By Rick Hiebert. All Rights Reserved. Used by Permission.
Todd Bentley may no doubt hope that when it comes to the Internet that his potential audience listens to a mighty wind and not a still small voice.
This morning The Elijah List sent out the text of Rick Joyner’s latest statement about the restoration of Todd Bentley. (You may remember that I reported on it last week, not just once, but twice.
Steve Shultz, an Oregon charismatic teacher and writer, has created the biggest charismatic e-list on the Internet, complete with bookstore and other initiatives. Shultz sometimes sends ads to his e-list, which I don’t object to. But I mention that in order to point out that Shultz may have been paid by Rick Joyner to spread the word to his subscribers, which are over 100,000 around the world.
(I don’t think this was an ad, though, as Shultz has appended his own comment to the statement, which I may comment on later…)
If you hoped to get the word out amongst charismatics, The Elijah List is one way to go, as it has a great deal of Internet reach. It is very loud.
But it is something soft in volume, which has trickled out to the Internet, that I want to broadcast myself.
John Paul Jackson is some ways would be a natural to associate with the folks at The Elijah List. A very charismatic teacher and writer, he has his own ministry. Wikipedia reminds us that Jackson was one of the infamous “Kansas City Prophets”, but I don’t have a lot of knowledge about how orthodox he may be today.
It would be my guess that Jackson should naturally tend to agree with people like Rick Joyner, but he has chosen, somewhat quietly, to publicly differ with Joyner on one issue–the restoration of Todd Bentley. Jackson’s opinion? It may be too quick and it may be misguided.
Sometime in the past few weeks, John Paul Jackson sent out a letter to his supporters. I am guessing thsi was perhaps sometime in January. The apparent full text of his letter has been quoted on a couple blogs now, but I will be reprinting the full text, as I saw it, as a comment for your information.
Jackson favours restoration of ministers, but he argues that when a minister falls that they need to go through five stages of restoration, each of which, if done properly, takes at least a year. (It’s been about a year and a half since the collapse of the Lakeland revival.) He writes that “….ministers in the restoration process should be given responsibility slowly, and we should observe how they handle it. Pride was the fall of Satan, and it is the basis for the fall of humankind. Premature promotion will wipe out the brokenness and contrition that invite God to come near and continue the healing.”
Jackson goes on to use what I think is sensible Biblical logic. It leads him to decide that Todd Bentley committed adultery.
He writes (I have added emphasis):
We, the Body of Christ, not only fail to distinguish between grace and righteousness, but between forgiveness and restoration. Forgiveness is given the instant there is sorrowful repentance, but restoration only comes with trust and trust is earned. Thus Paul could order the man who was sexually involved with his step mother to be thrown out of the church for the destruction of his flesh (1 Cor. 5) and then after deep sorrow was exhibited Paul ordered the man to be restored to the Body of Christ (2 Cor. 2). Sadly, today we would say Paul lacked grace, and call him legalistic and self-righteous.
So back to the issue of Todd Bentley. Jesus said this, “And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery†Matt. 19:9. The fact is this–Todd has committed adultery. He planned out and premeditated the divorce from Shonnah. He, immediately after Lakeland, went to Hawaii with Jessa, whom he later married. Subsequently, though Todd is from Canada, he went to Reno, Nevada to get as quick a divorce (six weeks residency) to marry Jessa. In Canada it takes over a year to get a divorce.
Divorce is wrong for anyone, it is even more grievous when it occurs in ministers and this is why their judgment is even stricter (James 3:1). I believe Scripture is clear about leadership and divorce therefore Todd Bentley should not be back in ministry for a long while. Further, that Todd did this while the Lakeland meetings were in process only underscores the deep need Todd has for healing on many levels. I do not believe this depth of healing can take place in a few weeks or months. Biblically speaking, Todd’s restoration should be stricter than someone who was not in that position or in ministry.
Wow. It’s probably the clearest such statement from anyone in Bentley and Joyner’s wing of the church.
Matt Sorger, a former Bentley intern, started writing prophetic words about personal integrity right after Lakeland, without mentioning Bentley’s name.
John Arnott’s TACF used to issue a magazine, Spread the Fire. As Lakeland was starting to unravel, Spread the Fire readers got a slightly stale-dated magazine praising Bentley and Lakeland. The next issue of the semi-monthly magazine dwelt on the need for integrity by ministers, without naming any names or citing any examples.
Patricia King, an old friend of Bentley’s, recorded a series of short videos talking about Bentley and the collapse of the Lakeland revival, trying to address it frankly, but lovingly in the context of when ministers fail. A couple of days after her last video went on the Internet, the entire series was pulled from her site and YouTube, with no explanation.
But, of all these, only Jackson is trying to bell the cat.
He adds that it is time for judgement to begin in the house of God.
I believe that his conclusion is telling as well:
While I trust this answers the questions many of you have asked concerning my view of Todd Bentley’s restoration; the sad truth is – this is not just about Todd Bentley, it is about the Church, the Body of Christ as a whole. Todd is merely a reflection of us. This does not excuse Todd, neither does Todd’s actions excuse the Church. We have not demanded righteousness from our leaders. I agree with the Apostle Peter, “For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God†1Pet. 4:17. It is time for the Body of Christ to once again be able to trust those who minister in the Word.
For that to occur, we must take courage and begin to speak up concerning issues such as this. We must lead righteously, love deeply, and give grace and mercy to those who are deeply repentant. We must confront those who scheme, do not want to repent, and in turn demand we follow their agenda. We must return to the word of God and apply it correctly. We must live what we preach once again. If we do not, the world will continue to mock the church and yawn when the prophets speak.
Jackson specializes in the Biblical gift of prophecy. As one of the charismatics who believe that the Biblical gift of prophecy is valid today, he spends much energy developing resources to teach other charismatics about this. But while he believes in the New Testament type of prophecy, I think he may have a bit of an Old Testament prophet in him here, speaking the truth when it may be inconvenient to some people.
I don’t endorse everything that Jackson writes or says, but I think he has some wisdom in this particular instance. Will it be heeded?
Todd Bentley has a choice…he can either listen to the chorus of The Elijah List and its friends, or it can heed still, small voices like Jackson’s.
I know which voice the Bible would suggest that he listen for.
The full text of the letter sent by John Paul Jackson to his friends who have asked what he thinks of the Todd Bentley restoration:
From John Paul Jackson:
To whom it may concern:
In September of last year, I wrote concerning Todd Bentley and the end of the Lakeland Revival. At the time, I was concerned that someone would try to restore Todd to ministry very quickly. I wrote, “In the coming months, I’m sure that someone will restore Todd and then hope he gets healed. That would be tragic and perhaps disastrous.†Almost every week for the last year, I have been asked what I think about Todd’s restoration. I have met with members of Fresh Fire’s Board of Directors and with Shonnah, Todd’s former wife. All of this has furthered my resolve to share what I believe about restoring any fallen minister. I have waited and prayed about what I am writing. I have sought counsel from trusted ministers and leaders and therefore I write the following to you my Partners.
It is vitally important that we learn from what happened in Lakeland. We should first ask, “Were the healings real?†Yes, there were real healings that happened; I personally know someone who was healed. Miracles actually did occur. At the same time, there were also many exaggerations of healings and of people being raised from the dead. We need to keep in mind that signs and wonders do not always mean a person is or isn’t endorsed by God. God alone judges the heart.
The Body of Christ must awake from a spiritual lethargy that has led to a gross lack of discernment. This lack of discernment has historically and recently resulted in the endorsement of many who later fell into sin. A day of judgment is coming, which Jesus warned of in Matthew 7:22-23:
“Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, “I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’â€
According to this passage, people can be healed; accurate prophetic words can be given, and demons can be cast out – by a leader who is lawless and/or morally bankrupt. How can this happen? When we lose moral absolutes, when marriage is treated more as a convenience than a covenant and when we think in terms of sin management, we begin to consider God’s grace as the quick fix for sin. As this happens, we allow ministers who commit adultery to return to the pulpit within weeks, months or even days, which proves we have lost more than just our direction; we have lost the very fabric of our Christian beliefs.
Grace cannot be confused with righteousness. Grace is receiving what we do not deserve; mercy is not receiving what we do deserve. Righteousness, on the other hand, includes what most of us would consider difficult matters, such as punishment, correction and judgment. It also includes what most of us would consider positive matters, such as the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5). Righteousness includes both sides of the coin: If you do this, you will receive these blessings, but if you do not do this, you will receive a severe correction. Righteousness and justice are the two foundations of God’s throne (Psalm 89:14), but grace is not.
As we confuse grace and righteousness, we come to believe that we can live errant lives without fear of God’s discipline. This leads to laziness and a general lack of the fear of God, because why should we fear a God who never punishes us? Yes, God is love, and yes, He loves us unconditionally, but some of us interpret these to mean we can live impure, unholy lifestyles, and God will overlook it! We think that we can knowingly embrace a certain sin, receive a hand slap and then be back in the ministry within months, at the longest. But the fear of God comes with knowing Him. The more time we spend with Him, the greater we know Him and His ways. An unavoidable consequence of living with God is a healthy fear of Him. Where is the fear of God in ministries and the Western Church today?
Obviously, I am not against restoration; I am against quick restoration. I believe that time is required. In my opinion, there are five phases fallen ministers must go through to successfully return to ministry. Each phase may take a year or longer. First, they must recognize their sin and repent with deep-felt sorrow. They must realize what they have done – not only to their spouses but also to God. This takes time because there are layers of realization that must be worked through.
Second, they must find the root cause of the sin and eradicate it. I have never counseled anyone who fell the first time he or she was tempted. What causes them to dwell on the temptation? The answer usually lies in several issues, not just one, and again, it takes time to find them. The more we leave undiscovered, the more likely we are to commit that sin again.
Third, there must be additional time for the wound to heal. Think of it this way: We can pull out the knife, but the pain is still there, and the deeper the wound, the longer it will take to heal. The patient must become stable, or he or she will likely fall and be injured again.
Fourth, the men and women need to be tested. If there has been moral sin, we should watch how they handle themselves around the other sex. What sex do they gravitate toward? Where do they look, and where do they go as they mingle with others? There are many telltale signs of where people are in the restoration process, but they take time to discover, and as the person heals, the number of signs or habits becomes less.
Fifth, ministers in the restoration process should be given responsibility slowly, and we should observe how they handle it. Pride was the fall of Satan, and it is the basis for the fall of humankind. Premature promotion will wipe out the brokenness and contrition that invite God to come near and continue the healing. In our drive to implement grace, we often seem to forget that Scripture says, “The LORD is near to those who have a broken heart, and saves such as have a contrite spirit†(Psalm 34:18). It also says, “The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit, a broken and a contrite heart – these, O God, You will not despise†(Psalm 51:17). This level of restoration can take as long as five years.
Brokenness and contrition are not to be avoided; they are to be embraced! We must hunger and thirst for righteousness again. If we do not volunteer for it, we will learn to do it in crisis.
We, the Body of Christ, not only fail to distinguish between grace and righteousness, but between forgiveness and restoration. Forgiveness is given the instant there is sorrowful repentance, but restoration only comes with trust and trust is earned. Thus Paul could order the man who was sexually involved with his step mother to be thrown out of the church for the destruction of his flesh (1 Cor. 5) and then after deep sorrow was exhibited Paul ordered the man to be restored to the Body of Christ (2 Cor. 2). Sadly, today we would say Paul lacked grace, and call him legalistic and self-righteous.
So back to the issue of Todd Bentley. Jesus said this, “And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery†Matt. 19:9. The fact is this Todd has committed adultery. He planned out and premeditated the divorce from Shonnah. He, immediately after Lakeland, went to Hawaii with Jessa, whom he later married. Subsequently, though Todd is from Canada, he went to Reno, Nevada to get as quick a divorce (six weeks residency) to marry Jessa. In Canada it takes over a year to get a divorce.
Divorce is wrong for anyone, it is even more grievous when it occurs in ministers and this is why their judgment is even stricter (James 3:1). I believe Scripture is clear about leadership and divorce therefore Todd Bentley should not be back in ministry for a long while. Further, that Todd did this while the Lakeland meetings were in process only underscores the deep need Todd has for healing on many levels. I do not believe this depth of healing can take place in a few weeks or months. Biblically speaking, Todd’s restoration should be stricter than someone who was not in that position or in ministry.
I trust this answers the questions many of you have asked concerning my view of Todd Bentley’s restoration. I agree with the Apostle Peter, “For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God†1Pet. 4:17.
While I trust this answers the questions many of you have asked concerning my view of Todd Bentley’s restoration; the sad truth is – this is not just about Todd Bentley, it is about the Church, the Body of Christ as a whole. Todd is merely a reflection of us. This does not excuse Todd, neither does Todd’s actions excuse the Church. We have not demanded righteousness from our leaders. I agree with the Apostle Peter, “For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God†1Pet. 4:17. It is time for the Body of Christ to once again be able to trust those who minister in the Word.
For that to occur, we must take courage and begin to speak up concerning issues such as this. We must lead righteously, love deeply, and give grace and mercy to those who are deeply repentant. We must confront those who scheme, do not want to repent, and in turn demand we follow their agenda. We must return to the word of God and apply it correctly. We must live what we preach once again. If we do not, the world will continue to mock the church and yawn when the prophets speak.
Blessings,
John Paul Jackson
Founder
John Paul Jackson Ministries
Streams Ministries International
(I added the full text not to uncritically endorse everything about Jackson or all of what he writes here. I am worried that posts might disappear and links fall, so I want to save the whole text online.)
And a special thanks from me to the blogger at the link who passed on the full text.
I appreciated the letter you posted from John Paul Jackson. It makes perfect sense. I never new about this letter. If the divorce came about like Mr. Jackson stated, why did Mr. Joyner allow this to happen?
I often wonder about Shonnah and the children. It appears she has gone through so much for a young woman. I pray her and the children do well, and are moving on in God’s will.
I saw Shonnah on TV during the Lakeland event, but something was always there, like she held back. Even with Mr. Bentley’s children, it was as if they were not close to there daddy. Just my observations.
Thanks for you informative reseach on this issure.
First, there is a big problem with what
John Paul Jackson (JPJ) writes.
A) The “Royal” “WE”.
“We, the Body of Christ, not only fail to distinguish between grace and righteousness, but between forgiveness and restoration.”
Uh, no. maybe people who follow JPJ do….
B) Deflecting the sin.
“this is not just about Todd Bentley, it is about the Church, the Body of Christ as a whole. Todd is merely a reflection of us.”
Yikes@! What a ludicrous statement!!!
Are you speaking about yourself, John Paul Jackson?
C) Blaming us
“For that to occur, we must take courage and begin to speak up concerning issues such as this.”
Uh, NO, many have been screaming, for years,
about the sins of Todd Bentley.
You, JPJ, and others, refused to listen.
D) What planet is John Paul Jackson on?
“We have not demanded righteousness from our leaders.”
Uh, NOOOO. We HAVE. Many churches do. But not you, JPJ.
Again, the sin is with you, John Paul Jackson.
And with your false prophet buddies in RA, NAR, ICA.
There are more examples of the lies and manipulation of
John Paul Jackson’s letter. 4 examples should suffice.
Second,
(and ps thank you for the full text and wisely copying
instead of a link. Agreed, it may soon disappear.)
John Paul Jackson is widely known as
“False”, “Unbiblical”, “Heretical”.
Quote from JPJ:
“In Sutton, New Hampshire, a portal exists on the 90-acres that were given to Streams Ministries. Obviously the enemy knows this, because he has been blocking the use of this portal and providing access only to the second Heaven.”
Quote from JPJ about their Israel trip:
“Not only will you be in a geographical open heaven portal
but also during a seasonal portal! Wow, a double portal.”
LOL. Wow. Who would fall for this New Age crap?
John Paul Jackson is not to be trusted in anything.
John Paul Jackson is unrepentant of his sins.
Therefor, JPJ’s letter, at best, is a mix of lies and poor advice.
I disagree with JPJ’s 5-year plan to restore Todd Bentley.
Todd Bentley should NEVER be allowed in Ministry ever again!
Todd Bentley has shamelessly sinned so many sins,
against so many,
without any guilt or repentance or restitution,
and all the while, leading ministry and Lakeland,
and now at Morningstar with Rick Joyner/Bill Johnson,
deceiving and defrauding everyone.
Todd Bentley should NEVER be allowed in Ministry ever again!
One, for the above reasons.
Two, for his own safety.
Someone out there, burned by Todd Bentley,
or some young boy, raped by Todd Bentley,
will surely put an end to Todd’s mockery of
Justice, Jesus, and the Holy Bible.
Run away Todd, run away.
You will NOT be remembered as a “Martyr for Christ”,
but as a sinner for Satan.
(And take JPJ. RJ, BJ with you!)
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Randy-How many other people do you want to send to Hell? Am I one of them?
Jackson isn’t my cup of tea, but he is one of the more level-headed of that “prophet” grouping; I’m not surprised that he’s belling the cat belatedly.
Why? He’s somewhat independent of the Joyner crowd, with his own ministry more focused on (in a flawed but earnest way) developing a prophetic ear; that’s a bit different than the near prophet-worship I see out of the Joyner circle.
Americas ‘Prophets’, so called, just love themselves and bare in mind that when a ship looks like its sinking then some ‘rats’ leave, some indeed with a smile on their face!.
They are so intermingled and interwoven and in and out of favour that I wold rather trust the cat.
Good that he says Todd is a less than good example when it comes to ‘what exactly’, turning the horror of the circumstances into something ‘really ‘cool’ and allowing it to be acceptable on and in those terms.
Divorce has a ‘righteous’ element over it when it comes to some christians but ‘try telling that to a woman being beaten up by her alcoholic husband or for that matter a man being betrayed by his wife. Todds flamboyant attittude makes a mockery out of just about everything and thats whats wrong.
To heal in such a shallow way tells me that he is.
As for the rest of the profits I have no time for them unless I see them whisked up into that glory cloud of honey right before my eyes with ‘wings on’.
LORD THEY MAKE ME ANGRY AND WIND ME UP.
‘I know thats why he came’., BUT SO DID I.
Hey Mark Byron
I don’t know you, or what beliefs you have.
But making me out to be a god who has the power to
send people to Hell, well, that’s a strange one.
“Am I one of them?” you ask.
For that I would quote the Bible.
John 9:40 (King James Version)
“And some of the Pharisees which were with him
heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?”
I tire of fools who fail to research people like John Paul Jackson,
or even read comprehensively what is written above.
Instead, out flows verbal diarrhea.
Go read several other websites on JPJ, like ETPW, SDG, etc.
Spend a few days. Then make an intelligent comment.
You state JPJ is:
“more focused on (in a flawed but earnest way) developing a prophetic ear.”
LOL. “flawed”, but “earnest”. LOL
That is the joke of the day.
You must be kidding?!
Todd Bentley too? “flawed”, but “earnest”
Get your guidance from one of the above sites.
I don’t know who you are or what on earth you believe,
and don’t wish to waste more time than to point you in
the right direction where others can help you.
(If you can receive the truth)
And please, for the record, I am not god. So keep searching.
John Paul Jackson is proven “Falseâ€, “Unbiblicalâ€, “Hereticalâ€.
Not, “flawed”, but “earnest”.
Yikes!
see: http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/fprophets.html
http://www.watchmanscry.com
endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/…/john-paul-jackson
http://www.intotruth.org/kcp/kcp-roots.html
http://www.patholliday.com
I don’t mind anyone being in ‘a recovery position’ or even listening to it but the pulpit is not the place of or for a recovery, theres to much at stake when it comes to leading others astray.
Church leaders are not a reflection of the church, it’s actually the other way around, unfortunately the churches become like their leaders ! And that’s why the word of God insists on purity of doctrine and character in leadership. “No student can be greater than his teacher”. Scary thought in so many cases today.
Also unbiblical, is the notion of prophets “developing a prophetic ear”. I know these ones like to attend “prophecy schools” to “learn” how to prophesy, it’s their way of feeling special and entertaining their flesh, while avoiding the cross. These schools are also a big money-maker. “As for you, you do not need anyone to teach you, as the anointing you received from Him remains on you….” I wish they would put even half so much time and energy into learning biblical truth…except so much of that can’t be taught either, until it is “bought” (without money).
I feel sick to my stomach when I see the word “promotion” used in reference to the church – I used to run with these “prophetic” circles and even back then in my ignorance I could see the spiritual social climbing and fleshly ambition at the forefront of so much that was going on, and my flesh was no different than theirs, subject to the same kind of temptation. But church leaders are supposed to be servants – they are to SERVE the body of Christ as servants. That word promotion has no place among the people of God. Apostles, prophets, teachers, evangelists, etc, are GIVEN by God to the body. And they are to be like eunuchs, that is, dead to self, flesh crucified. What we are seeing today is the literal opposite – the bride is being raped and taken advantage of. God have mercy – this is HIS bride! Our Saviour’s BODY! Is it any wonder He is vomiting out this lukewarm apostate church??
If you’re against JPJ, I understand, but if you read this not knowing JPJ wrote it, your assessment would be somewhat different. He raises some good points here, and it is good to at least hear something different coming out of “prophetic circles”.
He better watch out for a rebuke from Rick Joyner! Nothing gets Rick madder than when someone points out his error.
You speak well, David.
Agreed that Rick Joyner will be having a “fit”.
LOL
I see your point too. If someone had no knowledge of JPJ,
and superficially reads only certain sections,
then they could conceivably come up with an erroneous
point of view that jpj is ok. LOL
Of course, they would have to not know jpj is a member of NAR.
They would have to not know that jpj does conferences with
many other false prosperity flakes.
They would have to not know that jpj is into Portals and New Age.
And they would have to not read comment 5, outlining 4 glaring
lies in the letter. (And not picked up on the lies themselves)
In other words………
lol, I can’t bear to say it. LOL.
I pray people will read comprehensively, getting knowledge
on the subject, and having intelligent discussion.
Then we can all be edified and can speak to many other
people, informatively and accurately, on this subject matter.
Sounds like a plan to me.
The Devil can quote the Bible, but would you search his words
for something that sounds good? And then support him?
Likewise, if jpj is heretical…..
My opinion is that jpj wrote this letter not as a rebuke,
but as a cave-in to the inquires of his fans who fill his wallet.
Money, money, money.
Read people, read.
Thanks for your perspective David.
Looking at the behaviour of wolves, we see that when there is a perceived opportunity, eg, a sign of weakness, they will challenge the leaders and jostle for a higher position in the pecking order of their pack…
Wolf pack mentality, eh Therese. I think you have it.
The NARsies are like a wolf pack.
(Hope they have at it!)
Good analogy.
I liked your post 11 too.
Too many christians are being deceived by these wolves.
Makes me upset as well.
Wouldn’t be surprised if the Lord exposes the beast nature (flesh) of this bunch by allowing more and more in-fighting to surface. It might be that we should expect to see some fur fly soon, if we can bear to watch…
“These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.” Jude v. 19
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looks like the adulterer is going to get his ‘official ordination’ tomorrow. It is 7:20 PM EST and on Todd’s Twitter account
Anointing service Tonite 7 pm Sunday 11 00 am will be preaching at Mstar and receiving USA ordination. Watch live morningstartv.com
about 9 hours ago from Twitterrific
I am part of a leadership team who has been involved with many of these leaders we are naming as NAR. I need to say God has mercifully pulled us out of “a way” filled with error or mixture. Much of the uprooting happened painfully -at the cost of friendships and laying down many times our “job” – which happens to be pastoring and really what we love to do. We are thankful for every difficulty from the bottom of our hearts and had no idea how much of the Bible we defined by what we liked, who we listened to,our experiences and what we did not experience. We have lived for years “hope deferred” no matter who prophesied it would not change and frankly we lived that way because some of that we ate was poison. Todd Bentley helped us pull totally out because- as I began to get sucked in-by my own weaknesses-to Lakeland he said things that finally did it. We were done! I could have pulled others in with me but{thankfully ) Todd said some line about how pure a heart God told him he had-maybe the purest- and I knew this is NOT God saying this. We know many of the folks involved teaching and preaching out of this stream for many years-we have sent our kids, have gone to their schools and conferences..and though there were many personal solid, biblical God stories in the mix- there has indeed been a descent into doctrines that are Not Biblical. We know others as well who are close friends with many of these high profile prophets and you need to know the tide has changed. There are those who are warning and fighting for a genuine repentance and return to doctrine based on the Bible..there are many who are wrestling with verses these others are manipulating to serve their own purposes..there are some who at great expense have and are pulling away from these “Nar” leaders at the cost of friendships and other things- but they are not doing these things in a high profile way. Some are fighting directly with these folks to stop their descent. Please pray for all these ones who have a voice in these matters.. Cindy Jacobs and others prophesied about reformation-some wrote books recently on the new reformation and the ironic thing is it is happening-just not the way they are defining it. That is what I am seeing There are prophecies that are accurate-they have just been defined to benefit the stream the prophet is in. We must all watch for that danger in ourselves but the tide has changed and God is redirecting many out of these extreme seductive doctrines. We all need to watch our doctrine closely especially if we have been believers for a number of years and if people are following us. WE HAVE TO. Please know,from someone who ate their food-prayed with them-sat with them-read their books-agreed with them- that God can deliver from error. Though they may never agree that God can bring them pain He may do just that- to deliver them out of every lie they believe and preach. The very same reason Jesus turned the tables over in the temple is exactly what may be happening but also what He may yet do. This has been a process of years for us and I love Jesus now more than I ever have and I have walked through some of my worst nightmares-it involved just that amount of pain, testing and much repenting and we love the church! That is our call and our job and we love the church and Sunday morning service- yeah even.We have not arrived but this part of the journey is fun . Honestly when we began to admit that much of this stream was “off” and pulled out we felt sooooo much lighter-like layers had been pulled away from our eyes and our souls and to be truthful we thought this stream was pretty amazing. We are still “charismatic” but different than we were…confessions from a former “NAR” follower..please pray for the body to wake up!!
They had their moment of ‘triumph’ s77 now its the Lords turn.
MJB an s77, Wow! Thanks!
Could both of you follow up with some details?
s77, where/when did Bentley say “purest heart”?
MJB, prayers to you Bro. God Bless.
Could others you know leave a testimony here too?
God bless both of you for standing for Truth!
note: I am not ‘of’ this website, so maybe give
more delicate details to Bene, in his ‘contact’ box.
I am sure we all would be edified, to know more.
God Bless,
Randy
sorry, typo
MJB for “purest heart” quote of TB
s77, can you give details of TB ‘ordination’?
Thanks!
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How about just supporting somebody for the things they say that are biblically correct, even if they may be wrong in certain areas of their ministry? Are we looking for perfect leaders and ministries, or are we looking to our Lord and Saviour who is the only source of sound spiritual groth?
JPJ is not a perfect human being, but neither do I see that he is unbiblical, at least not when it comes to what he says about divorce and remarriage.
God HATES divorce, he always has and he always will. Let that be crystal clear. Anyone who says anything else, is saying the opposite of what God says. Whoever they are. This is not about supporting this leader or that prophet or any ministry, it is about going for the truth, allowing God´s light to shine in the darkness and adjusting to HIS standards.
When it comes to prophecies, I follow Paul. Read 1. Cor. 14.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMg4ssxrn-4
Some of you people need to watch the above You Tube video featuring John Paul Jackson, as well as take a look at his blog streamsministries.com
Do you really want to be listening to someone’s second hand interpretations? You’ve got your own brain, so draw your own conclusions.
There’s really little need to listen to people like JPJ, especially dealing with the future. The Scriptures tell us all we need to know about coming events. Those same Scriptures also tell us there will be prophecies in the last days. Prophecy isn’t always predicting the future; it can be as simple as a warning or rebuke to a fellow believer. In the end, it’s up to each of us to be ‘wise as serpents and innocent as doves’ regarding these kinds of things. Jesus warned us there would be wolves in sheeps clothing infiltrating the flock.
Lets just think about when Jesus protected the woman from being stoned. Who is Jackson and who is Joyner in this story? Who would you rather be – the one that models our Lord and Saviour or the mob?
Joyner has a team that has been with him for years – jackson doesn’t have anyone with him that has been around for more than a year other than a few female secretaries.
Something to think about.
Colin,
Read 1 Corinthians 5:1-5 and tell me who is acting more Biblically.
Thanks
If God were to give you a yardstick to measure your success with Him, how would you measure up? Think about it. If we were able to use it and measure our faithfulness, obedience, rightousness and walk with our Lord Jesus, how do you think you would measure up? Now, keep in mind, that success in God is faithfully doing his will and work.
Okay. The world looks at success when we have money, a great job, lots of friends, and so on. However, success in God, well, it’s not measured that way. Sometimes a christian may have to say something that truly points out the judgment of God, according to His word. That means to faithfully confront the sin in the church. Then, of course, that can create a climate of difficulty for the one taking a stand for God’s word. It’s difficult enough to point our the truth at times, and can be just as hard to swollow it.
No mob here. I think there are a lot of weeping christians over this confusion.
We can’t look into the heart of another man. I do appreciate the commit in #26. It’s getting back to the fundamental principle in the body of Christ.
Regarding 1 Cor 5:1-5. It’s too bad no one seems to have the power to follow through with the judgment anymore – the handing over to Satan part so that the flesh can be destroyed and soul, saved in restoration.
If you study the commentaries, handing someone over to Satan didn’t mean excommunicating them. It meant literally allowing Satan to ravage their bodies with horrible affliction, sometimes until death. In the early church it was a means of humbling the transgressor and turning him from the error of his ways or at least bring him to a state of humble contrition. Note – only an apostle could do this. A true apostle, that is.
Just as the apostles were endowed with extraordinary gifts to deliver one from the power of satan (and other miracles), they were also able to do the very opposite – inflict the supernatural afflictions of the devil on believers. (Acts 13:11, 1 Tim 1:20) Too bad the church doesn’t have such power today…. does that mean there are no more true apostles? (Or ever were?)
I think this gifting should have been saved for these latter days. It would have been more useful today to keep people in line, than 2000 years ago when you consider what’s going on in the church now! Ananias and Sapphira would be model saints today!
our focus should be on all the sheep that have been injured and led astray. Pray that the bad seed will be uprooted and not bear bad fruit. Pray that the sheep that were injured and deeply hurt will not look at mans weakness, not judge God by mans sins, but fall toward the cross and find true shepards.
As I reflected this past week the years gone by in which the KC prophet’s have made decision after decision that caused such wide spread harm to the body of Christ my heart is somberly sad.
A quiet prophetic house wife I spent years in intercession at the feet of the Lord asking what was on his heart and for the wisdom courage and instruction needed to aid the Holy Spirit in the matters important to him, Years of miracles, healing and lives saved in which I am so grateful to have been apart of were the result of that intercession. There came a time when I could discern the attacks set forth by cult witches in the Grand view building, I asked God what to do and did as he said, Taking the authority over the witches commanding them to sit forbidding them to operate binding them and releasing a blessing as well as breaking the assignments of the evil sent on the people who were unaware.
I saw first hand what immediate physical response the people had to the demonic assaults, the witches were having a party so to speak, that is until God opened the vision of this housewife who’s love for hurting people was more powerful than her fear’s. For several years my intercession grew with grate compassion for the congregation and the lost and dieing world, I often spent many services on the floor on my face in the front row, as my husband was one of the metro vineyards drummers.
I had to hear God, tune in to Him and settle and center my heart. There was so much happening in the room, most seem to be unaware of.
I will not go in to details of my experiences as a watch person on the wall but I will unfold my reason to share. I a mere home maker prayed years from 10pm – 2am, I prayed when ever I was given a name by the Holy Spirit or shown a face. I simply was available to aide the Holy Spirit in spiritual warfare. I did this fairly quietly with only a few key leaders knowing, The church was rapidly growing and changing and as the popularity of Grace training school and the prophets grew the church body had influx that was polluted because of international relationship much sin was not addressed and the body suffered, I suffered. I came to know what it was to grieve what felt unbearable as I knew what consequences would befall the congregation I loved. The leadership chose the many over the truth and the biblical principals of scripture when it comes to confronting sin.
I was left with out the protection I should have had as one submitted to the leadership, My life has gone through attacks unspeakable, yet my God is faithful! I lived and did not die as God’s word promised, I am gaining back my life and climbing back on the wall as a watch man during this season.
Please hear my heart and heed the call for intercession, I have seen what has been unleashed and what the consequences can be for leaders such as Bently and the others. All across the board whether you sit in the pew or are standing on the stage with a mic the adversary wants to destroy you any way he can.
I a house wife know I have the power to change the dynamic of the enemies strategical attempts. The question is will I take Gods word and do it? And will I be properly submitted and covered this time as I take my place. It is my heart!
If we all humble our selves and seek God we can intercede for each other and many men of God would quite possible avoid the pit falls of adultery and sin in general.
Accountability for Bently should have occurred long ago, if these men are quickly held to account and put in a position in which they do not minister for a time they can close the openings in their armor and get their souls errors corrected. I am ever so grateful for the integrity John Paul Jackson has shown in this matter, I hope we can all pray for integrity in obedience to Christ and the word of God for those who lead and we the sheep who follow. Any of us can have a bulls-eye placed on our head, heart and back by the enemy, we all must take heed lest we fall.
The consequences for Bently are serious he will not escape the aftermath of his choices sin is enjoyable for a season then we endure the aftermath of our choice.
I pray it will not destroy Bently may Gods blessing of mercy bring him to true repentance and our leadership stand united to ask him to step down and apologize to the world who looked to him for guidance or instruction. We need to go back to the biblical guidelines in which there is no quick fix for this type of sin or tolerance if there is failure to manifest a true repentance for it.
I find both stunning, that the sheep have knowledge of the sin key leaders have been in or are in yet leadership boards either turn their heads or have been blinded by familiarity and relationship, it is as was told.
EVEN THE VERY ELECT WILL BE DECEIVED, We must pray for them!
Colin Jackson said:
“Lets just think about when Jesus protected the woman from being stoned. Who is Jackson and who is Joyner in this story? Who would you rather be – the one that models our Lord and Saviour or the mob?”
Would that happen to be the same Jesus that said:
“And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except [it be] for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.” – Matthew 19:9
“Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from [her] husband committeth adultery.”
-Luke 16:18
Your unspoken but implied characterization of anyone who tries to use the Word of God to bring correction on a topic like this one as “the mob” speaks volumes. Nobody here is calling for Bentley to be stoned, something you fail to note.
But then I guess I’m just too old-fashioned to accept the ‘anything goes’ approach so passionately embraced by the ‘the only thing that matters is experiences and feelings’ crowd.
The other thing to keep in mind is that restoring Bentley to spiritual health is different than restoring him to ministry. I don’t think anyone here does not want to see Bentley healed in his own soul. Being but back into ministry could only hinder this.
Verses are being used out of context to justify “restoring” him to ministry. While this is very painful to see, in some ways it exposes the arrogance of Joyner, Bill Johnson and others in their inner circle. I know to many that have quit using God given discernment because they have stepped over into idolatry concerning the authority they believe these leaders have. This in spite of totally exposing themselves “commissioning” Bentley on “God TV”.
Sadly I have lost to many friendships and have seen to many churches split because of the “prophetic movement”.
Pray, pray, pray before you post anything. Listen and pray that u do not fall into temptation
Restore his soul? Well that would mean that Todd was saved. Todd and his “Knight of Malta” friend Rick Joyner were never saved, they are in fact wolves in sheep’s clothing. Lots of evidence on the the Internet to prove that. I don’t feel like arguing with any one who would come to their defense, so before you do, read up on the matter and don’t plead ignorance to the knowledge that is available on these infiltrators. Please be suspicious of anyone in ministry-like pastor John Arnott- who sanctioned Todd and praised him to high heaven. Patricia King is in the mix also, as was Steven Strang publisher of Charisma magazine.