The Cry becomes a “movement” to “go global”

By Rick Hiebert. All Rights Reserved. Used by Permission.

The Cry, Faytene Grasseschi’s prayer event, is now a global movement.

The last Cry, which was held about a month ago in “Hollywood”, could prove to be the start of something big if the Canadian evangelist has her way.

The next Cry is set for somewhere in Toronto, Ontario, or the surrounding area, for July 28. It’s the first Cry under the auspices of The Cry Movement.

Bigger. Better. Boom!” Faytene tweeted on March 26, followed by this Facebook announcement shortly afterwards:

Faytene Grasseschi
Wednesday at 9:28pm •
We just started a new FB page and Twitter for TheCRYs going forward. It is called TheCRY Movement. We will be linking all info about upcoming CRYs there :). Whoot! Be the first to join. TheCRY Movement Twitter: TheCRYMovement FB Page: Let’s do this thing!!

“….Building this thing from the bottom up to go global!” she later tweeted.

The Cry Movement’s webpage is here and you may check it out on Facebook here.

But, what I quoted earlier seems to be it so far. Although there is a suggestion on Faytene’s revamped biography page that says:”TheCRY Movement – Prayer for entertainment media.”

Some cautions, if I may.

Previous Cry events, mostly in Canada, have been a series of “one of” events. Faytene and those working with her, would wait on The Lord in prayer, and then “The Lord” would lead them to do specific Cry events for specific reasons at specific times. The Cry event in Vancouver was held, Faytene explained at the time, because Vancouver was a gateway to Canada and so multicultural a city that a revival there could impact the world. The timing was key because of the upcoming Olympics in that city.

The Cry events are laudable at one level, dominionist at another, so carrying them on could be useful in some ways, bad in others. But what I am wondering is why “The Lord” wants this to be a full time job and not something unique and special as it was before? Hopefully Faytene will pass this on.

Is Canada what Faytene, following how she feels she was led, hopes it to be? Or in moving on to “the entertainment Industry” is she hoping to address an issue where she could do some good, but know that she will be occupied for the rest of her days?

First the Liberian poor, then the Canadian “movers and shakers” and now Hollywood folks with enviable jobs. The mission fields seem to be getting more and more fun. Not that I would want to disparage those who have been making tireless efforts to be a good Christian influence on Hollywood, as I repect what they do in their thankless task. It’s just the latter mission field would be a lot easier to recruit various sorts of help for than the former.

Saving a Hollywood star may seem more glamorous and fun than saving a Liberian refugee, even though God loves them both the same.

Here be dragons, as it were. So, let’s hope that if Faytene is hearing from God accurately about what she needs to do, she watches for the pitfalls.

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44 Responses to The Cry becomes a “movement” to “go global”

  1. Roger Armbruster says:

    Rick, on this post, I appreciarte your emphasis that God loves the Hollywood star and the Liberian refugee just the same. Our prayers are also with you that if Faytene is doing what God wants her to do, that she will avoid the pitfalls and the hazards that go with one’s obedience to any call which involves a journey perilous.

  2. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    I grew up a holy roller, we used to sing like this for hours. What did we get? I remember that our minister was a lesbian (don’t get me wrong, lesbians can still be very good people and god loves them), was fired by the board, and our next pastor was a drunk, and the following one was a schemer. His son was like a rock star. The church owed much money and had a preacher that came with this message from ‘the Lord’ that ‘our winter was over, that our church debt of several millions dollars would be forgiven.’ No, it was not, until the millionaire Patterson gave his money, the church was in steep debt. god was not there, Patterson was. I sat in the pews and listened to all these crap. god did not come and jesus did not show up in a cataclysmic, second coming event. In the meantime, all these village idiots got themselves fired by the church. The lesson is effectual: there is no such god in what they preach. I think you will have to be mad/crazy believe in something like this. So I no longer go to a church like this, or for that matter to any church now.

    ……….diary of a former holy roller. The Lord Ben Chung.

  3. Roger Armbruster says:

    Ben, I would be interested in your story as to how, at some point in your past, you could have been both a “holy roller,” and a board member at Prairie High School. Did your “holy roller” days come before or after your Prairie days?

  4. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    Bear Brother Armbruster:

    I try not to distract others from commenting on The CryMovement. My personal journey begins in Vancouver, BC, in the 80′s, attending the infamous Glad Tidings Temple. It is part of the Latter Rain Movement. Much of these ‘praise and worship styles’ to day, I do believe trace to the holy rollers of my time. We jumped up and down and rolled around when the ghost comes on you, and prophesy as the spirit leads, and we were all drunk in the wines and spirits of the holy rollers. Many things seemed to have happened, and as dominionists we want our world changed to fit us. (in case others wonder what that meant: it taught that we ought to coerce the innocent public to enact biblical laws and make theological jesus into the Governor of the land, thus the term, ‘he shalt have dominons from sea to sea.’ ) For the uninitiated Americans, this is the motto on the Canadian coat of arm (from sea to sea). For us back then, it was a way to subvert the humanistic and secularist culture from within, we were the literally the foot soldiers for the Religious Right in Canada. Many of teachers from the Temple Academy were nuts, crazy, literalists, and religious fundamentalists. I went to Prairie High in my grade 12th year, and was saved from these crazy holy ghost filled rollers of the most high. But it was trading one for another, I became quite a follower of another sect of the faith, and was steeped in the inerrancy none-sense, and worship the god of Prairie and believed in his works, until I was taught by the Lord Ohlhauser that there is no god, but God. In a way, I worship Ohlahuser as a god who taught me that god does not exist.

    I hope to illustrate this faith journey as a warning. To those who use faith to coerce innocent children and to forcifully rape them, abusing the name of god. I hope you believe in a God that will take care of justice. I don’t, I hold you accountable with human justice. It is with human hands that you will be apprehended, and we as a community, will expose your vilest deeds! That is God, that is Divine!

  5. Highrpm says:

    Choose your setting; but always the same conflict–”us against tbem”. But never “the kingdom of the heavens is like a little yeast that leavens the whole loaf.” Never alone. Always a movement, and the bigger the better.

  6. jhc says:

    I suggest that you not provide links to the ravings of sociopaths – they could use one’s personal information to invade one’s privacy. If there be evil, thy name is facebook.

  7. Roger Armbruster says:

    Ben, could it be that in former days, the Glad Tidings had an imbalance of more of the Spirit than the Word, and that Prairie had an imbalance of more of the Word than the Spirit?

    If you have the Word without the Spirit, you DRY up.
    If you have the Spirit without the Word, you BLOW up.
    If you have both together in proper balance, you GROW up.

    I would have thought, at one time, that Faytene would have blown up by now, but what one cannot tell by the outward appearance is how deep of a prayer life a person has, so we can never judge the life of another by the outward appearance.

    It must have been quite a culture shock to move so suddenly in your grade 12 year from one extreme to the other. If you were raised at Glad Tidings, what could have motivated you to go to the other extreme so quickly? The things you say about the holy rollers sound to me like L. E. Maxwell speaking.

    Could it be that both Glad Tidings and Prairie have moderated, and have a greater balance of the Word and the Spirit today? My guess would be that today, they would at least embrace one another as fellow members of the Body of Christ.

    I do know that Jimmy Pattison supports all kinds of charitable causes, not just Glad Tidings.

  8. Wanda Janz says:


    Praying for you.


    Praying for you.


  9. John Payzant says:

    There were screw ups at The Cry Vancouver which can happen at any situation where a lot of information is being given out.

    Faytene denied the mistakes but felt the mistakes lied within my notetaking.

    She corrected all of the mistakes and claimed this was what was said in the first place.

    She lacks the scruples and accountability to admit any wrongdoing on her part but will lay that on the lap of another person.

    I was that other person

    She’s position, money and power all the way

    She’s also got a lot of hatred, anger and animosity within her.

    Why it’s there and where it comes from is maybe beyond me

    I think she likes to get her own way and anything that’s not to do with it or isn’t like her she’ll run from here to kingdom come.

    I’m really not too suprised by this latest move of her

    But at the same time wonder, what’s she going to do next?

    She’s a nasty person and seems quite shameless and in denial about it too.

  10. joshua of omaha says:

    good article and points rick.

    btw: if the cry folks really cared about hollywood,

    why arent they leading the cause for people to pray for singer robin gibb’s health problems

    or the legal problems as of late for actress amanda bynes

    oh that’s right, the cry folks are Domionists and the NAR/Domionist folks care more about power than praying for celebs

    or helping the needy.

    it’s all about power to the New Apostolic Reformation folks. and they could care less about those who are hurting (either emotionally or physically)

    whether they be someone famous or some poor person in Liberia or even in the USA or Canada.

    if they really cared about folks in the entertainment industry, why are they silent on ms. bynes or mr. gibb?

    Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them (Matthew 7:20). For the tree is known by his fruit (Matthew 12:33)

  11. Roger Armbruster says:

    John, your point is well taken.

    Wanda, blessings!

  12. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    I would thank Wanda Janz, and Brother Armbruster in this conversation. While keeping in mind that as a prophetic figure, my writings are most emphatic and sometimes read as hyperbole. Nevertheless, my own feeling about this Latter Rain is that there is too much water, and it drowns the rational soul of a person. I do not believe that God speaks this way, and doubt very much this is how he spake in the older days. The Latter Rain is about someone who is emotionally unstable, and seeking something extra in his faith, and was handed this ‘spirit’ thing, and the ‘tongue thing.’ I see that in every religion there is a similar experience particularly in the shamanism of my culture. and I am certain you see this in the North American Natives. So I do not equate this form of religious expression with that of the ancient Christian faith. That being said, a lot of my Prairie faith is also non-historical, ie. this salvation by grace alone by the saying of a sinner’s prayer, and the 4 spiritual laws. None of these are biblical or traditional except if one comes from America. This is how they celebrate their religiosity. Look at Brother Warkentin, he has a claim that he has a relationship with God, but he has no religion. This is self-deception. He has nothing but religion, he follows a set of teachings, and some form of dietary laws (he does not drink blood like the natives of America), he probably attends religious meetings regularly, and gives regularly, and tries to force it on others. He perhaps prays regularly and supposely his god hears him. But his emails are full of hate, and I have witness his animosity to someone who has just came forth as a survivor. He says he is the hammer. This is the hammer theology that is worth damning. If you just look at Brother Warkentin, he is a fundagelical, which I was. Taught by the same faith, re-baptized at the age of 16, a follower of Child Evangelism Fellowship (at least 3-4 times), worship LE style austere faith, almost enrolled at Prairie Bible college, read almost all the writings of Francis A Schaeffer, and hated the liberals, atheists, and feminists, and gays. Thought the world is better if it is England, and Christian. For many years, kiss the feet of these fundamentalists and apologists, believed in a 6 literal day creation, and to this day, an idiot of evolution-hater. Remember I went to UToronto and Harvard, and yet the damage is done, I cannot read anything with evolution in it. My Christian school education from Temple Academy did the most damage.

    As for the reason why I went from Temple Academy to PHS, the answer is simple. I lived with my uncle for 4 years and it was time to move out, and my Temple Academy is a non-accredited piece of crap. I cannot get into any school(s) in Canada at that time. It has to be shut down, since its diploma using Bob Jones Material and its unorthodox way of teaching (ACE) was way to damaging for any child. As I said before, I love my high school (PHS), and it gave me a very decent education. That is why I continued to give and my family continued to give, and referred many other kids to this school. This was my last Romance with faith, at the end, I met Brother Ohlhauser, the god of Prairie at the time, and submitted to him and his holy teachings about corporation America (for he came from Liberty U. and its teaching was like that). As a god he did more damage to the school than all of the Prairie’s past presidents combined. He became the lightning rod and god spake and spank through him. God smack a lot of the people and continues to do so even today, through the works of Ohlhauser. May his name and be at peace within himself, o god of Prairie, thou the victor, and by this sign , conquer , and ignore the sexually abused kids of Prairie. Thou continues to be the model we look to, o Thou the god of hate, anger and destruction. Many people lost their way because of thee, o thou the HauserGod!

  13. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    Here is a response to the CRY. I no longer see this type of faith and religious expression helpful in my journey. All I can see is my former self, getting hyped and energized and high on the jesus of their faiths. I see that young ones most vulnerable and as a rule, I advise anyone here to stay away, and always move out of its way. And get the kids out of the way as well. If you worship God, submit to him, why put your soul in the hands of a young girl who probably did not go through the rigorous Jesuit training on church, theology, and philosophy. When your emotional button is pressed, you will lose your soul. A warning by the Prophet The Lord Ben Chung. Amen.

  14. John Payzant says:

    Maybe the infamous Faytene Grasseschi Kryskow will make another appearance in this blog?

    Lord Ben Chung

    Worship Invasion was founded by Ed & Wendy Rubuliak while at Glad Tidings Church

    They were allied with Faytene at The Cry Stanley Park

  15. John Payzant says:

    There is a Church in Abbotsford called ‘Abbotsford Christian Assembly’ or something

    like that is where the pre-Cry was held. One of the Pastors is also a Rubuliak

    obviously Ed’s brother. Some of the staff use the title ‘Apostle’.

    Worship Invasion is obviously New Apostolic Reformation and Latter Rain.

    These people are quite hateful, dangerous and play dirty pool.

    They seem to talk fast, too fast is a sign of talking down, controll, delusions of grandeur

    They sure gossiped and slandered the living daylights out of me shows what kinds of persons they are.

    Look at them as closely as I did and if they notice the same thing might happen to you as happened to me.

    1 Venue/month = tax free money from the offering pots.

    That’s what they protect!

    They don’t tell the Evangelical Churches they’re NAR is fraud

  16. brano says:

    Just more of the same from Faytene….More Hype…Bigger,better,newer events to keep the lemmings interested….
    As per Faytene,s prophetic edge…I doubt is she is correct 10% of the time!?

  17. Roger Armbruster says:

    A mature faith needs to be transformed from being initially motivated by external figures and personalities (who will invariably disappoint) to one which is motivated by the internal knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ, in whose light everything external fades and grows strangely dim in the light of His majestic and transcendent glory and grace.

    All of these human personalities are fallible. What about you, John? Has your disapointment in Christian ministries caused you to see Jesus in a diminished light? In short, my question would be, 1) do you see Jesus in the light of these ministries with all of their foibles, failures and shortcomings, or 2) do you see these external ministries in the far greater and surpassing light of knowing the Majesty of Christ, in comparison with which, everything else, including our own best efforts, are but as dung in comparison?

    An externally focused religion will always find fault. It cannot be otherwise, because everything in the external realm has been corrupted by pride, by vanity, by self-seeking. It is all around us. But getting to know Christ personally on a deeper level allows us to see other human beings, in fact, all human beings, in a different light. We begin to see that in spite of their faults, there is not a human being on the face of the earth that does not have some good points, or from whom we can learn nothing. The knowledge of Christ begins a change of attitude in us that enables us to see some good, something of God’s image, in every human being. We need one another. Not?

    My concern on these blogs is that some people will either idolize Faytene as if she could do not wrong, or, on the other hand, others will so trash her that they cannot see, in spite of the faults, that their may be some redeeming qualities in her. I find for myself, that if God uses me, my greatest temptation is pride, but if I seem Him using somebody else, in spite of my knowledge of their weakness, I am prone to become jealous.

    It is seeing the negative only that is behind most of the misunderstandings, the conflicts, and the inability to reconcile with others that is far too prevalent in the world today.

    I am not saying turn a blind eye to the faults, but I am saying, do not turn a blind eye to their good points. Trust the ability of your fellow man to discern for themselves between truth and error before painting somebody either all black or all white. Otherwise, you may one day be similarly caricaturized by others in ways that add to the injustice.

    Let me be a little kinder
    Let me be a little blinder
    To the faults of those about me
    Let me praise a little more
    Let me be when I am weary
    Just a little bit more cheery
    Think a little more of others
    And a little less of me

    Let me be a little braver
    When temptation bids me waver
    Let me strive a little harder
    To be all that I should be
    Let me be a little meeker
    With the brother that is weaker
    Let me think more of my neighbor
    And a little less of me

    A good day to one and ALL!

  18. brano says:

    The truth is Scriptures tells us as BELIEVERS to discern ALL things!
    Discernment is a Biblical mandate….
    When discernment goes by the wayside….ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE
    nuff said…

  19. Roger Armbruster says:

    Discernment is the trait of judging wisely and objectively. It discriminates between truth and lies, light and darkness, good and evil.

    Brano, do you believe that the dividing line to discern good and evil is a line that is drawn between individuals, or people groups, or is it a line that is drawn within each and every human heart, including our own?

    To discern somebody’s heart, you have to know them well from the inside. The great danger on the other side of the coin is that what some like to call the gift of “discernment” is really the gift of “suspicion,” or, worse yet, of “judgment,” where we ourselves assume the role of God.

    If God has given you a gift of discernment, that discernment will not only tell you whata is wrong about a person, but also what is right about them.

    “When discernment goes by the wayside….ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE nuff said…”

    I agree. This is especially true when the “discernment” only sees the black in others, and uses that knowledge to criticize rather than to intercede for grace and for mercy upon all.

  20. Roger Armbruster says:

    For example, Brano, when you say, “As per Faytene’s prophetic edge…I doubt is she is correct 10% of the time!?”

    Is that true discernment, or is it a guess only? Is it 100% accurate? It may have some accuracy, but 100%? If not, are you discerning or speculating only as to how accurate she is? How do you know the degree of accuracy by putting a figure on it.

    What you are saying is subjective, but discernment is objective.

  21. ZMT says:

    a quote I heard once: “those that say they are just brutally honest” are usually more interested in being brutal than honest.

  22. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    O my god, after a little search, Ed’s name came up with Glad Tidings Church. OMG. It seems like the dead does not go away, and the ghost has appeared many times, and everywhere. I run into Bob Jones materials all the time while I was there at their Temple Academy. I have studied the book A Christian Manifesto by Schaefer as a school paper, and learned the first time of civil disobedience. His writings had a dead lock on me for years, until I learned the meaning of dominionism. It took a few years to shake this off, and now I am seeing ghosts again.

    I no longer practice this extreme form of Montanism, of pentacostalism. It has been years since I set foot inside this 3456 Fraser Street, Vancouver, BC. All my other ‘friends’ left Vancouver, and went to the Abbotsford Christian Assembly, this is where they could afford to live. I remember Doug Moody, the music minister who passed a few years ago, and his music was at least respectable. What has happened since??? It looks like every time I look at this extreme form of Christian religion, it is all about money and control. Been there, done that, please sell crazy some place else, we are all stocked up here.

    One small note, fundamentalist children were the worst kind of friends you do not want to have. I had four years at this Glad Tidings, and never made a single friend. What a brutal place, besides been constantly scared about the 2nd coming that will never take place? Look, Jesus has been dead for a long time, and his bones are probably in Palestine. Quit scaring people about his ghosts! I am quoting Lloyd Geering, and inferred by Bart Erhman.

  23. fjc says:

    Ben…the only thing I remember was Bernice Gerrard going on, and on , and on about Wreck Beach.

  24. brano says:

    “How do you know the degree of accuracy by putting a figure on it.

    What you are saying is subjective, but discernment is objective.”

    I hear what you are saying friend,However,if one looks at Faytene’s “prophetic record”,you will see clearly,that what I am saying is TRUE,and not some silly guess!

    I am so tired of wannabe,self acclaimed “prophets”….a dime a dozen…aheeem

  25. Roger Armbruster says:

    Thank you Brano. I feel heard.

    I find that for myself, I am continually challenged to despise not prophesyings, but to prove, or to test all things, and then to hold fast only to that which is good. I Thess. 5:20, 21.

    Good day, my friend.

  26. John Payzant says:

    Roger Armbruster

    No, I don’t see Jesus in a diminished light.

    It all depends on the individual

    The Lord Ben Chung

    Ed & Wendy Rubuliak did come from Glad Tidings

    Abbotsford Christian Assembly is where another Rubuliak is a minister at.

    Also, there is another person there with the title ‘Elder/Apostle’

    This is where Faytene’s The Cry paired up with Worship Invasion before The Cry happened in Stanley Park.

    Both Faytene & Worship Invasion do their Venues at the Evangelical Churches

    The personality entities of these groups is similar as well.

    Thanks to Dennis Gruending of Bene Diction Blogs On about his discovery of The New Apostolic Reformation, NAR.

    These are pretty scary people

  27. Roger Armbruster says:

    A wise leader said the Church is like a pendulum–it is constantly swinging back and forth to find a place of balance. As the years have gone by, I’ve come to realize that this pendulum never stops, but continues to swing from side to side as the Church enters and departs different seasons of life and development.

    I have lived long enough to see the Church change and transition over time. I have seen the pendulum swing widely through areas of understanding regarding distinguishing between what is gospel and what is culture, the ministry of the Spirit, interpretations of God’s sovereignty, and a host of other issues.

    This continuous motion of the pendulum is not because God is unsettled, or even that the church is neurotic; it is because from our viewpoint we only see things in part, not the whole, and all of us are on a constant search for balance.

    This is how the Church moves forward–we advance by reconciling imbalance. Someone once told me that the very act of walking is linked to a series of movements that have us seeking balance with each new step. To walk forward, we need to let go of our last foothold and pass through a swinging gait of imbalance to gain a new balanced foothold.

    I have learned that the pendulum is a teacher. Too many times I have felt I had some current issue all figured out, and then God had me sit in front of the swinging pendulum, and simply watch. As I watched, I realized that some of what I thought ten years ago, I no longer processed the same way today.

    Those people and ministries I disapproved of years ago are now closer in thought and fellowship to me than ever before. The swinging pendulum has taught me to let go of snap judgments, and it has freed me to wait a while until the pendulum swings back my way with a new and clearer understanding of what is taking place in the Church.

  28. Rick Hiebert says:


    I’d love to get imput from Faytene again, but don’t expect to…

  29. Susan says:

    Does The Cry global movement try and come together for revival, lets say for a city, nations and the world? We have The Global Day of Prayer in our city that works with different churches, that sponsored this day on April 29, 2012. There is an International University in our city that helps get this message out. Our global day of prayer is geared towards joining christians in over 200 countries. How many countries are behind The Cry?

  30. Marina says:

    Roger I have to disagree. You are only looking at the church’s “transition” within the span of your lifetime. Consider how the church has transitioned since its imperial beginnings. The church has been an institution of darkness, conspiring to do evil since 381 AD. It stole ancient Egyptian gods and mythologies and made a new religion with a new twist. Took the pagan holidays, called them Christian and to this day claim them as her own. It instituted the Golden Rule for centuries – he who has the gold, makes the rules…and writes the history.

    Consider its brutal intolerance of contrary beliefs or reasoning that discredited her dogma. Its destroying invaluable libraries and artifacts to obliterate the culture that would not bow. Its torture and burnings of human flesh of even those who confessed Christ. Its advocacy of witch hunts and slavery. Oppression of women and abuse of children. Its clamouring for worldly wealth and stately power in the name of god.

    The “church” has lied, stolen and murdered its way to power and longevity. That is how it outlived other ancient religions and survived.

    This is your church. Over its lifetime.

    Is this the pendulum of which you speak Roger?

    How do you suppose it, the church, “transitioned” from inquisitor and executioner for so many centuries to the passive, peaceful, albeit far from perfect, entity it is today? Here’s a hint – the World, people, society, evolved and became a better place century after century, not because of the church, but in spite of it. The church did not show us the way. We showed it.

  31. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    I second the motion on Mariana and her (or his) views. I, too, was brought up to make sure the entire world turned English/American and Christian. I was also brought up as a Christian Zionist on the account of the premillenial second coming, now that my theology has a place for the Jews. Until then, the Jews had a bad rap and was due for extermination under the guidance of the church, since the church usurped their position, and replaced them(called the Replacement Theory). If you read the Sacred Jewish texts, the amount of killing ad justification is incredible. Their god is tribal and killed a lot of Egyptians and Canaanites. This book is filled with blood and I am not surprised the readers of this book also condone massive genocides of the Jews and others who differed. The church history is similarly written by blood, not of martyrs, but those they killed for the sake of their faiths, and all the pagans they killed (one particularly brought to mind was this publicly ripped off a woman philosopher, shamed her and ripped her flesh off the body).

    If one is a dominionist, like this CRY thing, this would also be the end result, They want a complete control for god, and perhaps they would use emotionalism and authority to make JonesTown II possible. There is no utopia and holy ghost cannot control what its followers do when they attain and enmass power, money and people. It is most likely they will also abuse their followers. In the end, they will sexually assault the young ones and end up with what we did have and do have at the Prairie Bible Institute. It is a lesson worth learning.

    Mariana, keep bringing up the history of the church and help others who are utopians to remember its ugly past. It is from these bloody lesson we learn not to allow these folks to take over the whole world (dominionism). And help to save human civilization and decency.

  32. brano says:

    I believe distinction,separation and clarity between the Church & Religion are needed!
    We all know that these can be twisted 6 ways from Sunday…

  33. Marina says:

    Thanks Ben. Story in a nutshell. I have wasted the first 40 years of my life on a serious quest to know this bible god and his will for my life. He was neither to be found in any flavour church (tho the Pentecostals say they have dibs on the spirit) or in the stillness of solitude. I was not content to be a Country Club Christian, but I took the words of Paul seriously – “who are you Lord, and what do you want me to do?” A realist, I was not content to allow myself to be coerced into “feeling” the moving of the spirit just to be a part of the herd. Manifestation of spirit is purely psychological, but like a drug, the addicts insist it is god. I determined if god was God, he would show himself to me in a way in which I could say without a shadow of doubt that it was Him. After much time, the divine no-show spurred me to question, and the study of history and the case against the christian christ ensued. Not an easy task for one who so desperately wanted to believe there was someone looking out for me, but again, if god was God, he was big enough to protect me from the enemy destroying my faith. Needless to say, I’ve done my due diligence and ended up the way I was born into this world – godless. And free.

    Before exiting religion, while contending for the faith, my husband and I were determined to expose the obviously corrupt ministers out there, like Faytene, picketing churches wherever these crooks were appearing. Of course it made us very unpopular with every flavour of Christian, but we were holding these guys to accountability under authority of their god’s word. (Public exposure and rebuke of false prophets, etc. is biblical.) We were particularly focused on one ministry, the Miracle Channel, with Dick Dewert and co. Though no longer defending the faith and exposing the wolves, we’ve left the website up for anyone to peruse the history of the Miracle Channel in Lethbridge.

  34. brano says:

    godless.And free?

  35. Roger Armbruster says:

    Marina, you are looking at the history of the church through the lens of the church as an institution, particularly in Europe and in North America, wherever the church has been ruled by the love of power rather than the power of love. What has any of that got to do with Jesus Christ? Please be aware that Christianity is not a white man’s religion, nor is it a western religion or institution. Jesus Himself was not even a westerner, and certainly did not think in the individualistic, self-centred worldview that many westerners do.

    What I find of interest that in many of the same countries where people have been hurt the worst whenever the church has been a part of the imperialists or the colonizers, yet it is not in Europe or in North America, but in those very Third World countries and nations that the church is now growing by leaps and bounds, not as an institution, and not as a western religion, but as an indigenous movement, as it was in the beginning.

    What you might find of interest is that even here in North America, that an authentic Christian faith is flourishing most, not among the westerners, but among the Inuit, and the indigenous peoples, the original peoples of the land.

    In every history, in every culture, in every people group, there is a history of both the precious and the worthless. Your selection of church history of even the institutional church, for all of its sins, is still one-sided and unbalanced. Even former First Nations Grand National Chief Phil Fontaine has now come to a place where he recognizes that this history has two sides, not the one side that you love to grovel in as if it were the whole of reality.

    Just yesterday, I came across this article in the Winnipeg Free Press about Phil Fontaine, the former Grand National Chief.

    Former Assembly of First Nations national chief Phil Fontaine issued his own apology — to the Catholics who had shown goodness, but whom he had for years “tarred with the same brush” in “indiscriminately” expressing his bitterness and anger at his treatment as a child in the residential schools.

    “That was unfair,” Fontaine said. “I’ve been thinking about this for a long time. It’s been a struggle to find some balance in this tragic history.”

    This is only the tip of the ice berg. I know of many chiefs, including some grand chiefs, who openly identify themselves as Christians, and as a part of the Church of Jesus Christ, in spite of the residential schools. Why is this so? Why are Native people who have been hurt by the church which you describe now finding healing through the Jesus who is all about the power of love rather than the love of power? Please check out the 2-minute video clip. This is a ministry that I identify with.

    To lump me in with those who are anti-semitic, and who believe in replacement theology, is as big of a misreading of who I am as you can get. It is sheer ignorance. In point of fact, how would you imagine that I could identify with the indigenous peoples of many nations, including the Maori of New Zealand, the Aboriginees of Australia, the indigenous peoples of Fiji and Samoa, the Inuit of Greenland and Canada, the Samis of Arctic Norway, Sweden, Finland and Russia, and the First Nations of Canada, and take them to Israel, to identify with both the Jewish and the Palestininian people, and even the Gypsies, and all who have been oppressed, and seeing them sing together, and laugh together, sharing their songs and their dances and their instruments for the glory of the Creator.

    I know the side of history which you describe, but it does not tell the whole story, unfortunately, but the part of history which you describe is a history of what has happened every time that the church has abandoned its mandate to be an organism that heals and reconciles rather than an institution that oppresses. Whenever the church stops being the church, and starts using the oppressive and coercive powers of the state, it starts to oppress and to hurt the very people that it has been called to heal and to reconcile.

  36. Roger Armbruster says:

    “The church has been an institution of darkness, conspiring to do evil since 381 AD.” –Marina. It is the church of the first century that I aspire to. What happened prior to 313 A.D. when the church survived the most vicious and suppressive persecution that has ever been documented?

    “It (the Church) stole ancient Egyptian gods and mythologies and made a new religion with a new twist.” –Marina. I should have hoped that it would have some kind of a “new twist” from the oppressive gods of Egypt, for goodness sake.

    In ancient Egypt, RELIGION was the principal unifying and creative force. People saw divine forces at work in every aspect of nature, and every form of human endeavor was meant to serve the gods. There is no freewill in Nature where everything is deterministic, and governed by natural law, where there is no freewill or freedom of choice. This was certainly reflected in the autocratic rule of the Pharoahs, who were worshipped as god, and who controlled society with an iron fist if there was ever any disent, or freedom of thought, speech and action.

    The iron-clad laws descended from the gods. Kings administered these laws with the assistance of priests who revealed for them the will of the gods. In Egypt, the pharaohs themselves were considered gods, and by serving them, their subjects supposedly respecting the divine will, to which freedom of thought was intolerable and ruthlessly suppressed.

    It was the belief that every human life is of equal value, and created in the image of God, that made the great democracies of history possible. That was a good twist on the type of government that the ruthless Pharoahs imposed, certainly not allowing any citizen to be their equal free to challenge them without the threat of death.

  37. Roger Armbruster says:

    Folks, even prior to writing the above, which does not get to the heart of what I have to say to Marina, I have been trying since early this morning to post a well reasoned response to the query which he (she) directed towards me. I have tried to post this at least three or four times now, and I am told each time that my post is still awaiting moderation.

    Can anybody tell me what is going on?

  38. Susan says:

    I’ll take a stab at it. I think it’s like a restricted diet. Where you have to not over indulge. Sometimes moderation is not so bad. It can be healthly. I’ve been there and it’s not so bad.

  39. Roger, I think people might be tired of your pontificating on every single topic…no matter what topic is brought up on this blog you have a way of going on and on and on about things that have nothing to do with the topic. I know I will never be on your “blessed friends list” but I will tell you the truth.

  40. brano says:

    Thank you for your sound & solid responses to the trivial comments above

  41. Roger Armbruster says:

    Thank you, Brano, and thank you to ALL. A democracy is a community where people of honour can honourably disagree without being disagreeable.

    For those of you who challenge my thinking, I need you in my life, because we will never grow unless we are willing to engage with those who think outside of our paradigm. That’s why I hang around here. I don’t want to be surrounded only by people who think like I do.

    If you disagree with me, bring it on. No question is too hostile. I believe in questioning, but not in attacking, and we do not have to agree on everything in order to have a friendship and a relationship. Peace be with you all!

  42. Interested Observer says:

    Mr. Armbruster, I would definitely encourage you to pay attention to Ms. Fossen’s words, as they come from someone who is uniquely qualified to speak on the subject of pontificators who “go on and on about things that have nothing to do with the topic”.

  43. Marina says:

    The persecution of Christians by Roman Emperors prior to Constantine is grossly exaggerated. Scholars agree that it is doubtful the government was even aware of the Christian sect until 2nd century C.E. as numbers were small and unorganized. (they were not even called Christians until later)Religious tolerance within the empire, as was common in pagan cultures, remained the status quo for the most part. Nero’s torchings are a fabricated myth. If you care to do your homework, which I know most Christians do not, you will discover that the early church scribes massaged historical writings to the church’s advantage, because…they could.

    Freedom of thought was intolerable and ruthlessly suppressed? “Let’s not forget, in a single day in 1209 at Beziers in the Languedoc region of southern France, more Christians died at the hands of fellow Christians than in the entire twenty year reign of the ‘great persecutor’ Emperor Diocletian – graphic evidence of Christian rather than pagan savagery. ” – Edward Humphreys

    I’m not sure about you, Roger, but most people are highly misinformed of the fact that there is an active controversy as to whether or not Jesus, the main character in the New Testament, is an actual historical figure. The volume of literature is staggering. So is the evidence – the basic premise being that the Jesus character is based on other mythical figures from previous pagan civilizations, thus he was invented, as were his “divine” predecessors. Of course the apologists have much to defend, as they have much to lose.

    I know you don’t want to go there. Most Christians don’t want their faith challenged to that extent or they just don’t care to know. Ignorance is bliss I guess. But if you do, a good place to start is by studying ancient Egyptian gods and the similarities to the Christ story. I first began by reading Tom Harpur’s “The Pagan Christ”. Consider the stories of Jesus and Horus/Osiris. Here’s a quick read

    If you do not feel compelled to examine the foundation upon which your belief system, your church, took root and flourished, it would also stand to reason that your perception of the contemporary church is also jaded, lacking objectivity.

    But I suppose to all who are committed to their religious philosophy, unwilling to embrace the power of reason, these are all just “trivial comments”.

  44. Bene Diction says:


    Comments go into the moderation cue if they have a hyperlink or hyperlinks – they are read by the software as spam or spam bots.

    This is Rick Hiebert’s post, and he is my guest here at BDBO, he is an excellent hard working writer, who deserves better than to have his topic hijacked because you’ve decided to go off-topic.

    Comments are closed.

Comments are closed.