    NOTHING

    (do you understand that word?)

    NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING

    CAN SEPARATE YOU

    FROM THE LOVE OF CHRIST.

    (Hi Grace. You have received a play nice warning and a 2 week ban. If you don’t understand why I edited your comment please read the site policy about self-respect and other respect.
    Verbal abuse of others is not acceptable.
    You are free to be upset, own your feelings, be advised name calling is over the line. You have my email – BD)

  23. Sean says:

    I agree with the previous poster in that the Bible has to be taken seriously and we have to be humble in realizing that ALL have sinned.

    I am thankful for Bentley’s ministry in a weird way. He pushed things so far a lot of things were clarified for me.

    However, a prerequisite for ministry is a humble repentence of sin. Bentley’s sins have become public, but he has shown no evidence of real repentence for what he has done.

    His teachings have been proven false. Many of the claimed healings have proven to be false, and none of his healings have medical evidence to demonstrate anything miraculous.

    The Bentley episode has reinforced the need to cling to the absolute truth of the Bible and not put up with any deviation. To follow this line is to be accused of putting “God in a box”, but God really put Himself in that box. When He inspired the writers of the Bible to write those words He was saying “This is who I am.” It’s absolutely essential that we hold to the absolute truth of His Word, the Bible and not tolerate any contradiction, especially from someone claiming to represent Him.

    The reason that I still follow this issue is that I continue to be amazed at the arguments attempting to justify this false ministry, even now after everything that’s happened in the past year.

    Go ahead and accuse me of being Judgemental. I am not angry at Bentley in any way. However, we have to evaluate this issue in light of God’s Holy Word, and in this light this ministry has to be identified for what it is, a false ministry.

  24. hopeome says:

    Does a ‘minister ever get sacked for wrong representation of his subject !

    THEY SHOULD

  25. Pingback: Hopefully the pastors Todd Bentley met were dressed for TV | Bene Diction Blogs On

  26. Setit says:

    This is disgusting. You are just stoning this man, who served the bride as best he could for a time. which of you are sinless? who among you have not fallen down. If god does not condemn him then how dare you? Mind your business, and go about your individuals lives, before god becomes infuriated against all of you. forgive, love, tolerate -that is what we are called to do. Do any of you pay his rent or share his personal destiny? You all should investigate whether you have religious spirits – because you are as hung up as the Pharisees. It’s obvious that he served faithfully for some years, worked hard and then came into some period of testing and trial. Jesus himself said to pray lest you be put to the test.

  27. Bene D says:

    I can see you are quite upset Setit, and I take it you believe Bentley is called by God to be a leader. I take away that to you criticism of leaders is unGodly, and as you say disgusting.

    Perhaps you’d be willing to clarify your statements such as:
    “It’s obvious that he served faithfully for some years”
    “worked hard” (How do you know?)
    “then came into some period of testing and trial”
    “Do any of you pay his rent …” What rent, Sedit?

    Do you perceive criticism and analysis as judgement? Can you explain?
    Are you upset with the analysis in the post, finances, quotes etc?

    I take it you think Bentley is being criticized for being in a period of testing…it would be great if you would elaborate your reasoning here.

    Correct me if I’m wrong, I think when you wrote “Jesus himself said to pray lest you be put to the test” you were paraphrasing Mark 14:38 “Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak.” If I misunderstood you, please correct me. I’m curious as to how you contextualize Mark 14 to drunkedness, adultery, greed, and extra-biblical teaching.

  28. ADAMISMAD says:

    You guys make me sick how dare ANY OF YOU JUDGE!!!! Wake up people god can still use this man if his heart is right and its between him and Jesus and not between you and the retarded media that thinks they should have a say!!! You all need Jesus and i do too, i am a filthy sinner and so is every single one of you guys. thanks God Jesus does not look at our sin because it was destroyed at the cross!!! he wants us to move on and since were human its sometimes hard. hope that opend at least one judgemental eye. love you all, hope you grow thereby
    blessings

    Sinner Adam Ekres – Lover of Jesus Christ!

  29. Bene Diction says:

    Adamismad: Would you be willing to break down the types of judging listed in the bible?

  30. AtheistAtBirth says:

    1 Corinthians 6:3

    King James Bible
    Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

    American Standard Version
    Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more, things that pertain to this life?

    Darby Bible Translation
    Do ye not know that we shall judge angels? and not then matters of this life?

    ADAMISMAD

    You are called upon to arbitrate angels at the end of the age, and yet are so pussy whipped and deluded by your teaching you cannot make a judgment call on one of the phoniest bloodsucking and biblically erroneous evangelists to have ever walked the earth?

    While you slumber in ignorance, superstition, dogma and canonical stupidity – you call upon others to “wake up”

  31. Bene D says:

    Adamismad and AthiestatBirth:

    I was thinking more about what the bible says about how people are to judge people. Context is a good thing.:^)

    Judgement is used in the bible 162 times.

    Gods judgement aside, I mean people to people judgement.

    Romans 2:1 Be careful. Romans doesn’t say not to judge, but to be careful, like Adamismad mention in his comment. Be aware you too are guilty. This speaks to justice and righteousness or right-living.
    Adam is admitting extreme anger in his name. That doesn’t put him in a good place to exercise sound judgement and uprightness of heart, let alone mercy toward himself or others.

    John 7:24 We are built to look at the superficial. Look to what God sees.

    Romans 14:13 Remove your brothers stumbling block. Since the bible is chock full of ways to help others, this is self-evident.

    1 Corinthians 11:31 Judge yourself. Again, this doesn’t say don’t judge, it says go first.

    James 2:12-13 Speak and act in mercy because judgement without mercy comes back to bite you.

    Only God’s judgments are true and just, but we are called to judge.

    John 5:30 Our judgments can become true when we seek to please God over ourself.

    Zechariah 8:16 Speak truthfully so you may learn to be sound in your judgement.

    Psalm 94:15 Righteousness and judgement are companions if we are upright in heart.

    To judge (condemn) unjustly is not the same as judge (discern). God desires and encourages discernment, just as He asks his church to exercise right discipline toward leadership and each other. If the body doesn’t do it, the government, rulers and public will.

    1 Cor. 5 Believers are called to judge the church.
    Mat 7:15-16,22-23 Watch out! Discern the wolves. Deal with them. As A.W. Tozer said, be the white cells in the bloodstream.

    There is a fear and ignorance about judging so we ignore proper judgement.

    Fear prevents proper judgement.
    We can’t judge if we don’t understand God’s will.
    Col 2:18-19 We can’t judge is we are superstitious
    Jude 17 No reliance on the Holy Spirit – poor judgement insues
    2: Tim: 3: 16 Scared and ignorant about when you need to arbitrate, discern or decide? Read scripture.

    And may I toss in some psychology. H.A.L.T. I can’t exercise common sense toward myself or others when I am H: hungry, A: angry, L: lonely or T: tired.

    And for mad Adam, may I end with 1 John 4:1

    And we all know this isn’t even a warm up.

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