In my attempts to make a long-winded point, you seem to have misconstrued my message.
So just for the record, let me clear the air:

- I am not hurt or bitter about my experience in “the church”. Please stop telling me that I am. As a matter of fact I am kind of grateful for it. The experience got me to a point of greater freedom and contentedness in what I believe and in who I am than ever before. (You know, like someone once said ‘joy joy joy!’. Angry, yes. We should all be angry. Who wouldn’t be angry with what’s going on so freely and recklessly in the name of Jesus?! And I’m pretty sure that my anger will not be subdued as long as the criminals and deviants of this religion go about their business unscathed by the law. C’mon church! Wake up! The world should not be the one having to clean your house and air out your dirty laundry! Shame on you!

- I am not searching for anything. My life is complete. I am on my feet more firmly than ever. If I die tomorrow, I will die content in the knowledge that I did the best with what I had and know in this life.

- Don’t try to reconvert me. It will only happen when hell freezes over, but hell would have to exist first. I am not looking for “god” to show up because I have concluded that he does not exist. Your prayers are an exercise in futility. Not that I do not have an open mind to the minutest possibility (itsy bitsy teeny weeny) that there is a god, a creator, super-being out there somewhere. Fact is, I spent too many years being close-minded IN my beliefs. I have learned to never say never.

- I am not trying to deconvert anyone. I have discovered that if you have not searched out a matter for yourself and just take someones word for it, it will never really become true to you. If someone can convince you of something, then the next guy can come along and convince you of something else. A good teacher will never give you the answer anyway. They will just help to give you direction in finding it, but the work is up to you. Besides, I am having way too much fun on Bene’s blog conversing with all you believers! (Thanks, Bene and sorry at the same time.)

- What most of you reading this blog don’t seem to understand is that I have been where you are. I WAS YOU! I have been on the mountaintops and the valleys in my walk with “him”. I’ve experienced it all and willingly put my Isaac on the alter to die. I have burned my oxen and cart so that I would have nothing to go to and no one to follow but “him” (If you’ve seen the video mentioned earlier you’ll know what I am talking about.) I had been so steeped in my belief system that every bit of information that I came across or every unusual incident I encountered or heard of, was filtered through my belief system. My brain, heart, or whatever, only processed information in a way that supported what I believed. That’s what happens in religion – you have a sort of handicap when it comes to thinking critically, objectively. So, for example, when something happened to us, good or bad, it was always for a reason – god was teaching us something or working somehow in our lives. We perceived everything in our lives through our “Jesus lenses”. When our experience conflicted with our belief system (the bible), rather than going with our gut feeling that something didn’t line up, our resolve was to use the excuse all Christians use, in that we only see in part and that we see through a glass dimly.

- You guys don’t know what it’s like to be where I am now. You can only feel sorry for me, that I have wandered away from the fold aimlessly. You don’t know what it’s like coming to this place all on your own, after hard wrestling and heart wrenching work. After trying to work out YOUR OWN salvation with fear and trembling, chopping your way into the jungle where few dare go. I can tell you it is most satisfying to discover a new thing on your own, alone. Tim and I arrived at the same place with the same conclusion each on our own, without discussing what either was thinking and discovering. I didn’t dare say too much for fear that my husband would be repulsed by what I was discovering, and unbeknownst to me, later on found out we were both on the same page the whole time. Go figure.

- How was I able to get out of it’s grip when it’s all you eat, think, sleep and breath? Actually I have the bible to thank for that. The fact that god failed to hold up his end of the deal drove that final stake in but good. As I meticulously combed through the bible and history, slowly the filters began to be removed from my life-long indoctrinated brain. Slowly day by day, the illusion faded and the light of truth and reality came flooding in. Yes it was sad at first to let go of that thing that once encompassed your whole being, but after a time there was more freedom and a sense of finally “getting it” more than all my years of Christian ramblings.

Here’s the point – Don’t knock it ’till you’ve tried it. I’ve tried Christianity for most of my life. Need I say more?

Two things Sean … I never said “There were mountains of evidence”. Follow the flow of conversation. Read back over the posts. These were YOUR words. Don’t label me with your unfounded statements, when I was quoting you.

Secondly: You have taken the option of not supporting your statements when respectfully challenged to do so. I can understand your hesitation. It is frightening when holy ground turns to mist.

Yes it’s true, that any Messiah who turned the other cheek was not a military leader. So, this was not the kind of Messiah the world would except. Jesus’ desire was about mercy and justice, and much more. His kingdom is not of this world.

To sell everything and give it to the poor, that’s a tall order. In other words, don’t let your money or possessions keep you from following Jesus. You see, sometimes our reactions can show our true attitude towards money.

For me God’s word is sufficient. I find an appreciation in the inspirations I see in The Bible. I choose faith.

I know what you mean about governments and keeping a close eye on the powers that be… For what it’s worth I did not get the H1N1 flu shot!

HATE SHALL HAVE NO JUSTIFICATION ‘a price has been paid’.

Trust me, if there was a way that I could have held on to my faith in Jesus in a way that would have been honest to myself, I would have. Leaving the comfort zone of believing that god was in control of this crazy world where so much stuff doesn’t make sense wouldn’t have been my choice. Do you think it is easy after investing your whole life in a belief system and circle of friends and family who believe likewise, to just give it all up? Knowing that you will be either hated or ignored by people who once considered you a close friend and confidante? Do you not think that the path of least resistance was far more desirable and appealing to every natural, instinct of survival and preservation within me? You bet it was! But to thine own self be true became true for me.

As a Christian, I lived as a hypocrite. I would say most do since they do not fully live out their faith according to their manual, the bible. I live in a city with a population of 6000 which is predominantly Christian. To “fit in” and have any kind of social life you must have some degree of faith and belief that god/Jesus exists, BUT! don’t take your belief too seriously. Otherwise you will either be labeled a religious fanatic Jesus freak or a heathen/enemy of the cross. Most fit somewhere in the middle. Initially I fell into the first category, and as it stands now, the second. There is no middle ground for me when it comes to the important issue of “god”. So I have been hated by Christians when I was a Christian and now hated still by Christians now that I am not one.

It sounds to me like you have made your Jesus and your god to be your personal security blanket who asks nothing of you.

Though you may have left the churches, you have not left the system. It still has a grip on you, which prevents you from thinking critically and honestly about what you believe and why you believe it. Though you are not in the churches, the original inventors of the Christ religion are still succeeding in their plan to suppress free thought and subdue opposition as you merrily go on your way and quietly live out your life as a good, god-fearing member of the family. The plan of “Christianity” has always been to quash any uprisings and prevent any revolts. That’s what happens when religion becomes an initiative of the State.

This world is never going to change if people like you sit around and wait on the Lord. Governments love this stuff because people believe they do not have anything to do here but wait. They leave everything in the “Lord’s hands”and and shirk their responsibilities as members of society who should be trying to make the world a better place on so many levels.

Christians may do their little do-good ditty, like giving money and aid to the poor, which is wonderful. Many will stand up and speak against what they and their religion say is legalized immorality, such as abortion and gay marriage (the directives of which, btw, are not found in their bible of truths for Christian living). But they fail the test when it comes to things like challenging the status quo of our country. Things like “who is making the decisions in our nation, the government or corporate America?”. Why are we going to fight a war that is not ours? What about global warming? Was H1N1 really such a threat? What are they putting in our water?

No I am not an alarmist, nor a conspiracy theorist. I simply want people in this country to think seriously about so many things and don’t be complacent or satisfied with what big brother says. Investigate! Find it out for yourselves! Separate illusion from reality. It can be done and if more people got their heads out of their bibles and started thinking for themselves and digging deeper for the answers, perhaps governments, corporations and institutions would begin to change for the better. Perhaps justice and truth would prevail in the land.

Christianity and corporate conglomeration fit like a glove. A true Christian doesn’t pose a threat to the motives and agendas of those who rule the world and the people, because if you read your bible, Christians are not admonished to challenge worldly systems but to obey in complete submission. The follower of Jesus is to obey the government and rulers. So professing Christians who try to impose their own moral convictions on worldly institutions are not really “True Christians” at all. Christian lobbyists, who voice their religious opposition to certain legislation, for example, are being untrue to the god and the gospel of their profession. Christians who try to sway governmental decisions in their favour, are exhibiting lawlessness in the kingdom of god. Why? Jesus only exposed and rallied the religious system and leaders of his day. Because he only scorned their hypocrisy and self serving behaviour which was cloaked in religion. He did not try to change the “world” and worldly systems. So Christians who do this are being lawless in their faith and antithetical to the pattern Jesus set for his followers.

So the powers that be don’t want any of that to happen. They want people to follow their bibles and be “True Christians”. They want people like you Therese, to be caught up in your own personal god, to be content that all things happen for a reason, because God is in control of everything. True Christians like you, are passively waiting for Jesus to come and believe that when he does, everything will be as it should. Truly evil does prevail because good men do nothing.

I’m assuming you were lead out of churches because you got burned. And that’s partially why we did initially. We didn’t get burned until we started challenging the leaders and asking the tough questions. Not to mention their false and extra biblical doctrines they used to lord over the people. No one likes a skeptic. But when we left we only discovered that there were more doctrines and practices of Christians, churches and ministries that could not be substantiated by the bible. Then we began to examine the bible itself more closely and with a more critical eye. And wa-la! We found it was full of holes and no more “holy” than a Harlequin Romance.

Again, the answers you provided are nothing I haven’t heard before. They smack of complacency, lack depth and forgive me if I offend you, but uselessness in the here and now. Not that I am a fan of Carl Marx, but he got it right by saying that religion is the opiate of the masses. It keeps the masses focused on getting their fix rather than fixing the problems. Religion discourages us from re-thinking what we have been taught from small. It’s like putting on blinders that hinder our vision. We can only see and therefore only think one way. I have observed this throughout my walk as a Christian and from reading the comments on this blog.

Think I’ll say this much about the word of God though, we have become His children and He has become our Father, not some unreasonable tyrant, and though the word upholds and shows us His perfection and holiness without compromise, His grace is there for us wherever we fall short, as long as we are in Christ and sincerely seeking righteousness.

We wouldn’t expect a newborn baby to put on a suit and go off to work at the office the day after he is born, would we? We wouldn’t harangue the poor little one about paying his taxes and obeying the traffic laws while we tuck him behind the wheel of the car either, even though those things are true and written in the laws of the land. Likewise there are things in the word of God that don’t apply to us yet because we are not ready for them until we grow into them. Our watchful and attentive Father knows what we are ready for and when, so we are led by Him not by the letter of the law.

Normally when confronted I usually let ‘the steam run out of the conversation before responding’, Safer that way, that time I guess he showed me why;

i don’t like to call people evil it damns them, but some do seem to come from a ‘DARK PLACE’ of abiding thats for sure.

Regarding the evidence, I said there were mountains of it. You’ve admitted that that’s true. However you have swepted it all away with a simple declaration that (in your opinion) it’s all false. Really, ALL? Have you looked at it ALL? Your simple reliance on such a declaration seems pretty lazy. I really don’t have time to argue this in depth through comments on a blog. Call it lazy if you want, but my life is full of God-given responsibilities and sitting here pounding out comments is low priority.

I know the origins of the Bible as you’ve described. However, nothing that any of you has presented has proven anything.

Yes, in my job I question the sources. Now I am questioning all of you as a source and I’m questioning the sources that you present. I really have not heard any original thoughts from any of you except repetition of atheist propaganda. There is absolutely no information that I’ve seen in your comments that hasn’t been presented before. And you’re calling me lazy. “A mind is a terrible thing to waste”? Indeed. I’ve looked at these arguments probably to a greater depth than any of you (both sides) and now I am where I am. If you look at these things honestly, you will find that there is no proof of anything, just opinions. What you have done is spent more time being swayed by one set of opinions.

Regarding many of your specific points, you seriously need lessons in reading comprehension. Regarding the teaching of cutting off body parts to avoid sinning, Jesus often used hyperbole in his teaching. How about I translate it for you: Jesus was saying to take sin very seriously. That’s it and the rest are metaphors.

Finally, regarding the quest for ultimate truth. I will give you a little more truth that you have not seemed to grasp. The truth that you know and the amount of truth that anyone (everyone) will ever know in this lifetime is limited and it will always be so. The verse in Timothy was never meant to be taken to the extreme that you’ve gone. From the Christian perspective, our purpose in life is expressed in a nutshell by Ephesians 2:10. We take the amount of truth that we know, recognize that it is limited, and carry out the responsibilities (the good works) that God has given us.