For evangelicals, one’s “stance” determines one’s standing. What does it mean that a stance is the all-important determinant of one’s status and legitimacy in the community?
Part of what it shows, I think, is the way that stance trumps sub-stance. This is a reflection of the underlying theology, in which faith trumps works, words trump deeds, and intellectual assent to propositions trumps what the Bible calls “bearing fruit.”
Every stance will, inevitably, produce some form of action, but when stance is paramount, those actions are an afterthought. In the stance-obsessed evangelical culture, such actions tend to be of a rather passive variety — demonstrations of verbal, financial or political support for a particular stance. (Or verbal and financial support for political action in accordance with that stance.) But when one’s stance is what matters most, the consequences of such actions are viewed as inconsequential.
Thus if this offering of political support results in political acts that harm others, such consequent harm is not accounted against those who supported it because, to them, such harm was incidental and collateral to the primary intent of their action — which was to demonstrate the propriety and firmness of their stance. Any resultant harm should not matter in this view, because nothing outweighs the greater good — the greatest good — of maintaining the correct stance.
One result of all this is a mutual bafflement between stance-obsessed members of the evangelical tribe and outsiders who do not share this tribal preoccupation. Unlike the evangelicals, those outsiders are still laboring under the assumption that harmful consequences count for something.
Fred Clark goes on to look at the Chick-Fil-A stance, comments by the CEO on the ”biblical definition of the family unit,” and how a recent Christianity Today article chose to downplay the backlash as “controversy.”
Dan Cathy and Chik-fil-A are exerting power against other people. They are using their financial power to leverage political power in order to deny others their rights.
Chik-fil-A’s critics aren’t concerned about Cathy’s opinions, but about his actions — his actions against them.
For Christianity Today, opinions are what matters most. For them, the important thing is Cathy’s “stance” and not the substance of his actions against others. They thus can’t begin to hear, let alone to understand, the substance of those others’ complaint against the fast-food giant. Evangelicals are obsessed with stances and words and opinions, so they assume this must all have something to do with stances and words and opinions.
Brano,
I truly appreciate the wonderful root meanings of the ancients in The Bible. From the ancients we have moved to the modern. Each place in time has it’s meaning and purpose. I’ve seen God does not change, man does. Thank you!
Thank you Susan!
Very refreshing indeed!
Most often,I see man changing by becoming angry and bitter,at RELIGION ,THE CHURCH,and “christians”….These people have always been OFFENED
…..Thank GOD,HE always shows up…..Jehovah Rapha!
In my very humble opinion, much of this relationship talk about jesus and god, is that they try to revive an old term about Christianity. None of it, is historical, certainly muc of this is individualism packaged in the American words. It is not true historical christianity. But who would like to be a Christian here? I rather be an atheist to this jehova rapha. Call me Yawehbabble.
“I am the Yaweh, Thou shalt no other gods (elohim) before me”
“God stands up in the council of God (El), and said You are God (Elohim”
“Jesus said have you not read in the scriptures, that You are God!”
Which part of polytheism that you do not understand, Susan??
Reality check:
When the government trains people to find fake money, they study real money not fake money.
Buddism,Marxism,Atheism…..{wow,notice all the ism,s}….STUDY THE REAL ONE!
I know that God loves us more than we can imagine. That is not difficult to understand.
Susan, from this blog it’s impossible to know the entirety of your belief system, so please pardon me if I am misjudging you here. I do appreciate the sweetness of your spirit that comes through.
As for God’s unimaginable love, it does become difficult to understand if I also have to believe that this love sends my Muslim relatives – and countless multitudes of others – to an eternity in hell, no matter the rationale that leads to this unspeakably dire afterlife conclusion.
Your comment assumes that there is indeed a God,and an afterlife,is that correct?
…or is this just silly banter?
If Jesus is not truth, then the Bible is not either. So, where does the blame for these horrific occurences belong? If God does love us more than we can imagine, and Jesus is the truth, and now He lives in us, we have hope. Hope here and in the next life. His Kingdom is not of this world. If this is His creation and His perfect knowledge extends to past, present and future, then who can tell Him about His decisions, about His faithful and unfaithful in His creation, that are His? If He extends mercy to me I want it and need it.
Susan, you can believe in a god of love, I do not. I read the entire bible, it is filled with hate and genocides. Count the times when god kills, and mark those pages and tell me god is love. That is a delusion. Ask yourself why you believe in god and the heavenly villa? That is because your god and your belief that he will kill everyone at the end, read the book of revelation. Brano. You need to state your faith in a legible and readable, logical terms. Unless, you are no able to, other than to aheem. And if that were the case, can I conclude your god is your stomach? (that is, whatever you desire). That is the case, God is our stomach, and God is in our urine. Amen.
For me, God is the squash. God in the urine and when we see that in the dropping. God is all and every where. God kills and so he killed his son and other sons. God is not your Christianity, the loving one. At least, not what you do to the poor and the slaves here in America. God is in the wars against the infidels. I am, for one, an atheist to this god.
Back to theology 101…aheem
“Why do bad things happen to good people”?
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Brano, are you a Christian and what is it that you believe??
Can we get away from all the North American terms and phases,as it has been established that they are CULTURALLY IRRELEVANT!
We need a working definition of a Christian,from a non north american viewpoint,cuz as far as I know,most everybody in in north america is a “christian”,including all the presidents…bla bla bla
Brano: If you like, may I ask you in my Aramaic terms about this way of life. What are you? Are you the follower of the Way? Are you a believer in Ishu Mashihkha? Have you read the KarazuthaD’Yokhanan? What are you?
A’WAN d’VASHIMYA, NET’QUADASH SHMAK, TETHA MELKUTHA……
Now my buddy Brano, which part of the Aramaic do you not understand? Now tell me about yoor own faith in this Raban Ishu who is called MaShikha, and about Mar Falos, and Kefa. Ga ahead, which part of this do you understand, have you read Peshita yet? How is your Latin or Hebrew or Coine??
Barashith, bara elohim, wa eth ha shamaiyim, wa eth ha aretz, wa ha earatz, hai itha, tohu w bohu….
Now my buddy Brano, which part is your faith? Let us discuss ancient Hebraic terms, come on, bring it on!@
I have spent the last 7 years studying the Ancient Church the East, my specialty is the ancient Chinese Syriac Text from Tang Dynasty, esp. the hymn 720 AD, I have also an ancient hymn of the Gloria in E xcelsius Deo in Syria, called “Tashbokhtha L
ALaha, w al ara shlma w shbra tova la bar nasha…”
My specialty is in the Liturgy of Mar Mari and Mar Addai from the first century, in ancient Syriac/or Aramaic. Now which part would you like to discuss, the holy teaching of Mar Theodore Mopsetia? And your understanding of pre-Romanized faith that came to Edessa, which is old enough to discuss your faith. Now Brano, which part would you like me to start, or is it your infantile North American faith?
Brano dude, I also specialize in the trinitarian language, which I sided with the
Brano dude, I also specialize in the trinitarian language, which I sided with the ancient Syriac Church, I affirm two quinoma, not one hypostatic union of the Alexandrian. The holy teaching from the Patriach of Constantinople Mar Nestorius. Christology is my speciality. So which part of your faith would you like to discuss. Now, don’t try that relationship talk with me, I don’t buy that North American crazy talk. My faith (or it used to be) came from these ancient sources, of pre-Nicene and from the Syriac Church, which incidentally is the mother tongue of Ishu who later on came to be known as the M’shikha, his holy shi-lakha and Mar Falos are responsible to transmit this message. Now tell me what you know of the ancient teachings of this Judaic sect.
what is the history of “you, too, can have a personal relationship with jesus christ.” billy graham popularized it, and i, as a little traumatized child, bought it hook, line and sinker. bg undoubtedly used the concept to his personal benefit–personal popularity and building his bgea–but was it a pre-billy graham invention? at any rate, i think it is a damaging concept when it becomes more than a childhood belief like fairy god mothers and fair tales. it did with me: not one to make friends, i tried to convince myself that jesus was my friend, but always knowing and sad that something was missing–real friends like others had. now i know the jesus is my friend was pure fantasy–dissociation from reality. the child psychologist d.w.winnicott points out the danger of fantasying. damaged children slip into the pure picture worlds of fantasying to hide from the terror of life. normal children play in the space between their interior and exterior worlds, dreaming up ideas and trying to make those dreams come true by creating stuff. like the little girl who occupies herself by finding and arranging pop bottle caps.
(but billy g got his moutain top retreat and his picture-perfect 60′s wife and children–he realized his fantasy, therefore it must be true for the rest of us.)
If you know this ancient teaching from the first century, all this talk of the personal relationship with jesus is acutally heresy. I say again, most of this I have a personal relationship with jesus is a heresy. I find not this teaching in the ancient Syriac Church, nor taught by the Shlaikhs (sent ones, or apostles in Greek), just check out the salvation as it is laid out in the ancient liturgy of Mar Mari and Mar Addai. None of it is mentioned. It assumes that we have the salvation of our bodies and the redemption of our souls. There is not 4 spiritual laws or the billy the Goat teaching.
Now, Brano, try this again, what are you? Are you able to comprehend this stuff in Aramaic terms? Let us try the slotha D’Ishu Mashikha, or this ancient litgury by Mar Mari and Addai.
Credo in Deum Patrem omnipotentem; Creatorem coeli et terrae.
Et in Jesum Christum, Filium ejus unicum, Dominum nostrum; qui conceptus est de Spiritu Sancto, natus ex Maria virgine; passus sub Pontio Pilato, crucifixus, mortuus, et sepultus; descendit ad inferna; tertia die resurrexit a mortuis; ascendit ad coelos; sedet ad dexteram Dei Patris omnipotentis; inde venturus (est) judicare vivos et mortuos.
Credo in Spiritum Sanctum; sanctam ecclesiam catholicam; sanctorum communionem; remissionem peccatorum; carnis resurrectionem; vitam oeternam. Amen.
Now, Brano, does it say any where that you have a personal relationship with god or jesus?? Does say anywhere about your own spiritual conversion?? It is a set of beliefs and what does that tell you? Is it time to admit that your have a set of beliefs and a set of practices, and what do I say about “religion” back then? Can your god hate your religion??
You remind me so much like:A Doubting Thomas is someone who will refuse to believe something without direct, physical, personal evidence; in other words, a skeptic.
Open your mouth and taste, open your eyes and see—
how good God is.
Blessed are you who run to him.
My Dear Brano: may your own deities bless and guide you. I run to God when I need to, I see that we share a different religion. Mine is in this world, and now, and yours exists in your mind and perhaps in the skies. As long as you know the differences, regular and rational people just demand for evidence of your god. As long as you are in your private corner and not running the government and demanding the whole world waits for you and your god, it is fine. Bless you and your god. The only thing I would suggest, is to be God and have the courage to take up this Jesus challenge from time to time. I fear no deities, angels or demons. I will take up Ps 82 literally. It says we are God.
….Friend,please do you own due diligence!…aheem
`Re;mr chung said..As long as you know the differences, regular and rational people just demand for evidence of your god
Your anger,rage and bitterness blinds you
How would you describe your relationship with your father,friend…
Why, Brano, do you have a controlling mother in your closet? Have you peed in the diaper since the first grade??
Try something else about those who are a-theist to your god; they can be also loving and rational beings.
I think it’s a god-like complex. Like an Egyptian Pharaoh. Something like, maybe they did not feel their own inadequacy. When God allows these strong god-like complexes, could be the weaknesses will eventually shine through. Uh, yeah.
Apples and oranges, Susan, apples and oranges.
It’s a wordplay.