Bob Jones University – payback time for student protester Chris Peterman

From Blog on the Way:

Chris Peterman, one of the founders of the Do Right BJU group, has been expelled from BJU just days before graduation. In a move that was clearly retaliation for his role in organizing the protest against BJU’s decision to put the corrupt and deceitful Chuck Phelps on its board, BJU has pleaded its demerit policy. According to BJU, Peterman was racking up the bad boys necessary to earn an expulsion and they have cited Peterman’s viewing of an episode of GLEE as the major contributor in getting demerits.

Stuff Fundies Like:

Unless they’ve been living under a rock, it’s unlikely that anyone in current or former fundamentalist circles has not heard of the expulsion of Christopher Peterman from Bob Jones University mere weeks before he was to graduate. Although his list of alleged crimes ranges from the inane to the obscure to the downright confusing, there is a deeper story here that is worth considering.

To fully appreciate the significance of this action it’s necessary to retrace the steps of a horrifying story that is all too familiar to many of us. It begins when a man named Ernie Willis raped a young girl named Tina Anderson. The pastor of Tina’s church at the time was Chuck Phelps, a man who by his own testimony not only failed to vigorously pursue justice for Tina but also required her to give a confession of her alleged sin before the church and then aided in removing her from the state and apparently out of the reach of local authorities.

Yet with the fact of his actions revealed both on national television and in a court of law, Chuck Phelps remained a person in good standing with several fundamentalist organizations such as The Wilds and Bob Jones University. Bob Jones not only continued to call him a friend of the college but after the conviction of Ernie Willis then went on to proactively show their support for him by placing him back on one of their own boards. This past December, a few alumni, students, and other concerned individuals attempted an on-campus protest in an institutional environment where protesting is almost unheard of. As may be expected in such an authoritarian environment, very few students joined in to the calls for BJU to “Do Right.” One student agitator, however, stuck to his guns and decided to take the risk. That man is now ex-student Christopher Peterman.

At that time, with the news cameras rolling and the social media spotlight shining on them, Bob Jones University took no disciplinary action against the protesting students. But they did take note of them. They always take note of those who do not come to heel and fit the “spirit” of the University and they wait their chance to exact revenge for this perceived disloyalty.

Outside outcries over the treatment of this student will fall on dismissive deaf ears. It will take those inside Bob Jones University and the authoritarian world of Independent Fundamentalist Baptists to stand with Peterman and stop feeding money, time and loyalty to these draconian leaders.

How vindictive and draconian?  This is the Demerit record put together by a residence assistant assigned to follow Peterman’s every move.  He received demerit points for not shaving – at midnight. The Do Right BJU Group brought outside scrutiny to the rot at the core, and these men play for keeps.  Chuckles Travels has a copy of the drummed up Demerit record.

Why would anyone subjected to such blatant harassment stick it out? Why not just leave? Peterman in his own words:

http://www2.wspa.com/news/2012/apr/26/bob-jones-student-caught-watching-glee-kicked-camp-ar-3681625/

Peterman also released a statement after being expelled.

Media is picking up this story. I doubt the attention will help Peterman get his earned degree; other students who participated in Do Right BJU will probably be targeted and I doubt the US Department of Education and Peterman’s congressman can do anything. Perhaps another conservative religious university will step up and give Peterman an opportunity for a degree, perhaps BJU alumni can help him with any student debt. Perhaps the cast and crew of Glee will come up with a creative way to help out. The more attention Bob Jones University gets, the more they will cry persecution.

As of now 218 people have signed a petition asking BJU to give Peterman his money back for a wasted semester.
BJU and Injustice
FBC Jax Watchdog
Do Right BJU Facebook page

Background: Chuck Phelps resigns from Bob Jones University

About Bene Diction

Have courage for the great sorrows, And patience for the small ones. And when you have laboriously accomplished your tasks, go to sleep in peace. God is awake.
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48 Responses to Bob Jones University – payback time for student protester Chris Peterman

  1. I am so proud of this young man and his courage to stand up for what is right. This story shows the power of one and how we truly can change things if we speak up. This story is not over by any means. Rock on Christopher!

  2. fjc says:

    It does not sound like much of a University to me. Actually, it sounds like the antithesis of what a university should be.

    Bob Jones may have some credibility in some narrow circles but overall it’s reputation is not something to be proud of. I could never understand why anyone would want to attend this place….unless perhaps they grew up in the infamous Westview Baptist Church.

    Absolutely nothing would surprise me about this place, and others like it.

    Makes me thankful that we have a separation between church and state. Can you imagine what it would be like if these clowns were overseeing our Government???

  3. Wanda Janz says:

    I think it’s a shame that Chuck Phelps resigned from his position. We are all entitled to make a mistake and it would have been better for him to have stayed on and learned from his mistake. He sounds like someone who would do that. As for this boy being expelled: sounds like sour grapes. Maybe he should have been more interested in his studies than in the personal vendettas… probably would have been an A student then. However, it is what it is.

  4. harebell says:

    Why would he want to go to another “xian” university? They are all founded on the same values and beliefs and this invariably leads to discriminatory behaviour.
    If you want an education in reality go to a real university, if you want to waste three years just reaffirming stuff you already believe join a chat group online.

  5. fjc says:

    Yes, it is awful when someone in a University setting, a place where free speech, free thought, freedom of expression, and intellectual challenge is championed, that a student would actually stand up for what he/she believes and do the right thing.

    This is certainly not the behavior that we want to encourage in our graduates. We do not want them standing up for what they believe is right. NOT!

    Oops, I forgot that Bob Jones University is not about free speech, free thought, freedom of expression, and intellectual challenge. It is about something that is the complete opposite.

    One good thing….Christopher probably realizes now that it was most likely a mistake to enroll in this so call university and may be able to transfer to an institution of higher learning.

    It is just a shame that he wasted his time and his money.

  6. Sally Davis says:

    “We are all entitled to make a mistake ”

    Sure. But when the “mistake” involves covering up the rape of a minor, subjecting her to humiliation, and shipping her off to give birth to a child that you then force her to give up —– you’ve forfeited your right to deal with minors, in any way, ever.

    “He sounds like someone who would do that. ”

    No, he doesn’t. Chuck Phelps never once admitted any error on his part at all.

    “As for this boy being expelled: sounds like sour grapes. ”

    Yes, it was “sour grapes.” But the sour grapes were in the mouths of the university officials who targeted Chris from the day he dared criticize them. BJU insists that they welcome “constructive criticism,” but they lie. They punish any criticism in any form that is ever voiced against them. They will hound you forever if you dare try.

    “personal vendettas”

    Exactly how was Chris’ involvement in the Tina Anderson story a “personal vendetta”? He didn’t know her. He wasn’t sexually abused that I know of. He just saw wrong and was horrified. This young man was a True Believer. BJU could have had a strong advocate in him had they handled this differently. Instead they chose to show the world what lunatics they actually are.

  7. Wanda Janz says:

    fjc:

    There are no campuses that tolerate that kind of behavior here in Canada. As far back as the 60′s whenever there has been this kind of ‘rhetoric’, the student was expelled. Free speech is not a right here anymore than it really is in the US, no matter what the Constitution there says. Consider the fact that in the US you can and will be arrested for ‘threatening’ the President of the US verbally. It has happened many times as it should. Placing Mr. Peterman in the spotlight just shows how degraded the system has become. He is a sad, pathetic excuse for what the next generation is… there is no use making this guy into a ‘martyr’… he doesn’t have a clue what one looks like. Sorry if my disagreeing with you upsets you any.

  8. Give it a rest says:

    Wanda you have no idea what you are talking about. You do not speak for all Canadians. Please do not give the impression that universities in Canada are against free speech. This is just ignorance. Do your homework. Perhaps you are talking about the private religious institutions. I wouldn’t know about those.

  9. fjc says:

    The fact that you disagree with me in no way upsets me. Actually, quite the opposite is true.

    It would not be such a wonderful world if everyone had the same opinion, thoughts, and predispositions. I was very fortunate to be able to attend two institutions that championed the hallmarks of free speech, free thought, and a healthy discussion of opposing views and politics. These institutions still do to this day-this is what makes them Universities. They are both in Canada and both considered to be world class institutions of learning, research, and thought.

    That is what sets them apart from closed places like Bob Jones. They encourage their students to think for themselves and explore new avenues. Closed environments like Bob Jones University and others of the same ilk have no interest in fostering intellectual thought and stimulation. They are about something altogether different and altogether limiting. They are closed shops in many, many ways from teachings, to censorship, to dress, and to attitudes. How can anyone expect students to grow and mature in such an environment.

  10. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    In my Bob Jones University ‘biology’ text book, I was taught the second coming of Christ. Now that I have graduated with a proper biology degree, I have been always thinking why it was necessary to have the premillenial second coming of Christ taught twice in my ACE/Bob Jones experience. Perhaps the Jonesors live in a different world, where theological fundamentalism is more important than truth. That is, Truth about Christ and his kingdom. I can testify that this man, Chris Peterman, is a man of God. He may not always do the right thing, ie, his moral character may be rebellious (to BJU), but he has a heart for those who are unfairly judged and maligned. He did this FB site against the good part of his school counsel, and knowing that at some point, the old boys would have gotten him. They finally did. Should we raise some moral and monetary support for this man, who has paid for Tina’s advocacy with his own education and future. Amen.

  11. fjc says:

    Wanda:

    Your statement:
    There are no campuses that tolerate that kind of behavior here in Canada.

    Your statement is absolutely incorrect if you are referring Canadian universities and actions such as those taken by Christopher. In fact the student body would have been involved. Bob Jones University is such a closed shop that the other sheep, or should I say students, would not have the intestinal fortitude to participate in an action like this.

    If your statement refers to the fact that no Canadian university would have someone of Chuck Phelps characater on the Board-then you are absolutely correct. They would not.

    But then again, their focus is on education and higher learning, not on being a ‘bridal college’ or a place to ‘straighen out’ errant children.

  12. Tez says:

    The university I went to had an LGBTQ group which was advertised on campus. Further, a group at the local college organized an “Occupy” protest. Sounds fairly free of speech to me, in fact, I don’t believe I ever, in all 7 years and 3 post secondary institutes, saw an example of how free speech isn’t allowed on Canadian campuses.
    I think Wanda needs to fire her fact checker.

  13. fjc says:

    Could it be that the PBI/PCA environment is like this?

  14. Wanda Janz says:

    Actually, I have many friends who are professors in different Colleges and Universities across Canada. When we talked about this earlier, there was a consesus that this man was ‘sprouting sour grapes’ towards the university he had attended for a few years. What most interested us was this man’s total disregard for the place that gave him most of his education and where he ‘disrupted’ the policies in which they have in place. It seems he had ‘thumbed his nose’ at the rules throughout his time there and this was just the last straw. It doesn’t matter what institution you attend, if you are breaking rules consistently, you will be ‘booted out’, as my friend who is a professor at the U of C says. Too many ‘incidents’ disrupts the entire flow and can be tolerated for only so long. One other thing they mentioned was that big colleges and universities do not rely solely on one person’s tuition and therefore can be a little ‘prejudice’ when it comes to taking too much disruption. Other places that are smaller do not have that luxury. Such is the pity.

    My first comment was about Chuck Phelps though. What bothers me about it most is that he felt the need to step down in order to not cause a ruckus about his ‘incident’ in not believing a girl. Ok then, he made a mistake. He should have said he was sorry and then moved on. Why he felt compelled to step down is still a mystery. It baffles my mind that this would happen, especially in the US. Former President Clinton did some ‘nasty’ things in the Oval Office of the White House and still carried on as President, so why would Mr. Phelps step down? I would like that question answered.

    Christopher’s video ‘alleges’ to abuse on the campus. Has this been reported anywhere else? First I’ve heard of it. Bene Diction would have reported it on his/her blog, I’m sure. And now he takes credit for the ‘stepping-down’ of Mr. Phelps and to the current policies in place against abuse. I would sorely like to hear from a student or professor from there to find out if this is true. I have a very hard time believing that if abuse was reported about that school, in this day and age, that it would not have made the front page. Hmmm.

    Once again, this is only my opinion. It was garnered after talking to Professors and former alumni of several secular colleges and universities.

  15. fjc says:

    Are you actually saying that he ‘disrupted’ the university by watching a TV program call Glee or whatever it was? Wasn’t that the final straw that got him out?

    Imagine, watching a TV show-the disgrace of it all. Even worse, imagine any learning environment that could even be bothered censoring, or even consider censoring what someone saw on TV, heard on the radio, read in a book or or the web.

    Wanda, you clearly have absolutely no idea whatsoever what a university environment is all about. If you did, you would not have the opinion that you do.

  16. Cathie Darnell and I were contacted by a Bob Jones University survivor’s group last fall. They have a growing abuse scandal at their university and many of them signed our petition supporting our request for GRACE to come in as a independent third party. Here is the link to their facebook page

    It is interesting to note that these survivors have encountered the same hostility that the PBI abuse survivors have. They are fighting hard to be heard and are petitioning to get an independent 3rd party. So they face the same battle that we do.

    I think it is definitely fair to say fjc that the parallels between PBI/PCA and BJU are striking. I attribute it to the same narrow-mindedness, legalism, and insular attitude that runs rampant in both institutions. The BJU alumni are fighting those speaking out in much the same way that the PBI alumni are.

  17. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    I just watched Chris Peterman, and why he formed Do Right BJU. One of the main reasons is because of love and care. He was brought up k4-12 in a IFB setting, and attended BJU, but his 3rd year, due to financial reason, he had to sit out and worked at a local Walmart, near his mother’s house in FL. There, he met more people from all walks of life, there they helped him to escape his stringent fundamentalism.

    Let me say that we all share different stories how we escaped fundamentalism. But the common thread is that we find life is beautiful without the scaffold of fundamentalism. god and anger are not necessary in my faith. Hate and abuses have no places either. I think this is a great kid, perhaps he will find another way, but in the handling of this honourable person, those in power have shown their true colour. It is red, and filled with hate. I am sorry but in a way, Chris is now out of their clutches. He is first of all, free. No more hate and fear, and no more people over him. To be free is a good feeling. I am completely free of the fear of a hateful, angry god of the fundamentalist. My name is the Lord Ben Chung. Come get me, ye angry god! ye hateful, murderous god!! I mock you! Thus says the Lord Ben Chung. No, I am not going to swear on my friend Bene’s site. But for Chris, God bless you, and keep you, and find a way to enjoy this life. Live it to the fullest!!!

  18. Wanda Janz says:

    fjc: of course, you know me. I have attended colleges and seminars at U of C and SAIT. That and the fact that I have friends with Ph.D’s and who are ‘Doctors’ of Philosophy, Education, others. So, you must be right. NOT.

  19. am24 says:

    Wanda,

    You said, “My first comment was about Chuck Phelps though. What bothers me about it most is that he felt the need to step down in order to not cause a ruckus about his ‘incident’ in not believing a girl.”

    If you follow the links that Bene provided in the article above, and read the news article, you’ll find that the problem was not that Chuck Phelps did not believe the girl. Chuck Phelps believed the girl, and actually reported the incident to the police. This is part of the court record.

    The problem is Chuck Phelps’ horrendous treatment of the girl — making her stand up in front of his congregation to apologize for “her sin,” then sending her away so that the police could not find her and not press charges against her abuser. Her abuser also had to apologize to the congregation, but he only had to apologize for being unfaithful to his wife. There was no mention of his criminal act of sexual rape of a minor in his apology to the congregation, even though Chuck Phelps was aware of this at the time.

    Chuck Phelps’ treatment of the girl, as well as his allowing the abuser to remain in the church, and the media’s appalled reaction to Chuck Phelps’ action, are reasons that led to his resigning his position on the board of a Christian college.

    If there is anyone on the board of any university, let alone a Christian university, who treated a raped child in this manner, as well as not protecting other children from a known rapist, I would not want my children attending that college.

  20. I agree with you fjc, BJU is no school of higher learning, it is a fundamentalist training camp where students are taught a very narrow-minded, legalistic form of religious ideology which ill prepares them for the real world.

  21. fjc says:

    I think part of the challenge is how women are viewed and how they are treated by and in fundamentalist organizations. The attitude towards them is often condescending at best.

    My view is that there are not just not enough women in positions of leadership in churches and faith based organizations. A church that does not permit women in all leadership positions is one that is limiting it’s horizons and doing a dis service to it’s members.

    My wife attends a very large church. I continue to be astounded that there are no women in the Board and that in the recent past they did have a token female minister doing the children’s ministry. It was almost as though they kept her in the back room and only brought her out once in a blue moon to prove that she really was not on the ‘B’ team.

    I would never, ever consider becoming a member of any denomination or church that did not view women as equal in every way and did not have them actively participating in all forms of leadership-from the position of Executive Pastor down to the Board of Managers. That is not to say that the church must have a female Executive Pastor but rather that their denomination would have absolutely no issue with it.

    Many of these self centered, self absorbed, self serving, and sanctimonious organizations could do with a positive change like this.

    It is probably why people like Chuck Phelps appear to obtain ‘get out of jail passes’ for things that the general population would find immoral and indeed in many places would be criminal.

  22. Wanda Janz says:

    Why would Chuck Phelps need a ‘get out of jail’ card?? He has done nothing criminal in the eyes of the law.

    As for women in ministry: Not my cup of tea. Unless they are like Deborah and are actually ‘in the Spirit’, then by all means. If a woman exhibited wisdom like she had, then it would be a crime to ‘hide her in the backroom’. Churches and other organizations would benefit greatly from women like her, IMHO.

  23. fjc says:

    am24 hit the nail on the head – stripped away all the nonsense and got to the heart of the issue.

    Would anyone who has a daughter want her to be treated in this manner??? I would expect the answer to be a resounding NO.

    These are not the actions of a committed, responsible, caring Christian.

  24. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    I think the missing part of our discussion is primarily why a school like BJU (a bible believing school), and a minister like Chuck Phelps did what they did to Chris Peterman and Tina Anderson.

    As I continue to follow Chris in his Do Right BJU, he recently uploaded a video explaining why he formed DO Right BJU. In it, he states, his sister was raped by an IFB church deacon (if I remember correctly), and as a result got into trouble, and was/is on drugs, and now a lesbian. It has a familiar ring to our story here. This abuser is linked to the IFB group, and this has a deep impact on Chris. [as I stated before, the sexually abused are doomed to a life sentence of violence, drugs, and problems].

    Another reason why Chris is not a fundamentalist, is due to his exposure to our regular world. The IFB/BJU world (for that manner, PBI) all lived in a made believe world, where dinos roamed with humans, where the world was made in 6 literal days, where the sons of gods have sex with human daughters. These are myths from ancient times. And they further believe that if prayers are said in the public school and ten commandments are hung in the court room, everything will be well. But it is, a made believe world, and it is not a real world. In my opinion, that is why Chris changed his mind after he took a job with Walmart. In that setting, he met genuine people from all walks of life. They are no more evil than Chris, though they denied the holy spirit, the divinity of Jesus, and the “reality” of a God who made the world. Perhaps there are Christians, but they do not believe the same thing BJU/fundamentalists taught.

    I think we should applaud a young man who stood up in the midst of thousands of silenced voices at BJU. He stood up to be counted and he stood for those of sexually abused, and hold the leaders accountable for the evil in the school. Chuck is a sinner, I know so, he is a swindler of money and fame and in this case, a cover up and tried to save the fore-skin of his church deacon. It is a evil thing he did to Tina Anderson, and every decent human being ought to be outraged at this despicable thing he did to Tina. If there is a god, it is time he should come and show up. I would demand this god apologize for not protecting Tina and Chris and for not shutting the doors on BJU so they can no longer bully so many young minds.

    Wherefore art Thou, Romeo?? The answer is out there.

  25. Wanda Janz says:

    am24: I just read your comment; it was probably under ‘mediation’ (not the right word – Bene help me out here. It’s what you do to a new post. thanks). Sorry for that delay.

    Where does Chuck Phelps preach? Or minister in a church? Sorry, must be missing that. As for placing a raped victim in front of a church body and ‘making her repent of her sin’ (if this is indeed true): Are you kidding me??? What is the church ‘body’ full of… zombies!! No sound human anywhere would put up with that crap! EVER!! As for carting her off somewhere, where did he get the ‘power’ or ‘permission’ to do such a thing??? Where were this child’s parents??? None of this resonates with what one would believe as true. So again I ask… where is the truth in all of this and if this really did happen with the girl, where in GOD’s Name are the humans hiding there hearts and more importantly, their minds??

  26. Wanda Janz says:

    Ok. Just googled Chuck Phelps and read the ‘Answers to Tough Questions’ part as well as Tina’s mother’s statement through a lawyer. Seems that this issue being reported in the media is NOT being shown correctly at all. It also seems that ‘facts’ are not ‘correct’ anywhere in the media as to what really happened and the outcome of the individuals. It never ceases to amaze me what can get twisted in the media. Sometimes it IS better to look at all angles instead of jumping the gun. My questions above (last post) were answered by Tina’s mother and Chuck Phelps. ALL the questions asked on this blog were. Except Christopher’s issues. Those remain to be seen.

  27. fjc says:

    I would never, ever send my child to a Bible School, a Bible College, or for that matter any non secular university for a general education of for pre university classes.

    I want them to have a normal, balanced educational experience where they are exposed a much more balance view of society and religion.

    I guess that is the reason why so many Bible Colleges, or perhaps I should say Bridal Colleges are folding. Those who have no intention of following a career in the clergy quickly find our the value of their so called degrees once they are out in the real world.
    Parents are waking up to the fact that there are much safer places for students than Bible Colleges.

  28. I am not sure how the media “twisted” this story when they have consistently said the same thing about Chuck Phelps. I am also not sure how anyone associated with PBI can be shocked by what Phelps did to Tina Anderson. BJU is using the same playbook that PBI has been using for years. As recently as 2002 a 14 year old girl was raped by a fellow student on campus and PBI refused to call the RCMP but did expel the girl. After he was later convicted, she was re-admitted but not allowed to be involved in any social activities with guys. She got a settlement of a mere $25K which was a cheap way to buy her silence.

    It goes back to what you are saying fjc, so many of these conservative religious organizations still view women as second class and think the men “can’t help themselves” for “moral failures”. In the case of Tina Anderson, there is no scenario where she had anything to apologize for. She was still a child – he was the adult. It was all on him. But alas, she must have been the “temptress” and the poor guy “couldn’t help himself”. It is so sick the way these organizations think.

    I have to say that this excuse of “being unfaithful to my wife” covers a multitude of sins. When a man rapes a child – it is not being “unfaithful to his wife”, it is being a sexual predator. PBI had a man on staff for many years who had sexually abused 5-7 missionary kids in the Philippines before coming to the school. He was kept on staff for years even as these missionary kids came forward one by one to the school. Finally when one of the mothers threatened to expose the truth, he was let go. He was forced to apologize to the student body and guess what he said “he was unfaithful to his wife”. Child molesters don’t get to use that as an excuse – they were not having “affairs” with these children – they were preying on them!

  29. fjc says:

    Well, there is a HUGE difference between ‘being unfaithful to you spouse’ and raping or otherwise sexually abusing a minor. One is an indiscretion, the other is a criminal offence.

    But that is the problem isn’t it. Failure to face up to the crime. Letting some creep off the hook by having him ‘repent’ in a false way. And at the same time labouring under the falsehood that you are letting the organization, institute, or leaders thereof off that proverbial ‘hook’. When all the time the only result to enable the perpetrator to do it again-there or somewhere else. Not sure how anyone in a responsible position could live with this. Their veins must be filled with ice water.

    Only to have him wipe his sweaty brow and then start looking for the next victim.

  30. Bene D says:

    Wanda:

    Close. New commenters and comments with hyperlinks wind up in the mod cue – moderation cue. It’s part of how the software keeps spam bots from taking over.

    Ben: Over on the Do Right BJU FB page, Peterman talks about both his sisters and the abuse they suffered in IFB churches. His other sister Debbie was sent away, told to be quiet, had a lot to work through and is now a nurse and an overcomer, advocating for sexual abuse victims.

  31. Susan says:

    There is a scripture in 2 Corinthians 11:12 that I think about when I read this story. Paul pointed out the ill use of letters of recommendations, from false apostles. In other words those who say they are sent to teach about the Messiah, that were really promoting their own gain.

    There is a Hebrew word called Shelakhim, meaning “ones sent”. In the early church apostles were sent to Jerusalem to meet with authorities in the church and even schools. The authorities and schools were important for correct interpretations of the scripture, to point our the way.

    According to Paul the false apostles were like rebels, who answer to no one. I’m sure the church still has the rebels who send the false recommendations today. Those who think they only have to report to God himself. I think they run very tight organizations.

    According to scripture the early church, though not so formal was organized. More about keeping the order and correct interpretations. Today many modern churches and their schools have mangers and organizational graphs about the status of how things are growing.

    With all the growth issues that are out there today , denominational or some other organization, I think the water can get muddled.

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  33. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    Thanks Bene D. I think, the scriptures are right in saying that the sun shines on the good and the evil ones. Perhaps Dao Te Ching is correcting in that the Heaven does to give regards to people, but treat them as if they were dolls (inanimated objects). Here is agood example, that there are these two sisters: Tina and Debbie. One is an overcomer, but the other succumbed to the abused. This is perhaps why we should all the more stand up for the abused. I do believe that no matter how ‘overcome’ these folks are, they have a mark burnt into their soul that perhaps with careful monitoring, and with medication, they can lead a semi-normal life. This is a credit to modern medicine, not to god. I always state this, and will challenge folks who claim that they are completely healed from this type of abuse. NO, they have found a way to live with the captors intheir soul. They cope with their abuses, all their lives. So our response is not to first seek divine healing, but to seek medical and psychological care. And one of the healing processes, is to find resolution, that is, the perpetrators must be brought to human justice. Where as VOM’s Tom, or Tina’s Phelps, or Chris’s sister’s perpetrator (he is dead), this is an important part of their healing. You can substitute with drugs and alcohol, but at some point human’s keen sense of justice takes over. It will continually be so, until it finds a stop button. That stop button is justice for the victims, and the assurance that he will no longer harm others. I am not sure anything less or theological would bring healing.

  34. brano says:

    @Susan
    Very well said!
    I could not agree more…

  35. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    I respectfully disagree with Susan on the early Christianity. Your comments are far from what we know about the history of Christianity, if I do not make it convincing, Marina my sister can. I would like you to google Bart Erhman and watch him on the Youtube to see that much of what you’ve said is a made believe world. The biblical world found in the New Testament, and how they should have conducted themselves, varied a great deal even in the very foundation of Christian schools of thought. We no longer have much other than three branches of Christian School of though, we have currently Rome, and we paid very little attention to Constantinople or to Alexandrian School ( the Greeks and the Copts). American fundamentalists are essential Roman by its back bone and worked like them as well. So your romantic views of churches and early christians way of life is not a reality. What is real, is the there were hosts of competing views and variety of Christian faith, various different Jesuses were competing with each other, and along the way, the Orthodox people with the help of the Roman Empire silenced all the dissenting views. Imagine, if Tatian were correct, we have no use of Jewish texts that are murderous. They would have been excised. If Paul of Somasata was correct, Jesus was a totally divine being with a human form, but he does not have a human rational soul. If St Arius was correct, there was a time Jesus was not. He was a second category god. If Bart Erhman is right, most of the NT books have been forgeries, and we do not really know what is the correct view.

    This I do know is correct, those in power, tend to mess up and abuse others. We ought to hold them responsible. Be it BJU and PBI, or this church pastor, hold them in contempt unless proven otherwise. Look, people, instead of having a golden period of how christians were supposed to have behaved, and how they lived in harmony with god, why not look at our situation here. Chris has been expelled for daring to speak out for the truth. Few folks came to his defense. He had to work at Walmart to finish his school there. The least they can to is to let him graduate, or if not, to refund all his four years of tuition. That is the decent human thing to do. But I see no one here standing up for him, or to write the school administrators on his behalf, it is as if we have witnessed someone getting raped, and we ask for the pop corn and hot dogs. That is the reason why I think god is dead. He had to die, because he followers killed him. Amen. Thus saith the Lord, I mean the Lord Ben Chung.

  36. Susan says:

    Are you the first Lord? If you are, then you can open my hearts door to judge me or pronouce your sentence against me for what I say. If not, I shall not call you Lord. Who can explain the beginning, the middle and the end? I think there, you will find your sign.

  37. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    “The Kingdom of heaven is like a man who wished
    to assassinate a noble. He drew his sword at home, and
    struck it against the wall, to test whether his hand were
    strong enough. Then he went out and killed the noble.”

    Saying of Jesus, The Gospel of Thomas.

  38. David Miller says:

    Chuck Phelps is a criminal. He would be a criminal if he wasn’t so evil and clever. To the Idiot supporters that are left and truly brain dead, I hope you can still be reach. I doubt it.

    I will jsut remind you BJU Phelps supports that Chuck believed he did the right thing calling once or maybe twice to the cops but never believed enough to fill out a police report. Chuck also believed he needed to deceive the people at confession night and make the members at his church believe that the two people Ernest the Rapist and Tina Anderson were not related to each other. If he had noty lied, I am sure the Police would have known then. The poeple on 20/20 in the interview 4 church members were at church on Tina’s confession night and they said all this tyime because of how both Ernest the Rapist said I had an afair (As if Rape is an afair) and Tina Anderson said she got pregnat.

    Don’t you see how Chuck and his Wife Linda (Which disgustingly asked Tina that night how did she like it?) wow. Chuck said the Tina Anderson the little raped 15 year old girl that she would have been stoned if she lived in Old Testament Bible days. Do you think that he said that so she would be scared and shut up or because he really believed she deserved to be stoned?

    WAKE UP YOU IDIOTS that support such liars that are also not at all embarrassed nor repentative for what they did.

    I can tell you taht if he had any and I mean any conviction of doing right that Rapist would have been in jail at least with in a month? Don’t you think OF course and if it were a relative or even a member were I go had this happen, I would have taken him in myself. This man confessed you Idiots to rape top Chuck Phelps himself – Chuck Made sure No One Nnew, not the Cops nor any members!!! Hmmnnn IDIOTS.

  39. really... scratch scratch says:

    Hey guys, remember me :-) I see all the bashing. Wow, you all get so pumped about the church and Christianity. Why don’t you all try on a berka and marry into a harem. You might wish the fundamentals to be your friends.

    I would never attend Bob Jones but they do have a right to expel anyone they want for anything that goes against their rules. My question is why did Chris Peterman go there in the first place. BJU has been around for a long long time and EVERYONE knows what they stand for. So Chris Peterman seems to be a bit dull to waste his education either by attending or by being stupid. I had a friend at JBU who was demerited for listening to Amy Grant. Shortly later he was expelled for doing some other not so crazy thing. Glee must be at least 7 to 9 times worse. So in reality the puck deserved to be a wicked wrister over the glass. I know he is a hero to the lefties here but he is not too bright and his outing from JBU won’t cause any of the changes you might be wishin’ fo’.

  40. really... scratch scratch says:

    Ben, God may never show up in your world, He does not need to answer to you. But, you will answer to Him. The thing is, when every knee shall bow to Him in heaven, it is referring to those people who chose against Him. You would think that realistically once confronted with the glory of God anyone who bends his knee would be sad because of the choices they made and realize they should have been a lover of Jesus. That said, I don’t believe that will be the case. Those who reject Jesus now will continue to reject Him on their way to life forever outside the presence of God. Even after confronting the creator on bended knee acknowledging him as Lord they will reject Him to their second death. Tragic don’t you think?

  41. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    “Strange! that you should not have suspected years ago–centuries, ages, eons, ago! –for you have existed, companionless, through all the eternities. Strange, indeed, that you should not have suspected that your universe and its contents were only dreams, visions, fiction! Strange, because they are so frankly and hysterically insane–like all dreams: a God who could make good children as easily as bad, yet preferred to make bad ones; who could have made every one of them happy, yet never made a single happy one; who made them prize their bitter life, yet stingily cut it short; who gave his angels eternal happiness unearned, yet required his other children to earn it; who gave his angels painless lives, yet cursed his other children with biting miseries and maladies of mind and body; who mouths justice and invented hell–mouths mercy and invented hell–mouths Golden Rules, and forgiveness multiplied by seventy times seven, and invented hell; who mouths morals to other people and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, then tries to shuffle the responsibility for man’s acts upon man, instead of honorably placing it where it belongs, upon himself; and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him!…

    “You perceive, now, that these things are all impossible except in a dream. You perceive that they are pure and puerile insanities, the silly creations of an imagination that is not conscious of its freaks–in a word, that they are a dream, and you the maker of it. The dream-marks are all present; you should have recognized them earlier.

    “It is true, that which I have revealed to you; there is no God, no universe, no human race, no earthly life, no heaven, no hell. It is all a dream–a grotesque and foolish dream. Nothing exists but you. And you are but a thought–a vagrant thought, a useless thought, a homeless thought, wandering forlorn among the empty eternities!”

    He vanished, and left me appalled; for I knew, and realized, that all he had said was true.

    The word of the Lord, the Lord Twain

  42. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    I am not sure whether this is a issue about the lefties or the righteous mighty righties. It is about trying to help this Chris. He paid the price for speaking out. It is like the small town peasant from centuries ago, the one that most our readers revered as God. He speaks the truth and literally gets nailed, and most of our Christians revered that as an act of God, and of mercy. There is no one present would blame him for being so stupid, so vulgar, and it is his fault for getting the nailed. Why should we treat Chris, his follower differently? They have the same image of God, they are doing the will of God?

    If you look closely at Chris Peterman, before you put him on your own cross, Chris is Jesus of Nazareth to me. Thanks, and this is the word of the Lord, that is, of course, the Lord Ben Chung. His teachings are unfathomable. How deep and how wide, between the left and the religious righteous. Amen.

  43. leadmetothecross says:

    Lord Ben Chung, there is only one Lord in this universe. I despise your name, really. I find you hard to follow with no anointing on your words. Are you a Christian or what is up with you?

  44. really... scratch scratch says:

    Well Ben, you spoke one amazing truth and I don’t think you understand what you said.
    I am not religious but I know why you automatically say religious righteous.

    I am righteous to God and for that I am eternally thankful! What are you thankful for? What is there to be thankful for if this is just a dream? If you say nothing you have hit the nail on the head. For you there will be nothing. Everlasting nothing.

    Those of you who have not met God will make fun of those statements but it’s okay… you don’t know Him… you never did. I would hope you would find Ben’s ramblings and plagiarisms just what they are, a cover up. Rather then depend on a God, he does know exists, he would rather pin mans undoing on God. Very sad.

  45. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    I would answer by saying, vanity of vanities, all it vanity! There is but one life to live, so enjoy the toils under the sun. Because where the dead goes, there is no remembrance of them. [that is, no eternal life] These are the words of the sacred scriptures.

    My friend Scratch, I hope you find it in your heart a place for the abused. They are not here, abused, for the glory of God. I cannot and will not see it that way. They are abused not just because of sin, for what god will make a people prone to sin and so they fall into sin. God tempts no one, so says the scriptures. Neither would the natural disaster would explain why these people were abused. What glory would that be for god??

    So, in the words of CS Lewis, and a portion of his Great Divorce, he states at the very end of his allegory. Maybe we were all wrong. May it be so. For those who are so sure that their individual salvation is genuine and certain, may it be so. I donot think so. I think it is part of the Americanism. For those who do not believe in the after life, may it be so, I may be so. For those that says they are not religious. please do not delude yourselves. Call it what it is, you have a faith in something that cannot be proven nor are there evidences for it. Miraculous by definition is the least probable event. Something like turn water into wine, to walk on water, to rise from the dead or to be conceived with the holy ghost. Who knows, these events cannot be repeated, and maybe they are forgeries? So, it is OK to have faith in this, and call it what it is, it is a religious – theological experience. I am not against people of religion, it is just I ask the obvious, when it applies to those who were abused sexually. I do not think god will cometo our rescue, so in this case, our Chris Peterman cannot get help from those people who simply pray for him, but if you rally on his behalf, write letters to the BJU, and raise money for him, that is help. But praying, and commenting why Chris went there is not going to help. A lending hand, a letter of support, and asking BJU to refund all his money, for me that is divine, that is God.

  46. fjc says:

    I took a look at their web site…student handbook, course offerings etc.

    Apart from the abysmal academic reputation that this for profit University has, I cannot imagine for a moment why any clear thinking person would even bother to apply, let alone attend. I agree with another poster…it almost seems like some sort of cult like environment.

  47. Mary says:

    Has anyone looked at the record? It looks like he was kicked out mainly for disrespect and insubordination. . . . Wow, this Chris guy doesn’t seem to know how to think clearly, to reason responsibly, (like, if you don’t like a school, don’t go to it– you don’t have to be a brain surgeon to figure that out) and then he fails to graduate because he can’t control his mouth! Well, I guess foolishness is bound in the heart of an– er– unwise person. . .

  48. It is tragic what has happened to Chris Peterman, but many legalistic Christian universities have done the same thing over the years. His story is similar to that found in the novel ‘Pale Tides’ by Cass Tell, which is based on true events. I only wish the best for Chris.

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