By Rick Hiebert. All Rights Reserved. Used By Permission
On Friday, February 5, as Todd Bentley was starting to collect an offering at the Morningstar sanctuary in Fort Mill S.C., men who have a serious disagreement with the evangelist and his theology started to cry out from the crowd. Not only were Bentley’s own security involved, the police were called to deal with and remove the protestors.
Over the past couple days, although there has been apparent silence from Todd Bentley and the local media on this, enough has come out on the Internet that we can now safely say that Bentley, or one of his friends, or admirers, summoned police to ensure that the protestors, who were apparently peaceful, were taken away.
Instead of the “dumanis power” of the Holy Spirit, Bentley has apparently resorted to the power of the truncheon. This seeming sheep has bared some wolf fangs.
I’ll try to summarize and report on what Bene D has kindly noted while I was away from the computer yesterday, add what I can, and then offer some commentary.
I am flying on instruments here, but I will try to be careful and fair.
Kathi Sharpe, who I understand was a Christian apologist at one time, was the first source that tipped me off that something was amiss. She is now a great fan of Bentley’s and as such, we can assume that her post on the events at Morningstar does not overstate things to make Bentley look bad. She is such a fan of Bentley’s, moreover, that she is apparently convinced that the gentlemen that publicly differed with Bentley are not Christians at all. She noted (em[phasis mine):
Security helped them all find the door. All but one went peacefully.
Janet went to the ladies room shortly after that and said the place was swarming with police. I’m not sure if the guys got arrested, or if the cops just gave them a stern talking to.
Evidently whoever called for the police may have implied that these protestors were quite dangerous. Instead of a deputy, which is all that was needed, a "swarming" was produced.
Why did the Fort Mill police respond in this way? Why so many police? Is the local police chief that eager to get involved in what is essentially a loud argument at a church? Why not send one policeman to assess the situation and then call for back-up if necessary?
The response seems odd in another way too.
The local newspaper, the Fort Mill Times, has just updated its newspaper website through this past weekend, when the Todd Bentley "incident" took place. Although the newspaper is running online a story about a local policeman being shot, whatever happened at Morningstar was apparently not even newsworthy enough to make the paper's Police Blotter section yet.
Is this perhaps evidence that "swarming" is overreacting on the police's part?
Fort Mill is located in York County in South Carolinia, so it is possible that the local Sheriff's Office might have been asked to deal with it. There are no public statements to that effect on the department website.
There's nothing in Google News yet about this either. But there is apparently more information circulating in blogs.
Three people who say they participated in the protest have commented online.
A "Daniel Courtney" added his comments to Kathi Sharpe's blog post, writing that as he had been blessed the times he had gone to Morningstar in the past, participating in the protest was difficult for him to do:
I am one of those that spoke out on Friday night at Morningstar. I want you to understand why we did what we did. We are not pharisees and it really grieves my heart that any time someone speaks out against sin and stands up for holiness they are called pharisees. Todd Bentley has not only committed adultery but continues in it unrepentant. Repentance is not just saying you are sorry but there must be action to back it up (Matt3:8).....Our hearts were broken and have been broken before God since the whole Todd Bentley scandal. We prayed before we went to Morningstar that night and searched our hearts. We asked the Lord for a spirit of meekness like He has. With so many young people, who we know love the Lord, looking up to Rick Joyner and the leaders at Morningstar we can't let the dismissal of Todd Bentley's sin go unanswered. Going to Morningstar and publicly rebuking Todd Bentley was a last resort. It was not a thing that we did just for fun or because we have a chip on our shoulders. We did what we did because there is grievous error, concerning Todd Bentley's restoration, in the Morningstar leadership that has gone unchecked for many months.
It is interesting that "Daniel" notes that officers from the Sheriff's office--of York County, perhaps--were there. Perhaps the Morningstar compound is a rural area of Fort Mill, where Sherriff's deputies would be the first responders. [Unlike most Western movies that you have seen, I fear that the Sheriff's men actually helped the guys with the black hats this time.]
This is how Daniel saw the police involvement:
We were not all graciously shown the door. Some of the ushers were rather gracious considering the circumstances, but some where very forceful. Not really sure why the Sheriff’s office was called but most of them were pretty gracious.
“Some of [Bentley's security] were very forceful”. “Most of the Sheriff’s office” were pretty gracious. “Most” does not mean “all”. Did one of the police deputies go a bit far? How? If, God forbid, we guess that the Sherriff’s deputies could have been a little abusive, that demonstrates why police shouldn’t be called to church meetings ever.
A statement by the Sheriff or Police Chief on this affair would be very helpful. Is he comfortable with sending his deputies into a church? Is he going to police annual church meetings to make sure that arguments over how to paint the church do not get out of hand?
Kathi Sharpe, not a friend of Daniel’s, comments in turn that she believes she saw this happen:
….Also, I don’t know where you and your brother were in the room, nor do I know what happened after people were escorted from the room – but several of your bunch did NOT go quietly. In fact one of you had to be picked up and carried out of the room….
Parenthetically, it’s interesting that Sharpe has such a desire for accuracy. It seems, Christian internet apologist Bud Press would say, that this desire to get things right comes and goes. At the bottom of her original post, she writes: “I’m pretty sure that one of hte guys was Bud Press. Sounded like his voice”. She includes a smiley face which may indicate that she might be joking. But to even joke that Press would be the sort of person to get dragged out of a church by cops is underhanded.
Press mentions, in a public statement, that he was dog-sitting that night. If only Sharpe had a fully operational Biblical gift of tongues and intepretation…
Bud Press to dog: “Okay now, was I babysitting you?”
Dog: “Arf!” *wags tail*
Kathi Sharpe: “My mistake. I apologize…”
Being serious again…
A second protestor, “Michael” commented on the last post:
As I was present for this event, being one of those demonic aura giver-offers, I may be able to shed some light on our reasons for what we did. Just to clear things up, no it was not staged by Bentley, no we did not know beforehand Oprah’s crew would be there, and no we aren’t demonic. We are Bible-believing Christians who, according to 1 Corinthians 5, are supposed to confront Christians who are in sin….
….We also handed out some pamphlets while we were there, explaining why we were there. I’ll get that to you soon (found this blog before going to bed).
Michael points to a lengthy statement from a third protestor, Ante Pavkovic. Pavkovic is involved with Operation Rescue/Operation Save America, a very conservative evangelical group. I myself find some things to admire in Operation Rescue (which is best known for staging blockades at abortion clinics in the U.S).. But, I do understand and acknowledge that more liberal Christians find fault with what they teach and do, as well as their connections to other groups and I make note of that.
I’ve linked to the entire statement above. He has perhaps strongly conservative point of view on many questions about Mr. Bentley. To summarize, Pavkovic believes Bentley to be a heretic, an “impentient liar and drunkard”. Moreover, Joyner and Morningstar, he argues, are morally lax and theologically unsound.
One particular section alludes to something that Daniel and Michael are also very concerned about, so I quote Pavkovic’a arguments on Bentley’s adultery and eventual marriage to his former intern:
“….And Bentley has REFUSED TO OBEY God’s Word and be reconciled to his wife, but instead has married the YOUNG WOMAN he was in adultery with, and this with Rick Joyner’s sanction!….True prophets preach against sin and bring men to repentance. But false prophets strengthen men in their evil doings, as MorningStar and Joyner have done on many levels and now especially with Bentley. Instead of bringing the man to repentance or dealing with him as Scripture would dictate, Bentley has been strengthened in his evil doing, as will many others by this horrible, yet bold example. Adultery, lying, and then marrying a much younger and prettier woman is OK and you can still be in the ministry! Forget that Paul said a minister must be the husband of one wife, above reproach and BLAMELESS! (1Tim. 3:1-13).”
Bentley’s friends might say that I am about to go on and “blame the victim”, but I believe that even if you don’t agree with the protestors’ tactics, their indigation with the evangelist is justified. Perhaps even righteous in some ways, if you agree with their views on divorce and remarriage.
Todd Bentley operates as if he believes that he has a sound theology of divorce and remarriage. He has married again to the woman that–let’s be frank–caused his divorce.
But we have never seen his theology or divorce and remarriage, even though he has been working on it for over a year. The last hold-up was allegedly due to Rick Joyner having to review it…but that was weeks if not months ago now.
The various restoration videos with the Bentleys and Joyner dance around the question and say that they are going to give frank answers, but they do not.
This theological package allowing Bentley to remarry is so profound that it has allowed Joyner to give his okay to what is happening. But it is top secret. Why not publicize it…unless it would collapse like a house of cards?
If the reasons allowing Bentley to remarry are so strong, why couldn’t Bentley have used them to refute the protestors at the meeting last week? He rattles off hour long-sermons at the drop of a hat–why not put the protestors in their place with a few well chosen words? Is he not able to?
Bentley’s charismatic audience is strongly conservative. “A man should marry only once” would probably be the default position on this matter for most of them. But Bentley refuses to speak to the question.
Is is any wonder that some are frustrated with his lack of candor?
Is it any wonder that some feel that confronting Todd Bentley in public is the only way to get some straight answers and straight talk?
And let’s look at Bentley’s actions. Where is the “gentle answer that turns away wrath”? Did Bentley offer one of them some time to make their case, in a peaceful manner? Is he so fearful of contradiction that anyone who wants to confront him, in a responsible way, has to be driven out of the church? Was he brave enough to offer them the mike? You would figure that he should be confident enough that the protestor’s arguments would fall apart to not be worried about what they say, right? But at least one of them was, reportedly, bodily hauled out of the service.
Bentley, it would seem, had little confidence in the Holy Spirit’s ability to convince and convict the protestors? Was the “anointing” at Morningstar not powerful enough to sway the intruders? If people are being allegedly healed again, wouldn’t this be an simple afterthought on the Holy Sprit’s list of things to do in the service? Assuming the protestors were in the wrong, of course.
One of Bentley’s statements in one of his webinars comes to mind. I quoted it in a post, and I would like to do so again. Emphasis is added:
“I did get remarried. Because I believe that it is better to get remarried than to burn. I said ‘God, I’m in love. This woman [Jessa] is in love with me. God I want to honour you…I’m going through a season of restoration. I want the love of my life to stand with me and support me and it’s gonna happen anyways. I’m gonna get married now.†That may not have been the best decision at the time for all of you, but today I’m very happy. I’ve never been this happy. Sorry for you to hear that. I am happy. Very happy. And I’m glad that I have the lady of my life today that I have today and that doesn’t mean that I dishonour Shonnah. I love her…we’re moving on and I ask you to move on with me.â€
I think this is the real answer that Bentley wants to give to those who feel he is an adulterer–I’m happy now. Deal with it. I have.
Is he brave enough to say it as his formal statement on this matter? I suspect that he wants to, but realizes that it would deal a death blow to his hopes of being a famous evangelist.
What happened at Morningstar last week was Bentley with the mask off, and it is a bit scary.
I fear that Todd Bentley wants to do whatever he wants to, and the end will justify the means. If you corner him, he will be blunt. Either rhetorically or literally. And nothing is blunter than a policeman’s nightstick.
Rick and Bene D:
Interesting article. Good points.
In my April 2009 article, “Todd Bentley: Preaching the Gospel ‘Won’t Win Souls,’” I pointed out that Bentley “claims that during a mission trip, he and his team encountered drug addicts and gangsters while preaching in the ghettos of South Africa.”
Source: http://www.christianresearchservice.com/ToddBentley13.htm
In the same article, I quoted Bentley stating that “about 30 gangsters” were “taunting and mocking” people of whom Bentley and his team had witnessed to. But instead of avoiding the gangsters, or allowing law enforcement to get involved, and having security remove the gangsters, Bentley claims he confronted the gangsters as follows:
“What could I do? How could I convince them? Would preaching more convince them? Would a lesson in theology convince these violent youth and drug addicts? I thought not. I called them over and said, ‘Fine, that’s what you believe, but line up right here and let me lay hands on you. Watch how God will touch you. I guarantee that if God doesn’t touch you, that I will say that God isn’t real.’”
While stating that, “I guarantee that if God doesn’t touch you, that I will say that God isn’t real” is disturbing in and of itself, my point is this: If Todd Bentley’s story is true, why didn’t he demonstrate the same boldness to the “five” men as he did with “about 30 gangsters” in the ghettos of South Africa?
Five Christian men compared to “about 30 gangsters” should have been a no-sweat situation for Bentley, especially when he has his “ANGELS! ANGELS! ANGELS!” to command at a moment’s notice.
Bud Press
Rick did the work on this one Bud, he gets the credit.
The five men involved appear to be:
Daniel Courtney and his brother
Michael ___?
Ante Pavkovic
Levi Gray
Joyces husband?
Names were found in comment sections at Kathi Sharpe’s blog and BDBO.
-Daniel Courtney says they were not looking for attention. (I’m skeptical)
-independent film maker Roy Peterson present
-Bentley twitters he was doing an interview with Lisa Ling for OWN (Feb 7/10)
-Roy Peterson says he got interviews with the men and that part2pictures was working for OWN
-Mr. Courtney also mentions an Oprah Winfrey network (OWN, formerly Discovery Health Channel – Forbes)
-Courtney says he did interviews with Ling and Peterson
http://intensedebate.com/people/danielcourtney
-Joyce comments at BDBO that a ‘senior pastor’ attempted to approach Bentley pre-service and was not permitted to do so
-Ante Pavkovic has made the news before http://www.benedictionblogson.com/2007/07/12/operation-save-america-disrupts-us-senate/
I don’t know if Pavkovic and his friends were acting on behalf of Operation Save America, I haven’t found pr from the group to indicate the group were OSA members, going off script for some face time. (yes, I’m skeptical)
-Daniel Courtney has a video up at YouTube of Pavkovic at anti abortion protest, he appears to be a partner activist
-The services at MorningStar were a pay to go event – $110/US, however Fresh Fire USA states Friday and Saturday night were open to the public
-Fort Mill is a town of approximately 9400 people in a township with a population of 35 thousand.
-The Fort Mill police department has 31 officers
-York County Sheriff Dept has 93 employees
-MorningStar: The Apologetics Index – 2004 article from The Herald:
“The site, near Fort Mill’s Regent Park, includes a 500-room hotel, Main Street shops, an 1,800-seat conference center and an unfinished 21-story tower.
The church bought the property for $1.6 million from Fort Mill developer Earl Coulston of Coulston Enterprises, who plans to build commercial property and housing on 900 acres.”
-According to a 2007 article in the Herald (Religion News Blog) the site is 52 acres.
-Daniel Courtney mentions Sheriff, Kathi Sharpe says she was told police were swarming. How many is a swarm?
Were Fort Mill town police and the Sheriff’s department involved?
Who called the police?
How often is outside media at a MorningStar/Bentley event?
I’m not a Todd Bentley fan. I do think the question of why Todd resorted to human help rather than relying on divine help as he claims to have done in the past, is a very good question.
But. Interrupting or disrupting a worship service is a mis-demeanor in most states and provinces. We have a right to gather here without fear of being disrupted by those who oppose our views, theology, or ideology. I think that’s a good thing.
I don’t agree that the “Christian” thing to do is let these, or any, guys have their say in a public meeting. This would be a precedent I certainly wouldn’t want to live by if atheists, witches, or even a baptist showed up on Sunday mornings to object to my teaching on the end times, spiritual gifts or Bible interpretation.
How is what they did any different than Bene showing up at every, or even one, taping of 100 Huntley to speak out what he’s written here every time the cameras start to record?
Legally what they did was wrong. I’d suggest wisdom would say it’s a bonehead move. Kingdom wise are these concerned folks really convinced that nobody – like Rick and Bene here or Local Pastor or even Lee Grady – haven’t been confronting Bentley and those who follow him? Nonsense.
Luther said we want to be deceived. Some of us will follow Todd and his mentally ill teaching and activities and those who exploit his illness for their own greed and avarice until Jesus shows up and ends the service. And he will.
I think you’re trying to milk this story for more than it is worth.
These “protesters” acted rudely and were disruptive. Plain and simple.
Yet, you’re using this story as an excuse to re-hash all the much documented sins of Bentley. Even with all the articles posted on this incident, there hasn’t really been anything added specifically about Bentley.
Sadly, there been a load of speculation. And a bunch of nonsense suggestions about what Bentley should have done.
This incident, though worthy of mention, is really just warmed over hash. Few facts. Much speculation. And of lot of sarcastic criticism about what Bentley should have done.
All, in all, this is NOT the best reporting on Bentley I’ve seen from you guys.
This episode just gets more interesting. I truly appreciate this informative reading.
I don’t watch a lot of the secular TV, because when I gave my heart to Jesus, I just don’t have the desire for it. However, I was curious about Ophray Winfrey, and started reading about her. She is such a household name. Anyhow, I immediately came accross info on her new age type religion. How she is looking for the miracles. It’s on the internet.
If Todd Bentley and Rick Joyner and others at Morningstar are quite aware of Ophray Winfrey’s type quest, well, no wonder that Todd Bentley had a good time at the interview. He obviously felt quite at home.
If the followers at Morningstar are in the New Age quest, then it’s time for the true christians to step forward. In other words, get out of the mess.
I’ve been to Morningstar a few times. That’s all it took for me. There is something not quite right with it all. Looking back, I know now that just having Jesus in my life and in my home is everything! I’ll stick with the real Jesus.
Theres a lot going on in the pulpit right now.
Theres the Political voice.
Theres the I AM voice.
Theres the ‘Pay Up and Look Happy’ voice.
Theres the ‘COME’ voice.
Theres the ‘You Are Not Going To Enter My Domain, (or question it) voice, or I will call the police (they were on the verge of doing that in a church in Colorado when confronted with questions they could not answer!) and have you thrown out because I RULE HERE not……………..
Jesus does not ask us to choose. MAN DOES.
ALL OF THIS IS CAUSING DIVISION AND RAISING DIVISION AND Jesus’s name is being used to justify it
The property aspect is something that to me is a problem. A 500 room hotel takes a lot to ‘run even’ never mind make a profit especially ‘IN THESE TIMES!’ (And as they were asking for help from the congregation to ‘turn over the rooms’ before the Oak Initiative conference people showed up it says to me that theres a problem either he can’t afford the staff or can’t get the staff or has no intention of paying staff but yet wants it done.
So if that is the scenario what would you do.
Be creative.
Get people ‘on Board’.
Say ‘What a Wonderful Time We Are all having come and join us
Oh’ by the way Jesus we would really appreciate your turning up for this cos after all we are doing it in your name.
One things for sure FORT MILL IS NOW ON THE MAP and if you are thinking of moving there they have a ‘how to re-locate facility (or did) on the website
I may live in a small town with a lack of shoes shops but right now it seems like heaven.
You shouldn’t need the police to hustle you out or a bouncer – WE SHOULD ALL BE ALLOWED A VOICE.
Thank you Bene for allowing and Mr Heibert keep digging for that jewel of truth in the crown of LIES.
Dude,
Have a little pity. You don’t know what it is having death threats every week for years. Both Joyner and Bentley have constant death threats.
I attended 8 years ago and a man was standing to the side watching Joyner, and he got unnerved while preaching.
I don’t think any of you know what it is to be hated. By Satanists, Muslims, make your own list.
Why is it puzzling so troubling to call police?
You don’t have a clue what’s going on when you say that.
These are the type of people who kill abortionists.
And if they aren’t you still have no way of knowing that.
It is grossly unfair to criticize for having security, unless you believe that they should walk in faith and not go to doctors or not to have anything to do with the sheriff as the Amish do if they get robbed.
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Hopesome,
I agree with the property aspect issue. From what I can see, they could benefit from some of the realestate. Just an observation. That tower for instance. For example, when someone buys into the tower, who keeps the investment when someone expires? That’s just one of so many questions about that tower.
That place was not good during PTL, and yet I’m sure on the surface some good was done. However, there was so much grief and heartache when the truth came out.
I’m sure that beyond what we see already, there is much grief with the first Mrs. Bentley and children. I know first hand just what divorce does. Even Jessa does not seem to care. Where is the remorse? Could it be they don’t care. Anyone with half a heart can see there is much more.
I will venture to say that when some people at Morningstar saw temptations come their way, they have not resisted. They fell for the lie.
I actually applaud these men, for standing up to the overt and liscensed sin that Bentley and his handlers, and supporters like Kathi Sharpe promote. Still no repentance with the enumerated heresies that spewed from Bentley, the charlatan-”esque: way he made himself wealthy, the transparent demonic manidfestations and doctrines. Sharpe and her husband “discerned” something evil, and even “saw”it. Kathi has a propensity tro be enamored with her visions, prophetic words, and “insights”. Unforetunately, the bibliacally illiterate like her and those who follow these reprobates only have their own esoteric feelings and pruely subhjectiontestimonies. Thos who stand up against the NAR, it’s so called prophets and apostles have is object truth, that this man is still living as an unrepentant adulterer, and has no business being anywhere near a gathering of beleivers. He IS marked, HE is supposed to be under disciple. Instead Joyner with breathtaking audacity is defiling those in attendance that are more enamored with whatever sign, wonder, promise of healing,,( of course no documentation ever foillows Bentley’s misntry that actaully has been healed or raised from the dead, another demonic LIE),instead of being transformed in their mind. What Kathi fails to understand probaly because she and her husband epitomize wolves in sheeps clothing is that they are becoming twice the sons of Hell they were before, and I am convinced that the falsehoods the “signs” that follow Bentely are known to him. he is an unmitigated practioneer of nothing more than New-age Gnosticism, blaspeheming and lying jsut liek his father..Satan does. And scripture promises that in these last days it will get worse.
George, you appear to have knowledge of threats.
Would you elaborate?
There is no dispute that police attended.
That an OWN crew and an independent producer were present is also not in dispute.
We know MorningStar is also politically involved, the Pew Forum and other sources has all the information you need.
There are eye witness and participatory responses as to why a protest occurred.
I’m asking a question based on a participants link to an article about Bentley on Operation Save America, a well known activist group.
It is no different than the question on whether Bentley staged this.
Would you fill us in on what policies MorningStar Ministries has in place regarding police response?
Do you know who called law enforcement?
I cannot approve of any law-breaking. Now is not the time for that.
So, if disrupting a worship service is against the law, then do not disrupt a worship service!
Here in Reno, a sign on the local Country Western Bar, called “Mustangs” at the Grand Sierra Resort… the sign on the stage tells the band: “If there is a fight, tell them to quit.”
There, that is the common sense attitude, no?
If people disrupt a country western band by fighting on the dance-floor, well, tell them to quit!
Likewise, if people disrupt a service of Todd Bentley’s, tell them to quit!
A little back-and-forth reasoning or dialogue might help!
Anyway, I’d like to address a larger issue. Let’s look real WIDE ANGLE. Let’s stand back and consider the last 100 years of history….!
And it explains the idiotic demagoguery of Todd Bentley et al…
So here goes:
Disabusing Theo-political Utopian Fantasies
By Robert Winkler Burke
Of inthatdayteachings.com
Copyright 2/9/10
How did the world get to be so mind-enslaved,
And in such a money mess?
Well, let’s peel away the layers of false utopias,
And you’ll see God’s truth best!
The big Orwellian false utopia,
Is a century of hidden progressive reign,
The liberal’s destruction of all known,
Western Enlightenment and truth’s gain.
But how could a world,
Be blind to all this?
False Christian doctrine,
Helped evil’s bliss!
Four false Christian utopian schemes,
Enabled progressive political lies!
Broadcast Christian errors of supine ease,
Enabled liberal, mind-shackle jive!
The first false Christian utopian scheme,
Is prosperity’s give-to-get lie,
Wealth comes from goods and services,
Not the Ponzi-schemer’s cry!
The second false Christian utopian scheme,
Rapture’s selling of great fear!
The doctrine is infantile and plain crazy,
To mature: is why we’re here!
The third false Christian utopian scheme,
Is slouch-doctrine selling great laziness,
Rome wasn’t built by this: but how lost!
To do nothing: makes people penniless!
The fourth false Christian utopian scheme,
Is intellectual, emotional jabberwocky blindness,
The kind that demagogues use shamelessly,
To make sheep worship their behind-ness!
Thus with these popular four doxies,
Shepherds for one-hundred years raped sheep!
While politicians enslaved minds,
To progressive’s hidden-slavery power sweep!
That’s why the Twenty-First Century,
Looks so bleak!
Theo-political ministers,
Make us weep!
The Orwellian people in charge,
They get by well!
But woe to the sheep-citizens,
They live in hell!
Antichrist rapture causes fear, and fear makes hell, not utopia!
Antichrist prosperity causes greed, and greed makes hell, not utopia!
Antichrist slouch-doxie causes immaturity, and immaturity makes hell, not utopia!
Antichrist demagoguery causes mind-slavery, and mind-slavery makes hell, not utopia!
Antichrist liberal progressivism causes destruction, and destruction makes hell, not utopia!
Thus clerical tyranny combines,
With political tyranny,
To disavow Western Enlightenment,
Unbeknownst: enslaving many!
Liberal concepts of utopia,
Destroy Western Enlightenment’s good,
Transparency, check and verify,
Beware self-interest and idols of wood!
Rapture, prosper, slouch, emotion ministers,
And progressive politicians are all Pharaohs!
Awaken to In That Day Teachings,
Get free from enslavement! From them: fly like arrows!
Well then, that’s a large concept to swallow,
Un-confessed, insidious, hidden clerical and political tyranny,
Is the reason the world is financially fallow,
But In That Day, God’s indwelt spirit and truth sets you free!
Yes, In That Day,
Multitudes shall see!
What trapped them and,
What sets them free!
Benedic
Do you know if Obama gets threats? Have you seen them? The threats have been common knowledge for years. I mean for the last 15 years.
Why is it that the deputies swarmed the place? Do you think they are idiots?
I assure you that York County has one of the best sheriffs around.
I don’t attend, but my family does.
A friend of my boys was there that night.
My family wasn’t there, but if they were I would have been the first one to call 911.
These are the type of people that you can’t trust until you know them.
It might be easy to say they are harmless unless it was your family there that night.
I have no respect for them even after reading some of their stuff.
They despise long hair, rock music, tatoos, just read their stuff.
Try telling that to Chuck Smith and Lonnie Frisbee and the Jesus Movement which changed America.
Susan:
It just grieves me to think that the flock may be getting fleeced for someone elses purposes and whats happening ‘upfront’ is hiding whats going on behind.
I hear what you are saying about the circumstances with the children. Sensitivity can sometimes be in short supply and short lived!
Thanks George, the US Secret Service has publicly stated your president gets a lot of threats. According to The Boston Globe:
No one is disparaging law enforcement, I don’t understand what you mean by ‘do you think they are idiots.’ I don’t think that, nor do I think Rick Hiebert thinks that.
If you can help us out with which law enforcement agencies attended, it would be appreciated.
I’ve made it clear in the past what I think of OSA , MorningStar, Bentley; I’m not going to keep repeating myself, the search field is on the sidebar for your use.
I think decisions Friday night make it more than a local event.
And there is no guarantee that Todd will never fall again, just as there are no guarantees for any of us. However, he will probably be far less likely to fall than those who have never fallen but have judged with pride or condemnation those who have. We see clearly in the Scriptures that the Lord has a lot of mercy for sinners, but none for the self-righteous, and that such pride usually precedes a fall.
This is not to imply that all who question or oppose Todd’s release are doing this out of pride, but it is a form of pride to make important or sweeping judgments with partial information.
I read the ‘trying to be contrite’ statement and wondered how he dare’d insult everyone so and expect us to believe him when the smile behind the statement was evident.
Ha Ha Ha, they are good at laughing in Morning Star. Lets wind them up says the statement! – With biblical ‘justification they are on a roll and know it.
Evidence: Where’s dignity, where’s honour and respect, where’s truth, where’s life love and passion
Answer: Merely within their own borders.
Todd has fallen:
Its a watered down message that is supposed to pacify rather than clarify and is saying something that means absolutely nothing: If you listen to Sarah Palin she is an expert of just that. An Enigma. Take that and one of Morningstar themes about uneducated apostles making it ‘big’( Justification to and for Todd maybe – no disrespect intended) and the Palin cry of not politico’s in the White House and Sarah not being how shall I put it totally on the ball then overall we have : Its ok, uneducated, no problem Sarah, just look at the apostles and with a twinkle in her eye she’ll be smiling her way to the White House and Amercas suicide will begin. America does need to ‘wake up (as do we all) but not the ‘Oak Initiative way or the Boston Tea Party way thats war not peace.
and George:
There is still deep prejudice out there and on election day I think many of us knew that along with the the expectation of, came a bullet.
If you court controversy then don’t winge when you get it or try to smarm your way out of it either biblically or smugly it winds people up.
Maybe thats exactly what they want! A watered down message from a watered down Jesus that leaves us confused and
yet all the more determined.
There is naught so blind as those that cannot see. There are those that prefer to keep us that way.
My understanding (may not be accurate) of the situation so far is this:
It appears that these five ( ?) men were not the traditional “heresy hunters” as Ms. Sharpe originally described.
These appear to be men who were originally affiliated or at least linked to the Bentley/Joyner movement and had become disillusioned badly by this chain of events: 1. Lakeland’s implosion, 2. Bentley’s infidelity, and 3. the farcical “restoration process”.
If this is the case, then it appears that Bentley and Joyner may have been the creators of their own worst enemies.
The delicious irony of all this is Ante Pavkovic – of ALL people – calling Todd Bentley a liar.
His own back yard is not exactly clean of the very same garbage he condemns in others.
Maybe he should obey Paul’s words in Romans 2.
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Thanks to Operation Save America and Apostasy Watch for considering this of interest to their readers too. I hope that they think I have reported well.
I am a great admirer of the Alnors. I used Bill Alnor as a source in a story I wrote for the Report magazines once…
Ante Pavkovic is a well-known dishonest individual who is unable to properly discern Scripture and has been removed from various discussion sites due to his refusal to abide by agreed-upon rules (for example, after being suspended well over 4 dozen times, Pavkovic (a.k.a. – Synergism) was removed from the CARM discussion site and all his posts deleted. Rather than accept this, he snuck back on at least twice and was caught. Apparently Ante feels Scriptural guidelines for Godly behaviors don’t apply to him. Pavkovic is simply addicted to attention and is completely untrustworthy. Although I cannot prove it, I suspect he suffers from mental illness.
Just so others know, CARM is Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry (not the Cdn Assoc. of Railway Modellers:^)
Thanks Frank.
I’m inclined now, to think that the protestors were unfairly treated by Todd Bentley.
Flame wars in the comments, started by the protestors, will change my mind about them pretty quickly.
I feel that I am treating you fairly. Let’s stick to that. Don’t ask me to pick sides in your fights.
Please try, in your comments to stick tightly to the incident, as much as possible.
FWIW Bud Press wasn’t there that night, and didn’t particpate in the protest if people don’t catch my joke…
BD here.
Well no actually.
Opportunity has been given to address opinion.
Rick is my guest and has been more than reasonable and prudent in covering this event.
The video was put up a few days ago, Operation Save America was identified and acknowledged as the group protesting at Morningstar, giving readers under posts ample opportunity to follow what they chose to.
This is now my call.
I suggest personal fights be taken elsewhere.
Comments are closed.
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