By Rick Hiebert Used By permission. All Rights Reserved.
If you were wondering as you read the headline–I’m not quoting myself. Rather I am quoting a blogger who writes that he used to be on staff at Todd Bentley’s old church.
According to Todd Bentley’s Twitter feed today, things are going well with him. The days of allegedly “local ministry” are now over:
He who wins souls is wise!!! Dreaming of the Harvest. Crusade plans in the works? Africa, Haiti and return to India.
about 10 hours ago via Twitterrific
IamToddBentley
Todd Bentley
Not going anyplace where they heard of the sad end of the Lakeland revival? Exactly so.
With his purported deal with Discovery, things would seem to be going well for Bentley. Not as such for two people who shared their concerns on the Internet.
But then, Todd Bentley has never been one for good pastoral care, as a blogger and a Tweeter notes.
If the anoymous blogger is who he says he is, his blog might be explosive. Such as apparent confirmation that Todd Bentley had an extramarital affair long before Lakeland. But I’ll be quoting from him at length on the continuation of this post.
The blog, “Lost My Faith In You” is only a few months old. I will be concentrating on the post “My Story” from a few days ago.
The author calls himself “TheDon”, writes that he has a wife and 5 kids and is almost 33, if not presently that age.
Do we know that what he writes is true? Not absolutely, but what he writes makes a great deal of sense, and tallies with what I have heard behind the scenes. So, for the purpose of this post, I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt. (I will be quoting a bit from what he writes, in case the blog disappears.)
What may make TheDon a critical witness is that for many years he worked at various tasks on the staff of Todd Bentley and his starter family’s church in Abbotsford B.C., Global Harvest Centre. His blog has a “behind the scenes” feel.
TheDon writes that he grew up in a Pentecostal, charismatic church. He appears to have lived most of his life in British Columbia. While courting his now-wife, he lived for a couple years in Burns Lake B.C.. Around that time, he sat “under the teaching of Patricia King, then Pat Cocking” He was gradually becoming affacted by the more extreme parts of the charismatic movement.
He then moved to Abbotsford B.C. roughly around 2003, and started to attend Global Harvest Centre. TheDon writes that after the birth of one of his sons, who was sickly at birth. (I’ll be adding my own emphasis as I quote from his blog):
Over the next couple of months, I took my parental leave from the mill that I worked at. I sat under Todd Bentley’s teaching; soaking and waiting on God, hoping for an encounter. I never had one, but I ended up working for the church, steeping in as a new graphic designer. The church had recently undergone a new name change, as well as a new vision, under the authority of Todd. They needed someone to put a new face on the church. Over the next several years, I came to see some things about church that I never knew before. Politics and meetings. I have never been to so many meetings. The leaders were always in meetings. I was shafted on several occasions because they had meetings to attend. The business of church made them too busy for me. I understood that they had duties to attend too, but it seemed like if you weren’t in the inner circle then you didn’t matter.
It’s interesting that Todd was apparently the “900 pound gorilla” of the church. There’s some evidence that he was, because apparently, as far as I know, he was not disfellowshipped by Global Harvest Centre when the following happened…
Todd Bentley’s first extramarital affair?
There has been much talk that Todd Bentley’s celebrated “dark night of the soul” in 2005 and 2006 was due to an extramarital affair. Bentley, instead of burning out, had pulled himself off the road to save his marriage to Shonnah Bentley. I have even heard a partial name of the alleged lady, which I chose not to report until I have more confirmation.
When the mention of Bentley dumping Shonnah Bentley for his former intern and nanny–the present Jessa Bentley–came out, there was talk by charismatic figures such as John Arnott, Robert Ricciardelli and C. Peter Wagner that Bentley had had grave marital problems before.
C.Peter Wagner, as quoted in the summer of 2008, was the most forthcoming. He wrote at the time:
….Their marriage has been torn for years by his emotional attachment with at least one other female whose physical contact went beyond hugging and kissing and holding hands. Enough said-maybe more details will be revealed later-but it was clearly immoral. All of this was skillfully concealed by lying and by swearing close associates who had observed his behavior to secrecy. Stephen Strader, for example, knew nothing of this before June 23. Apparently some of his board members did, but they did not have the ability to deal with it….
In this context, TheDon’s comments indicate that the leadership at Todd Bentley’s old church, Global Harvest Centre, knew that something was up, at least:
….About a years and a half into my term there, Todd Bentley had a crash in England. The story was that he suffered a breakdown and didn’t want to continue on with what he was doing anymore. The leaders stated that he was going to take a break and get re-focused. The word behind the closed doors was that he wanted to have an affair with someone on his staff and that person was paid off to be quiet about it. But I won’t speculate about it.
I would say, based on the fact that Bentley pulled himself off the raod for nearly two years, that where there was smoke there was fire. If TheDon, however, heard such talk throughout Global Harvest Centre, we can expect that this is not something cooked up by Todd Bentley’s critics. Whatever did happened before 2006 between Todd Bentley and the lady was quite real.
The run up to Lakeland and after
TheDon’s spritual “Spidey-sense” continued to operate, as he began to notice that Bentley’s calls for offerings were at least a half hour. “And of course, the money came rolling in.”
He continues:
Then came Lakeland.
This was huge. Lakeland is a city in Florida and the location for what was going to be the greatest revival that ever happened. The stories that were coming out of Florida were crazy. Our church was getting a lot of attention. The leaders were taking shifts running down to Florida. People were flocking to it like crazy. Honestly, I didn’t know what to believe. I never went down because I’m the kind of person that steers clear from the popular things. Besides, we have five children and too many commitments to run off. But all this seemed to be simply amazing.
TheDon, who apparently knows Shonnah Bentley, has some biting words about how Lakeland gravely wounded Global Harvest Centre, Bentley’s home church:
Then came post-Lakeland.
When I found out that Todd had fallen into “sin” or “adultery” I was shocked. How could this happen? I knew his wife. She is one of the most kindest, gentlest people. I remember cooking a dinner for her because she was feeling really sick and they needed help after this whole debacle. But then something began to tug at me on the inside. If this man had begun a relationship with another woman, how was it that the other leaders, my pastors didn’t see it? They were with him all the time. Then something dawned on me after seeing a photo of Todd at a certain event outside of Lakeland. The day thye made the announcement of Todd’s fall, they said that a week previous or something like that, they had found out. But between that time and the time of their announcement, Todd had gone to speak at another engagement. And in the photo of that engagement, I saw one the the pastors. This man, Ken Greter, whom I knew since I was a child, from the church where I gave my life to the Lord, who I thought was a “righteous” man, let this cheating, lying Todd continue to practice his preaching even though they knew his predicament. I was completely baffled. And as time moved on, the leaders just continued to hush things up and sweep them under the carpet.
Of course, Todd came crashing down. The church began to fall apart. I lost my job, along with others and pretty much entered into financial ruin because of decisions that we made just prior to Todd’s crash. The crazy thing is, the leaders actually let us make these decisions knowing what was happening. I was a staff member, for pete’s sake. Simply stunning.
Of course, we no longer go to that church. And since then, I have found out more garbage about these leaders, including the possibility that Todd fabricated the whole Lakeland revival for monetary gain. But now he seems like he’s back in business down in North Carolina or something. And I’ve found many other stories where Todd and these leaders have destroyed many other lives. It’s staggering. I did come to one conclusion: I think they were always blinded by the money. Each one of those leaders were bringing in at least six figures. I guess the allure of cash has hands on even those you would least suspect.
The aftereffect of Lakeland in TheDon’s own life make sad reading. He writes: “These men preached the Bible and justified their actions by the Bible. Which makes me wonder: How truthful is the Bible? I know man wrote it, supposedly inspired by God. But ‘thanks’ to you guys and others like you, I am questioning my entire 33 years of faith.”
Then TheDon started to watch videos by various debunkers of Christianity and read books. His wife, who continues to bring him to a new church, fears that he might be becoming an atheist. And, he admits, she may be right.
“….It’s just that every time someone mentions God or Jesus I get a weird feeling in my head; knowing that I can’t trust that answer,” he writes, adding in another post, “Am I secretly becoming an atheist??
I am sure that you will join me in hoping and praying that God will reach out to him through his Spirit and Christ-filled Christians.
But, I must ruefully add that if I were hurt badly by–lets be frank–contemptable excuses for “followers of Christ”–I would be wondering too.
And not all of this can be laid at Bentley’s feet. The current leadership at the renamed “Transform International” church in Abbotsford has praying and repenting to do too. If Bentley refuses to come back and make amends, his infamies will be laid at their doorstep too.
I know that Christ wants to give answers to TheDon’s questions. Let’s hope TheDon finds them.
Sadly, Todd Bentley’s ability to detroy things extend to churches as well. Will we ever see, on his proposed reality show, scenes of him returning to Abbotsford to do what he can to fix what went wrong there? If Todd truly had a repentant heart, the answer would be “Yes.” But you can guess what I am thinking.
I had nothing to do with this, but I am sad about what happened to TheDon and other innocents who were caught up in all this.
Is Todd Bentley sad about what happened to his old church?
Well, his pastoral manner may need repair.
I want to draw attention to this too, back from about a week ago on Todd’s Twitter feed:
Please read from the bottom up. Here is the exchange:
SereneBlueSky7 to @IamToddBentley I’ve studied enough the Bible to see what a mess that book really is. And how the idea of God is so laden with tradition. about 3 hours ago via web
SereneBlueSky7 to @IamToddBentley Thanks, but I guess I lost my faith many years ago.2 yrs ago tried to go back 4 healin just to see that I really don’t want. about 3 hours ago via web
IamToddBentley to @SereneBlueSky7 we’ll pray for u to find it again about 3 hours ago via Twitterrific
IamToddBentley: Is gonna listen to Bill Johnson tonite. Also check out healing prayers cd now on iTunes. Search Todd Bentley about 3 hours ago via Twitterrific
SereneBlueSky7 to @IamToddBentley At the same time I kinda believe supernatural healings are sometimes possible, but I don’t know what their real source is. about 6 hours ago via web
SereneBlueSky7 to @IamToddBentley You weren’t there any more. Anyway, I don’t believe. I wish there was some magical Being up there, but I don’t think so. about 6 hours ago via web
SereneBlueSky7 to @IamToddBentley I was in Lakeland in August 08 trying to catch whatever God had for me,but since then I lost my faith since nothing happened about 6 hours ago via web
SereneBlueSky7 to @IamToddBentley In a way I think you’re quite honest and I like your preaching style, but advertizing, embellishing is a part of your style. about 6 hours ago via web
SereneBlueSky7 to @IamToddBentley How can you be sure the revivalist of the old didn’t embellish their stories a bit for the sake of their own image? about 15 hours ago via web
Todd’s brains trust will appreciate how he managed to get his ad on Twitter. It’s even longer that his reponse to the Tweeter who lost their faith in God after being disappointed at Lakeland. But, first things first.
Todd can say all he wants that he is sorry. But will he “do” as if he is sorry? I would suggest that “I am praying for you” is a bit pat.
If the Canadian blogger is right, Todd Bentley left chaos behind him in Abbotsford B.C.. But now, he has a new wife and a new life on the other side of the continent. A repentant heart would want to make amends, but now Todd has a perfect sounding excuse not to clean up the mess that he made. He’s back evangelizing. Also trying to make amends for his past failures would merely interfere with the “message” of his proposed new Discovery TV show and use up valuable TV “marketing Todd” time.
I wonder how many people are like these two on the ‘net, but have just decided not to speak out.
I also wonder how many people that Todd Bentley will find that he callously hurt on his own judgement day.
In a post on his blog, explaining his growing attraction to atheism, TheDon writes in another context: “The evidence is staring someone in the face, yet they refuse to accept the truth.”
I think that this aside might apply to those who think that Todd Bentley is ready to minister worldwide shortly. But, perhaps, that is just me.
When leaders of our Lord God fail us, we must rest in Jesus, because he promised to return. So, for this reason we know we can turn to Jesus for help.
A bad shepard causes much unneeded destruction in many lives. The teaching of false ideas and actions of sinfulness, only nourish the sinful action more.
Those bad leaders care more for themselves, not their flock. They have abondoned the flock of the Lord Jesus Christ, but Jesus himself will gather and protect them. Those selfish leaders will give the best to themselves, while the Lord’s flock will starve.
The Messiah is our only perfect shepherd.
Hopesome,
you sound like a fiction writer.
SereneBlueSky7
‘You sound like a fiction Writer’
You sound like you have come to the end of your intellect and therefore are insulting mine
Power to speak – learn – and be free to discuss is a gift –
Sadly lacking in some it would seem!- Grace is also a gift
Trying to outwit is not however – Insight may not be yours right now so I understand the frustration you seem to be having at its being presented to you –
Dignity is also available should you ever deem its import
Sadly lacking in some it would seem!
You profess to be a Christian? Then act like one. I don’t have to. I don’t claim to be a Christian. I’m not even writing in my native language here. Perhaps you’re not either, but in the end you’re trying so hard to provocate. My mistake is that part of me likes to be provoked. And I don’t think I’m ever able to explain my insights or inner revelations to you. I’ve come to know that we humans are worlds apart from each other – even people that you thought you knew. Words can only reach the space they’re understood in each person’s mind. Mere words can never bring total understanding, ever. That’s one reason why there are so many denominations and why some are calling some other heretics etc. ad infinitum. And way too many people think the world can be described by words only.
Luke Luke 6: 41-42
41″Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 42How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye?
Our little boy was not sleeping well tonight. Up reading about you Hopesome. I really do appreciate your feelings about our Jesus. You are very real to me. Thank you and Godbless.
SereneBlueSky7
I don’t recall selling myself as a christian – !
I do recall however your challenge of them and their love of a saviour;
LOVE HAS NO LABEL, TITLE, POSITION, it is –
Love is something I wanted – is something I never could understand in its dimensions, hypocrisy, denials, its Judas was all evident but is unconditional was not – I needed to know why it failed so many times and who was responsible ULTIMATELY for its decline –
I realised that love only seems to go so far and then it runs out – it leaves, it then denies to sustain its leaving, it lies, cheats, and leaves death for many in its wake of betrayal – Its not the way – and I wanted answers ——
Answers that made real who we are and why – Was Jesus denied love at the end – YES – he was fed their sourness (vinegar is sour)He was fed their mockery – and so on and yet all he wanted to do was protect them – Today in some cases it’s no different to that day stated in the biblical – I go to join my father he said and gave us hope in his ending – ONE WILL COME WHO IS GREATER THAN I – Meaning ! What I am is not enough to overcome and so I go – for to bring the necessary and in the necessary – that will defeat that which both held me captive and you – BECAUSE I LOVE YOU –
Why did they have the prophet eat ‘cow dung’ – WHY DO THEY MAKE US !
LOVE – far greater than ours is needed to unite all the factions, cultures, and dimensions of us humans and our ‘kingdoms that we reign in and from, ‘ THATS WHY WE NEED HIS when ours runs out – Afghanistan I heard on the radio, has been in a war with Britain for more than 200 hundred years – did, in that time, nobody learn anything – do they like the conflict ! does it give the ones who invent new weapons of destruction a chance to use them perhaps – No – the human mind needs a renewal ! Otherwise ‘same same ‘ comes into play and history just keeps going round in a circle of war and want – love is the answer – but it has to be enough to take the insults, take the lies, take the hate, take the poverty and still keep going in the face of all the hell (hades) out there and say effectively NO (thats not the way) I LOVE YOU (don’t) and yet with love and for love and of love and then weep in the solitude of knowing hates all consuming fire –
The saviour I have come to know has left no stone unturned in my life that needed sorting and hurt is not the word to describe its aftermath – His spirit was taken – don’t let them take yours –
Susan – thank you
It can be a lonely road at times – forgive me if I have upset you in any way – but I love him as do you and based on who he was for me not what he was said to be – I don’t like labels they detract from whats behind them – yet respect them when they present themselves – I just want a better place to be in ‘the whole time not just some of the time and ‘sorry Todd’ but your place of abiding is rather hit and miss. Its a privilege to be able – Cain denied the able – Its time to deny the cain in and among us and let able have its/his/her day -
the human mind needs a renewal
I’ve thought like this for a long time but there simply isn’t any outward source to give renewal to humans. We are completely alone in that. And we are very dumb when it comes to huge crowds. We are an agressive species, it’s in our genes and we can’t help it. There’s no one to save us from our condition (and I’m not referring to some Old Testament stories here). That’s the truth I’ve learned.
I go to join my father he said and gave us hope in his ending – ONE WILL COME WHO IS GREATER THAN I
You certainly write in parables. I can only begin to question, for example this sentence. Do you mean the Holy Spirit? Or what greater there was after Jesus? You really do write as if it was your profession. I can see that. Specifically confounding style. Are you trying to look like a prophet?
Love is something I think I must have quite a lot, but it doesn’t mean that one can’t express their anger at times. If loving means not being honest, that is not love. In my experience the true love is always in perfect honesty. That’s not what I found in many churches. I found it elsewhere. I could find it in me even though I don’t believe. Yet my faith in some respects have grown, but it’s not Christian “faith”. I certainly have faith in me, knowing myself better.
Seems to me like Todd B and his pals really have/had an anti-revival going on. Well, anyway thanks for talking with me SBS7, I wasn’t sure at first if you really wanted to get into this very much, not wanting to drag you into conversation if you were reluctant, I thought you might have had enough of that sort of thing. No question in my mind people are being used and abused in much of ‘Christendom’ today. Take care.
Therese,
I guess I better mention that the process of losing my Christian faith has been going on for quite many years now. Lakeland revival was a beacon of hope for me for a short while. I had already lost most of my faith before for things that are in the Bible, that I never accepted truly, even though I like to think I did. But finally I came to my senses and acknowledged what I truly think of that Book. I tried for a long time to escape the controversial questions it poses and when God didn’t bring any light to my questions I finally got the revelation that this God can not be what this Book says He is. Maybe there’s no God at all and the reality behind everything is quite something else. I got back the sense of magical wonder when I think of different phenomenons etc under the sun. Everything just brightened when I started seeing the world without any preconceived ideas about it.
The word prophet is not one that I use in view of the false prophets that seem in abundance, especially in America!!! Don’t tar me with that brush please……..
He can and does restore the mind but sometimes we are just not ready for it and have to go on a journey that will prepare us for that day when he brings to us newness. I think thats when the likes of Todd offering us such a great newness that has little fruit lets us down and destroys more of our faith than it gifts and leaves us in doubt as to not only healing but redemptions power to restore us from the fallen nature that trips us up and holds us back. You have been ‘through’ church and bible and charismatic moves and shakings and want ‘real’ – I can understand that – and applaud it – Me too thats what keeps me moving always in the direction of a greater understanding of not only where I have been but where I am heading –
That means that my faith needs upping and my hope, as he shows me what lack we walk in and live in and hope in and its restrictions that keep us all captive in its web –
Love – we are told overcomes all things – To do that it has to overcome that which created us a ‘place’ to hate – It has to be greater than the sum total of – and that battle for our love has always been a priority – by both sides !! Christians sometimes make it sound easy and its not – sometimes it just means that they have nestled there for a while and become ok – ‘necessary if you are hurting and needing a place to put it – To ‘be greater than’ means many things but to get to its hope, generally speaking, we lay something down as we head towards it – Jesus did that – he laid down his life and then took on the Fathers –
So one will come who is greater than I
Does that mean spirit – Well if Jesus spirit left him I guess he would indeed need another – but I guess it operated in a love ‘far greater than’ and when they saw him / or thought it was him while on the ‘road to ‘ ‘he seemed different and that would be
why – It was him ‘but he was ‘clothed’ in a different way – Being in the Fathers spirit would then enable him to overcome a higher authority in enemy territory and begin to bring to us here, witness of his approaching presence – While at the same time being understanding of that which is in place here and the expectations we have and do have and also the need we have to understand what has been going on in the meantime – Who could he give that information to that wouldn’t sell it, make a ‘meal ‘ out of it ‘ go to hollywood with it, ect., Thats been the problem – So many have us entrenched in their way of thinking he has to bear in mind the reactions and repercussions of his making himself known to them and theirs plus a world that surely would be embarrassed at him returning to such a quagmire of threads and webs we in our limited capacity have created – Discretion is beautifull in his hands and brings only hope for us – there are those that in their so called knowledge of him destroy our hope in the telling of theirs -
I know the Lord honours honesty wherever it leads us – I’m sure He prefers it to the hypocrisy that is all too often seen. The bible is hard to understand, at least I find it so, and I suspect it is often interpreted through the veil of what is already in a person’s heart. Hence we often see a self-righteous, greedy, controlling and vindictive God portrayed and preached – and yet I know from experience that He doesn’t treat me that way!…so something must be wrong in the way that Book is being understood, at least that’s the conclusion I have come to.
Many versions indeed and thats why discernment is such a precious gift at these times when the world is in such an upheaval of conflict of interests and ways –
Many call him Lord – but he knows which ones he can trust his most precious with -
I think thats when the likes of Todd offering us such a great newness that has little fruit lets us down and destroys more of our faith
Todd Bentley’s revival didn’t destroy my faith. The things I had previously struggled did. And I’m glad I got rid of that illusion.
You have been ‘through’ church and bible and charismatic moves and shakings and want ‘real’
That time is past. I don’t want any religious real any more, or “faith” real. Just my own reality, however I see it. In the end each of us see the reality in their own way.
You keep talking about Jesus, but I don’t feel I need this guy any more. Quite non-existent being to me, like a flying spaghetti monster or some such. I think he was just a human being who got crucified.
SereneBlueSky7
When you have understood your will –
Maybe you will understand his –
Be happy ‘ ‘if its what your after
God Bless
Therese,
so something must be wrong in the way that Book is being understood, at least that’s the conclusion I have come to.
Indeed. And the same book claims that the Holy Spirit will guide the believers to all the truth there is. So how come there are so many interpretations?
Well, I know you will say that because there are many other spirits as well out there to confound and lead astray. But I just find it so astonishing when a person prays with their whole heart to the God to give them the right interpretation etc. and then God allows some other spirit answer to them? I just find this so strange like this God really has trouble in answering prayer and in the end doesn’t seem to be able to do it, unless people get pure-heartedly asking from the right Spirit?!! It sounds like people should make themselves holy before they can receive anything from God. Make themselves holy without the help of God. Doesn’t that sound strange to you? I thought it’s God who sanctifies people first. But no, instead of real answers people just get these wrong answers and interpretations and God is not found. Such a difficult guy this God person. And this kind of thinking is basically circular where one can never get anywhere real. The Bible has so many loopholes and contradictions that it’s astonishing people keep believing in it.
Well, in the end many Christians don’t even believe in the Bible, but rather in the Christian tradition.
When you have understood your will –
Maybe you will understand his –
Whose will? Gods? All I really know is my thoughts and mine alone. I’ve never really sensed any supernatural other “will, being” wanting me to do something of religious nature like some people claim they hear God’s voice in their head. Well, there can be many explanations to that. We don’t even know how our consciousness forms and some people have multiple personality disorders etc.
This faith thing for me was all acquired outwardly and believed by a conscious decision. And I found out that decision was stupid since it was based on groundless assumptions.
I’ll tell you a little about my journey – it wasn’t until I put some distance between myself and “churches” that Jesus began to Shepherd me and open His word to me. I first had to be cleansed of all the wrong doctrines and ideas I had picked up over the years and start afresh with Him alone as my teacher. I have gained a better idea of who He is over the last few years alone, than in all the previous years “in church”. But I’ll tell you a little secret: the truth costs. He said to take up our cross and follow Him – extra oil for our lamps has to be bought. But not with money – you who have NO MONEY come and buy. Most of the churches don’t understand this and don’t preach it, or lead their flocks on that narrow way – consequently they and their members have lost a lot of revelation. Jesus opened the way for us so that we could follow. Our old carnal nature is in the way of seeing and understanding Him, so the more this is crucified the more we gain. But it’s not the way the churches want you to do it – they want you to lay down your life for THEM- give to them, support their little empires and delusions of spiritual grandeur, volunteer in all their programs and conferences, jump through their hoops. But Jesus said, come to me all you who are weary and heavy ladened and I will give you REST! Take HIS yoke upon you and learn of Him for He is gentle and humble of heart (paraphrasing). His ways are not man’s ways, I’m finding His ways are much humbler, simpler, quieter, there is no pressure with Jesus to “be somebody” in the kingdom, in fact the less of a somebody we are the better as far as He is concerned!
Therese, your journey sounds similar to mine, except that your journey of faith kept going where mine ended when I sought “the truth” at all costs. I, as anyone sincerely seeking to know Christ does, accepted the fact that the church bears no semblance to the early church. So I left the reprobate churches and discarded everything man had taught me, only to be taught by Holy Spirit alone. My greatest desire was to know what he would have me do here, just as Saul asked of Jesus on the road. I did not believe that we were just put here to wile away the time in church. My desire was to be conformed to his image here on earth. In doing so, He would be seen in and through me, and be glorified and the power of his resurrection. In doing so, I weighed the costs and counted everything as lost to obtain his lordship over my life. I had no reservations about being conformed to his SUFFERINGS. And there were many. I was a willing vessel. Whatever it took.
The cost was great. I lost family, friends, possessions to know him. I put away my pride to defend his honour even as the body of christ was bringing him great dishonour before a mocking world. I put my whole fate in his hands – trusted him as my provider for EVERYTHING. Did not worry or care for today for I crossed the line of faith, not in my head or my “heart”, but in my actions every day. You could say that I died to myself so that I could live for Christ, demonstrably. Since I believed that the kingdom was within me and that he ruled and reigned over his kingdom, my hope was to demonstrate the reality of Christ in the earth. (Which is what Christians are supposed to be doing by His power and failing miserably at btw.)
Sadly, after years, he was a no-show. My heart and mind were “right” and willing to be made a vessel fit for honour to serve him with a pure heart. He just was no where to be found. Why did he ignore my cries to him? How can a father ignore the cries of his hungry child, giving no indication that he even heard let alone responded? All along my journey I continued to be brutally honest with myself and with god about how I was feeling. I could have pretended that he was really there just to keep the delusion alive. After all, I had forsaken so much. And I won’t lie. It felt good to “know” that there was the creator of the universe caring for me. But I am not the kind to live a lie no matter how comforting it may be. I am not a fake. He truly was the god that was not there despite my longing for him. Eventually, I learned to pick myself up and accept the fact that this god is a fraud. He does not live up to his word. And that is the truth. You might think he does, but you are the one perpetuating the one-sided relationship in your mind.
The final nail in the coffin was reading about the history of the church and the origins and veracity of the bible.
In hindsight, I hope anyone experiencing a hard time in life, who gets swept up in the loving arms of the church, doesn’t waste years and years as I did in the vortex of Christianity only to find that as surely as an innocent child can see, the emperor has no clothes on.
Just as Christians may say that a person has to be made “ready” by the Holy Spirit to receive Christ, so does a Christian have to ready to want to know the truth about whether their personal god is a reality or just a figment of someone’s imagination that has managed to glide along through generations without so much as objective scrutiny or examination of the claims of this religion. Thankfully society has progressed despite Christianity and we no longer get sent to the stake for critically examining and questioning the veracity of this belief system and the impact it has had on our world.
I can’t account for the differences in our journey Marina, all I can say is that I have discovered in my experience that in not giving up, (by His grace and believe me only by the skin of my teeth at times), that He does indeed keep His word.. Is it possible that you were running ahead of the Lord, giving more than He required, doing more than HE asked of you? I know that is the tendency of these false movements to make you feel that you need to do that – one of which you were part of that I am very familiar with – D.D. at the Miracle Channel. Our faith is proven, we are tested and tried and sifted, and dunked in the furnace of affliction in order to be refined like precious metal..but it’s for the Lord to do, it is He who allows and brings the trials our way, it’s not for us to try and prove our worth – it’s already been settled that we are not worthy in our flesh and this is exactly why Jesus died for us. We are saved by grace, by HIS sacrifice, not by our works and sacrifice.
In my life the Lord has led me to stop “doing” and come back to rest in His grace. Even the ‘doing nothing’ is a cross, for me. Nothing whatsoever to hinge my self-esteem or earthly and eternal security on – but Jesus! Fasting from endeavours – my flesh is starving for lack of ‘activity’, which is just what it needs to do. Good – let it starve to death. I don’t know if any of that speaks at all to your situation or not, but maybe…?
A little mention about the bible – I was raised in Catholicism and recently the Lord gave me yet another deliverance – that of the idolatry of the bible – you see it was ‘canonized’, which is virtually another way of saying “deified” and without realizing it there was that idolatry in my life – unfortunately a very common thing in Christendom.
Even though there have been bad translations, some omission and additions to these writings, the Lord in His sovereignty has allowed that enough has survived that it is still a very “useful” and “profitable” spiritual tool. In it’s orginal and correct form, it was God-breathed. But just as creation has fallen along with man, yet nature still manages to speak forth of the things of God in living parables of spiritual truths. People can (and have been) saved and follow the Lord without a bible, yet while we have one – mm-mm, I do find it useful and a great blessing those times when it is illuminated by the Holy Spirit!
Jewish copiers have high reverence for scripture. The monks in days gone by did not. Here is a beautiful fact in history. The experts name is Tischendorf and this was in 1849 at St. Catherine’s Monastery, in the Sinai Peninsula.
Tischendorf observed a monk with an abundance of manuscripts. Tischendorf recognized that the writing was very old script. The monk was going to burn this armful a manuscripts. In thoses armfuls of manuscripts, just happen to be the oldest nearly complete text of the NT that we have. It is called the Aleph. (First letter of the Hebrew alphabet). In now sits in a Library in London England.
You can google Codex Sinaiticus.
It can just make you feel quite anguished sometimes to think of what man has destroyed, or attempted to, and still does! In the old testament it says Jer 8:8 ” ‘How can you say, “We are wise, for we have the law of the Lord,” when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?” Even then sinful man was trying to obliterate what he found to be inconvenient or not in line with his religious self-interests. If not for God..
But just as creation has fallen along with man,
Just a quick question… Where can I find the above statement? If it’s in the Bible, please provide me with the reference as I have yet to find anything authoritative that confirms creation has fallen. Not even a remote mention.
The only verse I can find , that mankind fell from God’s presence due to disobedience and creation was affected too, is in Genesis 3:17.
Found a couple more verses, in Romans 8:20-22, when Paul spoke to the Romans about a future glory.
We are told spirit breathed life into ‘ but who’s spirit – just look at us – aren’t we ‘creations’ result !! I’d say we are ‘fallen’ and what we create has that element always with it – His perfect creation is something we seek so as to be ‘like him’ and stop ‘the rot from infiltrating our lives – Its just the methods we use have been ‘passed down’ distorted, and left us in more chaos with hardly a ‘hope to guide us’ -
Rom 8:19-21 The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
Marina,
Thanks for your post. Nice reading about someone else experiencing somewhat similar things that I have. However, it seems you paid a bit higher cost than I did in searching God, but I had already lost quite a lot for my illness which in the end was the main reason for my intense searching for God. (I guess you must have been a better Christian than I ever was). Some things that happen to us people are just plain wrong to begin with and it’s astonishing that this God of Christianity doesn’t care for that so much. Any parent seeing their child suffer couldn’t just walk away, I feel this “Heavenly Father” clearly doing a poor job taking care of His children. Not much caring as much as I can see. The Bible talks so much about healing and yet the reality of the church is completely different today. Not much healing going on. Just some magic tricks, or so it seems. The mere pretending that faith works seems to be causing people to become liars first to themselves and then to others since they absolutely can’t reveal their doubts or allow people to see how little this faith has sanctified them really. This happens almost without conscious knowledge, this pretending becomes quite natural and after a while you don’t even realise you’re doing it. Faith is not real if the has to be any pretending present. If one claims to be “born-again”, then they should also behave like it was real. Since it’s not real, the only way they can try to show they’re “born-again” is pretending and forcing themselves to “behave like Christians”. How could that ever be the reality we live in? I find it stupid now that I see it so clearly. The truth simply IS, no pretending in the truth. And so the truth is where there’s no pretending. If one has gotten accustomed to pretending, they’re not even aware that it’s present. And if following God really was that difficult, that you’d have to force yourself each day walk according to the words of the Bible, while your inner self might greatly disagree – then this “faith” is really a bit too difficult to my mind and places too much faith on the ability of humans to follow God and make lasting decisions. In my experience we humans very seldom make lasting promises about anything. If Christianity by some strange reason had any reality behind it, I truly think this God made a grave mistake by giving the Church and humans so much power to decide. Jesus truly died in vain. Or perhaps he was just another poor, crucified man.
To all the saul-know-it-alls aka egomaiacs!
Saul thought he knew it all too, but, lucky for him -and us too – Jesus in His mercy humble him, and taught Paul.
I really do WISH supremely that Jesus would do the same here and now, but, HE IS HOLY and does what He wants.
SB7BS
Why don’t you tell me what you think is the core of true gospel.”
Gee, a child can understand it. Here is your problem: you are vain, egotistical, self-centred, as is every human who refuses to honour God and submit to God’s will.
Duh.
Jer 17:9 Crooked is the heart above all things, And it is incurable–who doth know it?
Jer 17:10 I Jehovah do search the heart, try the reins, Even to give to each according to his way, According to the fruit of his doings”. Youngs
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; who can know it?
Jer 17:10 I Jehovah search the heart, I try the reins, even to give to each man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his doings. MKJV
———-
Jer 17:7 Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is.
Jer 17:8 For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit.
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Jer 17:10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings. KJV
Get over yourself, rebels! God loves you and will always be love – but He is also Judge.
re: ” I find it stupid now that I see so clearly. Jesus truly died in vain. Or perhaps he was just another poor, crucified man.” HOW VAIN you are, Jesus certainly IS real, just not to you – and no wonder. Without faith you cannot please God, Heb. 11:6.
SB7BSBS: I hope you realize all sins are forgiveable – EXCEPT blaspheming the Holy Spirit. I am sure none of your idols taught this, as they are also guilty of the same sin, and have forsaken the holy, and gone clean away from the straight and narrow path. Jude 11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core”.
Blaspeming, or “saying with an intention to hinder” is simply belittling the Words of Jesus, of God, to make His words of no importance. And the words of Jesus ARE the Holy Spirit:
Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickens, the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit, and they are life.”
Life here is “dzoay” or “the life God has”, not bios or psuche, which are biological/psychological life, which we do have naturally.
Again in Eph. 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God”. The Spirit is the Word.
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If my other post did not work, here it is
Laws 632
Here is your problem: you are vain, egotistical, self-centred, as is every human who refuses to honour God and submit to God’s will.
*smile*
If you knew me, you wouldn’t say this. If I’m not as nice as I used to be…well, that’s just because I’ve noticed it doesn’t make sense to be nice for some religion’s sake or keep on believing things that are not real. Reality isn’t that nice either. I finally embraced it myself, the truth that I feared in the beginning.
What is there to blaspheme? I don’t know the meaning of these words any more. They’re part of the religious views that I don’t share any more.
No other goodness is real except when you’re doing good just because you really want to, no outward force making you to do so.
I think you are correct SBS7, about the about the religious views. The theology behind religious views can be quite clouded. I have to remind myself everyday, that when I don’t put my faith in Jesus, He always has faith in me. No religion here, just a word of encouragement.
We have all been crucified on some level in some way – Judgement does that to you – To walk away with onlybitter memories and bile covering them is something we witness amongst us every single day – Its easier to dislike than to like when all the odds are against you – thats when we either fight – or take on board the hurt and do something constructive with its stings – To be able is to remove that which is disabling, and with the government systems in place that ‘tie us down and bind us’ thats not always easy – I witness daily the result of those who fall into or are put into a category that disables rather than ables, its signs are seen on the streets of the town where I live daily. Supernatural in mans hands is only as far as his spirit goes – Supernatural in the Father is beyond comprehensions limitations and structures and when witnessed ‘would have you scared out of your wits’ at its horrifying power to move and shake and change things – We are made up, as humans of many parts and when not in complete harmony some of the parts in their unease can cause disease to form and grow – that then can ‘infect not just the body but our attitude and focus – Its wrong that there is a lack of harmony and wrong that we dwell in its habitat and suffer – Nature needs ‘cleaning, our hope needs cleaning, our expectations in terms of what and how and when Jesus can and won’t do and/ or can do and when he is coming to show himself among us, the planetary systems that link earth and us are, when not alighned with him, contrary in their ways not ‘for’ and so healing then is so multifaceted that we have only been give a minute portion of its biblical explanation – Todd has limitations as to knowledge and foresight and no disrespect, but the dollar signs get in the way – In ones assumptions and hopes crucifixtion can come to another and therefor one should keep ones ‘mouth tightly shut’ and silent untill one knows exactly what is going on !!! That way you speak with an authority that knows truth is truth and gifts truth – When you have truth you have the authority to speak its name and only then can you say in the name of Jesus – otherwise its just words with not much else – Authority can and indeed does, move mountains ‘their authority is for the most part based in a place with ‘mans understanding’ not his – healing hurts when it fails to manifest in a way we expect – but nevertheless he heals and it does manifest whether we see it or not – sometimes we ask for ‘a leg to be healed when he sees a broken heart – I prayed for twelve years for healing in a certain arena and its answer I am still being given and it wasn’t in any way the one I expected or particularly wanted, to say the least, but I asked for it, you could say!! It tough to keep faith never mind walk in it – he knows that, I for one though refuse to give up or give in until I know ‘exactly what and why we battle daily for the scraps from under a world orientated table of, you have, you have not, syndrome thats leaves us constantly starving for answers – SO THERE -
Satan you have met your match – Hell indeed hath no fury like this woman scorned
That’s beautiful Hopesome.
Your faith is an inspiration.
Thanks!
Satan you have met your match – Hell indeed hath no fury like this woman scorned
Exactly so! And I have the truth on my side. If there really was a true God, this God would’ve understood a person who wants something real and some answers.
I’ve never given up my hope. It’s just different now. Based on things more close to me that actually help. Not the religious babble you keep going. Go ahead, say something more! Show me your true faith!
SBS7
What is true faith – For me its a journey – As you journey there are those that started of with you along the ‘road’ in all good faith – but then ‘when you go to a destination that they find too hard to follow they ‘fall away’ and in some way so does your faith IN them –
I, like most of us, had been part of a structure – ie; family – household, neighbourhood etc., When I began to ‘leave that structure is when ‘they should have had faith in me’, they didn’t – I just would have liked someone to say ‘go for it’ but they didn’t they preferred me to be as I had been, they were comfortable with that, they knew I had always been there for them whenever ‘the call came’. That lack showed me who ‘they were’ and what they were – They had no faith in me – so I needed some ‘big time’ if I was to follow the call of my heart at the same time as being there for theirs, – I learn’t that secure is a place that doesn’t exist in the world of man and his ways – only his, I learn’t that trust is fleeting and conditional not him, I learn’t that people are full of themselves for the most part, not him, I learn’t that to keep quiet was paramount in any conflict as you allow the enemy to show him/herself and only then to respond if appropriate, I learn’t that I had nothing as each day he gave me something far greater in wisdom and understanding and hope – Their faith for me was temporal his was not – I longed for them to join me but he showed me that that was a choice that was theirs not mine and not to persuade – for fear of converting them from their heart and love into mine – When you are faced with a lack of hope and love from those who are supposed to be their for you you have to acknowledge the lack – take the brokeness you feel at it – still maintain a status quo – deal with the hurt and anger and still keep on going ‘and cook the dinner ‘!! There were times when I felt like slinging the dinner believe me – however there was always a place given where I could vent my frustration and anger without inflicting it on anyone elses – I had to have faith to follow him into the unknown – still do – yet there is always enough to keep me seeking but not enough to get me so comfortable as to ‘fall asleep’ and dollars and dimes never came into any of it, I just learn’t about the unequal distribution of wealth and why -
Faith for me is knowing but also witnessing and yet as I do I lose faith and the transition hurts – I have recently had to leave a place that had been in my heart for years, a place that had comforted me in times of hurt and pain – a dream if you like – a hope for an expression of my love – a small something from that dream came my way two weeks ago – its was something I had always wanted and had pictured so many times in my heart and mind – when I had purchased it I knew that it was good bye to my expectations – my hopes – and that dream – A good bye to all that it had represented throughout that time and journey and so right now I have nothing once again – Where do I go from here – where am I now – at this precise moment left with a purchase that is beautiful yet between a place where I have been and a bridge (I hope!) to where I am going – untill all the strands that made up that dream have been broken I know that that purchase will not be fully mine – So break the strands lord so I can move on before the pain the dream held back engulfs and drowns me – I didn’t want false hope but lord it hurts to lose it – my family I have had to win back by not letting their gibes and mockery insight me to the point of turning away in anger or ‘never will I speak to you again’ frustration – I am still trying but some have great walls protecting their hearts and at the same time as learning why and being understanding I have to remember that I must protect my heart as I try and reach theirs. It is incredibly lonely and yet with his life and hope you are never alone – My hope has a glimmer he gave it to me that day in the purchase – now as I leave that place I had ‘placed’ it I look for another place to secure both it’s and my future – I need faith – for me, for them for mine and also patience in the giving of it and outworking of it – In one sense my house ‘in the actual’ I know I shall be leaving at some point, in the meantime I need him to place me in his till not only I am ready to receive but also to give that place of newness – I need faith
I would like to do it all by myself – but I can’t – it just gets too much of me in it and not enough of him in it. Gods – there are many of – finding the one who is true and truth is a journey for which you need faith – and hope -
I had a dream ! –
My husband was an alcoholic – on a bad day he would come home and in his grief and agony smash things – like lebanon etc., I would rebuild only months later to have it taken – in the end my desire to rebuild and create had to be quieted as he passed through the various stages of recovery and fall, recovery and fall – and so my dream was a place of beauty and all the things of my heart desires – My purchase ‘a chair’ a very particular chair – one I dreamed of having, yet never expecting – Passing through the shop that day and seeing it was scarey – to purchase it, more so – It means a multitude – I am being myself, I am allowing myself, but he had to make me worthy of myself – As the alcoholism finally began to leave so did many things – We are left with pieces all around us that have needed a place of cohesion – the provision of that place was from him and of him and though I wonder at times where the fruits are in such a rotten barrel and at times despair – I can’t give up,I have too many questions that need answers – And a destination of perfection for me and my chair !!!
Hi Serene. Yes I could hold out some hope for Christianity if the followers of Jesus would only act like him. That they do not, is alone enough for anyone to question the validity of this belief. The born agains must use their own strength and will- power to try to be holy like him after conversion, because there is no miraculous transforming power from above that actually does change hearts and conform them to his nature and character. The evidence for lack of power in making a heart pure and holy, is in churches everywhere. The bogus signs and wonders movement is further evidence that their is no divine power in them or their words.
I think there may be something to supernatural healing, but like you said, nothing out of the bible. Who knows, if we humans are ever able to discard our dependence on a god, we may even discover that we are innately equipped with our own power to heal our bodies. Studies have shown that people randomly recover from terminal illness equally, whether having been prayed over or not. And of course the question of why god doesn’t heal amputees will forever plague believers of the “if you believe you will receive WHATEVER you ask for in prayer” bunch.
It’s hard for believers to see where you and I are coming from. But the thing is, we have been where they are at and have escaped the bondage of religion and grown beyond for whatever reason. They haven’t. Yet.
Hopesome,
Sorry, but your writing sounds to me like you’re on another planet. Can’t relate at all.
Yes I could hold out some hope for Christianity if the followers of Jesus would only act like him. That they do not, is alone enough for anyone to question the validity of this belief.
Yeah, exactly right. If only I had accepted as truth what I witnessed long ago. The difference was just that I wasn’t strong enough or mature enough to accept it. I’m so glad I finally did and saw the truth.
Who knows, if we humans are ever able to discard our dependence on a god, we may even discover that we are innately equipped with our own power to heal our bodies.
Yep. Human beings sometimes heal miraculously. I experienced something like that myself, meaning that I lived, but I’m still paying the price for survival. I’d have liked total healing. I hope to no one what I’ve gone through.
But the thing is, we have been where they are at and have escaped the bondage of religion and grown beyond for whatever reason. They haven’t. Yet.
I hope and kind of know that many who are believers now may really end up losing their faith later. There’s a certain percent of them. And, as the society’s secularization further progresses during the years (especially thinking the Christian faith), we are going to start to see more and more people seeing through the Christian doctrines.
SBS7
In the world not of it -
Nailed it perfectly.
Hopesome,
“In the world not of it”
How do you demonstrate this? I mean what tangible thing do you possess that I do not even though I suppose that now I, by default, am “of” the world? What makes you visibly and observably different from me?
Hi all
This early morning I had the revelation that the Holy Spirit is … HOLY.
He can be quenched and grieved. We are told NOT to do this. When God says not to do it, there are God-sized consequences if we disobey.
The Holy Spirit does not like to be around people who are anti-God, who hate God’s rules. This is why a lot of people don’t get convicted of their sin, the HOLY Spirit is grieved and quenched by rebellious haters.
God turns a person’s consequences into what they want, if they seek Him and desire Him, He will show Himself to that one.
To the others, who follow the crowd and the wide road to hell, He will give them what they want: 2Sa 22:27 With the pure You will show Yourself pure; and with the perverted You will appear perverse.” From H6140; distorted; hence false: – crooked, froward, perverse.
Psa 18:20 The LORD rewarded me according to my righteousness; according to the cleanness of my hands hath he recompensed me.
Psa 18:25 With the merciful thou wilt shew thyself merciful; with an upright man thou wilt shew thyself upright;
Psa 18:26 With the pure thou wilt shew thyself pure; and with the froward thou wilt shew thyself froward.
Psa 18:27 For thou wilt save the afflicted people; but wilt bring down high looks.
This verse says it all: Psa 138:6 Though the LORD be high, yet He has respect unto the lowly: but the proud he knows from afar off. “
At least SB7BS is open about who and what he is:
“I hope and kind of know that many who are believers now may really end up losing their faith later.”
And without faith, one CANNOT please God, this is the test God has graciously given to all humans, who ALL have the light of God at birth, “Jesus is that light which lightens EVERY soul born” ~ see John 1:9. (I read somewhere that apparently deep in the heart of each human is an atom which is of the same nature of the sun, I think at 6000 [degrees] Kelvin which measures light/heat. This is from secular sources.)
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
“To ALL who seek Him, Rewarder He becomes” is the Greek.
Jesus never said huge numbers would be saved, but “few”. Why? It is man’s nature to be haughty, arrogant, vain. This came from the father of the fallen one, satan, who passes on these attributes to herd-like humans through media and culture etc, “the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience” Ephesians 2:2.
It is no coincidence tattooing and piercing are popular, versus any other time in history.
If you would like a little empirical evidence just compare the overall quality of life in ‘pagan’ countries with those with a Christian heritage. Would you prefer to live in say, India, or Thailand, or maybe Russia or Iran? How about atheist North Korea? Why aren’t any atheists moving there? The people of those nations apparently agree since emmigration is overwhelmingly in this direction. People of Christian extraction are different from those who aren’t – not innately, but they are simply more blessed and the work of their hands is blessed. But not for long unfortunately – those blessings are being lost, due to increasing secularization and paganism in the western nations. We ‘westerners’ can’t even drill for oil and chew bubble gum at the same time any more.
Marina;
I worked in an office with a woman that ‘basically was a bitch (sorry to use that word) anything and everything that you did just wasn’t good enough and she made sure you and anyone listening knew about it – I use to go home at night and say ‘is it me lord’ and sometimes sob. I needed to know why she was so bitchy – why she liked to ‘lord it over everyone- and why she was so vindictive – I use to ‘take it on the chin’ come home and then go through the day trying to fathom out if I was at fault or her – It was at that time I was taught to keep my mouth shut and not answer back – this went on for nearly two years during which time I was just led to observe – She was one of the most manipulative women I have ever met – I knew I was ‘right’ by this time, that she was the one who constantly ‘attacked’ not me. Then one day she turned something the boss had said (it was to do with staff arrangements during sick leave and would I mind covering ) so obviously to her own advantage that I said NO. She freaked out – her bullying she had been so adept at finally had been confronted. Sounds simple – but all the elements had to be brought into play before I could ‘strike’. I had to know if it was me, I had to witness how she bullied and manipulated, I had to watch and observe her tactics, I had to know my enemy – then find a ‘place of power’ to strike from – and then not gloat at the victory ! A warrior taught me how to war ! and I loved him – Patience brought perfection – She withered and died a bunch that day and I still see her and we say Hi because in the taking of an enemy you should not leave more behind you – I was in ‘his world during that time’ not mine or hers – I needed to be, he knew all that was going on not me, I was just open to a way out of enemy territory and he gifted me one. Conflict gets nothing but more of the same, you have to rise above it to take it – and only then can you bring a gift to it – He brought me in to overcome it and then gifted me a way out of the victory – I wanted more of that love and beauty and when another ‘war’ came in another ‘form’ he was there – He ‘raptured me’ into his place because in mine there was something holding me back from the thought of confrontation – He strengthened me – There was a price – my patience was tested, my hope tested, my faith tested and so on – but it was worth it to witness him in action – Let your light so shine – and during that time he ‘lit’ me up and shone through my lack and hurt and grief. Visibly being different was at his discretion as was verbally ! Each confrontation brings with it a different set of circumstances and requirements and a lack of my will – that was the tough part laying down my will – I constantly battle with that – When I left that office ‘and went full time with him’ he was the sweet perfume left behind not me – There was no way I could have stolen his glory- it would have hurt too much knowing how much he had loved me in that hour of need – He’s not tacky or loud or in need of attention – we are, his garments are clean – mine are in the process of being, mans judgements are far worse than his – but he’s not afraid to judge when he has to, neither am I
Therese:
If you would like a little empirical evidence just compare the overall quality of life in ‘pagan’ countries with those with a Christian heritage.
I think you’re making too broad generalisations. I remember some polls about happiness where the third world countries scored quite high despite them being poor. Or non-Christian.
Well, what about peace?
http://epiphenom.fieldofscience.com/2009/06/atheist-nations-are-more-peaceful.html
http://www.visionofhumanity.org/gpi-data/#/2010/scor/
Hopesome,
Your story about striking against a manipulative person is not a great demonstration of Christian love. I wonder what Jesus have done in that situation? I remember how the Bible especially tells to love your enemies and pray for them. Not strike them to advance your own place in life. The war is spiritual, not the war of words. At least that’s what I read in the Bible and was taught by many. Christian soldier doesn’t fight like we think real fighting is. They fight by example and by prayer.
I still hold these principles to some value, even though I don’t believe in the power of prayer or God. Being too prone to advance your own status in life is not for Christians.
SBS7
Get a life – instead of taking mine !
Hopesome,
I’m sorry, I really don’t understand you responding to me like that.
“Taking your life”? Where did you get that idea? Why would I want your life?
I’m happy enough just being who I am, thank you. *smiles*
I only tried to point out to you something I noticed. And you respond like some kid.