The PBI Healing Team – will the real bullies please stand up.

I have voiced my concerns about a group of Prairie Bible Institute alumni who call themselves The Healing Team.  Past posts be read by clicking the Prairie Bible Institute tag at the end of the post or using the search engine on the right.  Judging by comments under numerous posts and off-line emails, I’m not the only one who is concerned about the goals, entanglements and qualifications of this team. And now this. I believe members of this ‘team’ are well-meaning, and remain ill-equipped and ill-prepared to befriend, aid, assist or help anyone who is dealing with abuses  experienced while at PBI over the years.  What Janice Walker has to say and what she experienced heightens my disquiet.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Expressing concerns about The Healing Team did not get me labelled as a bully, but Janice Walker got slapped with that label.  A bully is a menace, someone who does not aid, assist or help.
Bully is not a label which sticks to Janice Walker and shame on any alum or Healing Team member who assisted in alienating and playing the familiar PBI us/them game. Healing is not throwing one person under your bus to ‘help’ another. No one should ever be treated like a child, have their trust violated, or correspondence shared with ‘The Healing Team’ passed around the in group on a FB page.  What did Janice do? She may have violated the  happy clappy policy of this FB group. I’m not sure.

Dear God, I wish abuse survivors could have “positive” endings to their pain and “encouraging” outcomes, but I live in the real world. Shame on all of you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Janice voiced her concerns to others in email about her experience with The Survivor Fund Project/Healing Team and Friends of PBI and was thinking about saying more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Janice Walker got labelled, banned from Friends of PBI,  and received a ‘cease and desist’ from one of the FB administrators when she asked what she had done wrong.
Janice Walker was a healthy, caring friend would not be manipulated, controlled or silenced.

Many PBI survivors (and apparently concerned alum) have been blocked by team members and administrators of FB pages, this has been ongoing behavior since PBI President Mark Maxwell went public in November 2011, and is unlikely to stop.  What is of deep concern is the possibility that ethical boundaries between the team and alumni on FB appear to have been violated, trust was certainly broken and disrespect is painfully evident. Janice Walker was not easily kowtowed and did what any healthy loving friend would do.

So I talked to (my friend’s)* husband as I was confused and he talked to (my friend) and I got an email from her saying she was taking direction from the healing team for her healing and that she wanted minimal contact with me.  

I’d ask Janice more about her concerns, but I can’t. She died July 8th at her home in Calgary.

PBI Abuse Survivors and a close friend of Ms. Walker have gathered some of her correspondence about The PBI Healing Team,  her estrangement from her friend, her hurt,  and what she felt she might need to do.

This is a heart-tugging and sad read. I could say more, I’m not going to. It is Janice Walkers turn to speak.

Because the correspondence is ‘insider,’ a scorecard of those Janice mentions follows.

Doug: Doug Warkentin administrator of Friends of PBI – Facebook
Priscilla: Priscilla Verts Johnson  - PBI Healing Team
Ruth Maxwell:  sister of PBI President Mark Maxwell, administrator of Friends of PBI
my friend:  Janice’s long time friend, a PBI abuse survivor who reached out to the  PBI Healing Team.

The Healing Team: Hurting or Helping?

About Bene Diction

Have courage for the great sorrows, And patience for the small ones. And when you have laboriously accomplished your tasks, go to sleep in peace. God is awake.
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92 Responses to The PBI Healing Team – will the real bullies please stand up.

  1. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    I have a revelation here. Perhaps dew can try it. Dew, why don’t you play the role of a sexually abused victim who has prayed for years that her preacher father has been abusing her. That god never answered any prayers, that she got pregnant, and had a coat hanger. Then she got into all types of mess and then the last one was a Good doer from Prairie Bible School, trying to tell her that forgiveness is the only way otherwise she would burn in hell. Try that, and I would also suggest to play the role of the atheistic the Lord Ben Chung and his righteous anger about the Good Doers role in aiding the sexual animals in hiding them. Please talk with your own precious and see if this is possible, the role play, I mean. I do not want you or your own kids to be abused, unlike Doug. or Ruth, or Mark. Thanks.

  2. dew says:

    Ben, you are sick in the head to even thing of talking that way – if you care so much about the abused, then you would not say such things. I pity you.

  3. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    It is called, “Empathy,” It is something I find entirely lacking with the Born Agains. It only is platonic when I mention this sicken idea. You obviously have no such experience, now try to imagine that man of god rape a little girl of 6, or 8, or Carmen Wesley. Can you imagine that? I cannot not. I have too many precious children. What we talked about here, is the Team made up of Ruth, Doug, Prisca, and Crites. Most of them are crazy and they have a bullish ways on the victims. I may sound crazy, and I work on you, the regular normal evangelical, with a normal family life and regular sexual relations with your precious. Now imagine the sickening and outrageous rape of the child in all these folks I think are commenting on the Blog here. What I say is platonic, and you are merely sickened but you will recover, and go back to your precious, enjoy your regular and sexual relations with your precious. But these victims carry the mark of christ on them. They are marred for life and for most of them, they are doomed. They have to take pills the rest of their lives, some of them will eventually kill themselves, or live as empty souled folks. If that happened to you, your precious will not hesitate to kill the predator or crush his skulls or skin that thing.

    You decided. I only say with prophetic words. You do the math, and cohabit with the abusers. dew, you used to have a soul, and you are human, so I ask this question, is it not time to ask for justice, and to kill off these offending beasts?

  4. dew says:

    Ben, they are sinners, just like everyone else. Have done wrong, yes. Beasts, animals, no….humans created in the image of God just like every other human being. We are all sinners. ALL

  5. Bene D says:

    Alice:

    I agree with you, the conversation about The Survivor Fund Project is getting old.

    I want to see people make informed choices, and not get involved with ‘paid friends.’

    I don’t doubt qualified and knowledgeable people have spoken to PBI admin and some of this team about what is wrong with this picture, and the team is still operating.

    Why? Since PBI said the 3rd party was no longer needed, what is the team doing?

    So, I’ll keep posting until this is over, with the hope that abuse survivors won’t be dazzled by the rhetoric, or the ‘we are your tribe’ meme and The Survivor Fund Project does the honourable thing and folds up.

  6. Alice says:

    I will refer to you as the Decieved Ben Chung, not lord ben chung. Someday U will be begging for that cold shower! We do not have to agree but I do not think that you are an expert on these things so as to put others down for what they say! I am more aware about these matters than you know unless of course you have suffered humiliation and abuse! You have placed yourself on a platform for one and you stand alone! It can be lonely at the self proclaimed top! I am also aware of this matter of 2 friends of 33 years and it is sad and yes there were people who entered into this that should have stayed out and let the 2 of them work it out! You do not like the healing team? Fine! Obviously some do! That is a choice that they can make and really is this not all about personal choice?

  7. Bene D says:

    Who likes The Healing Team, Alice?

    Do you know how many people have sought them out?

    What do you think some people like about The Healing Team?

    I do need to clarify. I was rightfully taken to task for not being clear that Jim Crites has a masters in Biblical Counselling from Providence Theological Seminary in Manitoba (accredited) and was on the counselling staff at Centre Street Church.

    John Kepler has a masters in pastoral counselling from an unaccredited school in Georgia, Andersonville Baptist Seminary.

    Miriam Phipps, Rosalie Garwood and Priscilla Virts Johnson do not have training.

    The Survivor Fund Project/Healing Team advertises for volunteer mentors and listeners and state: ” there are many individuals who comprise the group of people referred to as “Alumni Caring and Connecting.”

    The Healing Team chooses not to name these others, nor have they listed the professionals this team supposedly refers contacts to.

  8. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    Alice, if you are a survivor, I will not attack knowingly a surivior, please read Cathy’s own Impact statement. She says it better than a thousand the Lord Ben Chung.

  9. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    and as for dew’s comment that they are sinners just like everyone else. That is not true. They have a worse soul and they are damned, like the animals that mauled people and eventually would be put down. I do not buy the fact they are sinners like you and I, no, that christian theory lends to abuse and damage more victims. If this god idea can be thrown out and fact the fact that some people just don;t have a map in their head and they cannot control their sexual impulses and they rape kids on a regular basis. These you have to put them down. That is my opinion. And I have the Spirit of the Lord, the Lord Ben Chung.

  10. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    “face the facts that…”

    dew, you need to abandon your god idea and come true to your human soul. You are a lovely person with a good heart, it is just your faith has blinded you and you are in a circular hell, going round and round without answers, I would suggest first to learn the origin of your faith, to see how cleverly a group of slave canaanites adapted and improvised a story such as exodus (no archeological find whatsoever), this myth making is what makes a modern Jew. See the NOVA program: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/bibles-buried-secrets.html

    Much of what I used to believe is in this myth, it is not true. It is like the tools people invent to make their lives better. But religious tools are the worse formm, they have no reality, and this form has kept a lot of the abused locked up in the cells of perfect abuse. BE BRAVE AND BE HUMAN, please.

  11. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    Is there anyone able to answer me about the mythological aspect of his faith, and how this leads to a mythological aspect of treating the abused.

    I think the healing folks should come out of their bunkers now. They owe Janice a big apology and being silent is same as guilty! This is the word of the Lord Ben Chung. Amen.

  12. Angelyn says:

    Bene,

    Regarding the “team’s” credentials, “Biblical Counseling” from a theological seminary, and “pastoral counseling” from an unaccredited Baptist seminary, in my world, leaves the “counselors” ill-equipped to deal with sexual abuse, and in particular with survivors who were abused in the Biblical/pastoral setting. At best, depending on the individual “counselor’s” own life experience and capacity for compassion and respect, it may provide some support for those survivors who may not be having a crisis of faith. At worst, it can seal the problems beyond repair, perpetuating and deepening the abuse in the name of God.

  13. Marina says:

    How about this mythological aspect of faith to provide comfort to the abused:

    “In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who works ALL THINGS after the counsel of his own will:” Eph 1:11

    Or this:

    “To every thing there is a season [appointed time],and a time to EVERY purpose [matter or event] under the heaven” (Ecc. 3:1).

    OR

    “What? Shall we receive good at the hand of God and shall we not receive EVIL” (Job 2:10).

    “I create EVIL” (Isa. 45:7)

    “…has not the Potter [God] the right… to make… one [vessel] for DISHONOR?” (Rom. 9:19-25).

    “…Who works [‘operates’] ALL THINGS after the counsel of His own will” (Eph. 1:11).

    “For OF Him, and THROUGH Him, and TO Him, are ALL THINGS…” (Rom. 11:36)

    And of course in all the suffering these poor little ones have endured, all the disasters, famines, wars, disease and poverty countless have endured, know that

    “…all things work together for the good of those who love him…” (Rom 8:28)

    So you see dear one, apparently god planned everything from the beginning. He knew what was going to happen to you all along. So rest assured. He is in control. So don’t reject his awesome sovereignty, because as someone posted earlier,

    “Someday U will be begging for that cold shower!”

    Spoken like a true child of god.

  14. Angelyn says:

    Ben, you ask,

    “Is there anyone able to answer me about the mythological aspect of his faith, and how this leads to a mythological aspect of treating the abused.”

    The doctrine of “Original Sin” puts everyone on a level playing field, resulting in blurred lines between the offendER and the offendED. The offender is the one in the position of power in the patriarchal religious hierarchy, and the offended is under their authority. This leads to a general attitude of, “Let’s forgive the sinner, for the one sinned against is also a sinner.”

    The doctrine of the “Virgin Birth,” and the belief that Eve was at fault in the Garden of Eden for giving the fruit to Adam, leaves the woman who was offended as a child no hope of ever measuring up – as Catherine so aptly points out on her TEDx video – and being at fault simply because she is female. I was aghast to read that Ted Rendall taught women not to tell their husbands if they were victims of incest because the husband would find it difficult to relate to his in-laws. This is sexism, patriarchy, re-victimizing, silencing and imprisoning the wounded at its worst.

    The doctrines against homosexuality silence men who were abused as boys by men (illustrated at Penn State).

    The commandment to “Honor thy father and mother” silences anyone of either gender offended by a parent of either gender.

    The doctrines that put off eternal punishment and reward to the afterlife mandate against dealing with the crimes and suffering of the victims in the here and now.

    The dogmas that tell the offended they are unsaved and doomed if they don’t belong to “this” or “that” group, and saved if they do belong, ignore the hidden hurt that won’t go away.

    Do you want more?

    Ben, send me your address by “commenting” on anything on my web site (click on my name above), and I’ll send you free the booklet I mentioned before, “Sex and Religious Fundamentalism.” It will address your question in different terms so that you’ll see yet a new “side of the elephant.”

  15. I like what Angelyn said: “At best, depending on the individual “counselor’s” own life experience and capacity for compassion and respect, it may provide some support for those survivors who may not be having a crisis of faith. At worst, it can seal the problems beyond repair, perpetuating and deepening the abuse in the name of God.” In my experience that complicating factor in nearly all the survivors is that the abuse was done in a religious setting, often under the pretense of it being “ordained by God”. One of the single most asked questions I have heard is “where was God and why didn’t he stop the abuse?” I have heard that same question from countless prison inmates too but there is something much deeper with the PBI survivors. There is a whole layer of betrayal that supersedes the normal kind of betrayal. It is betrayal brought on by the confusion by the belief that God could have intervened and didn’t. We had it hammered into us that God was in control and He was all powerful. So when we look at our abuse we then have have the question not of God not being able to save us but choosing NOT to save us. This creates an immense crisis of faith in nearly all the survivors I have spoken to. Some have chosen other paths to their own individual belief systems and others are still struggling to mesh their concept of God with the pain of their abuse. The last thing they need to hear is that God works all things together for good. Although I believe that God does do that – the survivor grappling with their past doesn’t need to hear the trite Christian cliches and pat answers. They need someone who will let them vocalize their anger at God and give voice to their questions. But so often what happens is that Christian counselors like the healing team go right to the reconciliation, put this in the past, under the blood, etc. and the survivor still has that gnawing anguish in their heart but they have to “fake” being happy and joyful. I say, forget the giggles and get to the heart of the matter once and for all and really face that pain and look it in the eyeballs until you don’t flinch anymore. For a time, if the survivor needs to be mad at God, then let them be mad at God. God has big shoulders and he can take care of himself. He can handle whatever rage we have to dish out at him. But this lucy-goosy, I love Jesus, sappy, feel-good rhetoric we put on people to cover up the pain and make the boo-boos go away is just stupid. Sooner or later what we don’t deal with will come back to bite us. Better to face the fears and pain head-on and then from then on you are more or less in maintenance mode. It is a gut-wrenching process but so worth the effort when you are through.

    I am so sadden to see survivors who are just settling for the bandaid and a splash of perfume when they need a knife and some disinfectant.

  16. Marina,

    “Someday U will be begging for that cold shower!” I was just as disgusted by Alice’s comment as you were…

  17. Alice says:

    The cold shower statement refers to the comment the Deceived Ben Chung said, to me and refered to me as Alice in Wonderland and told me to go and take a cold shower. The disguisting statements are those that call people Whores, curse them, spit on them and the list goes on. Why not stand up to those evil and degrading statements Linda Fossen. I thot that you had higher standards than to agree with those evil ways. In the end we will be judged, all of us! Some of us will have eternal paradise and others will be pleading for a cold shower? We all have the choice to decide but none of us are to be refering to ourselves as higher beings or the LORD. That is what is disguisting!!

  18. Alice, I do not always agree with Ben and some of the things he says are over the top but I cut him slack because he is honest and says he is not a Christian. I therefore don’t expect him to talk like a Christian or act like one – he is being authentic and lives and speaks what he says he believes.

    In context, Ben was asking you to lighten up but you took what he said and made it a snide remark about him burning in hell. I have never heard a Christian make such a comment “Someday U will be begging for that cold shower!” And I still consider that disgusting Alice. Like Marina said “spoken like a true child of God” NOT!

  19. Marina says:

    “Some of us will have eternal paradise and others will be pleading for a cold shower? We all have the choice to decide ”

    How is that choice? I love you. Now believe in me or you will burn in hell for eternity, because I am god and I don’t take no for an answer.

    It’s like saying, “you will be judged by your actions here on earth, but as long as you profess Jesus as Lord and Saviour you won’t suffer eternal damnation, like those selfless, giving, humanitarian tree-hugging atheists over there.”

    Lord Ben Chung, I hope you show more mercy to your creatures, especially if you have already directed their footsteps and knew them before they were born from the foundations of the earth.

  20. Tez says:

    I would love to have coffee with you, Marina.

  21. fjc says:

    Just to be clear….I believe that the members of the Healing Team are very sincere in their work. I do believe, however, that they are very much being manipulated by PBI leaders and that they probably do not understand the huge capacity for doing even more damage to victims than stems from their lack of knowlege and experience in this area. This is nothing but a PR exercise.

    I sometimes wonder if people really believe that a few prayers, some forgiveness, and a smile or two can really cure someone who has the deep scars of sexual abuse. A trip back to PBI and a walk down ‘memory lane’ certainly will not be the answer given that these victims are haunted by their memories of PBI.

    Or do they just want to believe it?

    Or do they just want it to to believe it because it costs much less time, money and effort than the correct, professional approach?

    Or do they want to believe it because they are so cowardly and uncaring that it does not really matter to them?

  22. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    Wow, I was just drilling a few teeth, and it is so kind that you actually answer the brainless rambling of the Lord, I mean the Lord Ben Chung. Now I have company sol we will eat. I have a few chickens, a few friends, and a birthday party.

    Thanks Linda, I would like to say that I was raised as a Christian fundamentalist, so I can recite the Nicene Creed. I do believe in God the Father, but I would not believe in the Evangelical god and the modern Christian theory of personal salvation and revivalism. I am a deist. Let me work on my de-conversion testimony.

    Thanks all, and let me get back to you later!

    signed: the Lord Ben Chung.

  23. Wanda Janz says:

    Ben!!! I need a dentist sooo badly right now; mine’s on vacation!!! Would you please come here and pull this tooth?? It hurts! Not even kidding!!!!

    Whenever someone ‘attacks’ Ben I get a little antsy.. why?? Because he is a hurting individual who continually gets hurt by the ‘Christians’ on here who feel they NEED to do GOD’s job for Him! Or they feel the need to hunt him down like an animal and hurt him.

    I don’t agree with most of what he says… but he is a wonderful man with a hurting heart. He is disgusted and angry and hurt by what he has seen and heard in regards to PBI. He is not alone. BUT!!! He can be saved when he so chooses and he knows how to do this… was raised to know the truth! GOD has His eye on our Ben; have been praying for him for a very long time…

    How about y’all pray for him instead of continually ‘playing’ GOD?
    Just a question.

  24. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    The Confession of Faith in the tradition of the Lord Ben Chung:

    By the Power of the Lord Jesus Christ, I began to write, the holy order of the apostles, Grant me strength O God!

    I believe in God the Father, the invisible, unknowable, absent and powerless.

    I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, the son who is born of a father, there was a time he was not, and being born of a young woman, born under the law, taught and emphasized the Torah to enhance the spiritual aspect of the law, he died a shameful death.

    I believe in the goodness of the human spirit, that we worship God in truth, and when we are closest to the truth of the matter, we are closest to God, or in his words, we are God.

    I will curse the following thoughts:

    -those who claim to have a personal relationship with their god, yet they are whores, they sexually and physically abused others
    -those who claim to love others, but in their words and action, full of hate
    -the born again people who force others to be born again and again,
    -those who claim to be true Christians, but in their economic attitudes, subjugate others and exploit the earth.
    -those who claim their way is the only way, and force others to go by the by-way.

    Linda, by definition, I am a Christian, it is that I no longer believe in a personal god of the evangelicals, nor do I believe that the Lord Jesus Christ raised from the dead (myth), nor that Exodus actually happened (no one ever produce any archaeological evidence), I also believe the Bible is full of mythologies and human errors. It is not a book to be followed as the inerrant words of God. It cannot be when it mentions about slaves, women, genocides, and the end time. Much of the New Testament has been forgeries (not true authors), and details of the Gospels do not add up.

    This is why when a school like Prairie has persistently erred in many ways regarding truth, love and justice. This is also why every time I meet a ‘born again’ I cannot be wonder what made him one, is there something wrong with him. People like Doug exemplified this. Not to mention Ruth and his grandfather the Old LE Maxwell. What was he hiding behind the anger and the hate and abuses he preached.

  25. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    I will vouch for Alice. Dear Alice, we have never met, and you probably would not like to meet the Lord Ben Chung, incarnated, in the human form. Nevertheless, I respect you as a person, and I would like you much more if you were the beautiful small Alice from the Wonderland. Nevertheless, we are dealing with a serious subject of the willful abuses that Janice suffered. Someone (Doug.Ruth.Prisca) messed with her head, made her feel as small as a pea. I hate Doug, and the Bullying Team. I hate those who through their willful action, protect their family, friends and relatives from shame. When a small child was sexually abused, her soul has been stolen, and she has been walking in darkness, since that divine spark has been robbed. I cannot see, for the live spirit I have, that god would condone this, or could protect his people from it. I am the Lord, I take responsibility to what I do. I treat all my children, and chickens, and pigeons and sheep well. I am the Lord, and my sheep knows my voice.

    Why are you afraid to be your own Lord? Are you ashamed of your own body, your soul and your inner spirit? Brace yourself and be the Lord! Do not fear that god will get you, others to spit on you or laugh at you. You have immense quality of the Lord, your own true Lord and no one else, and in that spirit, I invite you to come forward, away from fear and shame, claim that gift of life and be your own God.

    Blessings are upon all God’s people, those who brace their own divinity, and curse be upon those who abuse and enable the abusers. The names: Doug, Ruth, Mark, and the Bullies from Prairie. Amen.

  26. b says:

    Actually, Brother Ben’s words are quite tame compared to to king Davids imprecatory prayers- a king dearly loved by God I might add. Just review a few Psalms… i dont mind a little righteous anger…

  27. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    Wanda, mcuh of dentisry I have done, is related to fractured teeth. Some are accidental, others have factors mostly related to stress. Stress lends to grinding teeth, and that lends to some form of destruction of teeth. I have observed this a lot, when under duress, people have to find a way to deal with it. Some ended up with fibromyalgia/TMJ dysfuction. You need someone who could diagnose this and make a nightguard, and when in doubt, have this TMJ checked. A lot of survivors have traces of abuse, constantly. I suppose there are good people everywhere, and you should have this look at soon. If your jaws hurt, and you have a headache constantly, you should stay on a soft diet, have message thereapy, esp. the upper body, and perhaps find agood chiropractor to help you. and Taking some NSAID like advil (if you could), two tabs, three times daily with food, should be a great idea for a week.

    Good luck and hope you will find help.

  28. fjc says:

    I never really thought too much about PBI prior to these revelations. I had and have absolutely no connection with PBI.

    But one thing is certain in my mind. PBI’s image has been greatly tarnished by these revelations. So has, IMHO, the integrity of their leadership team.

    It seems to me that these actions are very much geared to self preservation, financial conservation, and the protection of personal reputations.

    PBI is not alone-other secular and non secular organizations have been here before. I doubt that PBI will ever be able to truly clean up this tarnished image. Unlike other organizations who have come through the fire, PBI has absolutely refused to confront their past, and move forward with true reconcilliation on professional help for victims.

    This is a pity. While I might not agree with all that PBI stands for it is sad to see the reputation of this long established institution forever tarnished by the actions or inactions of a leadership team and alumni.

    I believe that every student who as passed through their doors has been let down.

  29. fjc says:

    On her website, Linda Fossen specifically mentions the name of a former PBI Vice President who she claims on her web site abused missionary kids. Not only has she named him, she mentioned that he is still alive and currently lives in Edmonton. Linda also kindly says that this man is in fact paying for counselling for some of his MK victims. IF you had a house full of children or grandchildren would you like to live beside this man???

    Linda also claims that his person was a well know boys hockey coach at PBI and that he was demoted and re-instated by two different PBI administrations respectively-both she claims were aware of his abuse yet warned no one. And to make matters worse claims Linda, he probably would still be there had one of the victims mothers not threatened to go public with this failure.

    To date, I am not aware that the abuser named has publicly refuted Linda’s claim or indeed taken any civil action. Nor apparently have the leaders of those two PBI presidents whom Linda says were absolutely aware that this VP was a sexual predator.

    So hold that though and think about the discussion that this might generate between a few PBI supporters, alumni, or students.

    After you have done this, substitute the word Bishop for Vice President, the words Catholic Church for PBI, and the word Archbishop or Carndinal for President.

    Don’t you think that the tone of the discussion/conversation between those few PBI supporters, alumini, or students would change drastically. I do.

    It is always different when it is in your backyard. It seems that exuses and reasons for failure to act are just a tad easier to come by.

  30. Angelyn says:

    Interesting comment, “b,” about the Psalms. Ben has often quoted “Ye are gods,” from the Psalms and repeated by Jesus.

    I have wondered how the Pope let “Ye are gods” slip through, especially Jesus’ repetition, when the Vatican issued the approved Bible in 382 a.d. at the Council of Rome – the 66 books still in use today.

    In light of our current discussions – sexual abuse at PBI and leadership response – and in light of similar Catholic abuses – it makes sense that out of the Vatican would come a scripture that can be construed to guide such leadership.

  31. Susan says:

    If you go back to the Hebrew Alphabet the picture will indicate the letter alef as an ox. There is a reason for that. You can find this in many references other than the Bible. Pslam 82 refers to the judges of Israel. They executed the judgements of God. That’s how they were called, “children of the most high”. Jesus defended himself because of this reference. Many explainations are there about many gods and lords, but only one first God and Lord.

  32. brano says:

    Thank you Susan!

  33. The Lord Ben Chunf says:

    Thank you, Susan! Thank you Jesus for this courage!!

  34. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    Susan: If you have time, I would like to translate Ps 82 for you. A lot of time, people translate as they interpret their own theological views. Biblical texts sometimes have been murdered with this. I would ask you to read the original with its literal meaning and I just want the truth, that is all. We worship God with truth, and God is truth. Give me sometime, I have to change all four tires and entertain guests.

  35. Susan says:

    Lets see, that might be around 2000 years ago, up to today. Is the truth so vague after so long a time? Is the distance between then and now much different? Now is all we have. The truth with it’s meaning describing the beginning to the end.

    So, what’s unfair about God’s court in heaven, in Pslam 82?

    Please keep in mind I’m tending to a 2 year old and doing my house work today. So, I may not be prompt in reading what you say. Just the same I’ll catch up.

  36. brano says:

    LMAO….

  37. Marina says:

    “Football will never again be placed ahead of educating, nurturing and protecting young people,” Mark Emmert speaking to press on Penn State punishment for child molestation.

    Now if only we could have someone say that about Religion.

  38. Angelyn says:

    “[Religion] will never again be placed ahead of educating, nurturing and protecting young people.”

    There, Marina, someone said it. It’s an ideal – how long will it take to fulfill it? Will it happen before religion as an institution topples?

    CAN an institution that exploits the young, educating them to further itself, condemning them if they do not conform – CAN such an institution ever truly nurture and protect the young? Would not such an institution have to change beyond recognition? Would it not have to abandon its former agenda and adopt entirely new priorities?

    Bravo to those who have brought forth justice at Penn State, despite the stigma of victimization, and despite the cover-ups by authorities.

  39. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    I would add, as this older generation passes on, their children are less than likely to follow their harsh and impossible position. They will not educate their children that god is angry, that he condemns all to hell because of a piece of fruit (fruitcake view of the bible). 80-90% of the evangelical youth refuse to come back after a proper education. There is a time when this peasant religion in the guise of the Roman Imperial government, will shrink back to a religion for the bottom layer of society, of those who are most ill-educated, and of those women who are likely to believe in a supernatural explanation for all their problems. That is the future of Christianity. There is no other way. god cannot be found in the heavens, and devils do not inhabit hell, and as science replaces all other out dated explanation of the universe, that day will come, that we would be brave enough to assume the divine position in our own community. That, is my prophecy, and this message is for brano.

  40. The Lord Ben Chung says:

    I don’t think this Christian religion can exist in this present form. So, a steady decline is inevitable, and as the old guards of Prairie die out, there are fewer and fewer of them left to carry out this Old Prairie fundamentalism. As the sacred text says, Behold, I make all things new!

  41. It frightens me that throughout this entire saga, there are some who seem to be more concerned about the health and well being of PBI than they are concerned for the health and well being of the survivors.

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