By Rick Hiebert. All Rights Reserved. Used By Permission.
Todd Bentley can minister wherever he choses, says Rick Joyner.
You knew that it was a given that he’d be back on the road, after Todd Bentley announced plans for worldwide missions trips—outside North America, where he would be likely to be asked about his ministry, divorce and various bad things that happened at Lakeland. Bentley, with a new house and his own ministry base, could proceed on his own without Joyner’s approval.
This may be a fait accompli for Joyner. Bentley knows that he can’t wait 5 or 10 years to be “restored”, as the next big revival or two will happen and he will be yesterday’s news. If he wants to be a worldwide evangelist again, he has to go pretty soon, whether Joyner thinks so or not.
We can guess that Joyner is really reluctant to continue with this process and just wants to let Bentley go. Before Monday’s video, the last restoration video that he did was Dec. 14, 2009. Given that the last video was called “We are all in Process”, we can hopefully get some updates on how Bentley’s “process” is coming along.
The latest video was posted Monday August 16.
Bentleys’ restoration was intended to be a three step process. The local ministry, Joyner said, had “spectacular” results. “We were able to verify” that cancer victims were healed, but Joyner offers no further details, at least none that would allow this claim to be independently verified.
At 3:17 of the video, Joyner says:
“…We feel that we’re coming to a time, where it’s time to release him [Bentley] on another level and the next level is where Todd is going to be going outside [the immediate area around the Morningstar headquarters] with those from our ministry team [who] will be accompanying him. And it’s not to watch over him, every little thing he’s doing, he’s a man, not a child, but it’s just to be a watchman and to help, you know, and also to be available to help answer questions to people who may have questions and things like that. But we feel that it is time now to release Todd to other ministries that we want to know him well, we know them well, and there’s real relationship there.”
“During this phase, we’re seeking elders in the church. We’re meeting with, uh, major Christian leaders of international stature, who will, as the final phase, will in council together, determine [that] it’s time now to release Todd into ministry. Now, that’s something where we’re gonna have to trust them, and endure all the intensive questioning and everything else but that’s what we want. We don’t wanna leave a stone unturned, or miss something that cvould later be a trap Todd’s life or anyone else life.”
“Even through the most perfect restoration process, which by the way, every one of us in, you know, and been in, until we have been perfected….We believe these elders of the church are going to bring wisdom and accountability, and challenges, where needed….”
Let’s pause to parse for a moment.
“… And it’s not to watch over him, every little thing he’s doing, he’s a man, not a child…”
I had thought that was due to the fact that he had supposedly no peers to hang out with him at Lakeland that led to his drinking and falling into “adultery” [as his old ministry defined it]. Wouldn’t babysitting him for the time being be something to consider?
“….and also to be available to help answer questions to people who may have questions and things like that…”
Todd Bentley, after many webinars where he fielded questions, is not capable of answering what people might want to know?
I predict that they will be the ones answering questions, not just “helping” Todd with it.
I also bet that they will be on the lookout to stop public rebukes like the one that the Operation Save America folks staged a few months ago.
The “gatekeepers” that will accompany Bentley will also, effectively, stop most local secular press coverage of Bentley as he travels. If they can’t get an interview, or even quotes from Bentley, and are instead are directed to a Joe Bloggs of Morningstar, it’s going to make it harder for an editor wanting to see if Bentley has made amends to do their work. If the editor, say, has a shocking new revelation or local angle on the Bentley story, they might be reduced to “Bentley refused to talk to us”, which leads Christians who don’t give reporters a break to ignore the story.
“But we feel that it is time now to release Todd to other ministries that we want to know him well, we know them well, and there’s real relationship there.”
This is where Joyner gets something back for Morningstar’s grief in doing this. Want access to Bentley? It’s “friends of Morningstar first” And, you will need to become friends with us, even if you approve of Bentley, but not Joyner, to see him work at your church.
Perhaps a variant of the old Hollywood “block booking” system might be used where in order to get the star (Bentley), you will need to give space and time to other Morningstar speakers too.
The worldwide elders part is interesting too…
I remember hearing, many months ago, that noted teacher Jack Deere was supposed to be the “bad cop” of those overseeing the Bentley restoration process. He was going to ask the tough questions and such. Isn’t it interesting that we have never heard from him at all in any of the statements or videos from Morningstar that I have seen?
Did Deere decide to wash his hands of all this? Does he think that there are still things that may disqualify Bentley from ministry? Joyner just introduced Deere as the 800 pound gorilla of this whole process and then…nothing. Hmmm…
The worldwide council might be problematic.
If it winds up being made up of obscure “internationally recognized” people, it will be a bad sign. And if people are “internationally recognized” they may have valid reasons to not want to spend the time to do this.
And, sad to say, would they want to risk hitching their cart to Bentley in case he fails again.
It’s hard to come into someone’s life, if you don’t really know them that well, and confront them.
As I know from my own interview with Bentley—wow, was it nine years ago now—he has been adept at not being entirely truthful. “I misled you,” he said, when I confronted him.
Todd Bentley, if he is unrepentant, could lead his questioners on a merry dance, and bluff his way through, getting that coveted
seal of approval from them.
Joyner continues, starting to talk about how co-operative Todd Bentley has been.
Here’s what I think may be a smoking gun. Do pay attention to it.
At 6:48, Joyner says:
“I was warned by just about everybody about Todd’s manipulation and scheming and everything else that he’s gonna do…Honestly, uh, we all have some of that in us, and you see it throughout the Scriptures, the best in the Scriptures have some of that. Unfortunately, and we’re trying to get rid of it, and it’s not right…. I think it was Todd’s absolute profound honesty and straighforwardness that many people took as manipulation. Crazy as it sounds, when he determined ‘I am getting a divorce’, he wasn’t trying to hide anything. He was being clear, he wasn’t trying to manipulate, and scheme…In his opinion, it was the last straw, it wasn’t going to work… Most people would try to paint the best picture. Todd didn’t do that.”
If Todd continues to have a possible problem with “manipulation and scheming”, as Joyner may be alluding to by saying that everyone has a problem here, isn’t caution wise? “And we’re trying to get rid of it” could either apply to everyone, or is a slip to mean that “we’re trying to get rid of it” in Todd specifically. The former is probably the case though.
Joyner is being disingenuous here. First, it is impossible to hide a divorce and remarriage, so Bentley’s being honest with that is no special virtue. Critics took offense, as they believed that divorce and remarriage is not allowed by the Bible. Any manipulation on Todd’s part would come in the “there’s no hope part…that’s all I could have done”. And given that Shonnah Bentley is now silent, Bentley can be freely manipulative, as there is no “other side” to look at. [She even took the stage at Ignited Church to support her husband, so my verdict is there was lots of hope. A woman who was willing to take him back after the “emotional affair” that caused his first “dark night of the soul” in 2005-2006 is truly longsuffering.]
[By the way, Joyner et. al are still working on that statement that allows divorce and remarriage> Todd’s own version, which sat on Joyner’s desk over a year ago for approval, is still being help. Captain Renaud is appropriately shocked.]
“The best of” people in the Scriptures were guilty of “manipulation and scheming”. Really? Can we have some Biblical citations where the Apostles, say, were guilty of it?
Joyner goes on to say that Bentley is more forthright and forthcoming than his accusers are. May we see him be brutally frank with himself, in depth, to his detriment, where it could hurt his ministry, in public, then? We shall see.
Joyner, at 10:27 adds:
“He [Bentley] may fall six, seven more times. If he does, I don’t care how bad it is ….If he falls, I hope to help him back up again.”
And then later, Joyner pulls out his violin. No “manipulation” of emotions here:
“If it [a major moral fall] happened to your children, and this is how God looks at it. Think about how you would feel if one of your children fell, just really made a mess of their life. Think of how grateful you would be to anyone who really got in and helped them to straighten out, and to get their feet back…”
Restoration is a very laudable thing…but when do you reach the point where you say about Bentley that what has happened in the past means that he shouldn’t be ministering anymore and should get a day job?
Rick Joyner may have good intentions…but does he have good discernment and Biblical wisdom to add to his intent?
@Therese
Yes that is true, but allow me to take it a step further in saying that the way the Lord gets to know us is by exposing what is in our hearts. He does this through trial, tribulation, correction and discipline. The context of the verse ‘depart from me I never knew you’ was having to do with false prophets, if you read the few verses before it. As we all know, false prophets are wolves in sheep’s clothing. On the outside they appear all good and true but in their hearts they are evil. We cannot tell a false prophet just by what he does, because as Matthew says, they will come prophesying, healing and casting out demons in His name. If we just go by what they do then we will mistake them for the real thing. Remember, they will come giving true words and performing real miracles.
Because Jesus said, ‘depart from me I never knew you,’ one of the signs of a false prophet is one who refuses correction and discipline. They refuse to be searched and tried by the Spirit and they refuse to submit to authority. They often claim to only listen to God and refuse the council and correction of earthly authority. They won’t allow the Lord to know what is really in their hearts, because they know the evil that lies there.
I have a problem when people call Todd a false prophet because I don’t see the signs. Most everyone says Todd isn’t really healing people and is faking signs and wonders. They look at his outward state (tattoos, piercings, sin etc) and they say that he is a false prophet. This doesn’t describe a wolf in sheep’s clothing because by people’s observations he is wearing wolves clothing. If Todd were a true false prophet, by all accounts he would have the appearance of a sheep in all the ways possible. He would perform real and verifiable healings and miracles. Todd’s fall into adultery and his admittance thereof shows me that he is willing to be corrected and disciplined by the Lord. He has submitted himself to other’s authority. Many may not agree with Todd ministering because of his past and his appearance, but to say he is a false prophet is wrong.
Also, I have heard that the words ‘depart from me I never knew you’ can be translated from the original Hebrew to mean ‘take three steps back.’ I heard this from some Jewish folks and have yet to find where the information was from.
Is it possible to go any further than “all the way”?..
David, the man after God’s own heart said, search me and KNOW me my God, and see if there be any wicked way in me..
Sure, I agree that passage is directed mainly at false prophets and the false shepherds of the church, but I thought you were mainly concerned with what it means for Jesus to “know” us. The principle is the same for all believers.. God’s ways are God’s ways, the same for everyone, the only thing is teachers/preachers will be judged more strictly..
As for poor Todd Bentley, he started off wearing sheep’s clothing, but I guess he lost his sheep-suit somewhere, because that’s definitely a wolf and not a lamb standing there now, obvious to anyone who isn’t completely taken in. That’s our God in action who has exposed the wolf’s nakedness, just as He said He would do – exposing his heart, as you said, only not exposed in the intimacy of the bridal chamber, but in his case exposed to the whole world!! If you continue to refuse to see that your idol has been toppled off his pedestal, then I honestly don’t know what more can be said really, it’s just some kind of stubborn perverseness on your part, something best left for the Lord.
rob goes “HOW DOES THE LORD GET TO KNOW US?” He already knows everything about everyone, but “your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.” Where are you posting from, you Todd worshipper?
And also ” I have heard that the words ‘depart from me I never knew you’ can be translated from the original Hebrew to mean ‘take three steps back.’’ is just more BS.
Typical “private interpreting” the word to suit you. Which is forbidden and will consign one to eternal hell as is written in Revelation.
——–
“I have a problem when people call Todd a false prophet .”
I have a problem when people don’t call Todd a false prophet.
” saw someone walking toward me. I knew in my spirit it was Paul the apostle. He walked right onto the bridge and he sat down next to me. He had this blank scroll in his hand and he started writing with a pen (which was more like a feather with ink). When he started writing it looked like Hebrew and he would say, “Eat this.” He continued writing on the scroll, saying “Eat this” again and again. But when I realized I was eating, I noticed that I wasn’t eating by my mouth, I was eating by my belly. He was stuffing his writings inside my spirit right past by head, putting some kind of divine revelation right into my spirit. Then Paul spoke to me about the message of the hour for the Church and much more.
He was short, not more than 5’1? or 5’2?. He was bald except for a little crown of hair that came around his head. Looking very Jewish
with a short, trimmed, white beard, my first thought was of a monk in a monastery! …He sat next to me and he took his hand and placed it across my chest not saying anything. But I felt like I was receiving an apostolic blessing from a father…. While he touched my chest, Abraham and David appeared out of the cloud of witnesses.
Just so you know too, Abraham was taller than David and Paul, about 6’5?. He was a very big rugged looking man, very big boned, large hands, having a long black beard and hair. In fact he looked quite East Indian or Pakistani (in skin color); not like an African man (in blackness), but closer to an East Indian man. He actually didn’t look Jewish at all!
Now David’s appearance was much different from Abraham’s. Having seen Jesus before, I noticed that David’s features were similar to Jesus, the Son of David. Both Jesus’ hair and David’s hair were alike-long brown
reddish locks that hung to their shoulders. David’s eyes were blue and he wore a purple royal robe but when he lifted his arm, inside his robe I saw the color blue; it was very kingly.
I discovered while conversing with Paul that it wasn’t only Jesus Christ who taught him in heaven. I say this because Paul told me: “Abraham taught me, in heaven, and that’s how and why I wrote the book of Hebrews Next, I was at Paul’s house and he said to eat the Book of Titus! What’s more, several days later I was taken back into heaven to Paul’s house! But this time I didn’t go inside. I stayed outside where I saw a ladder in his back yard like the one described in Genesis 28, Jacob’s ladder.”. http://www.letusreason.org/Latrain45.htm
——
OK? There’s tons more of such crap. [Apollos wrote Hebrews btw]
rob goes “HOW DOES THE LORD GET TO KNOW US?” He already knows everything about everyone, but “your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.” Where are you posting from, you Todd worshipper?
And also ” I have heard that the words ‘depart from me I never knew you’ can be translated from the original Hebrew to mean ‘take three steps back.’’ is just more BS.
Typical “private interpreting” the word to suit you. Which is forbidden and will consign one to eternal hell as is written in Revelation.
——–
“I have a problem when people call Todd a false prophet .”
I have a problem when people don’t call Todd a false prophet.
” saw someone walking toward me. I knew in my spirit it was Paul the apostle. He walked right onto the bridge and he sat down next to me. He had this blank scroll in his hand and he started writing with a pen (which was more like a feather with ink). When he started writing it looked like Hebrew and he would say, “Eat this.” He continued writing on the scroll, saying “Eat this” again and again. But when I realized I was eating, I noticed that I wasn’t eating by my mouth, I was eating by my belly. He was stuffing his writings inside my spirit right past by head, putting some kind of divine revelation right into my spirit. Then Paul spoke to me about the message of the hour for the Church and much more.
He was short, not more than 5’1? or 5’2?. He was bald except for a little crown of hair that came around his head. Looking very Jewish
with a short, trimmed, white beard, my first thought was of a monk in a monastery! …He sat next to me and he took his hand and placed it across my chest not saying anything. But I felt like I was receiving an apostolic blessing from a father…. While he touched my chest, Abraham and David appeared out of the cloud of witnesses.
Just so you know too, Abraham was taller than David and Paul, about 6’5?. He was a very big rugged looking man, very big boned, large hands, having a long black beard and hair. In fact he looked quite East Indian or Pakistani (in skin color); not like an African man (in blackness), but closer to an East Indian man. He actually didn’t look Jewish at all!
Now David’s appearance was much different from Abraham’s. Having seen Jesus before, I noticed that David’s features were similar to Jesus, the Son of David. Both Jesus’ hair and David’s hair were alike-long brown
reddish locks that hung to their shoulders. David’s eyes were blue and he wore a purple royal robe but when he lifted his arm, inside his robe I saw the color blue; it was very kingly.
I discovered while conversing with Paul that it wasn’t only Jesus Christ who taught him in heaven. I say this because Paul told me: “Abraham taught me, in heaven, and that’s how and why I wrote the book of Hebrews Next, I was at Paul’s house and he said to eat the Book of Titus! What’s more, several days later I was taken back into heaven to Paul’s house! But this time I didn’t go inside. I stayed outside where I saw a ladder in his back yard like the one described in Genesis 28, Jacob’s ladder.”. http://www.letusreason.org/Latrain45.htm
——
OK? There’s tons more of such crap. [Apollos wrote Hebrews btw]
@laws
oh yes i worship Todd long live Todd, he is so worthy. what a ball of crap
Todd ‘plays at ‘things’. His intent for the most part is to elevate himself/enjoy himself/satisfy himself………… The rest is just ‘filling’……. When the world is in such a ‘sate’ of fragility, I hardly think Jesus would be speaking to his ‘prophets’ in a way that either Todd or Mr Joyner would like us to believe……….
Rob you are in a form of denial! Wake up
Its not about tats or piercings (although it probably does appeal to the Jesus bikers out there!) its about his ‘Emmas’ his gem stones’, his wife who appears to get possessed by spirits like william Branham, or whatever, his so called annointing that in actual fact seems ‘sparodic’ in its manifestation and results, his prolific ego, his I AM attitude, and so on………………. what more evidence do you need for goodness sake!! Him and Jason and their Harleys – how do you think people out their with ‘nothing ‘ feel when they hear him going on about his ‘wonderful life, wife, annointing, appointing, – If that is who Jesus is then you are welcome to him for my Jesus knows all things, can do all things, and restore ALL things – Todd just ‘dabbles’ in all things..
i wonder if Jesus would have rode a Harley.
BTW for those of you who don’t know Jesus has a tattoo… Revelation 19:16…. KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS written on his thigh.
@hope
I have known people that have found gem stones. it is real and it happens.
Revelations 19:16 states the name is written on the garment that covers his thigh. Their are many references in The Old Testament and New Testament about this, and they cover the verses in Revelations 19:13-19.
Rob: So then a counterfeit Todd and lord sitting on the throne most high tempting us with gem stones
Or a Lord with compassion so great that has more mercy than you and I all deserve sitting in a grief so deep that no man could console him looking at us bleeding him dry from the very essence of his being saying Lord Lord and him sayng
go away from me I never knew you………..
Todds tatts are in unison with revelations only – not the FATHER WHO BORE THEN
Todd is in unison with scripture and verse passage and paragraph but not with the FATHER WHO GIFTS THEM TO US………………..
You deny me rob !
‘I never knew you’ is a term used when all else fails and Jesus moves into action and leaves his words and yours and goes to seek why you are not responding to what is so obvious before you………….. When you get exasperated with someone don’t you walk away and say ‘oh forget it you morron’) (oh Rob who is not perfect yet trying to be) so did Jesus but he didn’t give up – SO MANY DO – he came back to face that – which once again had denied him – I don’t rest in words or chapter or verse – for only in him will I find rest and peace that paseth all your and my understanding (so I can win the way truth and light and not the likes of !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) You won’t beat me on words Rob they are his, nor on understanding Rob for I walk in his – Todd is too afraid to face the challenge of truth ‘……..he hides not I………….. peace be with you all
You’re being irreverent Rob, time to grow up don’t you think…Jesus could have and deserved to have ridden in a King’s chariot if He wanted to, He could have been carried by angels, but instead denied Himself those things and chose to walk the miles and miles of dusty stony roads in sandaled feet the same as the people He came to, preaching the good news to the poor. The only time He rode anything was a donkey, and only a borrowed one at that. Doesn’t He deserve your respect?…and so much more
The never knew them because they were Tares sown into the Church by the Devil himself. In other words they were ‘Workers of Iniquity’.
Correction; He never knew them….
My prayer is that our young people are not influenced by so called “christians” who get marked for Jesus. (Taotooed)
Leviticus 19:28 “You shall not make any cuts in your body for the dead nor make any tattoo marks on yourselves. I am The Lord.” The pagans used tattoos and cut themselves. They were signs of idol worship and false worship of other gods.
I don’t see the good in presuming that Jesus would ride a Harley. I have a hard time fathoming that, because one may be encouraged by their own ideas of scripture that suits that person.
Like it or not there is a “Trustworthy”, “True”, and “Rightous” judge. His weapon is a two edged sword that will cut both ways. Todd is very dangerous, and even more so I think to himself.
its funny how people will use Levitical law to tell a person what to do or how to act, yet they ignore the other parts of it such as not trimming your beard or wearing clothing made of 2 different materials. Back then tattoos were a symbol of idolatry and paganism which is why Moses told the people not to get one. Not so the case today, where tattoos are a symbol of individual artistic expression. Again, Jesus is not looking at our flesh he sees our heart. Someone without tattoos can be just as evil and wicked as someone with.
lol
“I have a problem when people call Todd a false prophet .” And stating Jesus has a stamp – typical mis-reading the Word. Tattoos and mutilations ie ear guaging/branding/rings through the nose [the easier to be led around by] etc are merely outward manifestations of inward REBELLION! My body, MY choice. Same argument for the abortion LIE. Anyone else notice this fad has only been popular – in the context of civilized history – only for the last few years??? Living in Sodom.
——–
And re: feathers globes etc
I know a lady who got gold [or gold coloured] caps on her molars, at a meeting – I have seen them, and I know her and she is no liar. Yet the fact is. counterfeit signs, like counterfeit money, appear legit. The bible says false but physical wonders will occur. This is how people are fooled.
..my heart is pricked by your post Hopesome..
Typical – trot out the worn out misinterp of the Word.
Goal: make God a liar and hypocrite.
——
Lev 19:26 You shall not eat anything with the blood. You shall not divine, nor conjure spirits.
Lev 19:27 You shall not round the side of your head, nor mar the edge of your beard.
Lev 19:28 You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks on you. I am Jehovah.
Lev 19:29 You shall not prostitute your daughter, to cause her to be a whore, lest the land go whoring, and the land become full of wickedness.
Lev 19:30 You shall keep My sabbaths and revere My sanctuary. I am Jehovah.
Lev 19:31 You shall not turn to mediums, and you shall not seek to spirit-knowers to be defiled by them. I am Jehovah your God. ”
New Testament: too numerous to mention. “Follow Me” He (said) COMMANDED! Don’t be like the world. Soon the Remnant will be revealed. Tattoos can be erased. Rings taken out of noses etc.
Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Just be very careful Rob when it comes to thinking Jesus will be tattooed. Search out that one verse very carefully about Tattoos. In context the scripture shows a very disciptive picture of God’s anger and judgement. With that said, His mercy will also be “alongside of him”. Jesus’ entry in Rev. 19:16 indicates the end all false powers.
All I’m trying to point out, is don’t make God into a mythical being, that we can presume to know what he feels. My words may no be as clear as what I see happening around me at times. Like someone told me once, just be very careful.
@laws
regarding gold teeth/fillings. In order for there to be a counterfeit there must be a REAL thing. The devil cannot create on his own, only copy and counterfeit the real. If you say the gold teeth you saw were counterfeit then there must be real ones.
if i went around printing and handing out $3 bills that would not be counterfeiting because there is no real $3 bill. There has to be a real for there to be a false. common sense.
“The devil cannot create on his own, only copy and counterfeit the real.”
Is there a scriptural reference to support this statement?
Carnal man runs after gold to line his teeth or his wallet, and thus the devil mocks, but what God is after is the gold refined in the fire. Yes, you are right then, a counterfeit, but not in the way you’re thinking, Rob.
Seems to me that our Lord doesn’t do things to cause a sensation, if someone is in need of healing in a tooth, He simply heals the tooth and MAKES IT WHOLE, because that’s what He does, that’s His way, He makes us whole.
I went many years without a dentist and I used to worry when I had a toothache, praying for the Lord to heal and keep my teeth because I had no money for a dentist, well fifteen years and two pregnancies later (pregnancy can be hard on the teeth) when I finally got to a dentist for a checkup, there were no cavities! Nada! He never even announced when He was healing my teeth, there was no covetousness stirred up in me at any time, He just made them or kept them whole. No trumpets or choirs of angels or people running around ‘gimme, gimme’, He is just so humble and kind. He makes your god look like a circus clown. It’s a wicked generation that seeks a sign.
@Sean
The entire Bible attests to the fact that the devil only counterfeits. He is the father of lies. God is creator and only He can create. The devil cannot. He can only copy what is real with lies.
@Therese
They are called signs and wonders because they are signs that make you wonder. Its easy to look and say well why did God do that? why didn’t he just make it a whole tooth etc. etc. Because He can. His ways are not our ways. The minute we try to understand stuff like that is the minute we fall into a trap of doubt and unbelief. God will do what He wants to do, even if we cannot explain or understand it.
and yes nobody should ever seek a sign… the signs only point to Him, Jesus. If we stop at the sign we miss everything. I love signs and wonders, healing and miracles, but all of them are meant to point to Jesus. if they don’t cause me to draw closer to Him then they are worthless.
So no real answer to my question. Looks like another statement pulled out of ……..
@Sean
“And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.” 2 cor 11:14
Satan is a masquerader, he copies what is real. He cannot create anything. God is the one and only creator.
ROB; We are beginning to witness the genuine as we speak – but showing you the false in Todd and your denials of it – seems like it may be a long road ahead! As the Father leads us out of the false he will show us the genuine – otherwise we won’t know why we have been who we have been or how we ended up here or who seems determined that we never ‘move on’………
The gems are so not from the genuine – if it was then we would not be questioning their arrival or in some cases wanting some for ourselves ( and in truth who couldn’t do without a free diamond or two! to flog ) Jesus does not create division he came to take it……….. If we weren’ such hoarders ‘ there would be enough to go round for everyone – and the governments are some of the worst at hoarding!!……… as for the gold caps – its something I have been wanting the answer too since reading about some indians who got ‘class A dentistry’ while in a meeting some 20 odd years ago – and as I don’t particularly like the dentist ‘I though it might be a way out of not having to go!! I am still waiting for the full answer to that one – I find the Father only reveals that which he is dealing with at any given time and so far war seems to have been the Fathers main concern – ie to take that which in us humans likes to war!….
If you remove that which ‘contradicts him’ ie; is contra – you then have genuine – contra flow is counter – and many counter his revealing of who he is in truth not who they want or desire – he is battling with the contra so that we may know him not the one they are determined to bring us.
On reflection I guess you have to go beyond creation to receive the answer to the gold caps if you wanted the genuine (answer) – Maybe when the Father has taken what created war in us all he wll give us that answer.
Always remember that Jesus was a peace maker – thats why he delivered people from the demonic – to give them peace ………………
Todd has created too much war for me to beleive that he walks in peace, or for peace……….
The answer given only shows Satan as a masquerader which is true. However, the statement that he cannot create anything (like maybe a gold filling) goes beyond your supportive verse.
There are some connotations that go along with the verse in 2 Corinthians 11:14. We know that the angel of light, his name is Lucifer. “Angel of light” also refers to the morning star in Is. 14:12. This was Venus, which was called Ishtar, and was worshiped by the Babylonians. (Todd/Morningstar. It’s just ironic.)
Did you know that many smooth-talking, bible quoting leaders in religous cults can practice immorality? I think when we suspect something like this, just maybe we need to take a close check of these leaders life-styles. I think that leaders like this take God’s word and seriously tear down the unsuspecting people with false roars and noisy empty promises. Could this be one of the biggest problems in the church? YES
What God has created ROB ………………… seems to me one with a wharped mind ……… as the Father draws ever nearer – we will begin to see the wheat from the chaff………….
Genuine God or false God -
We wait for the real one to show up and rescue us from enemy territory and captivity…….
Our very being is held captive otherwise we would be able to see clearly the false from the genuine – and so we have been veiled from true witness -true love – true hope and the hands of the one who wishes to own us for himself – Jesus came to bare fruit the Father comes to harvest – that which resisted him -ie; Lucifer, Satan, and beelzebub – so that our light may shine not Lucifers
It might be helpful Rob for you to search in the scriptures (with an open mind/heart) to see what kinds of signs and wonders the Father does do, and for what purposes..to try and get to know Him better.
..Rob don’t you understand that making a tooth whole, which is living, is a greater miracle than creating gold which is not living?..
Actually gold is living it is created by the same life that created that life which enables gold to exist. — Whatever and whoever created the life and substance and elements etc of who we are also created an opposite that seems to take life ……………. I would like to think my god would create only life
There is a flaw to life – its called disease -
We live in a balance of negative and positive – good bad, hope hell, sick, well and so on – so there is then a negative ‘side to life’ that does prevent us from fully being in life…….. we live with the threat of ‘death’ – sickness, war and so on –
Jesus takes the negative ‘side of our life’…………. and brings us fully into life – his life (Jesus’s) is and has no negative only the grief at its existance ……………. So who or what created the negative needs ‘a smack’ if you ask me!!!!!!!!!!!! and therefore as we walk more and more in the prescence of jesus’s life we lose ours (the negative) and take on his…. when you think of what he and the father are truly capable of it should give you a barometer on how far people have got on the journey to his life by fruits they exhibit in their life; Now Todd speaks of much fruit but frankly his magnitide in words and the passion of them is far greater than the fruits of them ! so thats one way to test – but then is Todd genuine in the Jesus of genuine or genuine in the fake Jesus….
@Sean
I guess i should make it a little clearer. Satan cannot create anything that hasn’t already been created. If he forms a gold tooth he’s not creating something new, only using what God has already created (gold or teeth) for his purpose. But there is also the fact in doing miracles, signs and wonders Satan can only replicate what God can do. In order for it to be a false miracle there has to be a real one. Again the question is who do the signs point to? If it points to anything other than Jesus Christ, then it is false. The power is not in the miracle itself, but who is behind it.
@Susan
Rev 22:16
“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”
@Hope
Matthew 10:34
Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
35For I have come to turn
“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household
@Therese
Just because a specific sign or wonder doesn’t appear in the Scripture doesn’t make it not God. It says that all the books in the world couldn’t contain everything Jesus did. Also back then I don’t think they had fillings or gold teeth. If my car broke down and I prayed and Jesus fixed it is that not a true miracle because it’s not in scripture and Jesus didn’t do it? Of course He didn’t do it there were no cars.
@Therese
Yes, personally I would rather have a completely new tooth without a gold filling but that doesn’t mean God won’t turn a filling into gold. I think gold can just be a sign of His glory. Most of the people it has happened to weren’t even thinking that or praying for the tooth. If i specifically ask the Lord for a new tooth I believe he will give me what I ask for.
In regards to the ‘negative:’ I think there is too much of focus in Christian circles today on the power of the devil. We should be aware of his tactics and what he can do, however, when our focus on what he can do becomes greater than our focus on what God can do then we are headed in the wrong direction. I often see more faith in the devil to deceive people than in the Holy Spirit to lead them in all truth. I am aware of the devil’s power to deceive and mimic the real thing, but I want my focus to be on the power of God and what He can do. This is especially true regarding end time prophecy. Many people talk about all the ‘bad’ things and judgements that are going to happen on the earth before the Lord’s return. But what about all the good things that are going to happen? What about what God is going to do on the earth? There are far more good things to look foward to near the ned then there are bad. Where is our focus?
@Rob
Your response does not provide scriptural evidence. It is just another convoluted explanation that has no real scriptural basis.
Note the link:
http://www.angelfire.com/tx4/nwo/gold-rush.htm
Such spontaneous gold phenomena are not consistent with real biblical miracles. Instead they have historically occurred in other pagan religions. In the TACF and Bentley cases where they have followed pagan religious practices, these dental events may be a result of these practices.
On the other hand, these phenomena may have been just imagined, like Bentley’s so-called resurrections as a result of Lakeland (claimed more than 30, verified zero).
@Sean
we must be reading different scriptures then
Rob: peace can come with a sword also – A sword has more meaning than just a metal object – words can be a sword to bring peace depending on how they are clothed
Rob, I wasn’t talking about looking for the specific miracles, but the type and nature of the miracles, to see what it says about our God and who He is and what He is like..to know Him better and His ways..let Him wash your mind with the water of the washing of His word, please I hope you will look into that sometime.
To be honest, when I think of gold dust, gems and feathers, I think of what saloon girls were bought and paid for during the gold rush era..are we to be like those saloon girls?.ie, spiritual harlots? Whose price for an evening’s ‘entertainment’ is a feather boa or a ruby ring? Truly the devil is mocking.