The British Columbia Supreme Court has ruled that The Anglican Network of Canada does not have legal rights to the buildings and land they chose to leave. Â The ruling affects four schismatic BC congregations, there are 35 groups of Anglicans across Canada who chose to leave The Anglican Church of Canada over same sex marriage and female ordination. Church members can leave the church, but not take the church with them. The four BC groups, St Matthew’s (Abbotsford), St Matthias & St Luke’s (Vancouver), St John’s Shaughnessy (Vancouver) and Church of the Good Shepherd (Vancouver) took the property issues to court in September 2008.
The court decision was more than 90 pages long, but the crux of the issue can be boiled down to two key points: The Diocese of New Westminster said the main structure of the Anglican Church is the diocese and any parish within that part of the structure. The conservative group argued that once the Diocese of New Westminster allowed same-sex blessings to take place, it broke the rules of basic Christian faith and no longer had authority as a legitimate church entity.
But Wednesday’s ruling by Mr. Justice Stephen Kelleher said the diocese did not break faith when it allowed same-sex blessings, citing a general synod of the Anglican Church in 2007 that said the issue of same-sex marriage is not one of core doctrine.
It is not known how this ruling will affect other schismatic groups across the country.
Schismatic Anglicans in Canada have chosen to align themselves with with breakaway groups in the US, forming a separate province, with bishops from outside North America.
In the US some groups who left the world wide communion have won the right to keep church property.
The lawyer for the breakaway groups says the judge doesn’t understand doctrine.
“The judgement implies the Church can determine doctrine by democracy. And that shows a lack of understanding of what the Christian faith is about. Doctrine comes from scripture, the inspired word of God. And you can’t change what is in the scripture. We can’t vote on what we’ll believe.
“It’s a lack of appreciation of what Christian faith is about and a reflection of our society just how few Christians are left. It also sets a precedent not only for the Anglican churches in Canada but also for all religious denominations, in my view.â€
Ms. Chang also argued that the judge’s reading was incomplete. He did not take into account that, in her view, the majority of 70 million Anglicans in the world oppose same-sex blessing as running opposite to the Gospels.
“The judge said the buck stops in Canada, that the Church has the authority to do these things. And if you don’t go along you have to sacrifice your property and all your money.â€
Buildings are a small part of what church is, and a 98 page legal ruling on property – is about property.
Across Canada there are about 3500 people who have chosen to align with the ANiC, under the Anglican Province of the Southern Cone and Primate Gregory Venables in South America. New Westminister bishop Michael Ingham has written a letter which will be read Sunday inviting the schismatic congregants to continue worshipping in the buildings they went to court over.
The judge also ruled that a 2.2 million dollar trust in BC would remain with the breakaway congregants. The four properties in BC are worth about 20 million dollars.
Virtue Online
Vancouver Sun
Anglican Journal
As an Anglican for 29 years this is a shocking thing to see.
I’ve learned to see it for what it is and accept it for what it is.
8 out of 80 Priests in the Diocese are licensed to Bless same sex unions
This is a lower sacrament
How many person want it?
How many are Anglican?
$750,000 in legal fees affecting properties over this?
These is a word called ‘Exegesis’ which is a critical interpretation of something
The 80 Million Anglican Communion has never allowed such a thing until now.
The Roman Catholic Church does not allow it.
How many persons do and do not follow homosexual and lesbian feelings and why?
you are pretty quick to throw that Schismatic word around. Many would argue that the heretic is the true schismatic.
Kevin & Bene
I’ve been a member of St John’s (Shaughnessy) since 1980 and I remember the 2002 walkout at Synod
From 1972-2002 2/3rds of the 80 priests is around 53 grew in favour of blessing same-sex unions
Synod #1 Bishop Ingham says, “No”
” ” #2 ” ” , “I’ll think about it”
” ” #3 ” ” , “Yes”, to a question
Synod: Greek: Sun: Together, Hodos: The way.
Around 10 priests walked out at Synod #3 in 2002
Coincidence #1:
-Canada approved Gay Marriage in 2002, the same year as Bishop Ingham said, “Yes”
Coincidence #2:
-Canada changed marriage laws for the remarriage of divorcees in 1968, the same year as the Anglican Church of Canada started to remarry divorcees.
Before that, Anglicans would have to go over to the United Church of Canada whose motto is, ‘Dare to be first’
Things seem to start in the United Church, then the Anglican Church
The Special Vestry meeting has 433 persons attend, usual attendance at a Vestry is around 40 or so, the atmosphere at this one was really terrible.
They walked out, they broke away and aligned with groups who are more conservative in the same way they are.
The schism was a result of an increasing polarizating divide between liberals & conservatives in the interpretation of scripture
The conservatives felt Bishop Michael Ingham was too liberal
Bishop Michael Inhgam wrote ‘Rites for a New Age’ & ‘Mansions of the Spirit’
Critiques, Newspaper articles commented about hime not believing in the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ.
His vows as a Bishop though would include in him believing this amongst other things
‘Sing a New Song’ a biography of crusading Bishops in the Diocese of New Westminister by ‘Julie Ferguson’ the author at her booklaunch at the Central Library, which had around 12-15 persons, mainly older, a certain amount from Christ Church Cathedral.
Julie Ferguson commented about his book being ‘sketchy’ meaning he didn’t seem to get into much definitions about things.
When Bishop Ingham talked at St Margaret’s Cedar Cottage he said, “About Article 1 of the Holy Trinity is a mystery beyond what we can comprehend” and that was about it as far as getting into definitions is concerned. One could say, his talk was sketchy.
Bishop Michael Ingham was born in England, educated in Scotland
Bachelor’s Degree in Divinity
Master’s Degree in Philosophy
Master’s Degree in Political Science
When his father came back from the war he said, “How could there be a God with all the cruelty I’ve seen?”
Although he heard this, Michael Ingham became attracted to the Anglican Church.
So, I hope this gives you more insight as to what the dynamics are in this situation
Here is the real issue. When Michael Ingham accepted the position of Anglican Bishop he made a commitment before God and those in charge within the Anglican community to uphold the Christian faith and biblical doctrine. What Michael Ingham has done instead is push a secular liberal agenda that has no place in the Christian church. Furthermore, the weakness within the Anglican Church in general is that there is no proper accountability structure in place that would deal with removing someone from office when biblical commitments that were made are not kept. Michael Ingham will be judged by God for his disobedient behaviour towards God’s Word he was supposed to uphold, unless he repents and turns from his wicked ways.
Reply#5 Maurice Harding
Your comments and observations are very interesting:
-Michael Ingham: secular liberal agenda
-Weakness within the Anglican Church iin general that there is no accountablity structure
When there are changes of Laws are called Canons, etymology from two Greek words sun: together & hodos: the way, has to go through the Church Court to be approved.
This was so in 1968 with the remarriage of divorcees but not so in 2002 with the blessing of same-sex unions.
2/3rds of the Priests in the Diocese of New Westminister asked a question and Bishop Ingham said, “yes”
He is a Bishop and they are Priests but what they are not is the Church Court
Reply#5 Maurice Harding
Corr:
-Etymology:
-Canon:
-Greek: Kanon: Rule, Law
-Synod:
-Greek: Sun: Together, Hodos: The Way
Also,
-Diocese: Old French, Modern Latin: an area where churches are in
-Parish: Old French, Modern Latin: an area where a church is
To Maurice Harding
Thank you for you interest and research on this issue
On another one of Bene Diction Blogs On also about the Anglican Church I remember Dennis Gruending typing, “When Baptists have a schism, they go their separate ways but with the Anglicans and their schism, this is one of the worst things I’ve seen”.
Yes, I would agree, it has been really terrible and has been ongoing for eight years from the 2002 walkout at Synod till the present year of 2010.
Dr J.I. Packer mentioned about, “Heretical Bishops in the Anglican Church of Canada and the Episcopal Church in the United States is in even worse shape”.
Canon David Short, Rector of St John Shaughnessy Anglican Church has been quite instrumental in forming ‘The Anglican Church in North America’ is a New Province to add to the present 38 Provinces in the 80 Million Anglican Communion.
The present Anglican Church of Canada is one Province
The present Episcopal Church of the United States of America is another Province
http://anglicanchurch.net/
Maurice Harding
The 1st reply didn’t go in
Thank you for you interest in this very terrible situation involving the Anglican Church
Dennis Gruending commented on another post about the Anglican Church on Bene Diction Blogs on mentioned, “When Baptists have a schism, they just go their separate ways but this situation with the Anglican Church is most terrible”
Dr J.I.Packer also mentioned, “The Anglican Church of Canada has problems of heretical Bishops but the Episcopal Church of the United States of America is even in worse shape”
Canon David Short, Rector of St John’s(Shaughnessy)Anglican Church, has been instrumental in the forming of the new Province of the Anglican Church in North America to add to the present 38 Provinces in the 80 Million Anglican Communion.
Presently, The Anglican Church of Canada and the Episcopal Church of the United States are individual Provinces while the Anglican Church in North America is one Province.
Click below Anglican Church in North America websight
http;//anglicanchurch.net/
Maurice Harding
Corr web address
http://anglicanchurch.net/
Court has started again this time in April,May,June/10
I have not heard one single thing about it
In May is when Bishop Ingham will be asked to speak to the Court
Our Parish has been warned to be careful when the media comes to our church that they will use what we say to their own advantage
Call it Media hype or media version
4 Parishes are doing this
There are around 80 parishes in the lower mainland of VancouverBC is the Diocese of New Westminister
Around 7 or 8 have deeds
The four parishes are:
1.St John’s (Shaughnessy)
Has a deed is the largest and wealthiest Anglican Church in Canada
Our rector David Short is still on medical leave. He was involved in the new 39th Province is ‘The Anglican Church of North America’ covers both Provinces of Canada and the United States. This Province is in the process of approval by The Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams and Council in the Mother and Cradle Province of England
2.St Mattias & St Luke
Was originally St Mattias but St Luke moved out of its’ old building and merged with St Mattias is mainly Chinese
3.Church of the Good Shepherd
Has bought a new building on Cambie & W11th is mainly Chinese
4.St Martin’s Abbotsford
The location of Abbotsford BC is known as the bible belt
Good on parish leaders for giving attendees a heads up regarding media interviews.
This is already a mess and while people hold strong opinions and feelings, I think it’s less about media spin and more about complexity.
An passionate church goer makes good copy, but doesn’t shed light on the on-going legal batttles.
Thanks for the update.
An interesting backstory is that of the building that Church of the Good Shepherd (Chinese Anglican) acquired.
It used to be the Metropolitan Tabernacle, a church founded around the time of the depression by Scots fundamentalist expositor W. M. Robertson. It used to draw over 1,000 per service. It was patterned after the original Met in London, England, pastored in the late 19th century by the “prince of preachers”, Charles H. Spurgeon.
In Robertson’s later years and afterward, the Vancouver Met declined, running anywhere from 100 to 300. At various times, it was affiliated with the Evangelical Free and Associated Gospel denominations. It had some very good preachers as pastors — Robert Bahr and Ian Campbell to name just two.
Finally, a few years ago, Metropolitan Tabernacle did a property lease/swap with Good Shepherd, which owned a former Danish Lutheran church on 19th Avenue, seating about 150 people. When the Met moved, it renamed itself 19th Avenue Christian Fellowship.
As I understand it, a substantive bequest enabled Good Shepherd, a congregation of about 400, to acquire the building outright. That enabled a legal decision in favor of Good Shepherd, with respect to the property’s ownership. (A check with the reasons for judgement in the case should clarify and explain that decision.)
Lloyd Mackey
Thank you for your response
I’d already knew a good amount about Metropolitan Tabernacle and remembered is as ASG, Associated Gospel Church.
Somebody employed by Hill’s of Kerrisdale used to go there.
I’d once gone with him.
My mother worked at the same place
Metropolitan Tabernacle and the Church of the Good Shepherd did a building swap
In the beginning, they’d probably rented off of one another.
The bequest was given by a Doctor who’d moved from Hong Kong for the increase of a Chinese Anglican Parish
The bequest was around 1-2 million or so.
After the previous court case was over the bequest was given back to the Church of the Good Shepherd.
The Good Shepherd property was bought be the members putting 2nd and 3rd mortgages on their houses.
The bequest had never been used because of the legal battles.
Judge Kelleher used American Law when it comes to church properties over Canadian Law
Canadian Law does more honour to deeds on church property
St John’s (Shaughnessy) has a deed but I’m not shure of the other 3 churches.
Legal fees had been 750,000.00
At the end of the court case the bequest was given back to Church of the Good Shepherd
The four parishes appealed which could raise the total legal fees to around 1 Million Dollars
With the appealing is restarting the court case.
Since the bequest was given back to Good Shepherd at the conclusion of the first court case it was theirs.
But with appealing is starting all over again meant Good Shepherd had to give back the bequest until the final outcome of this second court case.
1 Bequest was never used
2 Bequest returned after court case
3 Bequest given back after appeal