By Rick Hiebert. All Rights Reserved. Used by Permission.
An e-mail from Tood Bentley’s ministry on Friday, as he continues to tour the USA, predicts “revivals” in 12 American cities.
Would that it were so, but I hear the Church Lady character from Saturday Night Live saying “How conveeeenient.”
I’ll reproduce the full e-mail as the first comment, as I see that FreshFireUSA scrubs and deletes regularly. It is here.
Here are some things that stand out to me.
Bentley writes:
“In April of 2008, within the first few weeks of Lakeland Bob Jones and myself were having a conversation by phone where we were both shown 12 cities where the Outpouring would begin breaking out igniting the fires of Revival. We understand and celebrate the many places that Revival is breaking out across America and throughout the world, but this is just our part of what we were shown.
The first city was Charlotte, NC. On April 23rd, a “Breakout” began at Rick Joyner’s MorningStar Fellowship Church, which lasted 7 months. During these 7 months, they hosted meetings 6 nights a week with many notable and remarkable miracles each night. The second city I was shown was Kansas City, MO. Many of you are familiar with the “Student Awakening” at IHOP and what has happened there.”
Hmm. Bentley is depending on people having a short memory. Given that he had hours to fill every night–he even shared his “leg drop the pastor” stories and such, I wonder why he didn’t share these prophecies of the first two places where revival would be? Isn’t a biblical test for a prophet the ability to correctly say what will happen before it does? He had lots of time to do so. So did Bon Jones, for that matter.
And remember the many “restoration videos” webinars and such. Wouldn’t “I have to come back to ministry or these 12 cities won’t see revival” have been a central element of what he said? (Retroactively, it would also make Todd leaving ministry for lower profile work impossible. Wouldn’t that impel comments like “I can’t leave ministry, even though I have remarried, because God says…”
Why leave all this unmentioned. It also relates to something Bentley says later.
Todd is not even bothering addressing his critics. This is for followers.
Bentley quotes Bob Jones as follows:
I did write down for documentation a few things about that prophecy. And one thing that Bob said was, “The third wave has begun.” This wave will promote, prepare, purify, pierce, and inspire. We can expect to be changed. The voice of healing move of the Spirit years ago is now here for a second time and will not be stopped. It is a major healing move.
The Third Wave borrows from a concept of Peter Wagner’s. You remember how he and his group were basically asked not to participate in Bentley’s restoation process which explains why after decrying some of Bentley’s mistakes Wagner has been pretty silent on this since then. Anyways, it is a concept that troubles some with an eye to apologetics.
And take note for future reference that Bob Jones says that this healing movement will not be stopped.
Bentley adds:
“In Lakeland, I was given a promise of how the ark of God and Revival would be carried from city to city. This fire would be transferrable. It would be a tangible fire….”
Since the Lakeland Outpouring has been over for two years now, can we say this may be accurate?
He continues:
….the Lord began to have me revisit the original prophetic promise of the 12 cities that I was given with Bob in April of 2008. He said, “Do you remember that word?” I said, “Yes Lord.” He said, “That word is now. This 12-city promise is for now. You need to fire it up again, and you need to focus specifically on praying for people from Ohio and keep prophesying Ohio. Watch Ohio. Because as it breaks there, it is going to begin to break in many other cities.”
Here are the 12 cities that I was given in April 2008:
Lakeland/Orlando, Florida (Lakeland Outpouring)
Charlotte, NC (“Breakout” happened at MorningStar)
Kansas City, MO (Student Awakening)
Ohio
Atlanta, GA
Des Moines, Iowa
Omaha and Lincoln, Nebraska
Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX
Denver, CO
Nashville, TN
Portland/Albany, OR
Seattle, WA “
“Keep prophesying Ohio”. All right then, what if revival does not take place in Ohio? Would that invalidate the rest of the word?
And guess where Bentley is ministering next week. In Milford Ohio, a suburb of Cincinatti.
And Lakeland is at the top of the list. Some people were no doubt blessed, but the ABC Nightline crew found that people were going unhealed, and that people in the community were telling the reporters that the Outpouring wasn’t having the effect on the wider community that a revival should. Not to mention the World magazine story that found that over 30 people that Bentley’s ministry had declared healed had since died.
Some were blessed at Lakeland, but a lot more were hurt, either through being disappointed in God, or taught unsound theology. If Lakeland had indifferent results, do the other cities want a similar revival?
Is there only one “revival” per city. If Lakeland hasn’t resulted in lasting good fruit, does this mean that God is saying “Sorry, Lakeland you had your chance with Todd…”
After the list, Bentley quotes Bob Jones to the effect that Jones’ wife had a dream about revival in Ohio. With such evidence, does this mean that if Ohio fails in the prophecy, so goes the nation?
And we sadly have to guess that there will be intense pressure to make a revival happen in Ohio.
Enter the barnstorming evangelist.
Which brings to mind the proposed reality show on Discovery TV. Now I have realized what may be key to Todd Bentley and his brains trust about the show.
Remember GOD TV? We had two-three hours of Bentley et al. per night. Great publicity for Lakeland, but it proved double edged as people were able to pull things from the broadcasts to see that Todd Bentley and his revival were unsound.
Critics of Bentley found the footage useful, but what happens if Discovery is in GOD TV’s place. Discovery will go for the glitz, what is “good for television”. Critical thinking and followups that find that the lady is still wheelchair bound 90 per cent of the time, say, will be discouraged.
For Todd Bentley to succeed in what he wants to do now, he needs to be “edited for television”.
Thus this tour, which makes for good TV, as he preaches in a casino here, or at a church that meets in a Wal-Mart after hours there. And Todd’s audience, now that sceptics won’t give him the time of day, will be aching for revival in a noble way. The audience will also be wanting to prove that Joyner and Jones and Bentley were right in what they say in the e-mail.
And notice that the “revivals” are nicely spread around the country, which also makes for good TV.
What if God were to ask Todd to start another Welsh Revival? Discovery TV might say, “We can’t have you preaching in the same country for three years! How many shots of rugby teams, coal miners and male choirs can we show?!?!?” And since, with crowds and donations likely being lower this time around, Bentley’s Discovery income, or lack thereof might become very crucial to his future.
Back to Milford Ohio. Guess that as the “revival” is so needed, Bentley will be wanting everyone to come.
As long as they have $20 to register and get a wristband that allows them access.
The morning service is devoted to teaching anout healing, with the evening service devoted to ministry prayer. Those with the $20 wristbandss will have first dibs on entry into the nighttime services, driving out those without $20.
If the Milford site seats 1,000 that would mean $20K a day. Not counting offerings, which I predict will be taken.
“Silver and gold have you none, and such as I have, I won’t give?”
Bentley concludes:
“If you would like more information about becoming a host city of The Healing & the Kingdom Tour along with Regional Revival and Breakthrough Services, please send us an email at info@freshfireusa.com. We pray over every ministry request that comes in and are looking for those to partner with in seeing the Lord’s Kingdom come and the fires of Revival ignite the heart of this great nation once again!”
Well, I hope that Bentley doesn’t discover more cities and regions, after the fact, that he saw in his vision but was told not to say anything about until he was about to appear there the following week.
That would really be “too much”.
You’re correct Rob, God does not want us to suffer. However, keep an open mind to this, we are in the world, but not of it. We will still have hardships on this earth, those who will not see blessings till they see God face to face, and healings till they leave this earth. God is not like you or me, He comes to us through the Holy Spirit.
I’ll take breather now. I did not mean to get you upset.
@Susan
I’m not upset, sorry if it came across that way. I get passionate sometimes. : )
Spoke to someone today who told me that Todd has been leading teams on the streets of downtown Charlotte, NC. They have seen over 600 salvations thus far.
600 salvations. The legend continues.
Over 30 resurrections from the dead claimed. Zero verified.
Thousands of healings claimed. Zero medically verified. Most proven to be false.
All dubious claims that never stop coming.
Note that the most successful ministry in these modern times did NOT require the modern conveeeeniences that cost lots of $$$$.
By far, the largest growth in christianity in a region: 100 million Christians in China during a time when it was completely closed to outside support from the west.
Compare that to North America. The biggest barrier to real ministry is affluence and $$$$.
@Sean
These aren’t just claims from Todd. I know people that are on these teams and can testify of these numbers.
These teams being sent to the streets have nothing to do with money either.
Marina: All I was saying was that someone offered Jesus something & he took it, so Jesus must haven taken an offering.
Paul took offerings too.
These teams being sent to the street are yet one more way to get profile …….
Remember Todd is ‘in the likeness of jesus’ ie trying to be like him !! As for numbers of this that and or the other, its supposed to impress us and yet greed still prevails, grief is major and the earth has not seen witness of mighty ……….
If his miracles were as large as his BS (Sorry) we would all be in awe and frankly I for one am not ………… Witness awe and then get back to me … And I am not talking hips here (no disrespect )
“These teams being sent to the street are yet one more way to get profile …….”
That is a pretty harsh judgement to make
Rob:
I KNOW
I knew people who participated in the Bentley ministries as well. They were sincere but stubbornly gullible. Just like …….
Sincere people claimed that Bentley had healed them. Soon following they died of the diseases they were “healed” from.
The claims of Bentley and/or his followers have no credibility anymore.
Like I said before, dubious numbers continue to be claimed.
“They have seen over 600 salvations thus far.”
That’s a pretty far-fetched claim, coming from someone who unfortunately has proven to lie habitually, among other things. What does TB and friends consider to be “a salvation” I wonder? The facts of the recent past would seem to indicate a healthy dose of caution and skepticism is in order..how have you verified this claim, Rob?
I was told by a pastor friend of mine who is close to those doing the ministry. This particular street ministry was there long before Todd has gotten involved. In fact, one of the guys who spearheaded the initial outreach is a long-time childhood friend of mine. I know his and many other hearts involved and that they have a true love and passion for the lost. They aren’t ‘gullible’ people who are following Todd. They truly have a gift of prophetic evangelism and there has been much fruit from it. When they 600 have been saved I believe them. And whether it is 6 or 600 it doesn’t matter, they are still having an impacting for the Kingdom of God.
The constant need for verification on every healing or salvation claimed is ridiculous. How could you even provide ‘evidence’ of a salvation? Do we make an “I got saved” list and have everyone sign it? Its about sowing seeds. Not every seed that is sown will land on good soil and produce fruit. All we can do is pray that God will go before us and prepare the soil of their hearts. Its not about making ‘converts.’ Its about sowing the love of God into the hearts of a dying world. Some will receive and some will not. But one seed sown can eventually produce a great harvest. Problem is we are looking for immediate results. That is not a kingdom mentality.
Yes Marek I understand the simplicity of your statement. Something was offered to Jesus and he took it.
But the point is, the context of the way an “offering” is taken in churches today is contrary to the gospels. That fact that Jesus accepted an offering of someone’s possessions is now being used as license to pressure believers to give finances to support the pastor, the church bills and projects that the leaders decide on. Jesus did not need people to support him or his mission to see it completed. He had everything he needed at his disposal without any human intervention whatsoever. And what I find so very strange about Christianity is that Christians lack the same faith in their ultimate source of provision (the Father god) for doing the work that HE has commissioned. Instead of believing for god to provide the means for the kingdom business that he has authorized, men of god appeal to other humans for resources. To me that just confirms that the god they believe in is a weak god or just plain non-existent.
Paul collected offerings to help the poor saints in Jerusalem, not to ‘get the gospel out.’
Rob:
Prophetic evangelism are, along with power evangelism mere buzz words that keep the bull flowing ……. Its ever so nice to give yourself a title and then walk in its name, position, and so called ‘power’ ………… The feeding in and of each other in that sort of environment will eventually have you convinced of any and everything ……… Street evangelism is ‘me, me, me ……. in the name of Jesus ……. Todd said he was kicked out of one shop …….. that speaks volumes to me ……
@Hope
How is prophetic evangelism giving yourself a title? It’s not a buzz word. Jesus did it all the time (ie the woman at the well). How is street evangelism ‘me me me?’
Not one person can become part of the Kingdom God offers, because they are going through connections of a restoration process, the blessings of a christian family, having 1,2,10 or 600,000 salvation testimonies under one’s belt, a prosperous ministry, etc. These things don’t guarantee anyone eternal life in God’s Kingdom.
Be careful not to be set in a religous habit, that we could believe God will work in ways we expect. In other words, don’t allow our minds to limit God, because if our minds are set on our own accomplishments, we may just lack faith.
The “right hand” idiom. One of it’s meanings is salvation. Jesus instructed us not to let our left hand know what the right is doing. Jesus is our “right hand”. I can see here we should not think in terms of any type reward or attention, as to our work done for God’s Kingdom. Jesus would never, ever draw attention to himself. He always put the Father’s Kingdom first.
Grow up Rob, you get buzz words in every profession and market place, mostly to keep the punters happy and coming back for more ……….. its called market place psychology and ‘ministry marketing’ uses the same tactic as department stores when it comes to selling their wares etc., ……..
If todd got kicked out of a shop it was because me was up front not Jesus ……….
Well said Susan
you still haven’t answered my questions
Susan answered
As for Prophetic Evangelism ……….. well ask BOB JONES . where would he be without a title of di da di da di da …….
When the Lord sends me out he sends me out as nothing ……….
I would not want to be called, either prophet, teacher, healer or whatever
WHY
because walking as and with him I am ALL not just one thing or the other
He gave me a profession but not a title – so that I could earn cash ……..
WHY
I could go into the Office as him in all his glory not me in mine
There is a big difference in labeling yourself as a ‘Prophet” and recognizing a prophetic gift. Paul said it was his desire that all should prophesy, but not all are called as prophets. The people who go out and minister need to recognize the gifts that God has given them, whether it be healing, words of knowledge, prophecy etc… All of these gifts are incorporated into evangelism. They are tools that God gives us to minister to the lost and those who need to see the love of Christ. We are called to walk in humility and meekness but true humility and meekness isn’t saying, “I am nothing” rather it is saying “I have everything because I have Jesus Christ in me.” True humility is recognizing the gift of Christ in you and being confident in who we are because of Him. We are so afraid of being arrogant that we fall into false humility. God wants us to be confident in who He has called us to be.
“The constant need for verification on every healing or salvation claimed is ridiculous.”
Constant need? Constant???? Every healing???? How about a few?
Actually, Bentley has produced ZERO on verification even though he claimed his ministry was verifying the so-called miracles. ZERO medical verification on healings. ZERO on claimed resurrections from the dead. He’s the one who shot himself in the foot with his false claims and false claims of verifications.
To escape the ‘gullible’ label, people should stop following and/or promoting this false prophet.
You sound like Mr Joyner Rob:
Got the lingo ……… just like Todd and co.,
I am begining to think you are being cloned in a likeness of MSM ………
No ………. tools denote that you are better than those who need them !! I never go out with a tool …. or an intention …………..
If you need to go out with a tool, or a title, or a label then you are in need of a prop ……..
I have only him as my prop ………..
Todd fails because he and others NEED ANOTHER LAKELAND OR, or, or ………
I don’t
@Hope
They aren’t just tools they are weapons. “For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds” 2 Corinthians 10:4. Jesus came with intention…”to destroy the works of the devil” (1 John 3:8). We too go out with intention to destroy the works of the devil. He has given us the tools, the power, the weapons and the authority to do so. Prophecy destroys the works of the devil… Healing destroys the works of the devil… all of the gifts were given for this purpose.
We are ‘better’ in the sense that we are in the Kingdom of light and they are in the Kingdom of darkness. We are in Christ. This is a far better position than they are in. We have been given the tools to pull them out of darkness and into His marvelous light.
Maybe I sound like Joyner because I speak the truth here. I am not repeating what he says but what the word says. Would it shock you so bad that what Mr. Joyner is saying lines up with the Word of God?
Todds healings are ‘precursor’ a patina,
Healing should be, get to the root -
If I go out in the title of prophet then sure as eggs are eggs I going to get up the nose of somebody who isn’t, somebody who wants to be, and somebody who thinks they should be – that causes jealousy and ultimately WAR …………. You have no idea what the word weapons means in truth and neither does Joyner …….
Maybe you are one of Joyners weapons rob ……… like Todd
Nobody I know is going out and giving themselves titles. But we as people need to recognize the gifts in each other and call it like it is. “He who receives a prophet in the name of a prophet receives a prophets reward.” This isn’t to glorify the man, but to glorify God ON the man.
Jealousy over spiritual gifts can be a good thing. Paul said to earnestly desire spiritual gifts. When I see someone walking in a gift and I see people changed because of it, I AM JEALOUS. It is a righteous jealousy.
False prophets speak;
If I go out as a prophet is usually means a battle with a false one – the reward!!! not cash I can assure you most times you are too horrified at the weapons of hell to even think of one unlike them !! Their reward is ………… visable seeable spendable
Mine unspeakable
I can’t think of anything worse than going out and putting my ‘gifts’ on display, it would cheapen the Father ……… I can count the number of times its been necessary however, on one hand and it was always to show those in authority ……… who actually was ….. and almost always in a church setting
Its not about displaying the ‘gifts.’ Its about the gifts themselves displaying the love and power of God.
Jealousy still in place – any show of …….. creates jealousy …..
The god of this world shows his ‘principalities and powers with Pride
If we are doing what God has told us to do in a spirit of humility we don’t have to fear what other’s think or say. I cannot control another’s jealousy. I am not going to downgrade my place in Him and my confidence if someone is jealous.
That’s a great verse Rob since you mentioned it! I love that one.
1Jo 3:8 “He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.”
Jesus, through the cross, destroyed the ability of a child of god to Sin! There is not one sin that he did not overcome by his blood. So the sign of a true christian, born of god, is…NO MORE SINNING. That means that the REVOLVING DOOR CHRISTIANITY (sin…repentance…forgiveness…sin…repentance…forgiveness…etc.) that we see today is unscriptural. “For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins” (Heb 10:26)
Can I get a witness?
It gets even BETTER in the next verse:
1Jo 3:9 “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”
Those verses speak volumes about where Christianity is at today.
and thats the problem ………… there are times when I do ‘downgrade’ depending on the circumstances and needs ……… however its at those times that the prescence goes into action more than me as the vessel ………
his prescence is power and can do battle with the opposition while I get time to speak to the need.. ie: we go into battle together him for me I for him ……… the enemy will always try to steal the ground – so his prescence holds back the tide – while I gift in and for the need ……….
@Marina
Let me ask you this: Were Adam and Eve born with a sin nature?
Well, if god DID create Adam and Eve with an inherent sin nature, that is, a predisposition to commit willful sinful (ie. rebellious) acts against god, then he deliberately set them up for failure and he is a bad parent and a monster for making all humanity suffer for his malevolence.
If god DIDN’T create them with a “sin nature”, then they wouldn’t have been tricked into disobedience. They’d have robotically ignored the talking snake’s temptation and continued on their merry way never to incur the wrath of their maker and the disdain of the human race.
So I guess the answer is YES, Adam and Eve WERE born (created) with a sinful nature. Thank You god.
ok… why would God look at His creation and say, “It is good” if it wasn’t?
Here is my point: Adam and Eve were not born with a nature to sin. They were born in the image of God. In the same way, we, being a new creation do not have a nature to sin anymore like we used to. How then is it still possible to sin? The same way that Adam and Eve sinned, by believing a lie. All sin is rooted in lies. Adam and Eve believed what the devil said about them as opposed to what God had said. He attacked their identity. The enemy does the same thing to us today. He tries to convince us who we are not as opposed to who we are in Christ. When we believe the lie, we empower the lie. Our battle is not against flesh, it is a battle against spiritual strongholds who mimic our old nature with a lie. As a favorite minister of mine asked, “Is your house haunted?” Are you fighting the old man who is dead, or are you fighting a spiritual power coming against you? Many of us are fighting the wrong enemy.
Before the Garden of Eden, it is implied in scripture, evil had already occurred. Just when Satan’s fall happened is not mentioned. The two trees allowed man to make a choice, and the wrong choice was made. God did tamper with our choice. The dust of the earth is where man comes from, and that’s where our bodies will return. When God’s breath of life leaves our bodies, it’s our souls His Spirit takes interest in.
It all boils down to choice, and do we obey God or not. According to Genesis 3:15, God was already revealing a great plan to defeat Satan. When Jesus Christ came into this world, and rose from the dead, the head of Satan took a deadly blow.
@Susan
Yes we have a choice. True obedience comes from the opportunity to disobey. But in response to Marina I do not believe that it was in Adam and Eve’s nature to sin. The made the choice to believe in the lie. All those who are in Christ are a new creation. We have been given a sinless nature. However, we still have the choice of living out of that nature.
Yes, they believed they would be like God. They got what they wanted, but did not foresee the end result.
A&E born in the image of god? That would make god predisposed to sin like them. (Now that actually kinda makes sense when considering all the slaughter he authorized. Especially the killing of innocent babies.)
Anyway, believing a lie doesn’t denote sin, Rob. Think about it. Being deceived is not willful rebellion.
“All sin is rooted in lies. ” Chapter and verse, please?
And the rest of what you said is just a bunch of hullabaloo and excuses for why you christians can’t stop sinning like Jesus commanded. The wages of sin are death. Jesus conquered death and hell on the cross. That means he conquered sin. Conquered it for you and everyone who has been born from above and who abides in christ. You are called to be HOLY as he is holy, through the process of sanctification. It doesn’t happen automatically after you encounter Christ. You are to crucify the flesh and the lusts thereof by the power of his shed blood. Is your god a weak god or does he indeed have the power to transform a life and make it pure and holy in his sight? What sin did Jesus not put under the cross? If there is one that you can think of, then you are permitted to indulge. But according to the book, he covered ALL sin. So you are therefore without excuse when you sin. The Israelites couldn’t stop rebelling against their god by their own sheer will and religious works. But Jesus came along with the GOOD NEWS that you can have dominion over sin here in this life. You no longer have to be a slave to sin! That’s the good news!
So how is it that there are so many people naming the name of Jesus and the lives of them are full of worldliness, carnality. Answer – there must be some different kind of gospel that’s calling the people. A gospel that is harvesting souls and allowing them to remain in the same patterns of sin! Today the cross is just a powerless tool of religion used for religious manipulation.
The bible says the demons acknowledge that Jesus is lord. But the demons do not have salvation. Just because you call him lord, does that mean you are saved? Maybe the church has overlooked something other than believing that Jesus is lord and doing works. “Not everyone who says to me, ‘lord, lord…’”. Not all believers will be saved? Why do you suppose Jesus would say that?
The demonstration of holiness, sinlessness in the life of a believer will be the proof of the gospel in this earth. The church has made the cross of no effect to change lives. Sanctification of the soul is the most serious thing in the life of a believer. It is a missing character trait in the church today. The world needs to see a demonstration of a holy man again. Todd Bentley et al. and their silly outward manifestations don’t even come close to being a demonstration of the power of the holy spirit to sanctify the life of a believer.
Maybe when this happens, I will believe again.
@Marina
“Let us make man in our own image, according to our own likeness…” Genesis 1:26
There is no sin in God. He is absolute perfection and completeness. Sin entered the world through the disobedience of man. Adam and Eve’s didn’t sin by eating of the ‘forbidden fruit,’ their sin was that they didn’t trust God. ‘If you eat it you will become like God.’ Why was this a lie? Because they had already been made in His image and likeness. The devil convinced them that in order to become like God they had to do something of their own effort (eating the fruit). They simply did not trust God and believe who He said they were, instead they had faith in what the devil said. The devil attacked their identity.
“Anything that is not of faith is sin” Romans 14:23
I never said believing in a lie was sin, rather it is the root of the sin. Adam and Eve acted out of a lie rather than faith, thus they sinned.
We must realize that we are not sinners because we sin, we are sinners because we were born that way. A day old baby who has never committed a sin is still a sinner because he or she was born into sin. All men born from Adam inherited the sinful nature. We are sinners by birthright.
We can all agree that through the death of Jesus on the cross, the old nature was killed. We were crucified with Christ. Our old man is DEAD. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. Notice that the crucifixion is past tense. No where in the Bible does it tell us to ‘crucify the flesh.’ God does not require us to crucify ourselves. We were crucified when He was. PAST TENSE. IT IS DONE. The old man was buried with Him and when He rose again we rose again. We are a new man.
Holiness is not about perfection, or the eradication of some evil within. Holiness in the Hebrew sense means something ‘set apart.’ Holiness means being set apart unto the Lord. “Present yourselves unto God, as alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God” (Romans 6:13).
There is a lot more I can say about this but it is late…until next time.