By Rick Hiebert. All Rights Reserved. Used By Permission.
Todd Bentley can minister wherever he choses, says Rick Joyner.
You knew that it was a given that he’d be back on the road, after Todd Bentley announced plans for worldwide missions trips—outside North America, where he would be likely to be asked about his ministry, divorce and various bad things that happened at Lakeland. Bentley, with a new house and his own ministry base, could proceed on his own without Joyner’s approval.
This may be a fait accompli for Joyner. Bentley knows that he can’t wait 5 or 10 years to be “restored”, as the next big revival or two will happen and he will be yesterday’s news. If he wants to be a worldwide evangelist again, he has to go pretty soon, whether Joyner thinks so or not.
We can guess that Joyner is really reluctant to continue with this process and just wants to let Bentley go. Before Monday’s video, the last restoration video that he did was Dec. 14, 2009. Given that the last video was called “We are all in Process”, we can hopefully get some updates on how Bentley’s “process” is coming along.
The latest video was posted Monday August 16.
Bentleys’ restoration was intended to be a three step process. The local ministry, Joyner said, had “spectacular” results. “We were able to verify” that cancer victims were healed, but Joyner offers no further details, at least none that would allow this claim to be independently verified.
At 3:17 of the video, Joyner says:
“…We feel that we’re coming to a time, where it’s time to release him [Bentley] on another level and the next level is where Todd is going to be going outside [the immediate area around the Morningstar headquarters] with those from our ministry team [who] will be accompanying him. And it’s not to watch over him, every little thing he’s doing, he’s a man, not a child, but it’s just to be a watchman and to help, you know, and also to be available to help answer questions to people who may have questions and things like that. But we feel that it is time now to release Todd to other ministries that we want to know him well, we know them well, and there’s real relationship there.”
“During this phase, we’re seeking elders in the church. We’re meeting with, uh, major Christian leaders of international stature, who will, as the final phase, will in council together, determine [that] it’s time now to release Todd into ministry. Now, that’s something where we’re gonna have to trust them, and endure all the intensive questioning and everything else but that’s what we want. We don’t wanna leave a stone unturned, or miss something that cvould later be a trap Todd’s life or anyone else life.”
“Even through the most perfect restoration process, which by the way, every one of us in, you know, and been in, until we have been perfected….We believe these elders of the church are going to bring wisdom and accountability, and challenges, where needed….”
Let’s pause to parse for a moment.
“… And it’s not to watch over him, every little thing he’s doing, he’s a man, not a child…”
I had thought that was due to the fact that he had supposedly no peers to hang out with him at Lakeland that led to his drinking and falling into “adultery” [as his old ministry defined it]. Wouldn’t babysitting him for the time being be something to consider?
“….and also to be available to help answer questions to people who may have questions and things like that…”
Todd Bentley, after many webinars where he fielded questions, is not capable of answering what people might want to know?
I predict that they will be the ones answering questions, not just “helping” Todd with it.
I also bet that they will be on the lookout to stop public rebukes like the one that the Operation Save America folks staged a few months ago.
The “gatekeepers” that will accompany Bentley will also, effectively, stop most local secular press coverage of Bentley as he travels. If they can’t get an interview, or even quotes from Bentley, and are instead are directed to a Joe Bloggs of Morningstar, it’s going to make it harder for an editor wanting to see if Bentley has made amends to do their work. If the editor, say, has a shocking new revelation or local angle on the Bentley story, they might be reduced to “Bentley refused to talk to us”, which leads Christians who don’t give reporters a break to ignore the story.
“But we feel that it is time now to release Todd to other ministries that we want to know him well, we know them well, and there’s real relationship there.”
This is where Joyner gets something back for Morningstar’s grief in doing this. Want access to Bentley? It’s “friends of Morningstar first” And, you will need to become friends with us, even if you approve of Bentley, but not Joyner, to see him work at your church.
Perhaps a variant of the old Hollywood “block booking” system might be used where in order to get the star (Bentley), you will need to give space and time to other Morningstar speakers too.
The worldwide elders part is interesting too…
I remember hearing, many months ago, that noted teacher Jack Deere was supposed to be the “bad cop” of those overseeing the Bentley restoration process. He was going to ask the tough questions and such. Isn’t it interesting that we have never heard from him at all in any of the statements or videos from Morningstar that I have seen?
Did Deere decide to wash his hands of all this? Does he think that there are still things that may disqualify Bentley from ministry? Joyner just introduced Deere as the 800 pound gorilla of this whole process and then…nothing. Hmmm…
The worldwide council might be problematic.
If it winds up being made up of obscure “internationally recognized” people, it will be a bad sign. And if people are “internationally recognized” they may have valid reasons to not want to spend the time to do this.
And, sad to say, would they want to risk hitching their cart to Bentley in case he fails again.
It’s hard to come into someone’s life, if you don’t really know them that well, and confront them.
As I know from my own interview with Bentley—wow, was it nine years ago now—he has been adept at not being entirely truthful. “I misled you,” he said, when I confronted him.
Todd Bentley, if he is unrepentant, could lead his questioners on a merry dance, and bluff his way through, getting that coveted
seal of approval from them.
Joyner continues, starting to talk about how co-operative Todd Bentley has been.
Here’s what I think may be a smoking gun. Do pay attention to it.
At 6:48, Joyner says:
“I was warned by just about everybody about Todd’s manipulation and scheming and everything else that he’s gonna do…Honestly, uh, we all have some of that in us, and you see it throughout the Scriptures, the best in the Scriptures have some of that. Unfortunately, and we’re trying to get rid of it, and it’s not right…. I think it was Todd’s absolute profound honesty and straighforwardness that many people took as manipulation. Crazy as it sounds, when he determined ‘I am getting a divorce’, he wasn’t trying to hide anything. He was being clear, he wasn’t trying to manipulate, and scheme…In his opinion, it was the last straw, it wasn’t going to work… Most people would try to paint the best picture. Todd didn’t do that.”
If Todd continues to have a possible problem with “manipulation and scheming”, as Joyner may be alluding to by saying that everyone has a problem here, isn’t caution wise? “And we’re trying to get rid of it” could either apply to everyone, or is a slip to mean that “we’re trying to get rid of it” in Todd specifically. The former is probably the case though.
Joyner is being disingenuous here. First, it is impossible to hide a divorce and remarriage, so Bentley’s being honest with that is no special virtue. Critics took offense, as they believed that divorce and remarriage is not allowed by the Bible. Any manipulation on Todd’s part would come in the “there’s no hope part…that’s all I could have done”. And given that Shonnah Bentley is now silent, Bentley can be freely manipulative, as there is no “other side” to look at. [She even took the stage at Ignited Church to support her husband, so my verdict is there was lots of hope. A woman who was willing to take him back after the “emotional affair” that caused his first “dark night of the soul” in 2005-2006 is truly longsuffering.]
[By the way, Joyner et. al are still working on that statement that allows divorce and remarriage> Todd’s own version, which sat on Joyner’s desk over a year ago for approval, is still being help. Captain Renaud is appropriately shocked.]
“The best of” people in the Scriptures were guilty of “manipulation and scheming”. Really? Can we have some Biblical citations where the Apostles, say, were guilty of it?
Joyner goes on to say that Bentley is more forthright and forthcoming than his accusers are. May we see him be brutally frank with himself, in depth, to his detriment, where it could hurt his ministry, in public, then? We shall see.
Joyner, at 10:27 adds:
“He [Bentley] may fall six, seven more times. If he does, I don’t care how bad it is ….If he falls, I hope to help him back up again.”
And then later, Joyner pulls out his violin. No “manipulation” of emotions here:
“If it [a major moral fall] happened to your children, and this is how God looks at it. Think about how you would feel if one of your children fell, just really made a mess of their life. Think of how grateful you would be to anyone who really got in and helped them to straighten out, and to get their feet back…”
Restoration is a very laudable thing…but when do you reach the point where you say about Bentley that what has happened in the past means that he shouldn’t be ministering anymore and should get a day job?
Rick Joyner may have good intentions…but does he have good discernment and Biblical wisdom to add to his intent?
Todd hasn’t sold me anything… i knew Jesus long before Todd. I haven’t even listen to Todd very much in over a year, so don’t accuse me of following him like a sheep and believe everything he says. I test what i hear with what i know in my spirit. If its wrong I throw it out. Just like with any minister of God.
Don’t pronounce judgement on me or anyone else because we don’t see eye to eye. By pronouncing God’s judgement on someone else you are pronouncing it on you and it will be a lot worse than what you think will happen to Todd or his “followers”
Well said Therese, I think its falling on deaf ears in Robs case.
Deaf ears? Just because i don’t agree with you doesn’t mean I have deaf ears. I hear and weigh everything you have said. But i guess u are right and I am wrong. good grief
Indeed not agreeing does not mean you have deaf ears – but your missing the point the whole time – Your playing safe –
It comes across as; It’s ok I’m saved, No problem I’m saved, I’ll be fine I’m saved… Oh God can deal with it …….. Right then no problem ‘now where were we’, I’m saved – You may think your saved but that doesn’t mean you don’t need zapping from time to time. That pastor thought he was ‘saved’. Jesus showed him otherwise.
@Hope
You are putting words in my mouth. Yes i am saved and I am so thankful for Jesus Christ has done for me. But never I have I said that it stops there. My goal is to grow in the knowledge and stature of the fullness of Christ. Yes I need discipline I need correction, we all do. I must allow the cross to work on me and the Holy Spirit to search me and try me. I welcome his correction and discipline. I want to learn everyday from Him. If I am wrong on certain things then I trust His Spirit for conviction and correction. People can tell me where I am wrong and need correction, but if I don’t have the conviction of the Spirit then I can’t fix it anyway.
Ok Rob;
Glad to know your not going to get layed back about it all
Rob;
and take Jesus for granted!
of course I don’t take Him for granted… i desire to follow Him with everything I have and am… its not easy to get there as it requires a painful killing of all flesh… day by day
He’s not a crutch. I don’t think I can do what I want and just expect forgiveness every time i sin…i am thankful for his Blood but I don’t use it an excuse to live how I want
Rob: I’m glad – No disrespect but don’t get sucked in to the ‘happy clappers’ its to easy – when he has showed you his heart and taken yours then you worship for the both of you……. God Bless
Speak to you later – its 3 in the morning here !
@Hope
Thanks. Believe me I know that it is not about feeling good and feeling happy. I shy away from anything that emphasizes emotion over real experience that goes deeper than our feelings. We need God’s heart and his heart is more than just happiness and joy. We need to know what brings him joy and also what brings him hurt and sadness. My prayer is “Break my heart with that which breaks Yours!” I want to laugh what he laughs at and cry with what he cries at. Nothing more, nothing less.
Wow 3am, u must be in England/Europe.
England – good night
Rob – the “hundreds of meeetings” you have attended – had hands laid on how many times? And by who? And what was transferred? Fire tunnels? Yep, believe me, it’s going to take a lot of deliverance to rid yourself of all your invisible “friends”.
Ask God to open your eyes – they are hideous. This is why the BIBLE says the laying on of hands is to be carefully dealt with. Satan knows Todd channels for him.
———–
And the story of the cock crowing thrice is in ALL 4 gospels – a rare occurence, the word alektor means a chicken, not some PERSON calling the (muslims) to dawn prayer. Some person saying it was not a rooster is a liar. According to your (false) teachers, the bible does not say what is plainly true, but is a gnostic puzzle which the “anointed” reveal. By “rhema” vs logos I bet.
This is the heresy of the Nicolaitanes which Jesus cursed in Revelation.
I’m not sure if it’s anywhere in scripture, but I’ve been around hen houses. When a rooster crows, it will usually indicate the time of day. Rooster’s have the knack to crow at the dawn of the day. Which will indicated that Jesus was with the religious political leaders all night.
@laws
The priest in question was known as the Temple Crier, and he was called ‘alektor’ in Greek, which can either be a ‘cock’ or ‘man’ (cock is Gever in Hebrew). ‘Alektor’ here was incorrectly assumed to be the ‘cock’ or ‘rooster’ instead of the Priestly Temple Crier. It was his obligation to rouse all the Priests, Levites, and worshippers and call them to begin their preparations for the morning sacrifice service. In the stillness of the early morning, sound carries well and since the palace of the High Priest was within a very short walk from the Temple, it was the Temple Crier’s cry that was heard in the courtyard where Y’shua was being questioned and not the cock/rooster. Josephus, Josephus was a Jewish historian who lived circa 37-100 AD. His Hebrew name was Joseph ben Mattathias, and he received an excellent education in Jerusalem. After leading a failed revolt of the Jewish forces against Rome, Josephus was captured and became a Roman citizen. He served as pensioner of several Flavian emperors and is most widely known by the name he then acquired, Flavius Josephus., confirms this by stating that no chickens were allowed inside Jerusalem’s walls at all as they flew into the Temple and defiled the Temple.
Ive had hands laid on me numerous times when I needed or wanted prayer. No one ever forced their hands on me. The laying on of hands is scriptural and effective. I have also had hands laid on my by a person that didn’t feel right in my Spirit. I just didn’t make any agreements with it and moved on.
Rob,
Would you please tell me where you found the information on “alektor” and “Gever”? I have never read or been taught this. Thanks
Theres truth in what Laws632 says about the laying on of hands – Its not always ‘the Father ‘ ‘who comes to heal’! If its the enemy then you can end up cursed not blessed.
matthew 12:22-37
When Mr Bentley ‘heals’ generally speaking, he lays on hands prays and then moves on – some people ‘fall down’ – we take it , for the most part, for granted that that is a sign of Jesus /the Father – From our interpretations of the biblical passages comes our basis for such an assumption……….. I never assume – Neither should you…………. Todds methods are from a place of ‘partial’ – Unless you are totally clean then you can be open to ……… spirits that are not so friendly…………
Discernment is a gift that the church is in great need of especially now……..
There are two sides to the battle for our hearts and minds – One good and one not so good. When I am in doubt I ask for clarity, wisdom, and insight always – too know both sides you have to witness both sides otherwise you are not truth – If the Father takes you into enemy territory to witness then only if you have his protection do you come out totally without a trace of ‘hells’ leftovers !
His grace, witnessed by us now, is merely a sample of whats on offer.
@Susan
I posted several links and i think the moderator removed them…ill wait a bit and try reposting
With regard to the rooster crowing; when I was in Israel, the roosters started crowing at 3am; which according to our Israeli host would have indicated a changing of the guard.
Rob,
I found some information about the “cock crowing”. I enjoyed reading about it. I really love the history of The Bible. Have a blessed night.
Todd and his lieing buddies always like to lead astray with esoteric ear-tickling LIES. They cannot preach the Word so they resort to parlor tricks and secret knowledge ie: roosters mean priests etc. Susan: do not be sucked into that “hidden knowledge” crap. The word in Greek means “rooster” and not “crier” or priest etc. That is all fiction. I have the books of Josephus and also know ancient Greek.
Rob: Matthew 12??? What?
And, the name of Jesus IS Jesus – NOT the insult fake name …. “I guess that Christians and Muslims will be shocked and outraged to find out that Yesh’u (??”?), the Hebrew name for Jesus, is an abbreviation that corresponds to the “May his name and memory be blotted out”*, an expression used for deceased enemies of the Jewish people like Hitler and Stalin. In the Hebraic culture, Jesus, the kindest of all people, the son of God, is regarded as the ultimate enemy.
http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/the-crucifixion-of-kindness-by-gilad-atzmon.html.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshu
I believe the correct Aramaic name of Jesus is iYah-sha or aiYah-sha. That means “aiYah -saves”. There was only one vowel in the true ancient Herew/Aramaic “A”. Ie: Adam, Ave (Eve), Cain, Abal (Abel), Aenach (Enoch), Na-ah (Noah), Ham, Japhath, Sha-am (Shem), Avraham, Sara etc. King Davad, Bathshava, Salaman. FYI.
The practice of these simonry “messianic” types is to mislead people that the Bible is mistranslated. God watches over his word, and these “messianic” creeps with their gnostic superiority always try to belittle the simple truths of the bible. Shofar blowing, keeping done-away-with feasts, “Holy”land trips/junkets! Special “seasons”, observing “times”, are all forbidden in Galatians. born again Christians are the Israel (which means Prince/Son of God – which the church is) of God !!!
Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but A NEW CREATURE.
Gal 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy – upon the Israel of God.
@Susan
Yes i love the history too. I think there are a lot of other things we are mistaken about regarding certain facts… a lot of it has to do with translation
History is a good thing providing you ‘just pass through it and don’t get stuck there’ -
Our pastor at our Monday night meetings studied theology for 8 years and can read greek. He does not even require us to call him by a title. It’s fun to listen to him. He takes great strains to use correct translations. It took us around 5 weeks just to study a couple of verses in Phillipians. Sounds tedious, but just the contrary. He is a storehouse of information. We appreciate his dedication to teach the pure word of God to us.
Susan I enjoy history too – I have walked with it my whole life, and I also can be captivated by someone who’s passion sits there – in the end though mans words and ways weren’t enough – I asked him to take me to his place AND WE MOVED ON – There is so much to learn it was the only way I could be certain of his truth and interpretations and in one evening you can span the universe with him – I was impatient for MORE and so daily we journey in him and for him and of him in his time and place not mine – Todd has no idea what he is missing……….. he got captivated and elevated by a different kind of wealth …………… His loss should not be ‘yours’ or ours – Shalom and ‘god bless
I understand Hopesome.
It’s the teachers at our church who have helped me to stay in check about false teaching. I can see examples of good characters in them. They care about the body of Jesus Christ.
Once a week we will meet at someone’s home. We will pray and eat a potluck dinner. Then, we sing and learn from God’s word. It’s fun to taste the different dishes from other cultures. We have many cultures in our church.
I see and feel such a peace with our church family. Leader’s who are there for us. You can see when someone really cares.
Todd is missing the point when he stands up to preach. Other’s who allow him to do it are too. How can Todd Bentley help others, when he could not help himself? (Just one of the many questions I ask myself.)
Todd likes to think ‘he has it ‘sussed’ and the danger is that we believe him … People can get cosy in a ‘warm environment’ ‘and end up falling ‘asleep’, I have a local church that has that problem, they get easily satisfied and comfortable and lose the plot’ – we are creatures of habit also and like to ‘nest’ ourselves somewhere – some churches make that easy to do.
“History” lol. He who controls the past controls the future. I read “history” with a critical view – not from what we have been brainwashed.
Case in point: 70 AD Jerusalem was 100% eradicated – Just as Jesus said it would be. The only structure left standing was the Roman fort. These (fake) theological “historians” spin tall tales. Titus bulldozed the entire area – they had such machines for construction/destruction. The sites today are fiction for the gullible tourists. And a rooster is what “crowed” not as rob et al erroneously says.
Todd Bentley has tapped into the unexplainable, by a natural law that has been set up. He goes beyond what anyone can see or hear in the natural human being. These things can seem quite real and especially appealing to many. He appears to take things to the extreme. He looks for the signs and wonders. He believes he has this great supernatual ability, that he is chosen and God will work healings through him.
Like a pastor told the church during Lakeland, be careful. It’s was good counsel. I pray the same for others not to trust him, just because he says it’s so. After all, look what happened at Lakeland and now at Morningstar.
There is no time in God’s eyes. Time is an earthly invention. God lives in the past, present and future. Time is like a train running through heaven and God can get on at any time.
TB and astral travel. of course it is real, witches do it all the time. There IS a different dimension for us Christians to LEGALLY enjoy. We can access the throne of God at will.
My verse for today is Hebrews 4:16 Therefore let us come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.”
We travel to the throne by faith. We can obtain help, but we can ALSO meet the Father there.
1.The Holy Spirit’s ministry is to reveal the Son: John 16:7 But I tell you the truth, it is expedient for you that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Comforter will not come to you. But if I depart, I will send Him to you. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
2. The Son then reveals the Father: Mat 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
——————
This is NOT in theory; if and when Jesus chooses to show the Father, He will.
This is NOT “doctrinal w/o proof”. This is a holy event where the Christian actually begins to know the Father personally.
There is no time in God’s eyes. Time is an earthly invention. Time is like a train running through heaven and God can get on at any time.”
What nonesense. The whole Bible is based on TIME. God transcends time, but it is His creation: Heb 1:1 God, who at many times and in many ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the EONS.”
And saying “God can hop on a train” is pretty mickey mouse. You have no idea who and what God is.
@laws
I guess you know everything…my bad
@laws
“the whole Bible is based on time”
Yes, but all of God is not based in the Bible. He is much bigger than a book. While everything in the Bible is God, we know very little about Him than from just a book. It says it will take all of eternity from us to come anywhere close to a knowledge of God. Our human minds cannot even fathom the depths of Him.
When you are in him you lose time – it has no stronghold in your ‘life’ your life isn’t ruled by it – you transend its place of limitation in your life.
In ‘real time’ we are burdened by our routine of time, our lack of time, our schedules in time – in his ‘time’ non of those exist – he takes them all and ‘gifts you time’……….
Try taking you watch off for a couple of days and see what happens -
I did that – I took my watch of for a ‘span of time’ and then realised just how much time I had without its constant reminder that I was running out of time !!!
I wear one now but it doesn’t have the same impact -
We have a warped view of “history”
http://www.revisedhistory.org/investigation-historical-dating.htm
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.20
@laws
you should spearhead a voyage to find the edge of the earth. I never like Columbus day anyway.
Thought of the day: The death and resurrection of Jesus Christ has changed God’s position before man. What is that position? He no longer counts are trespasses against us. Awesome.
” find the edge of the earth” ..lol
The earth is the same as the UN logo. North pole is centre, the S is a mountain range.
And re: time is an earthly construct”. No in heaven they worship “day and night” Rev 4:8 And they had no rest day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God, the Almighty, who was and is and is to come.” many other refs as well; plus there is HOURLY time awareness there as well !
Rev 8:1 And when He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in Heaven for about half an hour. ”
——-
I just trust the bible over what I was taught in school/uni and by warped “culture”.
It’s a lot less cognitive dissonant, the sun rises and sets, weather goes usually from WEST to east! Stars and planets are smaller than earth, they have their own orbits over the earth, within the dome God placed there.
JESUS said Mat 24:29 “the stars shall fall from the heaven”.
In Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, even as a fig tree casts her untimely figs when she is shaken by a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed like a scroll when it is rolled together. And every mountain and island were moved out of their places. ”
literally. NOT comets.
@Laws
yes if the earth is flat where is the end of it?
is the sun smaller than the earth too?
sounds very cultish to me
Very interesting scripture to read in regards to Todd Bentley:
Luke 13:
6 And he told this parable: “A man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it and found none. 7 And he said to the vinedresser, ‘Look, for three years now I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and I find none. Cut it down. Why should it use up the ground?’ 8 And he answered him, ‘Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and put on manure. 9 Then if it should bear fruit next year, well and good; but if not, you can cut it down.’”
cultish”?
Cult means “group” or “family”. Yes my cosmology comes from the Bible – where does YOURS come from? I belong to the cult of Christ – I believe what He said through His apostles.
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to divide between the day and the night. And let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years.
Gen 1:15 And let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth. And it was so.
Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day and the smaller light to rule the night, and the stars also.
Gen 1:17 And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth,
Gen 1:18 and to rule over the day and over the night; and to divide between the light and the darkness. And God saw that it was good. ”
You just can’t (or won’t) accept the Bible as being factual.
@laws
i have no problem accepting the Bible as factual. I have a problem when people use the Bible to try and support their own “facts.” The earth is round, the earth and the planets rotate around the sun. The earth isn’t the biggest planet. There are stars bigger than the earth, specifically the sun. You aren’t believing the facts of the Bible, you are using the Bible to support your own “facts.”
In the Old Testament a fruitful tree was a symbol of godly living. Jesus made a good point in Luke 13. What value is a bad tree, or a tree that does not produce? This is a warning to repent. Just like John the Baptist did. It shows that God will not tolerate the lack of productivity forever. In other words, respond to the Garners care, or you will be cut down. It’s a law in nature too.
@Susan
Yes it can refer to repentance. Thats what the digging out around the tree symbolizes. Digging up the sin. But it also represents time. The vinedresser wanted to cut the tree down because it had been without fruit for 3 years. The man said give it another year. How often do we expect to see fruit before it is time. We can’t expect an immature tree with small branches to grow good fruit. It takes time. I think many in Todd’s case ar looking for fruit immedietely, but that is a mistake. Give it time and allow God to dig out around the “tree” and put manure around it. Manure is waste and its smells bad. God will use the “waste” and the bad things to help produce a mature tree capable of bearing much fruit.
You’ll have to talk to the Gardner about Todd. Jesus made the point about a bad tree. I see it as clear as daylight.