Murray Lincoln watched some TV yesterday. He also read the an article in the Toronto Star last week a reporter friend drew his attention to.
Murray watched Ron Mainse do his re-entry interview to 100 Huntley Street hosting. He was shocked.
He read about Al Gosling, an 82 year old evicted from his bachelor apartment because he didn’t fill in the right paperwork. Al slept under the stairs for a week, got sick, and died in hospital. Lincoln Murray was shocked.
The people that Ron signed up – signed other people up as well. From what has been written so far – they would receive between 1% to 5% as well… and Ron potentially would get a small piece of that sign up… (here I am guessing based on other presentations that I have sat through by other ‘Gordon’s’ in my life).
Now using the Ponzi Scheme and using the $75,000 – Ron would get $750 of that next $75,000 for his friend’s sign up-ees… and his friend would get the initial $3750 – the same as Ron got when he signed up his friend. So – on that particular $75,000 – Gordon paid out $4500 and kept $70,500 – which they thought he was investing to make the huge amounts of MORE Money.
Gordon and Reynold are considered under the law and in terms of Ponzi Schemes – “FINDERSâ€. They are like the lure at the end of my fishing line… wiggled just right… jerking just at the right time… someone will bite. And every sucker that is hungry will BITE!
All total in this particular scheme there appears to be about 100 people in Canada and the USA. Gordon has a place in Hamilton and Las Vegas.
…. I  am shocked because some high profile Christians got away with murder… Gordon Driver being one… and the finders being the others.
Ron Mainse stated yesterday that he has paid back or is paying back all the “Finders Fees†that he received – into a ‘trust fund’ held buy the Ontario Securities Commission. So with some simple thinking here – Ron Mainse now has a much bigger mortgage, maybe or maybe not – no new car or two… and no job.
Now back to my Shock Number Two…
Al Gosling died last weekend. Very sick and alone at 82 years old. My simple wondering today asks one question. I wonder if Al Gosling ever watched 100 Huntley Street Christian TV?
I can’t beleive about Al Gosling either, I am shocked as well.
From Murray Lincoln’s blog: “I think 100 Huntley Street Christian TV – and its leadership forgot who they should be looking at. Al Gosling was a far safer person to look at – than Gordon Driver.”
I truly wish it didn’t have to be said, but I feel it is significant that Ron Mainse received news of the ponzi scheme while on a cruise vacation with his wife – it’s as though the Lord was saying “Enough!” to this insane $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ treadmill they were on, that the whole church is on! Yes, He forgives, yes, he redeems, yes, His is gracious and longsuffering, and yes, He disciplines those he loves, those He calls sons…but I sincerely pray that we all will learn through this the meaning of “Do not store up for yourselves treasure on earth, but store up treasure in heaven for where your treasure is there your heart will be also.” But the Huntley St. expose is a wake-up call to the whole entire church which is serving mammon, it’s not just a Huntley St. problem. There are churches who organize group cruises for their members and call it worship, for goodness sake!!!
Poor Al Gosling – government regulations and systems have no brains and no heart – there needs to be some room in the rules for human beings to exercise judgment, though that’s always hit and miss too, but better than nothing. There are social workers to advocate for people like him and assist in filling out forms and navigating the system which is too onerous a task for most average folk, never mind an 82 year old at the end of his energies…why did no one think to put him in touch with one? And even if he couldn’t cope with that, where’s the harm in cutting an old man some slack, for heaven’s sake?? Yes, I agree, Al would have been a far safer investment with far better returns.
The gap between the rich people in ministry, who don’t think they are rich, and those who are struggling to keep them in the manner to which they are accustomed is staggering….I can think back to the times I have stretched to donate to churches and ministries when my own circumstances were worse or as bad as the ’cause’ being advertised by someone living in the lap of luxury, and it makes me wonder, sickeningly, how many times I’ve been ‘had’, not knowingly or consciously by anybody, but because of deception.
Yes, God help us all, is my fervent prayer too, but I believe from scripture that He is only going to help those who run not walk away from this Sodom/Babylon church and don’t look back! “COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE!”
….and Jim Cantelon who probably thinks this is throwing stones and would wish it back upon me, that’s no problem, I am used to suffering….you should look to your own son who is actually proud of his rebellion and foray into worldliness and now mistakenly thinks he is going to be God’s gift to the pulpit…instead of encouraging his self-exhaltation you should rebuke and teach your son that God is not impressed by brains or talent – the only thing that impresses Him is a broken and humble heart!!
The earlier Joe Fiorito article in The Star mentions that
Al had delegated power of attorney to a person named
Harry Kopyto
Kopyto failed to his duty of care to his charge and one
thing led to another and Al was out of his unit.
Toronto Community Housing is the public housing
entity in Toronto and may not have a social worker
to look into the needs and situations of persons
such as Al.
Al’s mental weakness and overall age should have
qualified him for something better than power of
attorney with a disbarred lawyer. He at least
deserved the care of the Public Guardian and Trustee.
Perhaps he kept very much to himself and others
around him did not know the depth of his difficulties.
Harry Kopyto should have known and done something.
Public Housing and Public Health should have social workers
and other specialist workers such as advocates for the
aged but this is probably a luxury that went by the
the way during the budget cutbacks of the mid-1990s.
Koptyo failed to exercise duty of care and his fiduciary
responsibilty to his charge. With him should rest
the blame.
——–
The situation with 100 Huntley and the situation with
Al Gosling and independent things and one is not tied
in to the other.
Murray Lincoln should have stuck to one subject in
his posting and not done what he did–conflate two
subjects into the same article. He has inadvertently
misled readers who are not attentive to the second
story. The broader subject of injustice pervades
the entire article but the conflation of the Gosling
situation with the Huntley situation does not benefit
the reader nor does it clarify any situation.
I hope Lincoln fixes things up quickly because if he
is the pastoral counsellor as he says he is then he
needs to calm the troubled waters he has stirred up.
Hmm Torontonian, Murray was talking about two things that shocked him. I give readers more credit than conflating the two, and I’m grateful people are not so densentitized they can’t be shocked. He isn’t afraid to say what he feels, his post isn’t sterile, it’s personal.
I’ve tended to cover 100 Huntley factually, Murray spoke from his heart. I liked his math.
There are too many Al Goslings, and I agree Kopyto failed. The Housing Authority failed.
One event (Gosling) has nothing to do with the other (Ron Mainse) except in the heart.
Because a reporter had heart, there will be a review of Mr. Gosling falling through the cracks.
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/709817–in-al-gosling-s-death-hope-for-others
Bennie D… man, you are really slipshod here. You let this sort of guilt-laden nonsense fly?
So many things are wrong with whatever person wrote that article tying those two things together.
Why are we so quick to blame people who have money, as if they should apologize to the rest of you for not having it? Too, how do we know what they do with that money? They could very well be using their situations to better the lives of others, moreso than they could if they simply chose to be lunchbucket folks and simply exchanged hours for dollars. Nothing wrong with being a lunchbucket kind of person. But don’t blame people for having the know-how to financially succeed. It is the LOVE OF money… and not money itself … that is the root of all evil.
And what about Al Gosling? As sad as this is, do we know the reasons that he was in the situation that he was in? I have spoken with people who work with those on the streets. Very often, they are there of their own accord, usually because of mental illness.
Whatever the case, it is tremendously sad that anyone would die in this situation.
But to point a finger of accusation or tie these two things together… are you insane?
Of course they are two separate events and it’s obvious Huntley St. obviously is not in any way responsbile for what happened to Al Gosling. But I thought Murray’s point about Al Gosling being potentially one of the viewership of Huntley St. was a good one….the irony of the dire circumstances of some of their viewer’s lives while those who’s calling it supposedly is to “minister” to them are entangled in a mess about their investments. Wasn’t Murray saying really that Huntley St. maybe has lost sight of who they should be “investing” with? …it makes sense to me, as you said on a heart level, (which I guess is where I live most of the time, for better or worse).
I have a brother with a disability who was living in subsidized housing in the Toronto area for a few years, and at one point when he could not make his rent, someone in the housing office downstairs where he was living connected him with a social worker who was a great help to him with his situation. A Power of Attorney is the designated decision-maker should a person become unable to make their own decisions, they are not responsible for the person’s care if the person is still legally lucid and able to make their own decisions. I dont’ know the exact facts, but it’s possible and even likely this person didn’t even know about Al’s situation until the hospital called him, once Al became incapacitated. I still think that anyone with common sense and a telephone could and should have called someone to help rather than see an 82 year old frail man turfed out into the street. At any rate, I sure hope this is looked into to see where exactly he fell through the cracks so it doesn’t happen again…there are many more vulnerable aging people out there.
“It is the LOVE OF money… and not money itself … that is the root of all evil.”
Yes, that’s exactly right….and how little we know our own hearts most of the time! Isn’t it the love of money in the church that the Lord is exposing through this situation? “You cannot serve both God and mammon…”
If Jesus is our example, let’s look at what kind of investment portfolio he had, the square footage and granite countertops of the mansion he lived in, where He took his holidays, how many suits he had hanging in his closet, what restaurants he ate at, what kind of chariot he drove, etc, etc. Not that most of us have already attained to His stature, but what is very disturbing to me is that most of the church doesn’t even recognize that Jesus is what we are aiming for any more.
We are reading Murray Lincoln’s blog post differently, aren’t we?
“But don’t blame people for having the know-how to financially succeed. It is the LOVE OF money… and not money itself … that is the root of all evil.”
Agreed. It is.
Therese, what I wrote re: the off side post interview comment by Cantelon is my paraphrase, don’t know why it caught my attention, just did.
The Crossroad video platform isn’t set up for fast forward and rewind, you can see what Cantelon said exactly about 45 minutes in. If you like to pull the exact quote for us, feel free.
I don’t think you can mistake his contempt for the Mainses… and why? Because they are Mammon-minded?
Isn’t that the point he is trying to make?
And how better for him to make it by juxtaposing the situation against an unfortunate person who died?
Murray Lincoln is making a point that he is in no position to make. He is making a judgment call on these people’s lives, saying that because they are concentrating on money that something else is going on instead.
He writes, “Look at the money flowing”… and then writes sarcastically about the Mainse’s desire to pay off their mortgage and whatnot. … as if this is somehow a bad thing.
Why is making money bad? What if Gordon Driver had a legitimate manner of doing business… isn’t it a godly thing to do to get involved in something like that so perhaps, not only can you take care of your earthly needs, but you could bless others out of the abundance?
And why aren’t we giving the Mainse’s the benefit of the doubt here? It doesn’t sound like these guys totally understood what they were involved with. Why not take them at face value and forgive them?
Instead, some of the vipers on this board have decided that the reasons everybody was involved was simply to make money. HOW THE HECK DO YOU KNOW THIS?
And on top of it… HOW THE HECK DOES MURRAY LINCOLN KNOW THAT IT IS BECAUSE THEY ARE MONEY-MINDED that people like Al Gosling aren’t getting 100 Huntley’s full attention?
You know what the worst thing is about being in the ministry? Having to put up with people deciding that they know… they know the inside skinny… they know what is going on. And the reality is, they couldn’t possibly know… but that doesn’t stop them from chiming in with their opinions. And usually, those people aren’t the smartest bulbs in the room, if you get what I’m smoking.
I have spoken with Gordon Driver pretty consistently through this whole thing. He was my friend before this happened. And he is still my friend, even if he is guilty. I called him right afterwards because I was concerned for him. I was absolutely shocked that his name was being thrown around like this because I had listened to him speak consistently about ministry and building the kingdom through the talents that he had. I find it incredibly difficult to believe that what people are saying is true.
But even after speaking with him for so long I reserve the right to make any absolute judgments. We simply do not know.
What he has told me makes sense, and if it pans out… some of you are going to be ashamed of yourselves for rushing to judgment.
But even if he is guilty, shouldn’t we that are spiritual have compassion for someone that is so deluded that they would involve themselves in something like this? Shouldn’t we have compassion not only for the victims, but also for the perpetrators… because aren’t they the ultimate victims in the larger scheme of things?
But even after speaking with him for so long I reserve the right to not make any absolute judgments. We simply do not know.
David – You sound like a bleeding heart liberal! But did Jesus teach that we were to have compassion for perpetrators of crimes? No He clearly stated in the gospel of Matthew:
7:15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
7:16 “You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
7:17 “Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
7:18 “A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
7:19 “Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
7:20 “Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
7:22 “Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
7:23 “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
“I don’t think you can mistake his contempt for the Mainses… and why? Because they are Mammon-minded?”
Go ask.
“Why is making money bad? What if Gordon Driver had a legitimate manner of doing business… isn’t it a godly thing to do to get involved in something like that so perhaps, not only can you take care of your earthly needs, but you could bless others out of the abundance?”
If that is what you hear Murray Lincoln saying, go ask him.
“HOW THE HECK DOES MURRAY LINCOLN KNOW THAT IT IS BECAUSE THEY ARE MONEY-MINDED that people like Al Gosling aren’t getting 100 Huntley’s full attention?”
If that’s how you interpret Murray Lincoln’s intent of his post, go ask him.
David:
Agreed.
There are things we do not know, things we will never know.
That goes to regulatory communication, organizational communication, and individual communication.
Here are the links to Ron and Ann Mainse talking about forgiving their friend on 100 Huntley Street, October 14, 2009.
Two segments.
http://www.youtube.com/user/100huntley#p/u/3/2Z6Q_kfkL2M
http://www.youtube.com/user/100huntley#p/u/4/D50lde4szww
BeneD, I wrote out that part of the post-interview chat as best I could – it’s about 90% word for word I would say:
Jim Cantelon: …Well that was a tough interview, had a sleepless night or two. What you want in a situation like this is for the truth to come out. Scripture talks about living in the light…if we can’t be transparent then what’s the point? I for one for would never want to cover up mine or anyone else’s shortcomings…I just looked Ron in the eyes and asked him the tough questions. I appreciated that Ron gave straight answers. I also appreciated that when I asked about angry viewers (and I didn’t know what he would say to that, I really didn’t) Ron did not defend himself…. he has taken full responsibility, it was basically a mea culpa, and for this I respect him….
Moira Brown: I see refiner’s fire at work in the midst of this.
Jim Cantelon: Well, yeah, and anyone who wants to throw stones, the fact is when someone is down that’s when suddenly people get courageous about throwing stones. You gotta remember what Jesus said about the adulteress who was caught in adultery – let he who is without sin cast the first stone, and if there is any one of you out there who is without sin and wants to throw stones, go ahead and cast stones at televangelists, Crossroads, the Mainse family – you will ultimately be responsible to the Lord your Maker for your decisions, as we all must be.
Therese, nicely done and appreciated.
Thank you.
So I did hear,’ go ahead and cast stones.’
Whew.
Walter,
My Bible tells me to have compassion for all and to forgive one another. It doesn’t put restrictions on who those people are nor what crimes they may have committed.
Apparently you are using a different translation.
1COR 5:13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”
3 John 1:9 I wrote to the church, but Diotrephes, who loves to have the preeminence among them, does not receive us. 1:10 Therefore, if I come, I will call to mind his deeds which he does, prating against us with malicious words. And not content with that, he himself does not receive the brethren, and forbids those who wish to, putting them out of the church. 1:11 Beloved, do not imitate what is evil, but what is good. He who does good is of God, but he who does evil has not seen God.
Garnett! The main difference between you and me and our bible is that I don’t consider those who liars, thieves, adulterers, fornicators, sorcerers, embezzlers, etc to be Christians or brethren.
They might be your brethren but they are not mine. Thy are not King’s kids but the devil’s kids! See Ephesians 5:1-14
True Christians or Brethren don’t rob, rape, murder, kill or use the sheep like wolves in sheep’s clothing do including Todd Bentley!
My bible also tells me to treat wolves differently from brethren and to put away the evil person Jesus told us that if it acts like wolf, smells like a wolf and doesn’t things of a wolf, it’s a ravenous wolf which bears bad fruit:
MT 7:15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
7:16 “You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
7:17 “Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
7:18 “A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
7:19 “Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
7:20 “Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
I also don’t understand how you handle the conditional forgiveness as conveyed by the words of Jesus LK 17:3 “Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.
It seems that you believe in automatic forgiveness whether a person repents or not?
But you were not saved or forgiven until you first repented of your sins? There cannot be any salvation until there is repentance first. Peter said ACTS 2:38 Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
ACTS 3:19 “Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,
In the bible repentance comes first and then forgiveness otherwise real judgment falls on those who don’t repent of their sins and crimes as expressed by the words of Jesus:
RV 2:5 “Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place-unless you repent.
RV 2:16 ‘Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth.
RV 2:21 “And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent.
RV 2:22 “Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds.
RV 3:3 “Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you.
RV 3:19 “As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent.
RV 9:20 But the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, and idols of gold, silver, brass, stone, and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk.
RV 9:21 And they did not repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts.
RV 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and they blasphemed the name of God who has power over these plagues; and they did not repent and give Him glory.
RV 16:11 They blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and did not repent of their deeds.
I don’t understand why you think that it’s okay for so called Christians to “not repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts.”
It’s a command of God “Therefore be zealous and repent.”
So Garnett by your automatic forgiveness you are advocating that people don’t have to repent because you forgave them?
That is a very bad and dangerous theology for which you will also be judged by God for indirectly partaking of another man’s sins!
2 John 1:10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; 1:11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
So I anticipate and demand according to the words of Jesus that liars, thieves, deceivers, scoundrels perjurers etc like Todd Bentley, John Arnott and Stephen Long repent before they seek forgiveness or absolution of their sins as well as make restitution where appropriate!
MT 11:20 Then He began to rebuke the cities in which most of His mighty works had been done, because they did not repent: 11:21 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
Garnett,
Jesus ordered Apostle John to write a letter or email to so called Christians in seven different churches telling them all to repent or to “face the music?”
None of them repented, including the church of Ephesus, and they were not forgiven and became a nonexistent thing?
And nothing has changed today because we live in the same dispensation of “the latter days” and Jesus Christ is still saying the same thing to so called Christians repent or face the music!
Walter,
“Garnett! The main difference between you and me and our bible is that I don’t consider those who liars, thieves, adulterers, fornicators, sorcerers, embezzlers, etc to be Christians or brethren”
Your theology is way wrong! All Christians have sinned and yet because of the amazing grace of God we are forgiven by God. We are therefore still brethren even though we sin.
You seem to be missing the point that it is God that will provide the judgement and not us and not Walter.
We are called to forgive, to show grace and to show mercy.
James 1:22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.
1JN 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
Garnett
So you consider those who are unrepentant liars, thieves, adulterers, fornicators, sorcerers, embezzlers, etc to be Christians or brethren†and they are your brethren?
And you say my theology is wrong? I think the word deceived is applicable here?
So why did Jesus keep tell so called defeated Christians who were unrepented “sinners” in the book of Revelation RV 3:5 “He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
Why did He used the word overcome and stated
RV 3:12 “He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. And I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.
RV 3:21 “To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
Obviously your brethren are not overcomers but have been overcome and will not sit with Jesus on His throne?
Speaking of judgment if God will provide judgment why did apostle Paul say 1COR 5:13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.â€
How can you put someone away if you don’t judge, expose and rebuke him first? You cannot!
And if God will provide judgment and we are not to judge why did Paul judge and state
5:3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5:5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Paul, not God, judged and delivered the body of the sexual immoral person to Satan for destruction?
Anyway I have not seen any real repentance from any of your brethren who are practicing sinners even though the bible tells us that true repentance must bear fruits of repentance including restitution:
LK 19:8 Then Zacchaeus stood and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord, I give half of my goods to the poor; and if I have taken anything from anyone by false accusation, I restore fourfold.”19:9 And Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because he also is a son of Abraham; 19:10 “for the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.”
And how come on this web site there is only a very small handful of people responding to it?
Is your opinion the only opinion there is on this blog? Do you speak for everybody?
And what makes your opinion and views right if no repentance is required from anybody?
Walter,
You speak in absolute terms. You use words like “no reptentance is required from anybody” and “you speak for everybody”.
A persons Christian walk is not set forever. Even if they are in a state of sin without having repented that doesn’t mean they will always be like that. The sometimes gentle and sometimes not so gentle leading of God may move them to a state of repentance.
Our job is to show grace and mercy and love.
You seem like an angry person. I feel sorry for you.
Psalm 36:2 “An oracle is within my heart concerning the sinfulness of the wicked: There is no fear of God before his eyes. For in his own eyes he flatters himself too much to detect or hate his sin…”
And this sobering passage:
“But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.” (1 John 3:5-7)
How I read these verses is that we as believers need to have a repentant heart attitude that is watching for and taking God’s side in the battle against our own sin. It’s my understanding that what we are called to overcome is not the devil who is already defeated, or the world that Jesus has already overcome, but our own sinful flesh. And we should not allow ourselves to be led astray by teachers/preachers who do not fear God and who do not meet these standards of fearing God, detecting and hating their own sin, and who do not DO what is right in their own personal lives. Those who do not DO what is right WILL lead us astray – because they haven’t got a hold of Christ yet for themselves, they are not living in Him.
Garnett – You use the terms “we” and “our” as though you are speaking for all Christians! But you don’t speak for all Christians? You are speaking your opinion and only your opinion?
And feeling sorry for me is a judgment call from a person who preaches that we are not to judge but are to show grace and mercy and love. Are you not being a real hypocrite?
Now lets talk about the sin of adultery and sexual immorality which you feel we are not to rebuke in Christians? It’s to be noted that I have not talked in this blog about nonChristians per say but only about so called Christians or true Christians!
Speaking of the woman caught in adultery in John 8:3, in most societies you don’t go to jail for committing adultery or committing sexual immorality but you do go to jail for stealing, perjury, obstruction of justice, conducting ponzi schemes, and financial embezzlement.
So according to Garnett we are not to expose their sins and crimes but rather are to forgive and love them and let them continue doing their thing! And of course we don’t demand that they repent. Is that what you are saying?
And for the record you have no right to impose your views on me or expect that I should agree with them especially forgiving people who are behaving in a criminal manner!
And let talk about the sin of nepotism which is totally against the character and nature of God Who is not respecter of persons and shows partiality to no one!
James says 2:8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; 2:9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
There should be no nepotism in the house of God or any Christian ministry because the Word of God, not Walter Kambulow, says it’s sin!
And why should an incompetent blind person like Ron be a president of a Christian ministry just because his father founded the ministry?
Since when is the best man or woman or a job a family member?
Do you really think that most secular people now will have any respect for the Mainse clan and for Ron now that they know he is blaming all his ponzi crimes on ignorance and being naive?
Get real most people are not that stupid!
Walter,
Feeling sorry for someone is an act of compassion and caring. It isn’t judgmental. Indeed the human reaction of feeling sorry is often the emotion which motivates us to put love and grace into action.
You still don’t get it. It isn’t for us to judge. Judging isn’t the same as talking to someone about a sin they are committing. Judgement is for God and not us. We can however in love talk to a brother or sister who has lost their way. But remember they are still our brother.
As for your comment “or expect that I should agree with them especially forgiving people who are behaving in a criminal manner” – the Bible is very clear that we are in fact to forgive. I do not know what denomination of church you attend but this is universal across any denomination I am aware of.
Walter did you know that forgiving someone (whether or not that person has repented) is a healing act for the person who is doing the forgiving? It allows that person to heal and then move forward with their life in a whole way.
Garnet
LET’S GET PRACTICAL and let talk about the sin of nepotism which is totally against the character and nature of God Who is not respecter of persons and shows partiality to no one!
James says 2:8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,†you do well; 2:9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
There should be no nepotism in the house of God or any Christian ministry because the Word of God, not Walter Kambulow, says it’s sin!
And why should an incompetent blind person like Ron be a president of a Christian ministry just because his father founded the ministry?
Since when is the best man or woman or a job a family member?
Do you really think that most secular people now will have any respect for the Mainse clan and for Ron now that they know he is blaming all his ponzi crimes on ignorance and being naive?
Get real most people are not that stupid!
AND ANSWER THE QUESTION according to Garnett we are not to expose their sins and crimes but rather are to forgive and love them and let them continue doing their thing! And of course we don’t demand that they repent. Is that what you are saying?
Walter,
I said there is a difference between judging and confronting (in love) someone about a sin they are committing.
So in practical terms, if you know of a brother or sister that has committed some sin then you might be the right person to talk with them about that. But in needs to be done with compassion and with the goal of restoring them. It cannot be done by judging them.
In simple terms the expression “Love the sinner and hate the sin” is a easy way to describe it.
Regardless of whether or not they repent, they are still our brother/sister. And if you have been harmed by that sin then regardless of whether or not they have stopped or repented then you need to forgive them.
If in some way you have been harmed by what Ron Mainse has done then regardless of where you think his heart is you need to forgive him.
Walter,
One last comment about this.
The concept of forgiveness is so totally important to our Christian walks. I would encourage you to talk with a brother or sister or a pastor about this and have them walk you through this in a more personal way.
Regardless of whether or not they repent, they are still our brother/sister
Garnett – Hogwash! They are your brother/sister not mine!
Those who don’t repent especially of criminal acts or deeds prove they are not Christians but sons of hell sons of disobedience upon whom the judgment of God will come and we are commanded to expose them by the word of God
Ephesians 5:5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
5:6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
5:7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.
5:8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light
5:9 (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth),
5:10 finding out what is acceptable to the Lord.
5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.
5:12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret.
5:13 But all things that are exposed are made manifest by the light, for whatever makes manifest is light.
5:14 Therefore He says:
“Awake, you who sleep,
Arise from the dead,
And Christ will give you light.”
5:15 See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise,
5:16 redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
5:17 Therefore do not be unwise, but understand what the will of the Lord is.
1TM 5:20 Those who are sinning rebuke in the presence of all, that the rest also may fear.
2TM 4:2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
4:4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.
So Garnett stop preaching your fables to me because I don’t buy them and you are still not being practical and answering any of my questions posed to you about nepotism and closing our eyes to criminal acts!
Garnet – the principle of repentance and restitution especially for real crimes committed such as stealing, perjury, obstruction of justice, conducting ponzi schemes, and financial embezzlement that you should not only talk to your pastor about it, but also to the perpetrators of these crimes as well as to Jesus as to what you should do about it in accordance with Ephesians 5
Bene,
Publish your real name, if you want me to talk to you.
Wally,
Are you a Christian or is this just a semantic game for you?
“Therese – Bene made a public accusation about me without talking to me first and is that right? The bible teaches that he has to talk to me first before he talks to others. Shame on Bene!â€
Neither one of you spoke to me privately first. Romans does equate gossip with every kind of evil.
I need to fix my Bible. I don’t have that scripture that says gossiping on the internet is OK.
Leviticus 19:16 – “Do not go about spreading slander among your people. Do not do anything that endangers your neighbor’s life. I am the Lord.†(NIV)
Proverbs 11:13 – “A gossip betrays a confidence, but a trustworthy man keeps a secret.†(NIV)
Romans 1:29 – “They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips.†(NIV)
1 Timothy 5:13 – “Besides, they get into the habit of being idle and going about from house to house. And not only do they become idlers, but also gossips and busybodies, saying things they ought not to.†(NIV)
Matthew 7:1 – “Do not judge, or you too will be judged.†(NIV)
Proverbs 18:8 – “The words of gossip are like choice morsels; they go down to a man’s inmost parts.†(NIV)
Matthew 7:12 – “So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.†(NIV)
Ephesians 4:29 – “Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.†(NIV)
What’s really on your heart, Gordon? Have you anything to say to those who have lost their homes and their hopes for the future who might be reading this? Maybe a little word of sympathy or regret? There are ways to word things that shouldn’t get your lawyer too anxious….
GORDON DRIVER – Look at what you can expect under the American system of justice!
Florida man sentenced to 24 years for Ponzi scheme
(edited – BD)
Walter, please tell us what criminal charges have been filed against Gordon Driver.
It is against the law to cut and paste an entire Reuters piece.
Please don’t do that again.
LK 6:45 “A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.
JN 18:20 Jesus answered him, “I spoke openly to the world. I always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where the Jews always meet, and in secret I have said nothing.
Bene
I used the word “can expect” because Gordon Driver as a supposed Christian, a man of God, a man of Truth, cannot prove to us that he is “Innocent” or “Not Guilty” about conducting a ponzi scheme and he has not been honest or open about any thing?
Well the wheels of justice move slowly but they move surely it’s only a question of time before Gordon goes to jail like Dan Strader, Jim Bakker, and Dr. Henry J Lyons because God who rules over all isn’t stupid though some people are!
In other words it’s a faith statement or confession that Gordon Driver will be put in jail!
Bene I still think that as a Christian you should give everybody your real name because Jesus never did things in secret!
If Walter was my friend i would not need any enemies.
On another note.
Sure looks like this Driver guy has committed fraud and theft .
He appears to be delusional in his denial.
He seems to be using the old judge not routine in order to avoid
the obvious fact that he is a commen criminal.
He really should be a TV preacher.
Yeah, judge not isn’t going to hold up before a judge.
Stockwatch posted in May, there were a couple of comments and it went quiet.
The Ron Mainse interview drew a few more comments.
Viewers trust may be more eroded than I would have assumed.
http://tiny.cc/QzZMh
My goodness there is a lot of hitting one over the head with bible verses!
And Mr. Driver – the point is you have been charged with a crime. You don’t have to talk to anyone except your lawyer. So demanding BD’s real name is a deflection. Face the fact that you have committed a crime and now you must accept the consequences that the law demands.
I don’t use my real name online for good reason – there are a lot of creepy people out there. BD has reasons, so do many others.
Criminal act – criminal charges. The only stones being cast are from Christians going after each other. Name calling? It’s childish and unbecoming.
If Walter and Gordon wish to bible thump each other, that’s fine, they can take their behavior elsewhere and not chew up my bandwidth.
Sad.
Is it only me or does anyone else find it astonishing that 100 Huntley Street leadership is doing a Fall membership drive? You would think they would be focused on cleaning up the current mess before conducting any money solicitation. I deem their “business as usual” attitude to be both arrogant and foolish. Their actions may prove very costly to that ministry…
Yes, the fund-raising drive at such a time surprised me too…
The fall membership drive would be for the still faithful
to the endeavours of 100 Huntley Street.
For them, it would be a sort of
a regular seasonal event they look forward to.
It also helps to take people’s minds of the present
difficulties and re-focus them on mission work.
——
A sidelight to this would be that after disasters,
relief workers know to get the children back into
school as quickly as possible to restore structure
to some lives and hope that daily progress in the
growth of the children will translate into hope for
the others affected by the cataclysm. Children’s
enthusiasm is quite contagious. Christians especially
should understand the special meaning and symbolism
of children.
For myself I don’t doubt at all they have their reasons, one of them may just be stark necessity, another may have to do with appearances. I tuned in the day before yesterday to hear disapproving talk about ‘triumphalist attitudes’, and then a few fond words about clerical collars before the senior Mainse cut them off. Yesterday there was much talk about the size of the gift only being as big as the sacrifice, which was truly nauseating and broke my heart for those already struggling who will be manipulated by such devious arm-twisting.
I noticed in the news yesterday that the Vatican has found a way to welcome back disaffected Anglicans by setting up another “church” within the Mother Church, and it all makes me wonder how long before she summons certain evangelical protestants back into her embrace…
Therese, sobering stuff indeed…
Just as a little aside for comic relief, I read something today that made me howl with laughter:
No doubt most have heard of “Name it and Claim It”, and then “Blab it and Grab It” doctrines – well here’s one that’s new to me – How about, “What the Heck, Write the Check” theology?
Is it right for a person to get political during a fundraising
event? I notice David Mainse this morning going on about
euthanasia and how the whole subject is coming back
before the parliament.
In my books, that is incitement to political action and has
nothing to do about the endeavours of 100 Huntley Street.
Mixing in politics with religion during fundraising is volatile
and I’m sure he is now disaffecting viewers for it.
Mainse tends to verbal incontinence and in so doing
he’s soiling his reputation. His going on and on–
relentlessly at times–is a reason he’s been limited
to TV time.
I hope others notice and act accordingly.