18 Responses to “Southern Baptist do gooders face child trafficking and kidnapping charges”

1. 1 Hopesome  on Feb 1st, 2010 at 12:17 pm

   Do gooders need those that are ‘worse off than themselves’ in order to do good, feel good, and be good. The Church is full of do gooders. There has been a ‘great deal’ made of this tragedy by those who need it to give themselves ‘a reason, a season, a place, and a world stage on which to ’sit’. America should realise that church is not required here only LOVE, COMPASSION, HONOUR, INTEGRITY, AND THE HAITIANS NEED OF RESPECT AT BEING IN A PLACE OF DEPENDENCY ON OTHERS.

   Anyone walking into anothers place of dwelling with ‘hob nail’ boots on, full of their own imprtance and well-being should be swiftly ‘put in their place’, wouldn’t you do that if someone came into your house demanding to do things their way instead of respecting yours.

   As for God saying to do this and that then one must ask in whose hands does he place himself.

   IN ONLY THOSE THAT WOULD HONOUR HIM AND HIS.

   It’s easy to blame god, TOO EASY.

2. 2 Bene Diction  on Feb 1st, 2010 at 1:02 pm

   It’s easy to blame Satan too. I have no use for either.

   If this group doesn’t trust other groups including their own denomination, then find people in your own state to help.

3. 3 MDSF  on Feb 1st, 2010 at 1:25 pm

   I’m having a hard time making sense of the Haitian abduction stories, and I understand they’ve been better covered in Canada than they have here in the States, so maybe you know better than I do.

   I tend to agree with you that nobody is well-served by a bunch of amateurs inserting themselves into a world-beater of a humanitarian crisis, especially if they don’t speak the language, etc.

   That being said, I’m having trouble making sense of these numbers. Were there really 380 000 orphans in orphanages before the earthquake? If so, does that “300% increase” number make sense? That works out to 4 x 380 000 = 1 520 000 orphans in a country of about ten million people.

   I guess I have been a little jaded about the numbers generally coming out of Haiti: they all seem to be big and round, and most of them are government numbers unconfirmed by NGOs. In a country with a terrible corruption record:

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index

   I’m suspicious of official government attempts to clamp down on child trafficking, but am more likely to believe that the current Haitian government is trying to control information, make life difficult for relief organizations, etc. in the hope of becoming the single recipient for humanitarian relief.

4. 4 Sherm  on Feb 1st, 2010 at 1:29 pm

   It’s also easy to blame their arrogance. There are close-knit groups that think they can do whatever they wish, in whatever country they are in because they are the only ones who are right.

   Thank goodness the good outweighs the bad – it is a situation that is easily exploited. Poor kids.

5. 5 Bene D  on Feb 1st, 2010 at 1:50 pm

   “A judge met with nine of the Americans on Monday but because of uncertainty in the quality of translation, another interpreter “more acceptable to both sides” was being sought, NBC News reported. The judge and the Americans will meet again Tuesday. ” – MSNBC

   The Idaho SBCers are being kept in two rooms, in the same building the justice ministry of Haiti is operating out of and complaining about their conditions.
   One is in a US field hospital taking up a needed bed.

   I understand they are unaware that thousands of news outlets around the world have picked up their story, that Christians around the world are dismayed, that people are understandably angry.

   There are thousands of reputable people of faith who lost people they love, have lived and worked in Haiti, who respect their neighbours and friends, who are loving, trained and faithful boots on the ground. As Hopesome says, hobnailed boots are not welcome.

   Let’s hope the two governments can make a just decision on this group quickly.

6. 6 Bene Diction  on Feb 1st, 2010 at 4:22 pm

   MDSF:

   I think the US is doing a good job of covering the Idaho folk, however I do wish someone in the SBC would ask the two ministers from the two churches to stay away from media.

   They aren’t helping.

   I’ve been wondering what irks me about this story. It’s not that zealots are in a disaester area, that’s expected.

   It’s that the Americans currently in custody had the same information you and I have and they chose to do what they did anyway.

   The 300% figure is from the Idaho group currently being protected by the very government they chose to ignore.

   While 300% makes no sense to you or I, it made sense to the Idaho SBC churches and the new ‘charity’.

   The two SBC churches are not relief agencies. They didn’t even bother going through their state convention.
   After any disaster there is going to overlap of good smaritans and do-gooders as people groups move through the 3 R’s.

   370 thousand children being cared for prior to the Jan 12/10 quake.
   Fair enough. I quoted that number without looking up a reference.
   UNICEF estimates 380 thousand kids are being cared for in Haiti.
   The storms which battered the island from 2004-2008 makes it even more difficult to come up with accurate needs.

   Orphanage in Haiti doesn’t mean what it means in Canada.
   It means places caring for vulnerable children.

   Reliable NGO’s which have been on the ground supplying numbers to the UN and WHO such as The Catholic Relief Agency, Red Cross, World Vision etc. for years, at best can only give what they know.

   Nothing wrong with being jaded about numbers coming from anywhere, if there is money to be siphoned and stollen, it will be siphoned and stolen.
   Human nature doesn’t change.

   The Montreal meeting last week came up with a figure of 10 billion dollars for 10 years of restoration.
   Remains to be seen how much of that will disappear or how realistic that figure is.

   Restavek – means trafficked. See commenter #6 (jds) for the correct translation. My definition is incorrect.
   Children taken or sold for all kinds of service from domestic, to field labour to prostitution and criminal gangs.

   http://www.haiti-info.com/spip.php?article3724&lang=en

   Perhaps the CIA World Factbook, USAID or The US State Department have figures you’d be comfortable with.

7. 7 Bene D  on Feb 1st, 2010 at 5:32 pm

   Statement from the North American Mission Board person in the Baptist Press which is the official SBC inhouse publication:

   http://www.bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=32180

   Mike Ebert, a spokesman for the Southern Baptist North American Mission Board, told Baptist Press that in a situation like the earthquake aftermath in Haiti, it’s especially important for local churches and individuals to coordinate their plans and any mission trips through their state convention or through NAMB or the International Mission Board.

   “Part of that is just because we are keeping informed about all the requirements and regulations in play and restrictions and travel issues and safety issues and things like that,” Ebert said. “As part of our normal disaster relief work, NAMB is constantly in touch with local governments and many other disaster relief entities. So we have a lot of information about what is actually happening on the ground and how people can be the most effective.”

   Ebert said he doesn’t have any doubt that the team from Idaho had the best intentions as they were moved with compassion for children in Haiti.

   “The whole situation has served to illustrate the importance of working through the process that Southern Baptists have put into place over the years,” he said.

   “We’re preparing to send another team now into Haiti that will establish a more permanent disaster operations center there and will hopefully serve to help the free flow of Southern Baptist aid to the churches and the people that need it the most,” Ebert added.

8. 8 jds  on Feb 1st, 2010 at 10:10 pm

   Restavec means stay with (reste avec, French), not trafficked. According to this Haitian custom, economically poor parents send one or more of their children to work as indentured household servants in better off families. Restavec children are deprived of education, leisure and parenting and some are treated cruelly.

   From CNN’s timely followup report, most if not all of these so-called kidnapped children came from one very poor village (not from the streets of P au P). Solicited by a Haitian American priest who acted as intermediary, parents sent the children away. CNN interviews s father who sent 2 young daughters and a couple who sent the 8 or 9 year old girl who protested she was not an orphan. Reportedly, another family let go 5 of their children. From this report it appears these children were not directly affected by the quake, they were just very poor to start with. Even so they had a few toys at home and of course, their own parents!
   Watch the video:
   CNN talks to parents of children Americans accused of trafficking – http://bit.ly/bUZKHz

   This missionary venture is shockingly misguided and looks like it had some money-making impulse underlying it, even if not consciously so.

9. 9 Bene Diction  on Feb 1st, 2010 at 10:52 pm

   I saw the pamphlet the kids were given on CTV tonight.
   Unbelievable. We’d call it luring.

   Thanks jds avec – with. I missed the reste – stay. Thank you for the CNN link.

   From a biblical standpoint I find this groups actions disturbing.
   The 40 year old leader has business debt, that would disqualify her from mission leadership in most denominations.
   Who is taking care of her children while she is setting up her business/mission/adoption agency? ( she is a single parent)
   In the SBC there is no wider accountability, each church is autonomous, responsibility can be ignored or passed off to others with no consequence.
   Rev. Henry spent his media face time defending his church, doing damage control, blaming Haiti; the children were a statement afterthought.
   There is no record keeping, no paper work and documentation, no oversight, no tracking that NGO’s are doing.
   These are children, there was no planning of standard of care, no continuity of care.
   (Spiritualizing does not count)
   The behavior is open contempt for the source country law, as well as the destination country law and international law.
   There was no residence for children, merely temporary rented quarters where they had planned to jam 100 kids into 45 rooms.
   No training, background checks, anyone could have been given time with these kids.
   These leaders had no intention of staying with the children, of making the commitment most childrens ministries make.

10. 10 MDSF  on Feb 2nd, 2010 at 8:20 am

    Thanks.

    Yes; I get the impression that at best the folks from Idaho wanted to “do something” and went a little Wild West.

    If I were to take the news coverage for this story and cover up the distinguishing details: fat white Americans, Idaho, Southern Baptists, etc., I would have a hard time understanding why it has legs.

    The link you provided gives a little more context: as of 2004-2005

    Observers estimate 2,500-3,000 Haitian children are trafficked annually into the Dominican Republic.

    Is there any evidence that the group from Idaho was being anything more than stupid and negligent?

    This roundup article

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/cb_haiti_earthquake

    suggests they’ll be sent back to the States for trial because the Haitian court system can’t handle a trial. Go figure.

11. 11 Bene D  on Feb 2nd, 2010 at 11:25 am

    I think it has legs because of the prevelence of disaster crime and disaster tourism.

    Great site for solid information: Good Intentions Are Not Enough

    I think part of what is facinating to those of us outside the US is the mentality, the absolute disregard of Haitian government, culture and international law.

    “do-gooder:
    noun

    a well-intentioned but naive and often ineffectual social or political reformer”

    I think also the language of these SBC’ers is facinating. All the God talk from stateside and Haiti – as if that qualifies and drives them to save the world. This is not language the rest of us see or use daily, so when a woman sitting in a Haitian jail says Philippians 1, given her lack of awareness of behavior and responsibility, it’s is like watching children trying to wiggle their way out of a jam.

12. 12 Hopesome  on Feb 2nd, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    MDSF:

    The problem of being given aid is that you don’t want to bite the hand that feeds you and so compromise can begin to creep in. ie: you scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours. Thats why unconditional giving is so important.

    ‘You owe me’ should never be among us.

    Bene the last paragraph summed up an aspect that I find so infurinating; thank you.

13. 13 Bene D  on Feb 2nd, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    I can’t get riled up over these SBC’ers. The pastor, Rev. Henry is annoying, he really seems out of the loop and more interested in defending his church than anything else.

    Today he demanded they be released because they hadn’t seen a judge within the 48 hour time frame in the Haitian constitution.

    The five women appeared before a magistrate today, the five men will tomorrow.

    They’ve had unlimited access to US consular officials, food, shelter, safety, medical attention and a lawyer and I think some of them were just callously naive and clueless. All of them – hard to say.

    To be honest, watching this group has raised my respect for people on the ground who are trained, who do care, and who are concentrating on the task at hand instead of pontificating.
    SBC governance is so broke they are going to bluster their way into oblivion.

    I’m also impressed the US government has been clear the Haitians will take the lead on what happens to this group.

14. 14 Howie51  on Feb 3rd, 2010 at 6:24 pm

    Lets say – for the sake of trying to make sense out of this, that the group accused of trying to remove these children from Haiti were Taliban and not garden variety Baptists. Suddenly, the entire scheme comes into a vastly different focus, because without doubt, in their own defense, the Taliban spokesmen would insist that God told them to move these children to Dominican Republic, and that they were “only trying to help”. We can clearly expect the outrage and hostility that would naturally follow any such attempt. I can almost hear the chorus of voices that would be calling for the death penalty, insisting that God cannot possibly speak to the Taliban, and yet it is patently obvious that neither did he address the Baptists to follow any such plan.

    What will be most interesting is whether the Haitian officials will use this incident to send a very clear message to any groups, (Christian or otherwise), that kidnapping of their citizens will under no circumstances be tolerated. and to add a sufficient deterrent, that they will seek a severe penalty for every member involved. Perhaps this will help to serve as a reminder for other crusaders to check the message from God a bit more carefully, and try to use a bit of common sense when religious fervor strikes.

15. 15 Bene D  on Feb 3rd, 2010 at 10:48 pm

    It is my understanding the US State Department is respecting the the Haitian government process and has stated so publicly.

    I commend the US government.
    I see few citizens defending the choices of this group. Good on our neighbours to the south.

    There have been enough catastrophic events in all our lifetimes for governments and NGO’s to learn that a two year moratorium on adoption after a disaster is in the best interests of all concerned.

    A message has to be sent, whether it will be the Idaho Baptists on the receiving end remains to be seen. We’ll know soon.

16. 16 Hopesome  on Feb 4th, 2010 at 9:51 am

    Howie 51 : Absolutely spot on:

    One Law for one and one Law for another, thats why we end up in the melting pot of fury at the injustices that are in play and that are as nations as well as individuals winding us all up.

    The Government shall be upon his shoulders, Jesus knew the divisions among us.

    When a disaster strikes be it in the home in the neighbourhood or in and on a national basis we should all muck in and take each one our responsibility.

    Example: A friend of ours has incurable cancer. The issues surrounding it have been many and healing was required not only for the patient but also for his circumstances: His sons felt that as a father he had fallen short and were reluctant to offer him their support. They were also in the need of healing before they could draw near to him. They had had no solid foundation from which to gift or help in this ‘crisis’. (He had divorced their mother and brought the boys up himself but to the boys this was not enough and they were both very angry ) The friends arround him had issues and found that they could not offer much in the way of support because they needed it themselves.

    What did the Father do for both a Father and his children and his friends.

    He sent someone in to HEAL THE WHOLE.

    Someone who the Lord had taken through deep crisis and so new both him as a Father and Healer.

    They took the boys anger and allowed it, they ministered with meals, housework, shopping, medication, and the cooking. They fed the neighbours and ended up cooking a meal for them and then doing their shopping when one of them fell and broke his wrist. They have been the mediator between the war ‘on wants’ and never ever were they in want for themselves for the Father gifted as they ‘walked’ all of their needs.

    LOVE NEVER FAILS only we do for the lack of it.

    Had his sons been taken ‘out of the circumstance they would not have had the truth nor the beauty of a Fathers love right their among them and with them. They were poor but now they are on the way to wealth and needed to know that money is secondary when you are in a dry desolate place in need of a living water.

    Haitis children need to witness the rebuilding of their own homeland but be protected from those that wish to exploit it.

    My eyes have been opened at the witness of HIS GREAT LOVE for his children and I have been humbled by ‘the one who the Father sent to heal.

    We need to stop sqabbling as so much is at stake: and so the boys are now being brought into unison with the circumstances so that old wounds can be taken and the passing be surrounded with the passion and peace of a LOVE THAT IS UNREQUITED FOR THE NEED OF OURS, TO GIFT HIS. Jesus’s name hasn’t been mentioned, there was no need, HE WAS THERE. When we take his presence with us it speaks for itself.

    The ones being held captive in Haiti are so in more ways than one.

    I have longed to ‘jump in’ and do my ‘bit’ but the Father has said no; Tthe one who serves is not only who they are but also who I am (and you are not: I knew what he was telling me. Not your territory right now so I am having to obey) We all want to do good but the territory we enter should be one we are familiar with and able in and have authority thereby and thereof.

    My role is to support his not take it and so should we all be in his will, not want what we want or think we want or need. Haitis hope should be its own and ours the support to gift it.

    ‘MY LOVE IS GREATER BUT I NEED YOURS TO BE MINE AND MINE TO BE YOURS ONLY THEN CAN WE MOVE THE MOUNTAIN OF MANS GREAT NEEDS.

    Lord BEGIN

17. 17 Therese  on Feb 4th, 2010 at 7:37 pm

    It dawned on me a little while ago as I was watching a documentary in which the behaviour of chimpanzees was being studied, that the urge to “help” that people have in some situations is just natural and that even animals have it – this natural urge has helped the human race survive and seems to be ultimately born out of self-interest and/or self-identification with the one needing help. It’s interesting though, how we like to think being “helpful” earns us brownie points with God, when in fact, it is part of the whole “beast nature” package that we need to overcome in ourselves – so that when our “helping” proceeds out of His nature within us instead of “self” (flesh) it will not be out of order as it appears to have been in this situation in Haiti. It really makes sense to me in terms of the gospel message and this is why Jesus was able to truthfully say no one is good but the Father.

    (Not to say that people should stop trying to help each other at all, but just to realize humbly that it’s just natural not necessarily virtuous, and that there is an even better way for us as we grow in the Lord and learn to do HIS will, not ours.)

1. 1 Idaho Southern Baptists charged in Haiti at Bene Diction Blogs On Pingback on Feb 4th, 2010 at 12:10 pm

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