When Benny Hinn made a statement to his followers in his August 5th broadcast that he had gone to Rome and had been made a Patron of the Arts it was inevitable someone would write the Vatican Museum program and ask.
Christian Research Services queried Fr. Mark Haydu, International Coordinator/Director of The Patrons of the Arts in the Vatican Museums. His response:
To my knowledge, Paula White or Benny Hinn were not invited to the Vatican Museums in any official context, nor did we find anyone on our donors database of Patrons under those names. [Original on file with CRS]
Haydu told Christian Research Services that thousands of people visit the Vatican yearly and he’d only be aware of Patrons and visitors to the Museums.
Benny Hinn was the one who told people on camera that was the Vatican department he dealt with. The full story is here, including Hinn and White’s original statements July 24th about their trip to Rome. You can watch the broadcast of Hinn saying he was made a Patron of the Arts here. This is what he said:
The Vatican did invite me a few days ago. They made me a Patron of the Arts in the Vatican two weeks ago. And that’s a fact! A Patron of the Arts means you support the Vatican so they can maintain all the work of Michelangelo. I’m one of the guys now that supports what they do. And that is a fact. I was there, and we were taken around by a man named Wilhelm Kramer [or Cramer]. And they asked me, literally they said, “Do you know people that can help us financially?” I said, “Alright.”
Now here’s where I made my mistake: I let her [Paula White] come with me to Rome, so she can donate money. That was stupid on my part.
It’s possible paperwork of the bestowing of Patron of the Arts to Hinn and White hasn’t caught up to Haydu, a lot of things are possible. Given the date of the Hinn/White Rome visit is publicly known, checking the visit would not be difficult for officials running the Museums. Or a curious researcher. Or The National Enquirer. Paula White supposedly told her congregation in Florida she was heading off on vacation during that time. (the broadcast is not online) After telling her congregation she was on vacation White then said in her July statement she was in Rome on ministry business. Her congregation found out about the Rome trip like everyone else from US tabloid. This is what she said in her public statement:
I publicly profess and forcefully renounce assertions that the recent trip to Italy to meet with Vatican officials suggests that the friendship is in any way improper or morally impure. We traveled independently to the region for respective ministry duties…
Since Hinn and White were ‘being made’ Patrons, they would have had to give the Vatican Museums money.
Donating would require real names or the name of their US ministries (donor money) and not the name David Solomon that Hinn supposedly used to check into the Rome hotel. It’s possible Hinn and White gave the Vatican a cash donation and phony names to become Patrons, anything is possible. But not probable.
If anything changes in this “I said/The Vatican said” discrepancy, I’ll post.
Update: Fr. Federico Lombardi of the Holy See Press Office says Benny Hinn met with the Pope in 1989 and visited the Vatican in 2008. DagenMaganinet July 31/10:
Some visitors will sit on the top row at a papal audience. They considered donating money to a major restoration of an organ. Hinn was one of them. If he gave money or not is unknown, Lombardi said.
Lombardi says the Vatican is aware of Hinn’s ministry and there are no plans for ministry co-operation. via Norway’s DagenMaganzinet
Fanny “sorry atheistatbirth if that scuppers your ‘plans’, but you need to shape up (in more ways than one!)”
Doesn’t scupper my intentions in the least. No apology necessary.
Hopesome says:
December 28, 2010 at 3:09 am
“Atheistatbirth….. I AM THE BIBLE”
Yes – you most definitely are. Out of date, vague, and filled with contradictions.
“In the hands of the enemy it has given hell a field day in interpretation – manifestation – and so called restoration!.”
Correction … should read, “In the hands of Christians”
Atheistatbirth: Out of date etc; Who me!
It takes one to know one – Atheist I visit out of date to bring it up to date.
Jacqueline says:
October 24, 2010 at 4:40 am
“I have tried to contact several so called ministers to give them a warning from the Lord… I have yet to get a reply. But as true as the Lord Is Righteous you will start to see them dropping dead.”
Please, please, please put me on your mailing list when this starts.
“When you talk to God it’s prayer, but when God talks to you it’s schizophrenia. . . . God may have his reasons, but he sure seems to employ a lot of psychotics to carry out his job orders.”
Beware of trying to ‘pigeonhole’ who I AM – said by Hopesome on 2th December 2010 at 18.42
It may be used in evidence against you !!!!!!
Ok Atheist ‘I get it!’
Correction for the court 28th December 2010 …..
One step ahead Atheist, beware my friend until you know who it is you are ‘dealing with’!
@Fanny “beware my friend until you know who it is you are ‘dealing with’!”
There you go again. Can’t refute anything I say and you resort to threats.
Those who believe they have a direct line to the Almighty feel superior to others. Religious vocabulary confirms it. Christians have often called themselves “God’s people,” “the chosen people,” “the elect,” “the righteous,” etc., while nonbelievers have been labeled “heathens,” “infidels.” This sets up a two-tiered division of the human race, in which “God’s people” experience delusions of pre-eminence to those who are not “God’s people.”
The vision of heaven of Christianity’s greatest theologian is a vision of the sadistic enjoyment of endless torture.
Hopesome says:
December 28, 2010 at 3:09 am
“Atheistatbirth….. I AM THE BIBLE”
Fanny, did your pastor ever teach you that in 1985 a multi-year investigation was conducted into the historicity of the statements and deeds attributed to Jesus in the New Testament. They concluded that only 18% of the statements and 16% of the deeds attributed to Jesus had a high likelihood of being historically accurate. So, in a very real sense fundamentalists—who claim to believe in the literal truth of the Bible—are not followers of Jesus Christ; rather, they are followers of those who, decades or centuries later, put words in his mouth.
Atheist: Hopesome said – you can’t put new wine in an old wineskin therefore you old fossil ‘ ONE MUST FIRST CLEAN THE VESSEL before bringing in the new wine, ie show the old (marcus lamb, Mr Bentley +) before gifting the new.
Atheist: get your head out of google.com and start thinking for yourself for a change ‘
My dear Fanny …
The old wineskin got all spongy and chock-full of holes from too much prehistoric superstition. These days we use computers and data banks. As long as you continue to claim as fact—without offering a shred of evidence beyond the anecdotal—that physically impossible events occurred, I’ll stick to my data banks. Politeness restrains me from venturing a hint from where you ought to extricate your head.
Allow me to clear things up here Hopesome,
Christianity verses Atheism
Christianity:
The belief that a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree. — unknown
“Religion is the process of unconscious wish fulfillment, where, for certain people, if the process did not take place it would put them in self-danger of coming to mental harm, being unable to cope with the idea of a godless, purposeless life.”
— Sigmund Freud
Atheist:
An Atheist loves his fellow man instead of god. An Atheist believes that heaven is something for which we should work now – here on earth for all men together to enjoy.
An Atheist believes that he can get no help through prayer but that he must find in himself the inner conviction, and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue it and enjoy it.
An Atheist believes that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment.
He seeks to know himself and his fellow man rather than to know a god. An Atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church. An Atheist believes that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said. An Atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty vanquished, war eliminated. He wants man to understand and love man.
He wants an ethical way of life. He believes that we cannot rely on a god or channel action into prayer nor hope for an end of troubles in a hereafter.
He believes that we are our brother’s keepers; and are keepers of our own lives; that we are responsible persons and the job is here and the time is now.
Marina: Atheism is just a label to hang yourself on /with to give yourself a purpose in life, just like all labels are – I prefer to live without them myself ! (Atheism and labels that is)
At the end of the day if all you came for is to spout Atheism, then maybe your atheism god holds you captive just as your ‘christian god did, that you say you broke free from. Freedom Marina is not regurgitating either freud or his fellow man, its rising above them -
Original is not what man is its his desire
In fact Marina I would say you are an antagonist only – something frankly we can all live without in order to have peace enough to seek -
So Hopesome, since you give the appearance that you know it all (yet claim you don’t), what exactly is wrong with what Marina posed as to what an Atheist actually is, label or not? Where the hell is the problem? Because we do things for the here and now and for the betterment of EVERYONE around us, you think it’s a great evil, only because we don’t confess your god?
Personally, I don’t have a problem with it but you obviously do and don’t give enough of a rat’s ass to comment about it. You’d rather just demean everyone here aside from those who whole-heartedly agree with you. This is arrogance and ignorance at its finest.
We are compelled to do what we do for the love of ALL mankind where the same rules apply across the board, without discrimination. You are compelled to do only what you feel is required based on your interpretation of a set of rules from an invisible leader, who is one of the most discriminatory individuals that never existed. You don’t do what you do because of your love of man in the here and now, you do it because you live in a fairy tale and hope to live happily ever after. Perhaps that’s why you use the name of Hopesome. You have hope for some but unlike us “atheists”, you don’t have hope for all.
Properly read the bible is the most potent force for the advancement of atheism known to man.
Most religions prophecy the end of the world and then consistently work together to ensure that these prophecies come true.
– Anonymous
Tim: If you want to help mankind then you have to seek that which is determined to destroy it or ‘turn it into trash for its own sake.
Tim: I don’t work to rules: I RISE ABOVE THEM just like I do idiots who need to quote them – that way I am always one step ahead of their need to trap me in them ! And notice my lack of the need for the human (marina) backup that you require -
Hopesome, I require no backup, I just really appreciate the things around me and some (Marina) are much finer than others.
Still got no answer huh?
My GOD, as you call it, does not leave me inadequate
YOURS DOES
Tim: I seek to secure those things around me not just pat them on the head now and again, and I didn’t get stuck in any place or ‘time wharp’ in the process like you seem to have.
Hopesome, Let’s set a couple of things striaght. Firstly, I don’t have a god even though you like to “think” or “believe” I do. Secondly, history proves your god is quite inadequate, whether you like it or not. Thirdly, Marina and I use our “real” names because our lives are an open book for people to read. Nobody can ever accuse us of being something we are not, such as what you are trying to do. Our lives are on the Internet, free for everyone to read, including you, so perhaps before you go off on your little tangents, you should educate yourself and see if maybe we’ve really been where you are. Sadly, I hate to break it to you, but there are people out there who DO have more experience and knowledge than you have. It may not be us, but then again….
Willful ignorance is one of the biggest sins that exists in the world today! Are you guilty of it?
Fanny.
I have never met anyone who can use so many words to say absolutely nothing.
He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave.
– William Drummond
Mankind has an evil side – if you want peace then you have to overcome its desire to ‘lead’.
Tim: If you had been where I have you would have more than quotes and vitriol to express it
Hopesome, tell me where you’ve been then… Please don’t keep me guessing. As I said, you can read all about us online and we don’t have the slightest clue who you are or where you’ve come from, so I’m sure you can appreciate our apprehension in providing you with the respect and consideration you may so rightfully deserve.
Fanny. I know you have an incontrovertible no response policy which has not gone unnoticed.
Please expand on your own comment about mans evil side. Please compare yourself as as one of gods privileged and myself having no gods. In what way will my evil manifest itself where you will be exempt, and explain how the process works.
Tim: I could say I came from nowhere and ended up being somewhere which would be true. A somewhere I had not bargained for . A journey that started off in good faith ended up losing every particle of it and the hope wrapped in it to such an extent I had to be gifted some. A journey that I have gifted to you all over the course of this time of (bene’s graciousness) blog – My journey was gifted in a personal way though not the one you would like ! perhaps Tim – TOUGH
Fanny I know how much you detest rational thought and logic, but I could not resist this quote as it reminds me of you and JackieV and what your future holds.
Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense.
– Chapman Cohen
“In fact Marina I would say you are an antagonist only – something frankly we can all live without in order to have peace enough to seek -” – Hopesome
No, Hopesome, just separating the sheep from the goats. Now go climb a mountain or something.
Marina, “ewe” are so “b-a-a-a-a-d”… Taking “shear” delight in “ram“ming your “fleece” down little “kids” throats! Your conversation up to this point has been “shofar” so good but now, please, just go “flock” off “beard“fore someone gets a “tend“ency to make “shepherd’s” pie out of you and your “horn” of plenty!!!
I’m sorry, that was a little harsh…. “Wool” you forgive me?
My friends you are clutching at straws –
Atheist: Get a life other than someone elses and live it instead of quoting it!
Tim and Marina: Mix and Match or Miss Match – bit of both I think! Sort out your own backyard before stepping into someone elses and trashing it!
Open you say ‘real names you say’, yeh right – nice try!
It pays to be on step ahead Tim!! and a ‘true warrior’ always is and then some -
Atheist – As for rational thought – when it comes from an irrational mind then back at you buddy -
My time with ‘you all’ is now come to an end – other ‘places’ call and different needs my priority. LOVE should never harbour resentment – bitterness – or hate – IT SHOULD ALWAYS GIFT IT –
Atheist you are left only quoting -
Tim and Marina you are ‘showing your nakedness’ and it can only get more ‘nasty’ unless you work on your own deficits and not ‘throw other peoples to the dogs’ for consumption.
The trial is now over and who came out on top is not the issue only how it was achieved. Dignity failed you – honour failed you – words failed you (and you had to use google. com -what are we coming to !)
Canada its been an experience knowing you and thank you ‘for letting me into your ‘world’ -
Fanny.
I’ve heard you bid farewell before, but like an aging, egotistical actress you cannot resist your stage.
Bless you Hopesome, it’s been a very illuminating time – the Lord go before you and be with you always, until we meet again..
Thanks for contending for the truth Hopesome as one of God’s lambs amidst a flock of ravening wolves and look forward to seeing you in Glory some day (along with my other fellow Christian bloggers I’ve had the pleasure of chatting with over the years via these public forums).
Your input was always appreciated Hopesome, especially when you rose to my defense against the Three Am-Egos (LOL) while many other lambs remained silent.
Multiplied blessings to you and yours!
Jackie V
Hopesome, here’s a little tid-bit from your book… Perhaps some parting words?
“Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall” Prov 16:18
…words you evidently didn’t heed, hey Tim?
And Hopesome is far from falling.
I don’t have to heed them Therese, I could care less about the book and I’m not the one who’s bound by it… As well, there’s quite a difference between pride and confidence. Apparently you can’t distinguish between the two.
I am not bound by a book either, I’m a volunteer..and please note I used the past tense with regard to you, Tim.
Adios for now..
Therese “please note I used the past tense with regard to you, Tim.”
1. the simple past (“Tim said more logical things”)
2. the past progressive (“Tim was saying more logical things”)
3. the past perfect (“Tim had said more intelligent things”)
4. the past perfect progressive (“Tim had been saying more intelligent and logical things”)
Don’t you just LOVE those past tenses? Can’t wait to get into the future tenses!
JackieV “as one of God’s lambs amidst a flock of ravening wolves”
Wolves with feathers – go figure!
Hey – It’s been a quiet day without Fanny. (Silence of the Lambs)
..smart aleck.
Wolves with feathers – in their brains.
Atheist At Birth:
”Ye shall know them by their fruit.”
—————————————————————————–
As I said once before, if arrogance and sarcasm are the fruits of atheism, then give me Christianity ANY DAY !
The thing that strikes me over and over about your posts is….what a WASTE of brain power when you could be putting it toward something constructive like finding a way to stamp out poverty, discovering a cure for cancer, or helping kids with learning disabilities (since you’re so keen on correcting spelling and grammer). I know you’d never waste time praying for such people, so why not actually DO it in reality then !
——————————————————————————
”Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil , as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
Whom resist steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.” 1 Peter 5 : 8-9
JackieV
“what a WASTE of brain power when you could be putting it toward something constructive ”
Misuse of time? What would cause you to presuppose a conclusion like that? This is finger work. – Refuting blind followers of a cult whose god has no answers; who cannot defend or secure himself; is untainted bliss.
Please do continue offering solutions from a primordial and spurious manuscript! Attracts atheists like a flock of wolves.
Speak common sense, exploit and utilize logic, acceptable science, psychology, psychiatry, accredited history, and facts – we become incongruously supportive!
Pastor Paula White of Without Walls Church, Tampa Accused of “Romantic Relationship” and “Extramarital Affair” With Married Real Estate Speaker James Smith in Federal Court Lawsuit
James Smith a married man from Florida, a real estate inevstor, speaker of Get Motivated Seminars, and president of James Smith Company claims that “his privacy was invaded” that “he was tracked by GPS and private information about him was published ” and “information detailing travel itineraries and scheduled flights for James Smith and Paula White” was posted on message boards on the internet and referred to him as the “new boyfriend” of Paula White.
http://www.courthousenews.com/...
Motivational Speaker Says Blogs Defamed Him
By JONNY BONNER
ShareThis
SALT LAKE CITY (CN) – A motivational speaker on the real estate and finance circuit claims he was defamed and his privacy was invaded when he was tracked by GPS and private information about him was published on message boards, with false accusations of extramarital affairs.
James Smith, who speaks for “Get Motivated!” business seminars, sued Elizabeth Arden dba Complaintsboard.com and other website hosts, in Federal Court.
He says the postings also referred to him as the “new boyfriend” of Paula White, calling a motivational speaker and senior pastor of Without Walls International Church in Tampa. She hosts the television show, “Paula White Today.”
One posting stated: “Smith was trying to become Paula White’s third husband in order to take her congregants’ money,” according to the complaint.
Smith claims that one blogger “posted information detailing travel itineraries and scheduled flights for James Smith and Paula White,”
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE – Brad C. Smith, No …
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat – Quick View
Dec 8, 2010 … Smith was trying to become Paula White’s third husband in order to take …On or about 24 June 2010, another user referred to James Smith’s alleged … the Caribbean with a mistress rather than on business, and called James Smith … In response, some of the defamatory and slanderous comments were …
38. On or about 30 May 2010, Complaintsboard users alleged that James Smith and one Paula White are “in a romantic relationship that is adultery for James Smith.
39. On or about 15 June 2010 a Complaintsboard user posted that
“Pastor Paula White of Without Walls and James Smith of James Smith Company are in a relationship that has come to public notice” and accused James Smith of immorality.
49. On or about 7 July 2010, a Complaintsboard user claimed that Paula White and James Smith were “devious”, engaged in an extramarital relationship, and “fleecing believers and investors.”
Xenophilia posted a review entitled “Get Motivated Seminar, Colin Powell, Michael Phelps, others live @ Arco arena”.
http://xenophilius.wordpress.c…/
65. On 22 June 2010, a user called Candy alleged that James Smith is carrying on an extramarital affair with a Pastor Paula White. Candy further alleged travel
itinerary information that would not be available to an individual without access to James Smith’s cell phone.
http://www.courthousenews.com/...
Pastor Paula White of Without Walls Church, Tampa Accused of “Romantic Relationship” and “Extramarital Affair” With Married Real Estate Speaker James Smith in Federal Court Lawsuit
James Smith a married man from Florida, a real estate inevstor, speaker of Get Motivated Seminars, and president of James Smith Company claims that “his privacy was invaded” that “he was tracked by GPS and private information about him was published ” and “information detailing travel itineraries and scheduled flights for James Smith and Paula White” was posted on message boards on the internet and referred to him as the “new boyfriend” of Paula White.
http://www.courthousenews.com/...
Motivational Speaker Says Blogs Defamed Him
By JONNY BONNER
ShareThis
SALT LAKE CITY (CN) – A motivational speaker on the real estate and finance circuit claims he was defamed and his privacy was invaded when he was tracked by GPS and private information about him was published on message boards, with false accusations of extramarital affairs.
James Smith, who speaks for “Get Motivated!” business seminars, sued Elizabeth Arden dba Complaintsboard.com and other website hosts, in Federal Court.
He says the postings also referred to him as the “new boyfriend” of Paula White, calling a motivational speaker and senior pastor of Without Walls International Church in Tampa. She hosts the television show, “Paula White Today.”
One posting stated: “Smith was trying to become Paula White’s third husband in order to take her congregants’ money,” according to the complaint.
Smith claims that one blogger “posted information detailing travel itineraries and scheduled flights for James Smith and Paula White,”
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE – Brad C. Smith, No …
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat – Quick View
Dec 8, 2010 … Smith was trying to become Paula White’s third husband in order to take …On or about 24 June 2010, another user referred to James Smith’s alleged … the Caribbean with a mistress rather than on business, and called James Smith … In response, some of the defamatory and slanderous comments were …
38. On or about 30 May 2010, Complaintsboard users alleged that James Smith and one Paula White are “in a romantic relationship that is adultery for James Smith.
39. On or about 15 June 2010 a Complaintsboard user posted that
“Pastor Paula White of Without Walls and James Smith of James Smith Company are in a relationship that has come to public notice” and accused James Smith of immorality.
49. On or about 7 July 2010, a Complaintsboard user claimed that Paula White and James Smith were “devious”, engaged in an extramarital relationship, and “fleecing believers and investors.”
Xenophilia posted a review entitled “Get Motivated Seminar, Colin Powell, Michael Phelps, others live @ Arco arena”.
http://xenophilius.wordpress.c…/
65. On 22 June 2010, a user called Candy alleged that James Smith is carrying on an extramarital affair with a Pastor Paula White. Candy further alleged travel
itinerary information that would not be available to an individual without access to James Smith’s cell phone.
http://www.courthousenews.com/...