By Rick Hiebert. All Rights Reserved. Used By Permission.
Todd Bentley can minister wherever he choses, says Rick Joyner.
You knew that it was a given that he’d be back on the road, after Todd Bentley announced plans for worldwide missions trips—outside North America, where he would be likely to be asked about his ministry, divorce and various bad things that happened at Lakeland. Bentley, with a new house and his own ministry base, could proceed on his own without Joyner’s approval.
This may be a fait accompli for Joyner. Bentley knows that he can’t wait 5 or 10 years to be “restored”, as the next big revival or two will happen and he will be yesterday’s news. If he wants to be a worldwide evangelist again, he has to go pretty soon, whether Joyner thinks so or not.
We can guess that Joyner is really reluctant to continue with this process and just wants to let Bentley go. Before Monday’s video, the last restoration video that he did was Dec. 14, 2009. Given that the last video was called “We are all in Process”, we can hopefully get some updates on how Bentley’s “process” is coming along.
The latest video was posted Monday August 16.
Bentleys’ restoration was intended to be a three step process. The local ministry, Joyner said, had “spectacular” results. “We were able to verify” that cancer victims were healed, but Joyner offers no further details, at least none that would allow this claim to be independently verified.
At 3:17 of the video, Joyner says:
“…We feel that we’re coming to a time, where it’s time to release him [Bentley] on another level and the next level is where Todd is going to be going outside [the immediate area around the Morningstar headquarters] with those from our ministry team [who] will be accompanying him. And it’s not to watch over him, every little thing he’s doing, he’s a man, not a child, but it’s just to be a watchman and to help, you know, and also to be available to help answer questions to people who may have questions and things like that. But we feel that it is time now to release Todd to other ministries that we want to know him well, we know them well, and there’s real relationship there.”
“During this phase, we’re seeking elders in the church. We’re meeting with, uh, major Christian leaders of international stature, who will, as the final phase, will in council together, determine [that] it’s time now to release Todd into ministry. Now, that’s something where we’re gonna have to trust them, and endure all the intensive questioning and everything else but that’s what we want. We don’t wanna leave a stone unturned, or miss something that cvould later be a trap Todd’s life or anyone else life.”
“Even through the most perfect restoration process, which by the way, every one of us in, you know, and been in, until we have been perfected….We believe these elders of the church are going to bring wisdom and accountability, and challenges, where needed….”
Let’s pause to parse for a moment.
“… And it’s not to watch over him, every little thing he’s doing, he’s a man, not a child…”
I had thought that was due to the fact that he had supposedly no peers to hang out with him at Lakeland that led to his drinking and falling into “adultery” [as his old ministry defined it]. Wouldn’t babysitting him for the time being be something to consider?
“….and also to be available to help answer questions to people who may have questions and things like that…”
Todd Bentley, after many webinars where he fielded questions, is not capable of answering what people might want to know?
I predict that they will be the ones answering questions, not just “helping” Todd with it.
I also bet that they will be on the lookout to stop public rebukes like the one that the Operation Save America folks staged a few months ago.
The “gatekeepers” that will accompany Bentley will also, effectively, stop most local secular press coverage of Bentley as he travels. If they can’t get an interview, or even quotes from Bentley, and are instead are directed to a Joe Bloggs of Morningstar, it’s going to make it harder for an editor wanting to see if Bentley has made amends to do their work. If the editor, say, has a shocking new revelation or local angle on the Bentley story, they might be reduced to “Bentley refused to talk to us”, which leads Christians who don’t give reporters a break to ignore the story.
“But we feel that it is time now to release Todd to other ministries that we want to know him well, we know them well, and there’s real relationship there.”
This is where Joyner gets something back for Morningstar’s grief in doing this. Want access to Bentley? It’s “friends of Morningstar first” And, you will need to become friends with us, even if you approve of Bentley, but not Joyner, to see him work at your church.
Perhaps a variant of the old Hollywood “block booking” system might be used where in order to get the star (Bentley), you will need to give space and time to other Morningstar speakers too.
The worldwide elders part is interesting too…
I remember hearing, many months ago, that noted teacher Jack Deere was supposed to be the “bad cop” of those overseeing the Bentley restoration process. He was going to ask the tough questions and such. Isn’t it interesting that we have never heard from him at all in any of the statements or videos from Morningstar that I have seen?
Did Deere decide to wash his hands of all this? Does he think that there are still things that may disqualify Bentley from ministry? Joyner just introduced Deere as the 800 pound gorilla of this whole process and then…nothing. Hmmm…
The worldwide council might be problematic.
If it winds up being made up of obscure “internationally recognized” people, it will be a bad sign. And if people are “internationally recognized” they may have valid reasons to not want to spend the time to do this.
And, sad to say, would they want to risk hitching their cart to Bentley in case he fails again.
It’s hard to come into someone’s life, if you don’t really know them that well, and confront them.
As I know from my own interview with Bentley—wow, was it nine years ago now—he has been adept at not being entirely truthful. “I misled you,” he said, when I confronted him.
Todd Bentley, if he is unrepentant, could lead his questioners on a merry dance, and bluff his way through, getting that coveted
seal of approval from them.
Joyner continues, starting to talk about how co-operative Todd Bentley has been.
Here’s what I think may be a smoking gun. Do pay attention to it.
At 6:48, Joyner says:
“I was warned by just about everybody about Todd’s manipulation and scheming and everything else that he’s gonna do…Honestly, uh, we all have some of that in us, and you see it throughout the Scriptures, the best in the Scriptures have some of that. Unfortunately, and we’re trying to get rid of it, and it’s not right…. I think it was Todd’s absolute profound honesty and straighforwardness that many people took as manipulation. Crazy as it sounds, when he determined ‘I am getting a divorce’, he wasn’t trying to hide anything. He was being clear, he wasn’t trying to manipulate, and scheme…In his opinion, it was the last straw, it wasn’t going to work… Most people would try to paint the best picture. Todd didn’t do that.”
If Todd continues to have a possible problem with “manipulation and scheming”, as Joyner may be alluding to by saying that everyone has a problem here, isn’t caution wise? “And we’re trying to get rid of it” could either apply to everyone, or is a slip to mean that “we’re trying to get rid of it” in Todd specifically. The former is probably the case though.
Joyner is being disingenuous here. First, it is impossible to hide a divorce and remarriage, so Bentley’s being honest with that is no special virtue. Critics took offense, as they believed that divorce and remarriage is not allowed by the Bible. Any manipulation on Todd’s part would come in the “there’s no hope part…that’s all I could have done”. And given that Shonnah Bentley is now silent, Bentley can be freely manipulative, as there is no “other side” to look at. [She even took the stage at Ignited Church to support her husband, so my verdict is there was lots of hope. A woman who was willing to take him back after the “emotional affair” that caused his first “dark night of the soul” in 2005-2006 is truly longsuffering.]
[By the way, Joyner et. al are still working on that statement that allows divorce and remarriage> Todd’s own version, which sat on Joyner’s desk over a year ago for approval, is still being help. Captain Renaud is appropriately shocked.]
“The best of” people in the Scriptures were guilty of “manipulation and scheming”. Really? Can we have some Biblical citations where the Apostles, say, were guilty of it?
Joyner goes on to say that Bentley is more forthright and forthcoming than his accusers are. May we see him be brutally frank with himself, in depth, to his detriment, where it could hurt his ministry, in public, then? We shall see.
Joyner, at 10:27 adds:
“He [Bentley] may fall six, seven more times. If he does, I don’t care how bad it is ….If he falls, I hope to help him back up again.”
And then later, Joyner pulls out his violin. No “manipulation” of emotions here:
“If it [a major moral fall] happened to your children, and this is how God looks at it. Think about how you would feel if one of your children fell, just really made a mess of their life. Think of how grateful you would be to anyone who really got in and helped them to straighten out, and to get their feet back…”
Restoration is a very laudable thing…but when do you reach the point where you say about Bentley that what has happened in the past means that he shouldn’t be ministering anymore and should get a day job?
Rick Joyner may have good intentions…but does he have good discernment and Biblical wisdom to add to his intent?
Amen, a good word Susan! The whole thing is so upside down from God’s ways. It’s politics, not Christianity.
Rob, you’re overthinking it – let the scripture just speak to you, rather than you applying your own thoughts to it. The whole point is that fruit IS visible and tells us what kind of tree it is (what spirit a person is of in other words – the spirit is invisible but the fruits are not). The fruits are easily seen if your eyes are open – love joy peace patience goodness kindness faithfulness self-control, etc, all these traits are the visible manifestations of the HOLY Spirit, they are evident in a person’s life. If the fruit is good so is the tree, ie of the HolySpirit, but if the fruit is bad we know the tree is bad, ie of another spirit. So simple maybe only a child can receive it.
But maybe you don’t want to believe it because then you would have to come to a conclusion you just don’t want to come to. Fine, you can have it your way or you can have the truth, it’s up to you.
Therese your right – (let the sriptures speak to you etc) to analyze each petal can loose the beauty of the flowers nobility – however to be gifted that place is a whole lot of passion and love in action from a Father of LIFE, LOVE AND HEALING -
Amen, we are smaller than the truth, smaller than God (understatement) yet we want to keep trying to handle and manipulate and dissect the truth, when the truth which is bigger than us is supposed to handle us! And change us! I’m learning a lot these days, not all the details yet (I say hopefully), but I see certain principles more clearly in the scriptures than I used to. When we see God as He really is, and not as we think, we will be like Him. Right now most of us dont see Him as He is yet, only what we have been taught and applied our own carnal mind to. Wow, the minute we are ‘born’ the devil (really man’s and our own mind and carnal nature) is waiting to devour us and we begin to be led away from the truth, which is spiritual, the second we are ‘born’ – but by the grace and mercy of God He has a plan to snatch us to heaven, into spirit, out of reach of this devil. But Lord, you mean I have to lose my mind, I thought I already had!
Todd the Fraud is not and never has been, saved. That is self-evident, he saw the OPPORTUNITY for ca$h from naive Christians and his demons have been around since the flood so they are well aware of human foibles.
Saved, according to the bible, is regeneration, not mouthing words.
At any rate – the bible is clear that once married only death allows for remarriage – unless a spouse departs then the unwilling divorcee is free 1 Cor 7. The guilty party is just that – guilty of adultery and so is the new partner. Read what JESUS said. It is crystal clear. Adultery and promiscuity and sodomy are the new morality. as also Jesus said would mark the end of days.
http://hypertextbook.com/eworld/geocentric.shtml#earthflat
Laws632
Thats what bothers me more than anything that very soon it will all become the norm -
Not all truth is created equal. We shout the things that Jesus whispered and we whisper the things that Jesus shouted. Truth has order. Some truth has more weight than others. The highest truth is love. The highest command is love. You can throw at me all the scriptures you want to try and prove who is wrong and who is right. The scriptures were never meant to be a rule book. I won’t let the scriptures speak to me because they don’t speak, only the Holy Spirit does. There is no life in the scripture without the Spirit.
How many times did Jesus talk about loving your neighbor, showing mercy and forgiveness… more so than anything. Yet we take what he said once or twice and let it override what he constantly spoke of. If Todd is wrong, if he is in sin then I have only one choice: pray for him. In prayer I will learn to love him, in prayer I will learn to forgive him, in prayer I will be able to show mercy towards him. An maybe just maybe, by showing him love and mercy in prayer he will turn from any sin and be used greatly by God. Why would we want him to fall? If you think he isn’t saved, then pray for his repentance! if you think he is saved but living in sin then pray for the Holy Spirit’s conviction! that is your only choice.
I refuse to use the scripture to prove someone else’s sins and faults, because God knows I have enough of my own. I’ll let the holy spirit convict me, and let him convict and deal with Todd. I refuse to play Holy Spirit. You may think I am deceived but that is fine, and if you want to search the scriptures to prove I am deceived than go ahead.
@laws
I went to the link you posted an I am trying to figure out what that has to do with anything we are talking about. Just need some clarity.
Just one thing I found interesting regarding the scripture in joshua about the sun standing still. If you read history and understand the views of science at the time this scripture was written, you would understand why it says the sun stood still. The view of the universe put forth by most scientist at the time was a geocentric one, meaning they thought the earth was the center of the universe and everything revolved around it. Modern discovery and science has prove that our universe is a heliocentric one, with the sun as the center and the various planets rotating around it.
They thought the sun stood still because they thought the sun moved, when in reality the earth stopped moving. Just more evidence that not everything in the Bible is absolute truth. Much of what we read has to be taken in the context of when and where it was written.
re “We shout the things that Jesus whispered and we whisper the things that Jesus shouted.”
Uh, and just how would YOU know “the things that Jesus whispered and the things Jesus shouted”?
And your “statement of faith” pretty much tells all of where you’re coming from!
“I won’t let the scriptures speak to me because they don’t speak, only the Holy Spirit does.”
Wow. You are inculcated with the NAR doctrine! “The word is dead.” AKA antinomianism: anti-authority. What does the bible say about that?
1Co 15:3,4 “For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures”.
The carnal mind hates the word of God. Why? Co 2:14 “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. ”
————-
This is how the NAR people operate: they channel evil spirits who cater to the sensual mode of people. Lots of flash etc. This is why Todd aka worldly got wall-to-wall tattoos and piercings. He wants everbody’s attention. AKA an ENERTAINER [entertainTer]. Also, the same “dead” word which you refuse, has a lot to say about Christians being GOD’S temple and you don’t belong to yourself anymore. Too, 1John is a great source for worldly identification/fads etc.
@laws
let me clarify: I won’t let the scriptures speak to me in and of themselves. I must have the guidance of the Holy Spirit when reading them. “The letter kills but the Spirit gives life.” The Bible was written with the intention that those who read it would be under the influence of the Holy Spirit. When you are not, they are just words.
@Laws
yes exactly the carnal mind hates the things of God. We cannot receive his Word with our carnal minds, that is why we need the Spirit. Only our spirit can we receive the things of His spirit. Reading the Bible with a carnal mind leads to a lot of problems!
I just read your post. You do know that the bible and secularism are contrary? The amount of continual brainwashing is for a purpose: to discredit the bible. The sun indeed rises and sets, just as Psalm 19 says …. 4-6 “He has set a tabernacle for the sun, Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoices as a strong man to run a race. Its going forth is from the end of the heaven, and the circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof. ” Look at the UN official flag. It is an ancient true map of the world. Faith in the Word is the issue. Jesus said if we had faith we could move a literal mountain. Satan does not want us to know that kind of faith so brainwashed “scientists” say evolution, false history etc are true bc the only alternative is that God’s word is true, and a literal Hell awaits all deniers!
“The letter kills but the Spirit gives life.”
Yes, Paul (ex-pharisee) and Jesus were referring to the talmud which the pharisees equated with the true word of God. They had while in Babylon drafted a new set of doctrine, Jesus condemned the talmud in Mt 15.
GOD gave Moses the Commands. The Spirit gave the prophets the tanach. The letter was not the God-breathed word, it was a counterfeit bible which the clerics taught from.
@Laws
so u are saying that the sun moves not the earth? seriously??
Rob, in all friendliness, I can see that your mind is still trying to squirm away from accepting that yes, we can know them by their fruits, and that bad fruit really and truly does indicate a bad tree. I agree that some truths are more important than others, however, there isn’t one truth more true than any other truth – all truth is true and there are no greater or lesser degrees of truth. ‘You shall know them by their fruits’ doesn’t negate the law of Love.
Maybe I could put it this way: We can tell by his fruits the kind of love that someone like Todd Bentley needs – and that would be for all his fans to go away and stop sending him money and let God bring him back to reality and discipline him as a son, if he is a son. At the very least his branches badly need pruning. If he isn’t a son then lets stop sheltering him from the trials of life that God can use to bring him to Jesus, to wake up to his need of Him.
Let’s not forget the most important side of the equation: this too is love, that the Father wants to protect HIS sheep from eating the poisonous fruit. It’s not all about Todd Bentley, what about the sheep?
It is very unpopular to believe what the Bible says vs nasa/cia/cnn/hollywood. How could Jesus ascend in Acts or return and “every eye will see Him”?
http://www.beyondtopsecret.com/Fire_From_Sky_6.html
Henry has a good take on science ..http://www.henrymakow.com/freud_sabbatean.html
@Therese
I don’t see bad fruits. I don’t consider Todd’s sin or failings to be “bad fruits.” Todd is one many, God is a lot bigger. We need to focus on what God is saying and doing not what Todd is saying or doing.
Henry
http://www.henrymakow.com/freud_sabbatean.html
@ laws
You sound like a conspiracy theorist.
I agree that much of science, medicine and government is corrupt. Much of it due to money and certain agenda’s. You can’t trust the media either. You can’t always believe what you hear.
I can’t explain “how” everyone is going to see Christ when he returns. That doesn’t provide evidence that the world is flat. You are discrediting science but on the other hand you are trying to use it to prove facts in the Bible.
Again I go back to our false idea of what scripture is for. It is a means not an end. The main purpose of the scripture is to point to Jesus. If we read the Bible with any other focus we will go down the wrong path. The Bible is all God, but not all of God is in the Bible. He is much much bigger than our minds can even comprehend. Furthermore, I can know all about God by reading the Bible, but I can still not know Him. The bible is merely knowledge, and knowledge without the Spirit brings death. We are called to have a real living experience with a living God. The scripture points us there. It is a sign that points to Him. If I see a sign on the highway that says “Mcdonalds 5 miles” I don’t stop at the sign and be content with that. No I go to where the sign points. If the scripture doesn’t lead to EXPERIENCE than it is pointless. If all our bible study, memorization, and facts about God do not lead us to an actual experience with Him than it is useless.
re conspiracy theorist. That is an oxymoronic phrase. Open a dictionary. The bible is true, Joshua DID have the sun stopped. Stars are relatively small and very close to earth. One day you will see the Bible is true – just as God flooded earth above the highest mountains. Until you see the book of Revelation come to pass your tv/star trek addled mind cannot get around what it has been programmed with “truth”. http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.0
Well I agree with you about the carnal mind Rob, and right now your arguments are from your own mind and they hold no water with the Spirit. The way to deal with the carnal mind is through suffering, the cross – that’s what it means to follow Jesus, I might as well say it, the way to resurrection life is through hell.
@Therese
How would you know that what I am saying is only from my mind. Everything I say is my own personal conviction based out my relationship with Jesus. In my Spirit I know it to be true. Our mind must work in conjunction with our spirit. Our spirit receives from the Holy Spirit and our mind must process what is revealed for understanding. It works the other way too. We can hear something in our mind but not understand it with our spirit. Both must work together.
If you only knew the amount of “suffering” I have been through in my life. It has taught me so much. This is just a blog, and what we say are just words. it is not easy to express in words what is our heart in in our spirit. We can try though.
@laws
my tv/star trek mind? are you insulting me? The Bible is truth, all of it. The problem is when we try to form truth by bits and pieces. These are those who build their house on the sand, as opposed to build our houses on the Rock (Jesus). Sand are bits and pieces of rock. When we take one scripture or passage and attempt to build an entire doctrine or ministry out of it, it is wrong. When you read the Bible just by the literal words and take it out of the context with which it was written, it is easy to find many “errors.” We are told to “honor our father and mother.” but Jesus said if you don’t hate your father and mother you can’t be His disciple. Taken literally, one would not know which to believe. But if you dig deeper and understand what Jesus was saying, you will see what he means.
Just like in Joshua, according to their view, the sun did stop. If you take this by the literal words you will be confused because modern science has proven that the sun is stationary, so how can something stop that doesn’t move? If they thought that the sun rotated around the earth, and they looked up and saw the sun staying in its position then naturally they will conclude that the sun stopped. But if they had known what we know now that the sun doesn’t move, but the earth moves around the sun, they would have said the earth stopped. Either way it was a miracle of God.
If you think the point of the story is to say that the sun moves, not the earth then you are missing so much.
here is another fallacy that many may not know: the “rooster” that “crowed” three times before Peter’s denial was not a rooster, as in a chicken. it was a man, who was in charge of calling all the priests and worshippers to wake for their daily tasks. Talk about “lost in translation.” Chickens were not even allowed inside Jerusalem during temple times because they were considered very dirty.
@ Laws
And we will all know when Jesus returns because he will be on CNN and foxnews
yes the antichrist who the deceived elijah list groupies worship SHALL appear. The earth is flat get over it. And yourself!
@laws
i was kidding. If the earth is flat why hasn’t anyone fallen off? where is the edge? are all the pictures from space fabricated? I mean seriously use some common sense. There are laws of nature. God created these laws.
“Chickens were not even allowed inside Jerusalem during temple times because they were considered very dirty”
lol
from which source do you get all this crap?
it was a Jewish custom at the time, several Jews who know their history have told me so. Plus if you look up the verse about the rooster crowing in the original Hebrew translation, you will know that the “cockcrow” had nothing to do with a rooster.
If you have ever been around live chickens you will know how dirty they are and how much they roam around. The priest in the temple were afraid of chickens wandering into the tent and the Holy of Holies.
I’m sorry to hear about your trials, Rob, and I pray sincerely the cross will have its way in your life..all I know is people are developing a very great tolerance for the growing sin and debauchery in the church and the bar is getting set lower and lower. It’s time to give our head a shake and wake up.
Lot could have stood around sympathizing with Sodom, and philosophising to God about forgiveness and mercy and human frailty and imperfection until it was too late and the sulphur rained down, but when the time came for the INEVITABLE consequences of sin it was smarter to turn his back on that place with all its corruption and get as far away as possible.
@Therese
The cross can always go deeper. It can be painful but it is worth it. I agree of the growing tolerance of sin. I’ve seen many things occur in the name of “freedom” that are wrong. We do need to wake up. We all need to look at ourselves and allow the Holy Spirit to cleanse us daily so that nothing unholy remains. In the process of dealing with others and their own sin we must keep on the eyes of love and look to restore all who are fallen. This doesn’t mean we overlook the sin, it means we help them to deal with it and overcome it. With Todd I see two extremes. People who want to just forget what happened and overlook it and those who want to punish Him and banish him from ministry. The truth lies somewhere in the middle. We need to seek God and know what His will is.
Therese is right the bar is being set far to low’ -
@Hope
guess we will all be doing the Limbo pretty soon? ; )
Gods will is that we know truth -
By sharing our beliefs on Todd we shall hopefully get there ! Whether we can accept those findings is another matter –
Everybody wants redemption so we can be vulnerable to those that play on that – Todd enjoys himself – Jason hypes up the audience like a ‘warm up comedian’ and then Todd brings on the starbucks – Am I in a cinema or a church, popcorn next is it………..
Wheres the reverance
@Hope
I like Jason, hes real down to earth and fun. And who says we can’t have fun in church. There are times for feasting and times for fasting. Ironically there is much more feasting in the Word.
The Bible does say that anytime a sinner repents all of heaven rejoices. I can’t think of day on earth where at least one person wasn’t saved…Must be a constant party up in heaven.
Jason has what we call the gift of the gab…………….. he sells Jesus
I am not opposed to fun but there is a time and a place for it………… They need a healthy dose of ‘fear of the lord’……….. he has become far to ‘familiar’ to them, they lack reverence of him and for him,
Don’t turn church into an entertainment camp and remember ‘ok we’re going to take an offering’ and the jargon just flows doesn’t it, it amazes me how the bible justifies ‘pay up and look happy time’ Jason is a Genius at that
@Hope
I have seen and been to hundreds of meetings many of which there was a strong sense of the Lord’s presence and reverence for Him. Not everytime is “happy” time. You can’t produce “fear of the Lord.” When any group, large or small, gets together to Worship God it is important to allow the Lord to do what he wants. he may move corporately or individually. Different people will come away with different things. Some may need his fear, some may need is joy, some just a quiet touch. Other times the Lord mores more broadly in a spirit of healing, salvation etc.
While it may appear to you that Jason is trying to “sell” jesus, I assure you He is not. There’s nothing wrong with trying to make giving fun. God loves a cheerful giver does he not? I’d rather have him be happy about it then get up there and scare people into giving to the Lord.
Jason appeals to ………….. appeals ; End of story
The prosperity gospel has lost in its propserity the Fathers
You don’t ‘call down a fear of the lord’ or expect it to visit church camp’ you should walk with a ‘HEALTHY FEAR OF THE LORD’. ie; respect, respect, respect, If Jesus walked in would you hand him a starbucks or would you bow in reverence…………. and don’t dare say both …………..
I have seen him enter in wrath a church that was bordering on the lack of respect we are witnessing. The pastor was humiliated – literally because thats what it took to get him to respect who was boss., don’t assume Jesus enjoys popcorn
@hope
walking in the fear of the Lord doesn’t mean we get all serious, hang our head down low and tremble… fear of the Lord is simply trusting in Him, wanting to obey and follow Him over everything else. He wants us to enjoy Him just like He enjoys us. Worship isn’t just bowing down in reverence, it is honoring Him in all that we do… even eating popcorn.
Mock as you will rob
how am I mocking? because I want to enjoy the Lord, for in whose presence there is FULLNESS of Joy?
You have never witnessed his wrath -
The pastor I spoke of had his assumptions taken of who he thought he was dealing with……………… I visited that church recently and the Father had removed his grace……….. He means business – and objects to the church being run as one.
Jer 15:17 I sat not in the assembly of the mockers, nor rejoiced; I sat alone because of thy hand: for thou hast filled me with indignation.
Jud 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
Wow, Todd and his friends are confusing freedom with terrible presumption! But God is not mocked!
Time to grow up and put these childish ways behind you Rob or else He is coming with a whip!
Fear of the Lord is whaaat?!… didn’t He say, this is the one I esteem, he who trembles at my word? And this is the one you should fear?..He who can destroy both body and soul in hell?
And i am glad that I won’t have to… thank God that His son Jesus took the punishment for me and that I am saved from wrath!
Listen to yourselves. Seriously.
When the Lord removes his grace then you tremble……………………
wish I could be so sure for your sake Rob, it looks as though the Jesus you have is not the same Jesus I know – the one that Todd has sold you is a fake, a cheap counterfeit. some kind of Santa Claus in the sky.
the jesus I know hung on a cross and suffered and bled for me, He paid an awful price, somehow when I think of Him I dont’ feel like throwing a party. Don’t think the Father has forgotten the terrible cost either. when you do it makes him angry, make no mistake.