I Am Thirsty Ministries co-founder, former administrator for Afshin Javid speaks out

To the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ around the world,

In October of 2008, I, Brenda Klemke, co-founded the ministry of ‘I AM thirsty’ along with Afshin Javid. At the same time I became a board member of the church where he was a Pastor, Vancouver Christian Fellowship (VCF). I AM thirsty became the missions and outreach arm of the VCF. I served as a board member and administrator of both ministries until September 30, 2011 at which time I resigned and we parted ways.

I have been wrong, and I owe you a sincere apology. I am so sorry.

What began for me, as a ministry to reach the world with the message of the Lord Jesus Christ has gone horribly off track. At a place of very deep pain and brokenness in my own life, I was deceived & subsequently lead many others into a cloud of deception so deep and so wide, it has reached around the world.

Please find my message to you in the 3 documents that you find here, here, and here.

I received these documents this morning and I have had trouble breathing upon reading them. They came in from 3 separate sources. I’ve been outside walking and seeking God.  Brenda Klemke has made an unreserved apology to God’s people, no equivocating, no excuses.  Her  Spirit-breathed courage goes beyond herself, as does the imprint of the urgency of the love of God and the deepness of His forgiveness. This is documentation of deception, of sin, and a true prophetic clarion call to repentance. Not later. Now.

Afshin Javid and the men who say they are ‘restoring’ him: David Damian and the leadership of Church of Zion in Vancouver has been sounded the clearest, Spirit-breathed warning I have ever seen. I don’t doubt the disclosures put Klemke in danger – but I know that the very Rock which broke her, hides her. There is no other shelter against such evil and ignorance.

Klemke does not give in to anger, there is no rancour, with an administrators skills she lays out events of her time with Vancouver Christian Fellowship and I Am Thirsty Ministries: the terrible wounding of herself, her family, Javid’s family and others by a man who calls himself a prophet, a pastor, a minister. Each event, each wounding documented is preceded or followed with It is written. It is written. It is written.

What Klemke witnessed and speaks to is a long and lurid pattern of deception, of preying on vulnerable people by Afshin Javid. His contempt for women is chilling, his yielding and delight in sin, complete.
I like that God has chosen a woman to speak to such sin. Her compassion is steel, her testimony true. Repentance is not a trifle, restoration is not accomplished at will or at whim.

I don’t think those who have been criminally harmed will go to police. To read the level of evil is to understand their wounding may be too much. Where Javid may face Canadian law may be in thumbing his nose at provincial regulations.  The body of Christ has no excuse for making any more excuses.  While I do not know if Canadian law will find Javid, I do know it is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

I believe if Klemke is not heard, as those before her who have warned the church about Javid have been mocked or dismissed; Javid and those who harbour him will face swift judgement of God. I don’t know what that will look like, but it will be, and is, a fearful thing. I believe time grows short, and while I know the Holy Spirit relentlessly seeks – He will not be mocked – the sowing into the wind by Javid and his handlers, will shortly reap the whirlwind.

The number of pastors who have warned churches and Christians  not to permit Javid to minister has been unprecedented. Their warnings and pleading have crossed denominational lines and doctrinal differences. Their wisdom has dismissed, their kindness trampled, their reputations attacked, and their recommendations ignored.
The cries of all the wounded have reached the throne of God.

Brenda Klemke spend her life wanting to serve God. This confession and this prophetic warning is the culmination of years of lostness and detours. This may well be the only time God calls her to be a prophet. She has obeyed and it is enough.  To the pastors, writers, and believers who have called out with her against such sin, such selfishness, such bondage and evil; be at peace. “Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the Lord…” Exodus 14:13.  I’ll end with Brenda Klemkes words, spoken not only to Javid, but to those who still harbour and hide him in ‘ministry’:

And God, “rich in mercy, because of His great love” has stepped in for you Afshin. He has exposed the darkness. What you do next is your choice. If and when you have repented Afshin, and your life has been radically transformed, it will be obvious, because you will recognize the rippling effects your sin has caused around the world – the extent of the damage done, & you will publicly confess to these things & bring forth fruit in keeping with repentance. (Fruit trees do not bear fruit over night but over time – long periods of time – of proper Spiritual food and nourishment) You need to be grafted in to the True Vine, Afshin, in order to produce godly fruit. Without this, it is impossible.

About Bene Diction

Have courage for the great sorrows, And patience for the small ones. And when you have laboriously accomplished your tasks, go to sleep in peace. God is awake.
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148 Responses to I Am Thirsty Ministries co-founder, former administrator for Afshin Javid speaks out

  1. daniel says:

    Your website and organization is a joke!

  2. Bene Diction says:

    daniel:

    Who are you talking about and why?

  3. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    Let me weigh in on this comment. We do not attack people for their looks, hairstyle, or even waistline. I think the best thing to do is to help me to understand what is this I am Thirsty business and why some of these lovely people apologize. Thanks. Maybe Benediction can clarify for me what is this I’mThirsty business. Blessings.

  4. Anonymous. says:

    Ben,

    I AM Thirsty Ministries was the name of Afshin Javid’s charitable organization under which he did Christian Ministry. His church was named Vancouver Christian Fellowship (VCF). Though I AM Thirsty has gone belly-up, VCF still operates.

    Christians in Vancouver were familiar with I AM Thirsty because it had a fair presence at the Jan 2010 MissionsFest. I AM Thirsty was basically synonymous with VCF and Afshin Javid.

    As for daniel above: There is a grammatical error in your insult.

  5. Anonymous. says:

    Sorry – that was the Jan 2011 MissionsFest, not 2010.

  6. Rob says:

    A few points:

    1. Javid will not change his way regardless of the amount of facts or scripture that Klemke puts in her letters. Guys like this never regarded scripture, God or religions as anything other than a means of gaining what they personally desire, women, glamor, luxurious lifestyle, and adulation. He will not change. He will not be persuaded by scripture.

    2. Javid will not change his ways. Guys like this are too lazy to do the real work, whether it’s learning how to build a house, or to study and apply scripture, or to do the work of pastoring. Their career is simply one of performing illusions to enhance their own selfish desires.

    3. Klemke may at some point come to realize she never heard God telling her so many of these things she claims, which ultimately led to her becoming entangled in this mess. This is the hardest lesson of all. To admit we were deceived by a “spiritual” conman is hard enough. To admit that we were deceived by ourselves, thinking we were hearing God, is the hardest to admit. To realize that our religious beliefs set us up to believe things that are unreal or not true is harshly illuminating.

  7. Susan says:

    It reads to me like Klemke was walking around a mine field. She just had enough fight left in her, to put a big red X where it belonged. Now the troops knows where not to step.

  8. fjc says:

    Who really cares about any of them. Well,,,maybe their ‘groupies’ do. And if they we not groupies of any of these folks then they find someone else to be ‘groupies’ to.

  9. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    omg. omg. This man Javid and the other man Stan are both pentacostals. They believed and lived a life filled with the spirit and have been so since the point of their ‘conversion.’ What they are, are two sexual predators using the name of god and raping vulnerable women. They excelled in their faith and also sexual adventures. They are not much different from those rapists at BJU or PBI or IFB. These are the men of God and these are rapists, sodomists (I think).

    What does that tell me about faith and sexual mores? It shows that faith can be divorced from practice and that we have over estimated the power of faith and religion to cure diseases. These men have sexual addiction, and a very powerful sexual addiction. It also shows that their belief in a god is not real, nope, he is not there. He is powerless and as an idol people put up, he cannot help. I know this will anger a lot of you, esp. dew, brano, and others. But this proves my point, your faith in a being that is not there is actually idolatrous. Your god is false, and when in doubt, those who are in ‘ministry’ are often parasites. In this case these men are sexual parasites, and if god is real, please! o please strike them them or rip those out of thy service, instead, we are here, left behind to wonder where is god. Maybe he is not there, and the answer is when your partner has a sexual addiction and is a rapist, the first thing to do is to call the cops and put them away, in psych institutions, and inactivate them so others cannot be harmed. That is the only way, and this is the way of God, to take matters into your own hands, and stop praying to a god that is nto there for cures. It does not happen. I don’t know why people still do? Benediction here, please help me to say what I have been saying is true. thanks.

  10. Dan Holmes says:

    Dear Ben,
    I know Stan quite well. Though he has a troubled past, he has stopped doing what is wrong and started doing what is right – and he has 1.5 years of clean Christian living under his belt. He previously worked in parachurch ministry and not in church leadership per se. He was summarily and immediately terminated from his parachurch position when his lifestyle was discovered.

    Additionally, he consented to having his rather embarrassing story aired in Brenda’s letter. I think that this demonstrates that he has taken personal responsibility for his actions.

    I don’t have the inclination to engage your other arguments about God’s lack of existence on the basis of the fact that he does not instantly vaporize us when we do evil. If He did go around vaporizing us, you could just as easily argue Him to be an celestial meanie.

  11. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    Dear Dan:

    I humbly thank you for engaging me on Stan. I do not know him, but given the clinical pattern that he has exhibited so far, he is a repeated offender, so it is not about ‘sin’ that so many here thinks that is accounted for his repeated sexual promiscuity, nor it is about his transparency that has perhaps won you over. I have some medical training, and some of these information suggests these repeated sexual offenders are best treated, clinically and perhaps isolated from people that they might offend.

    I used to be a fundamentalists, and believe in the free will, Adams and Eves, and all what is wrong with the world and so I also believed in Jesus Christ our Lord as the answer. That was magical and before I had a few years of post secondary institutional training, and a few things in life that gradually convinced me that most of the holy rollers (I was one too) live in a bubble and they do not have the information they need to get helped. So they resorted to prayers, to praying in tongues and trying to delude themselves with these spiritual visitations and gifts. Let me give youwhat I think biologically and physiologically that is going on in Stan’s brain when he sees a desirable female. His brain goes into over drive and he cannot ‘help himself.’ And worst yet, every time he sees a bit of ‘skin’ his brain shifts quickly and there he goes again. It is very similar to those who are alcoholics. It is an addictive behaviour, except this behaviour wrecks a good marriage.

    Let us use the Bible, first of all, bible does not condemn polygamy, as it is a norm in the Bible times. I suspect it is also polygamous at the time of Christ. Some men seem to have more drive than others, so if their economic status enables them, they keep on marrying the younger women. Of course, the Church condemns that, in Pauline Epistles, he warns to choose an overseer, as a man with one wife. This is because there are likely men with two or three wives in his time. It is a norm then. So, if you are a literalist, please accept the sacred words of god.

    But in modern time, we have laws that forbid to engage sexual activities before it is ‘legal age’ or the consenting age. It also forbids polygamy. This is the modern law, it has nothing to do with the sacred scriptures. Men still practice polygamy, it is just they keep on marrying another one, divorcing his mate. This is also biblical, as Jesus quoted the text in Matthew, asserting the authority of Mosaic laws from Deut on divorce. It is just his view of marriage is rather stern (he never was married, and had a very poor view of marriages), so the followers of Christ often breaks his commandments on not to divorce. It is a fact, the followers of Christ divorce as often or more so than the atheists and others. So, having faith in Christ does not help you in your marital practice, nor would it help with marriages that break down. At best, it puts a bandaid over a problem, but it is no solution.

    Now what causes Stan to be a skirt chaser?

    I propose that there is a primitive part of his brain, which in evolutionary biology that is responsible for mating and sex. That part is damaged, and this imbalanced part of his brain cannot be treated simply with prayers or divine healing, or speaking in tongues. He needs treatment. Perhaps someday medical research could isolate the elements/hormone that is missing in Stan’s brain, and so help people like him. This is where science needs to get to work, not to exhort Stan to a moral living, to have a choice or free will on this. Stan is doomed. I know the many others including George Verver of Operation Mobilization. One time he was speaking (very messy speaker, all over the places) during my school year at Prairie, he mentioned that he has an addiction to pornography. So he re-offends often. I think he is still a repeated offender, until his sex drive is toned down with the aging process. Who knows. But I do not see faith in Christ is the answer to addictions. George was the CEO of OM, was also a user of pornography. How is that for an answer from one’s faith? I hereby propose that faith is like magic, but modernity requires more than magic to deal with this sexual addiction.

    So, here is my point, Stan could be a very good man to drive a large truck, operate large farm machinery, or dig up a tunnel. He just cannot be left alone with beautiful and attractive girls or women, or do not put a porno magazine on the shelf, because I am sure he will re-offend. Is Christ failing Stan? The answer is obvious. Jesus cannot save him because this is a faith-based solution, so far it has not worked. I here propose that Stan is more spiritual than you or I, and I am sure he kneels before his god and cries out to him often, except there is no help. This is why I am a deist. I do not think god is there, nor could he help. We can. Please get him to see a psychologist and evaluate for his pathological behaviour. Do pray for him (if you are a believer in that), but get him real help. That is all, folks.

  12. Marina says:

    It’s Mother’s Day. I am a mother. When my children were very small, I did almost everything for them. When they cried, I picked them up and fed them. When they fell down and scraped their knees, I cleaned their wounds. When they needed help with their math, I helped them understand the problem. As they grew older, I helped them do things for themselves, including thinking for themselves. But one day, when they encountered a bully at school, and came home crying one too many times, I stepped in to defend them and do everything in my power to stop the assaults, because that is what a loving parent does for her/his children. I empowered my child with the strength of knowledge, along with my support on how to stop being a victim of bullying. And it stopped. But I am just a human. I have no magical powers. No special knowledge. What I have, I have gleaned from my own life experiences and instincts. That’s all. Maybe my child and I got lucky.

    What I can’t for the life of me understand is how so many can refer to god as almighty father, when this father has proven time and time again that he either cannot or will not protect his children from predators and bullies and evil doers, especially those who do so in his name. Even when the children pour themselves out to him for divine help. Wouldn’t you, if you had the ability to see the big picture, intervene? Can you think of any good reason why you would not? Who is the superior being? Man or god?

    Never would I, a mere mortal, turn my child away when they are in trouble or when they need help or guidance. Would I speak to them in poetry and analogy when they are in harm’s way, hoping they “get it”? Would I just let my children find out the hard way that they didn’t quite understand what I was telling them? A thousand times NO. Never would I play with their lives like that. They are much too much too precious to me to deliberately watch them fall into the ditch. Yet the faithful are content to allow this bible father god to do so time and time again. Father god must hate Intervention. He is an absentee parent. A no-show. And in our part of the world, your father god would be considered negligent, if not abusive. He does not stop them from being molested. He is not there to rescue his children from inside the burning building, despite their many cries. Who is the superior being? The one with the power to do good, but does not. Or the weak one who tries.

  13. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    Happy Mother’s Day, Marina!

  14. Ruth Wilkinson says:

    Bene, I think that you addressed this apology very well. When Christians go thro struggles like this, why are we shooting them down. We should be encouraging them because it could be us next. It is very humbling to go through the “valley” but when sin is exposed, the freedom of the wonderful grace of Jesus is mindblowing.

  15. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    Actually, this is how I see it. This article exposes the danger and the hypocrisy of those whose moral ground is higher than mine. I have been warned that I might face the lake of fire, since I disagree with their religious view point. This is a free country, and it allows the freedom of thought. So, I freely disagree that you post here, Ruth. NO, it is my best knowledge that most of the people here are not rapists, or skirt chasers. I have been married for a long time, in a monogamous relationship, and I am appalled that preachers of the gospel, pretending that they have a higher moral ground, should not be preaching or sexually molesting vulnerable parishioners. That is the point. If you have faith in a god that forgives your sins and thus also heals and redeems you, I do like to see the preachers of these message practice that. Not to make a mockery of this message, and certainly warn others to steer clear of these parasites, is the point here. And certainly, of you that have faith in this sweet jesus. Please be sweet, and not to scare others into this religion, and take away their soul, their worth, and money and virginity. That is all I am saying.

  16. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    I re-read the part about Stan many times. This is my clinical diagnosis, Stan has a sexual addiction and he is perhaps currently a drug addict as well. These two often come together as in Ted Haggard, perhaps this is how god made us. There is a part of the brain that is responsible to produce great euphoria. Sex is a form of drug and so is heroine. So, this addictive behavior is likely a repeated offense.

    I am more likely to believe that Stan is still having illicit sex and use of drugs, right now, and right at this moment. He’s behaviour has not changed over time, what makes you think he will change? With faith? (that is a joke :))

    I do not believe by prayers, speaking in tongues or the anointing can save Stan, That is a religious answer to sexual/drug addiction. This is a fact, god cannot save you, jesus is powerless to save Stan, or Javid. Their lifestyle proves the point. They are supposedly have a much more intimate relationship with god, since they speak the tongues, have all the gifts of the holy ghost. What have we here? Minister that counselled Stan has sexual relations with his secretary, and everyone that is mentioned here is sexually active and commits illegitimate sex all the time, except the author Klemke (who is so naive, and so poorly prepared about how to live with a secual addict). The point is, faith can only function in a bubble, and a make-believe world. But in the real world, Stan has a severe sexual addiction and drug addiction, if left untreated, Stan would die. Then he would be in hell (use some of your own religious phrase). I do not want a Stan burning in hell, that would be a mockery of Stan’s Christ. Is there anyone qualified to engage me in this medical and psychiatric analysis of Stan Javid and the adultrous pastor?

  17. Dan Holmes says:

    Comment deleted per request of commenter – BD

  18. Angelyn says:

    Lord B. C., I am a semi-retired MSW and licensed clinical social worker. Briefly, and in a quick nutshell I would add this to your comments:

    Sexual addiction is common.

    Recently (within the last few decades) alcoholism and other drug addictions have come to be categorized as medical issues. It is called the “disease model,” and replaces the previously held belief in the addict’s lack of control or depraved nature. Rehabilitation requires intensive and often on-going treatment that covers all aspects of human being: physical, mental, emotional, spiritual. “Spiritual” well-being is defined as finding peace and safety in an infinite reality. For some, it may entail religious belief, for others, it may not.

    Even more recently, “sexual addiction,” which includes addiction to pornography, is a recognized condition that requires intensive treatment, perhaps even residential treatment. Eating disorders, too, are now recognized as medical conditions requiring treatment, often residential.

    All such disorders mandate a complete overhaul of one’s psyche – the mind and emotions, belief systems, and how they work together. This usually results in a complete change of lifestyle. There are support systems in place, some on the internet, such as AA (Alcoholics Anonymous) to help provide assistance to those in recovery.

    I, like you, was a staunch fundamentalist for many years. Attending Christian grade and high school, then four years at Prairie Bible Institute, I knew nothing but “serving the Lord.” But I saw too much of the inner workings of institutional religion.

    I learned that the sun doesn’t shine only in one corral labeled, “We have the sun! Join us and it will shine on you too!” The sun shines without regard to fences and labels. So does grace, which is beyond all labels and claims of ownership. Paradoxically (perhaps), the “fruits of the Spirit” – love, joy, peace, and so forth – have become staples in my life since I left that fold.

  19. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    I humbly thank Angelyn for her analysis. I, too, suffered 4 years of A.C.E. (substandard, unaccredited ‘christian education’ and spent my final senior year at the PHS, read extensively on Francis Schaeffer, and for the longest time, an arrogant, ardent defender of a biblical inerrancy) and you can sense at my mockery of a god that is a common make-believe. But let that be, question I have is, why are those in ‘ministry’ sexually abusing their parishioners? I have seen this all the time, spiritual abuse often comes with sexual abuse and perhaps drug abuse. Given my observation, I would propose here a small hypothesis about the brain, sex and faith.

    In the ancient times, temple prostitutes were there to serve the public as they worship god. Their form of religion also included sex, and perhaps the part of the brain that is active during our intense religious feeling, is also for sex. Most of these folks taught that faith is the answer, and as holy rollers, they seek more than just once a week church attendance. They are perpetually in the religious atmosphere continually. They drink faith, and they eat religion all the time, and they are at this moment thinking of a god and their sweet jesus. So you can classify that these folks have a religious addiction, as well. Part of the addiction biology is that there is a physical part of the brain that is responsible and this part if left alone, will re-offend. So, we have these pentacostals, always pray in tongues, and emotionally intensely involved with their act of worship. I think this way, this part of the brain is easily cross over to the sexual part and therefore, given their own likely abused background, they are primed for the sexual addiction and drug addiction.

    Like Charles Darwin, and other credible scientists, I seek a natural explanation and a non-faith based answer to this sexual addiction problem.

    So, instead of mocking these folks, they are ‘sick’ and diseased’ and therefore should be treated. If left alone, they will repeat the offense often, andother innocent people, girls and sexual workers could be harmed or killed. I always regard the religious workers with suspicion, and the claim of faith as well, since I do not see the validity of their claims. Physically, they are the worst form of patients I do have, so here, it is.

    What should a lovely woman like Klemke doing with a guy like Stan? I propose separation first. It is best to protect this one sexually from Stan, the sex addict. I know that this will prompt Stan to freely engage in more illicit sex, but that is not what we are after here, Klemke could contract deadly diseases that Stan possibly carry already, namely HIV/HPV/Hepatitis/other sexually transmitted diseases. Another thing to seek, is to place Stan in a treatment centre where there is a multi-disciplinary team to deal with him. Praying in tongues will not cut it. He is doomed for life, and he will not change, this is not about a free will or the lack of faith. That is a sad but useless religious addiction model. There are physically parts of the brain that is wired for this.

    As you can tell, I seek natural, scientific and empirical explanation for this, and I no longer regard faith-based answers sufficient for the patient Stan, the sex addict. And Stan, if you are reading my words, you’d be better off seeking help with a qualified medical professional. Your faith in god and sweet jesuses cannot deliver you from your addiction to sex. I do not see you as a failed moral person, nor as a result of your lack of faith. It has nothing to do with faith, it has everything to do with a disease and illness that you must find help quickly.

    Please jump in and help this discussion, whether you are faith-based, or normal Thanks.

  20. Dan Holmes says:

    Javid has opened a group on Facebook – presumably as a method of damage-control. There is an interesting thread here:

    https://m.facebook.com/groups/142630252466306?view=permalink&id=350902211639108&__user=557415116

  21. Angelyn says:

    Ben, your observations are interesting and perhaps valid as well. There is a lot of research on neuroscience – how the brain functions. One encouraging area of study is that of “brain plasticity,” which is the ability in humans to alter the way one’s brain works. In other words, to heal and grow from dysfunctional thought patterns to healthy and harmless ones.

    During my years in graduate school I wrote a paper which the professor made a part of his reading list for future classes. I have since made it into a booklet called “Sex and Religious Fundamentalism.” Bene D or anyone: If someone here can coach me on making it available as a pdf document for readers to link into, I will put it on this blog for free reading. (Meanwhile, it’s available on Amazon for $6.45, Kindle for $2.99.) You can click on my name above to find my web site, which deals with pertinent issues, too.

    One aspect dealt with by Anne Wilson Schaef in her books is the “obsession-repression complex.” That which we repress (as in fundamentalist circles we often do with sexuality) becomes an obsession. And since it’s a taboo, the acting-out gets passed along to the vulnerable (children, and others who are not likely to “tell”).

    And yes, I agree that religious beliefs can “lock in” dysfunctional patterns of thought and behavior, that is, can become addictive as harmful as other addictions which are generally recognized… not to be confused with the spiritual aspect of human being.

    Spiritual awakening and fundamentalism are worlds apart. The definition of fundamentalism I’m using boils down to belief in “God’s judgment and doom to anyone who doesn’t believe as I do,” and of course, using scripture as justification for such a belief.

  22. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    Let me agree with Angelyn, yes, there is a valid reason why sexual addiction has a medical solution, and a multi-disciplinary approach.

    Now let me say something about Javid. May thy god smite thee on the account of sexual license, and if thy god is real, please come and present thyself in this act so we can appreciate thy presence. Amen.

  23. thom says:

    Way to Go Brenda for having the courage to do the right thing.
    For those who do not have a relationship with Jesus i will try to clairify some things.
    When you accept Jesus as you Saviour you will know its real, when you gain the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is also known as the Spirit of Truth and it begins to convict us of our deeds. This is no pie in the sky thing, you know. Satan is known as the great deceiver his mandate to smear Christanity, he gets in the enemys camp and reeks havoc, rule one in war fare, get into the enemys camp destroy from within, like cancer. Its brilliant who wants to consider Jesus if people like Afshin are associated with Christanity. Afshin has the indwelling of the enemy and he is in the camp, still. The tongues that Afshin spits out are likey a demonic language, i suspect this indwelling has given him bi polar and schizophrenic like symptons. If you have ever seen him get angry and threatening it is like a switch was hit. God gave us free will the will to say yes or the will to say no. The will to steal or lie or not. The will to cheat or not the will to watch porn or do drugs or not. If your earthly father gave you a car and you carlessly crashed it whos fault is that? Not his. If he gave you money and you did drugs and got hooked and then became a theif and ended up in prison, whos fault is that? not his. We have been given free will and our actions have consequences, eternal. lets bypass the symptons and go to the root of the issue, we like our Sin and eventually they can inslave us. The men did not come out of the womb lieing and abusing and doing drugs it was self inflicted bad choices that ensnared them and engulfed them, a man made prison. Its easier to blame others then to own it, perhaps call it a disease, not sure how you catch drug and sex addiction…. Satan says do what ever feels good, your a good sincere person, you set your ownbar height of acceptable actions. Its ok to do drugs but not steal, its ok to lie but not abuse woman… That doesnt work…hitler was sincere as are millions of criminals. If you don’t beleive in God and deny his existense and reject the scientific material that says there is no way we are a fluke because of preprogrammed complexities like amino acids, then you should applaud Afshin for his mandate of hurting who ever and taking whatever he wants when he wants, to get ahead ….survival of the fittest. The conscience you have also didnt crawl out of a puddle, it is from God and its global, if you dont listen to it it eventually gets seared and you can’t hear it any more. My prayer is that other woman who were involved will not be frightened to unite with Brenda and go to the police or other agencys. Afshin is still out there doing eternal damage and is under the umbrella of another ministry.

  24. Marina says:

    “If you don’t beleive in God and deny his existense and reject the scientific material that says there is no way we are a fluke because of preprogrammed complexities like amino acids, then you should applaud Afshin for his mandate of hurting who ever and taking whatever he wants when he wants, to get ahead ….survival of the fittest. The conscience you have also didnt crawl out of a puddle, it is from God ” – thom

    That should be re-worded as “pseudo”scientific, thom. Do your homework and find out what “scientific method” means as you are obviously ill informed. Fungelical narrow mindedness has kept you’re mind captive in the primitive belief that – “if science can’t explain it and we can’t understand it, then it must be god.” Please get a grip. The earth has been around for some 5 billion years, man for some 300, 000 years and we are only now within the last 100 years discovering our origins. Thanks to religion holding back the progress of scientists, we surely would be much further along in our knowledge of the universe. However, we have scientific explanations for so many phenomena that previously were explained with a tidy little package called God. (or do you think you’re comment got posted on this blog via a divine miracle?) And I am confident that scientists will answer the bigger questions as to the origin of life with a great degree of accuracy and certainty within my lifetime. Because that’s what makes science and religion so different, thom. Science wants to keep testing and trying hypothesis and theories to eliminate error and get more accurate answers. But religion doesn’t want science to find out these things because it would mean religion would be wrong on so many levels. Religion has to constantly work to keep the answers it has given, unchanged. I am not ashamed to say I don’t know all the answers. Yet.

    And calling those of us who support evidence-based science, applauders of Afshin , well that’s just asinine. Any you know it.

    “To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today.” -Isaac Asimov

  25. thom says:

    Marina,
    If people don’t beleive in The God of the Bible thats their choice i’m just not sure then why they would be offened or against Afshins actions. If it feels good to Afshin who are you to judge him and tell him whats right or wrong, and what do you base your feelings or theories on, man made goverment laws? Are these the same goverments that have tanked the global economy and are riddled with corruption, who would rather build bombs then feed babies? I’m not sure what calibrates your moral compass or what direction it points? You should be happy that there is a God who keeps his promises. Feelings are very deceptive and often have hidden motives. What sins do you commit and justify, where do you set your bar height?
    I do know what scientific method means or understand some of its concepts, and its just another lie of the devil devised to make man beleive that he can explain things based on his changing theroies and changeing criteria, making man his own God. Nothing new, the new Age movement as well as many other adaptive man made religions are all based on these premises, making up your own feel good rules and comfortabley explaining the unexplainable. Its feel good stuff and negates a whole bunch of accountability. Have you ever researched irreducible complexities? These deductive scientific based methods have very clearly proved that we are here because of intellegent design, there is also a large number of athiests in the scientific community becoming Christains based on facts not feelings. No one wants to be held accountable we are a rebelious lot. Have you ever read the Bible? The Word of God never changes. People like Afshin may try to manipulate it or others but its rock solid. You don’t beleive in evil? Afshin is not going to get away unscathed he will be held accountable, but in Gods timing not ours. Freewill the opportunity to know Jesus or not, the opportunity to spend eternity with him or not. Its your call and i hope you make it one day. If you have read Revelations in the Bible or Daniel you will see that the Middle East situation and alliances are coming together as spoken of, thousands of years ago for the first time. Who new a little 8000sq mile piece of land called Israel would demand so much attention, God did. This is where things wind up and was written of thousands of years ago in the Bible. If you dont beleive in Jesus tell him so, and sincerly ask him to reveal himself. He will reveal himself to you in away that will be undeniable . It only takes a few minites but few people can do it because the enemy will dissuade and distract you, if you recognize these tactics then you will see how it verifies the battle on for your eternal soul.

  26. Dan Holmes says:

    Marina,
    How many peer-reviewed scientific publications do you have?

  27. Marina says:

    Sorry to disappoint you Dan Holmes – no peer-reviewed scientific publications for me. (But thanks for asking.) I could have taken your question the wrong way entirely, but I know you didn’t mean to imply that since I am not an academic scholar or scientist I am not worthy of an opinion about simple scientific method relating to the severely lacking evidence for the belief (not theory) that the earth was designed and created by a god. (BTW, common knowledge, Evolution is science – Creationism is not.) I am sure that your intentions were in no way to dissuade a commoner like myself from being informed in the ongoing Evolution/Creation debate. That would kinda be akin to the Catholic Church locking up the good book from the people for centuries on the basis that only the clergy were qualified to know what was in it. Those bullies. You weren’t suggesting that because I don’t’ have an article in a peer-reviewed journal, I don’t know anything….Were you, Dan Holmes?

    P.S. – Did ya ask your friend thom for his “peer-reviewed scientific publications”?

  28. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    Dan and thom: please see this for yourselves, this is an answer of prayer from the Lord, I mean the Lord Ben Chung.

  29. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    One of the main reasons why young people are leaving their faith as it is given to them after college, is because their faith in the Bible falls apart after they critically re-examine it in the light of reason and modern science. The only reason we have fundagelicals is that they severely limited their children to modernity. Your breed of folks who believe in the irreducible complexity is a mockery to modern science. When I was at Harvard, I held this faith very well all through my graduate studies, until when I got out, and began to live a life that I discovered that my faith does not stand up to the challenges in modernity. Look, we have priests that molest children, pastors that rape little girls and parishioners. Science is the only tool we use to prolong lives of fundamentalists. Maybe we should let they all die out? Opinions anyone? may god can come to his own defense, instead, we have people of faith putting forth death threats on those who critically examines the claims of faith and intelligent designs.

  30. Dan Holmes says:

    Hi Marina,
    I am not suggesting that only those who work in science are entitled to scientific opinions. I am merely pointing out that this is a very confident-sounding saying from a scientific lay-person:

    “Do your homework and find out what “scientific method” means as you are obviously ill informed. ”

    I don’t mean to belittle or offend you. People are allowed to have opinions. There are great scientists who are theists and there are great scientists who are atheists – and they are all looking at the same body of evidence. I have discovered that no matter what the context, people generally believe what they want to believe, irrespective of evidence. Thom is a theist and you are not.

  31. Dan Holmes says:

    Richard Dawkins and Ben Stein have some interesting things to say here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12rgtN0pCMQ

  32. thom says:

    Marina,
    I’m not to sure what the peer reviewed comments are all about.
    Darwins theories which are still being taught today in many secular institutions and some so called christian ones have been squashed because of the ramifacations of irreducible complexities. Darwin had some intresting ideas but modern science has disproved his evolving thories. Science is often based on perimeters given by man, such as carbon dating, its based on formulative theory with assumptions and what if’s, but they needed somewhere to start. Scientists can’t create any thing from scratch, nothing, take away the air the water the sun the planet, take away everything and try to make a pizza. Do you beleive in evil? You’ve bought into a lie and its all about keeping you and millions of others away from the truth steering you away from God, once again the ememy is in the camp and the eternal stakes do not get any higher. The ratio of (14C to 12C ) is an estimate start point in carbon dating terms that assumes our atmospheres radiation and magnetic fields have never changed. Scientists also confer that the signs of a large global flood could also drastically affect their calculations(estimates they call them) with variances from 10s to 100s of thousands of years. Also add a few large solar flares(radiation) to really mess things up. Foundationally carbon dating is not fact based and is not admissable in court after a certain # of years…the years no one was around…” i swear to tell the truth and nothing but the truth” The Catholic Church has also been guilty of having the enemy in the camp, often, people doing whatever they want in the name of God, frauds like Afshin Javid. We are warned of these counterfitters their behaviour is spoken of througout the Bible, false profits, false teachers, sorcerers, murders of the soul. Beleive in what ever you want, just not Jesus and you won’t be a problem or threat to satan. And like so many people say,” i rather go where the party is anyway” Hitler, Stalin, murders, rapists, child abusers, theives, liars, all the unrepented. Its gonna be a hell of a party, better take your mace. Have you ever read the Bible? Seek Jesus, repent and turn from your sins, its your choice and its an eternal choice and any day now, only God knows, you will no longer have a choice.

    ” Ask and it shall be given to you, seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened to you” Matthew 7:7 What have you got to lose?

  33. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    My faith in God has been severely hampered not by biologists and my training as a biologist and a medical professional. My faith in God gradually died out after I live a life, full of abundant life away from the fundamentalist faith of my childhood and my studies of the biblical hebrew as I began to read the ancient texts for myself. There I also discovered the discrepancy in copying ancient texts in the forms of ‘textual variants’ and that ultimately led me away from the indefensible modern theory of inerrancy. That, while I questioned with my own readings of the ancient biblical and how ignorant many of my former fundamentalist self in reading and supporting an ancient texts that were used in racism, genocides and rape of the innocent children. People that are fundamentalists hate people first for disagreeing with them. They are the ones bombed the abortion clinics, sent death threats to Judge Jones the Third, and called atheists ‘fools’ and questioned our open society. Are they the enemies of our modern open, tolerant and scientific society? The jury is out there.

  34. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    thom: when I read your writings, I am not sure I should weep, or I should laugh. I was trained as a foot soldier for the Cultural War, and for the longest time, I held the same notion despite my training in the biological sciences. All I ask is the notion of truth. It is the notion that we seek truth that led me to the conclusion you so despised. I was taught that men’s wisdom is no more trustworthy than the eternal words of god, the ancient Bible. I was taught to disregard scientific findings even if it contradicted my own sense of logic and training.

    I must say that everything you mentioned about Darwin, and the evolutionary theory is no longer held by most Christians, even Tim Kelleher takes the notion of Biologos, and I do believe he is one of yours. The only ones that actually believe in what you’ve said, are the religious fundamentalists. In the past, they held to an out-dated cosmology by Ptolemy and asserted its geocentric view. Now these followers are believers of a young earth 6000 yr theory and the three tier universe (heaven/earth/hell). There are very rare in the modern scientific community that hold this type of supernatural explanation, and if you would just watch the NOVA series on evolution versus intelligent design, you will see that ID is religious and is not a science. The irreducible complexity has been disregarded/totally debunked by scientists in the film. I will not bother to go into it, but you are at least a firm believer in that ‘all truth is God’s truth?” And that God has made the intellect for a purpose and as a grand design? I would invite you to watch it for yourself, and put aside men’s theological interpretation and simply see the truths unfold in the course of these clashes of views. Perhaps if you are for truth (for when we are closest to it, we are closest to worshiping God, using your own sacred text), you will see that ID proponent lied under oath, and the author of ID text book (Of Pandas and Men) also altered words in order to present it as a non-religious text book. In fact, it is a purely biblical and religious book, and as such it is against not just the scientific community, but also against such things as the US Constitution. If you are so right, why is all the young people dropping out of the evangelical churches after college education? I propose that it has nothing to do with ‘secular education’ (I would prefer the term ‘regular’ not secular), but everything to do with an out-dated view and this is beginning to make sense as they are confronted with modernity and truths about biology and themselves.

    I would think, judging from what I read in the BioLogos website, that Christianity has absorbed other Greco-Roman religious and civil systems of the past, it could also do the same with modern science. But if you keep on fighting it, it is putting a knife to its life. For almost all Europeans have left this repressive faith, now Americans are doing so by the largest numbers, especially those who have been educated. Please, enroll at the local university, learn online and see for yourself what others are learning, and perhaps when almost all people believe that the universe has a non-religious explanation, that is the truth?

  35. thom says:

    TLBC,
    Wasn’t Ptolemy a philospher into horoscopes and astrology? The Bible warns us about people like this.
    I guess when the Lord said that his message could be understood by a child its because of debates like this. The bottom line for me is my testimony and what i have seen. We can banter all day like this but the message is simple “ask and you shall receive” or don’t and you may die to regret it. I knew nothing about God or salvation i had sports cars, motorcycles, lots of cash, nice pad, awesome job no worries, no complaints. One day a friend of mine a member of a well know motorcycle club asked me to get involved for lotsa cash, seems money does grow on trees. Shortly after some Christains showed up in my wifes shop and one thing led to another and for the first time ever i ended up in a Church to make her happy. The events that occured trying to keep me out of that church was all i needed to see to confirm the the battle. The Lord has done some amazing things that struck home and verifed his existence. There is a battle for our eternal souls. You said that you had a faith in God, did you ever seek him out or give him the verbal authority to intervene? The only way to the Father is through the Son, John 14:6. I know there are many different Bibles out there and when you go from Aramaic 164ce text to Greek 350ce text ..and then into a bunch of different languages, copywrites that they can’t be identical.
    Our Lords character revealed in the 10 commandments is really all anyone needs to relize that we need him. If God doesn’t intervene soon man will destroy the planet, as is also written in his inspired Word. The Bible refers to the Laodicean Church in Revelations 3:15.. and its basically a falling away of the people because they have become luke warm, its the end times Church, they are distracted by the world and its fleeting treasures. We don’t like to be accountable and the lie of the devil is you don’t have to be. The road is narrow that leads to life and few find it, Matthew 3:15-16.

  36. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    thom: In appreciate your own spiritual journey and I am in no way, negating your life experience or trying to dissuade you from it. I too experienced your spirituality, by getting ‘saved’ at the age of 16, sooninvolved in the Child Evangelism Fellowship and very much on the ‘fire’ for the lord, and I was sure that my faith is real. I attended Christian schools that were designed to keep young people educated in the bible. If you will I was a holly roller and I memorized tons of christian scriptures, almost went to bible college (they told me to avoid secular education), and there are three times in my life I almost went to seminaries (the last time being Princeton Theological Seminary). I would also vouch for folks like Angelyn, and Marina. Many of these folks here have had the spiritual journey similar to yours, if not exactly the same. We are/were all fundamentalists. I went further in the art of studying the bible by taking biblical Hebrew in college. That is why I can answer my own question of the veracity of the biblical texts by reading the bible on my own and make my own judgement. It did not occur to me until many years later, by comparing the accuracy of the texts with Greek (Septuagint), Latin (Vulgate), and Aramaic (Pashitta), I came to realize that a theory known as inerrancy, is indefensible. I have texts that deliberately at times, differ, sometimes significantly from each other. This is not the only problem with bible reading. Most of my type of fundamentalists went only into the biblical texts (quote only a few), rarely read the entire bible like I have, and they often stake their beliefs in the personal experience like yours), and happiness that they derived from the selected bible reading, rarely do anything to help their neighbours (like those in the the cursed third world country), by asserting an economic system that is unjust, abusive and deliberately kept the others poor and ignorant. Women were subjected to a system that kept them as breeding machines and sex slaves totally without skills to think, to be educated and to lead a life worthy of the calling of life. Many of them were deliberately molested, raped often and abused by these men of faith that are leaders within the fundamentalists. I know that youhave already classified them as false prophets and wolves, but at a closer examination, they are Christians in every sense of the word, being saved/baptized/voting republicans/religious right/antiabortion/intelligent design, etc. They are resistant to modernity of its open society, freedom of thinking, and tolerance and love of the earth (since this is the only home we have ).

    You are entitled to hold onto a faith that is real for you and I wish you well on your path. I no longer do, and so it is not about faith here. We are discussing these men of faith like Javid, like Stan, like O’Neil whose faith has become toxic and criminal. Abusing young girls at the such a young age and raping them, and then force them to publicly apologized for getting raped, isnot just criminal offense. It is wrong, and it is evil, and the evil doers finally were apprehended in Concord, NH. There are many that roamed free, in the name of God and they continue to rape not just little girls, but the mind of those who hear them, scaring them about a second coming of christ, and coercing them to give up their money, time, and virginity. All this is done while you and your family claims to enjoy spiritual wellness and happiness. Have you stooped down and look at the abused? Have you truly try to love others as yourselves? You have material blessings, spiritual blessings and happiness. Most of what you write is classified as religious fundamentalism. But what if your faith led to the rape of your children? Or if your shop is burnt down and you became desperately poor and that there are no valid explanation to your own destruction? Will you still hold onto your views such as it is spew out here on the website? We have folks exactly like you, served the lord for many years, became physically disabled, bankrupted, raped, molested, on the psych pills and when they walk away from this toxic abusive faith, they suddenly got better?

    Faith is truly a mystery, and I do not belittle your own, but that is purely your own, and it cannot be replicated here. Everyone here I propose are not children and they have studied, prayed, wept on their knees like you have, except their journey led them away from faith like yours. Their life is just as happy and their testimonies are just as valid as yours. Is this just about the devil and satan who led them astray and eternal damned? I think not. Meanwhile, Benediction is here, trying to expose some deluded preachers who think that God has given them gifts of womanizing and their sexual adventures went far beyond their own legal wives, spew into the pool of other women, is that not call it like it is? These are the men professing faith of God and they are Christians who claim a closer intimacy to their god and god has not come to the rescue of young women every where. From such as these, we run from them and warn others about them, and feel embarrassed for a god who is not there to do something about it. I am a deist. I hope it makes sense to you why a lot of us remain skeptics and have long abandoned this form of faith of Dan, dew, brano, and you. It makes no sense why a god of love would kill deliberately, maimed those followers of his, and have them raped, both their bodies and mind. If there is a better solution other than this form of faith is self-serving, delusional and is it not real, and a make believe world, please tell me.

  37. Marina says:

    I see no point in beating a dead horse here thom. Intelligent Design and scientific theory have been discussed ad nauseum all over the web. You can read for yourself how that ID is not science, it is not testable or falsifiable. ID is a religious belief and Creation Science is an oxymoron. I will never be hoodwinked by religion or the man of god again.

    Lord Ben Chung, you are bang on. I’m astounded so many people like myself have gone down similar paths. Thanks for stating everything and more time did not allow me.

  38. thom says:

    TLBC,
    I appreciate your honesty,i know of appearingly strong Christains whose roots were not firmly seated and they have become people i’m sure they would never of expected to become. I have dealt with Christains who have ripped me off and lied, it leads me to suspect that they do not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit aka Spirit of Truth, or can no longer hear its voice. Some people join churches for certain motives and are great actors, have you ever seen Afsin in full swing, he can cry with the best of them, slicker then spit on a gold tooth….Oscar for sure. Only the Lord can judge the heart and see into its hidden places, and lurking motives. Its the enemys mandate to destroy the name of Christanity, the stakes make every war in history pale in comparison with its casualities. If we as Christains do not stay near to the Lord then we open our selves to the attacks, temptations and deceptions of the enemy. Full on warfare. God weeps for man kind, the free will he has given us is destroying the planet. Not alot of people get it and their lack of fruit verifies it. I don’t think that there are nearly as many “saved “people as the churches reflect or as people think, i read the statistics that i beleive Billy Graham quoted and he said maybe 5%. I agree with some things you say,but respond by saying that the enemy is in the camp and this mayhem is the rotton fruit of the enemy. The abuse that has been comitted by so called men of God as well as everyone else will be addressed. True men of God have not brought this planet to the brink of distruction it teeters on today and can only warn others that the end game is nearing. I stand firm in saying that if you petition the Lord he will respond, he loves his children. I don’t mean to offend you but hope that the Lord will kick start your heart and open your eyes to the true battle and the urgency of the times. I also want to ackowledge Dr Dan a man of God for what he is doing and his persistance and conviction to up hold the Truth and to protect those who are preyed,with an e, upon.

  39. Dan Holmes says:

    Not that this has anything to do with the article that launched this thread – it does not…

    I *completely* agree with you Marina that Intelligent Design is a faith-based position.

    As for testability of a theory of origins that has no God in it: An experiment that would take 13.75 billion years to replicate is not scientifically testable either.

  40. Brenda Klemke says:

    Interesting comments – all of you. but for the record, if God did not exist, if He was not all powerful, if He was not merciful, if He was not a God of love, I would still be in the deceived state that I was in less than a year ago. He IS real & He has rescued me!

    For the record Ben Chueng, no offence but there is only one person I call Lord – My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. I grew up in a Christian home, attended Prairie High School too and I am so grateful for the godly upbringing I had – it has been the solid foundation in an incredible storm. My parents walked what they talked.

    Each must choose.

  41. brano says:

    How sad it is that so many atheists speak out anger,bitterness and rage towards GOD.
    Their silly logic and wisdom of man seem to justify their “disbelief” and hurt
    RELIGION is RELIGION……GOD is GOD,and never changes!

  42. Marina says:

    Good point Dan. But you can’t honestly dismiss all the facts, evidence and data collected along the way by science which is continually trying to replicate and seek answers. Intelligent Design has none of these credentials.

    Integrating beliefs with science and calling it science, is propaganda. And it’s harmful. Take this textbook, “Science 4 for Christian Schools”, produced by Bob Jones University. This blogger sums it up nicely –

    “If you believe that the word of the Bible is, indeed, the word of God and the absolute truth, I have no problem at all with that. If you want to teach your children that everything was created by God, I also have no problem with that at all either. But I find it unacceptable, irresponsible and actually sick to trick your children into your beliefs. It’s not only disrespectful to them, it’s disrespectful to your beliefs. It’s a tacit concession that you don’t think your beliefs can hold up in the face of a counter-argument… or that you don’t think you can properly impart your beliefs to your children in an above-board way. When I read this non-textbook textbook, I see classic, not-so-thinly-veiled propaganda tricks. And that just spreads miseducation, confusion and, ultimately, acceptable ignorance. Which doesn’t benefit anyone — including your children, you or what you believe in. ” – http://www.11points.com/Books/11_Eye-Opening_Highlights_From_a_Creationist_Science_Textbook

    Perhaps people like Afshin Javid are merely a byproduct, the genetic offspring if you will, of a religious tradition and institution that must increasingly deceive people, or at least confuse them with half truths, in order to subsist.

  43. brano says:

    Perhaps,Afshin Javid is simply in DECEPTION…no brainer

  44. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    I hereby challenge god of Brano to come to our aid, and at least strike down Javid for its own sake. Any god that is able to do that in font of the people is God and the Lord of all. And if your god is lesser than that, and usually a no show, despite of your embarrassing explanations, this god is a false god. Please read the bible, any false god and his followers must be put totally consecrated (destroyed) to the Lord, Amen.

  45. brano says:

    Oh friend…the math is ever so simple,Javid is found,BIBLICALLY,to be in Error
    However….grace lives on for all

  46. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    and here is my message to a fellow PHS alum, Klemke. I am so sorry that this happened to you. In my humble and medical opinion, Stan has sexual addiction, and you are better off to seek medical treatment for him, and as an addict, he is entirely unable to stop his own sexual adventure. You are better off, to use means necessary to protect yourself, less you contract some disease(s) from Stan.

    I would also make a point here, that we all have explanations to what happens to Stan:

    -supernatural explanation(s) blame this sexual addiction as a moral failure, an act of the free-will, and an attack by Satan or god is testing Stan for his own good.

    -natural explanation: Stan is sick, he has some biological and physiological imbalance in his brain, where he needs to seek treatment. He is unable to stop his sexual adventurism, and he poses as a threat to his mate, his family and others around him. He would be likely to re-offend again. Until we get to the psycho-social reasons why he is an drug addict and sex addict, and treat him as a patient, he is not to be trusted.

    I no longer see that supernatural explanation is sufficient and if there is going to be a substantial help for Stan, you are better off to trust ther medical professional.

  47. Susan says:

    The deception here was so strong, like a whirlwind raging, sending it’s smoke into the heavens. Trying to cloud the minds of the weak and weary. Then someone, took a look and saw who deceives and knew to warn the others. Now quietly, they could know the truth. That way, the deception was found out. They saw how the deceiver dressed up in the finest robe and looked for the pompous honors. But in the end, deception was deceived by knowinng the truth.

  48. brano says:

    AMENDER!….a TRUE believer is to descern ALL things
    The “medical profession” can do diddly squat in this situation!
    Deliverance and Healing would be the order of the day!
    There is more than enuff GRACE for ALL
    JUMP IN

  49. thom says:

    God should strike us all down as he is the true judge and see’er of our hearts, all of our hearts. His Grace is awesome but the Lord demands true repentance or we will be turned over to the enemy. Dr’s are also a creation of Gods and many have their place for sure, but meds aren’t really a great solution to many things in the long run. Regarding an imbalance of the brain its possible as either a consequence of his sin or say perhaps it was caused by an enivormental source. I knew of someone who cursed God because she found her baby dead in the crib. It turned out that the baby had a reaction to a poisonious man made substance in its blanket. Not everything is obvious and what you can’t see can hurt you. Where do you think your conscience is from? Afshin will get whats due as we all will.

  50. brano says:

    So true….You Reap What You Sow…
    God is gracious to All

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