Rick Joyner downsizes, Todd Bentley upsizes?

By Rick Hiebert. All Rights Reserved. Used by Permission

Excited e-mail from Todd Bentley on the morning of May 8, as he is starting up his new-to-him revival center with a little conference this weekend, to be broadcast live over the internet.

The location? In Fort Mill S.C. at an address…

“on the same property as Morningstar “. Stay at the Heritage International Ministries Retreat Center

So, is Todd picking up Rick Joyner’s mortgage for this particular piece of proprerty? Is it a part of the old PTL property that Joyner doesn’t need, which would mean that Joyner would be Bentley’s landlord? (Or maybe things have really gone pear-shaped for Joyner and he sold out to someone who will let him him borrow his old facility back?)

Well, at least Bentley isn’t going right to subscriber-only content. But donations will be needed to cover this weekend’s events.

Todd and Jessa had mentioned wanting to have their own kids in addition to Todd’s starter kids, so perhaps this is a model that will allow Todd to do that. Jessa puts her foot down–look you’re not going to be on the road all the time.

UPDATE: This tends to be confirmed by a May 14 e-mail. Part of his latest hand out appeal is a request for money for huge video screens. Bentley’s idea is that he will stay at home and the video screens will be set up in places like India for major crusades overseas. Bentley will stay home and preach at a camera, and the camera will send a signal overseas for the people there to react to.

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55 Responses to Rick Joyner downsizes, Todd Bentley upsizes?

  1. Mark Byron says:

    Nothing says Pentecostal ego better than “revival center.” Revivals (when they’re not overhyped in the first place) are temporary moves of God, and it’s cheeky at best to
    try to institutionalize it at your joint.

  2. Susan says:

    According to biblical accounts false prophets were quite common through the history. They prophesied only what the king and people wanted to hear. “God’s message” they claimed. No different today. You can tell who they really are. Those false prophets will always make themselves sound very religious, but are really motivated by $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ money. In their teachings they glorify themselves. As for Christ Jesus he becomes minimized. Jesus warned about such things.

  3. Brano says:

    This nonsense is to be expected,as Rick & Todd have been buddies for many years
    Besides….watch Todd do the same odd thing…make CD’s,DVD’S…write more books..The both know how to make money…. and fool the lemmings,again and again…..

  4. Susan says:

    http:www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE9IvUsq8Ws

    Many people on this platform spoke out as if they had some knowledge given to them by God. That they knew just a little more than those watching them. As shown by this incident, they were not given any knowledge, but were a group of people that was self seeking a deception. In this case it shows how self seeking they were. Instead they were following a myth. Those people who claim God’s word with supernatural enlightenment other than what the Bible says. They take words from the Bible and make them sensational. No standard for judgment such as the truth. What works for them or just what they feel, this is their truth. They have a following because, the people want to hear whatever tickles their ears. They obviously did not tolerate God’s truth and rejected it. These people act as if they are improving God’s word, but that can’t be done.

  5. Hopesome says:

    They are charaters in a play ……………. and we are the audience who is expected to participate in giving it credibility, cash for a further performance and glowing reviews!!

    even after Lakeland ………………. I’d say someone is in denial here

  6. fjc says:

    Their ‘fans’ will lap it up like mothers milk and the money will start flowing……or so he hopes.

  7. AtheistAtBirth says:

    Anyone who made false prophecies faced stoning to death in the Old Testament. To be a true prophet, the event would have had to take place EXACTLY as it was foretold. There could be NO deviation, no correction of the prediction after the fact. False prophets today don’t answer to anybody. They can say what they want, and later when things don’t go their way, they usually use the old trick of pushing prophet time-lines forward. If it doesn’t happen today, they guarantee tomorrow. Sounds very familiar? They’ve been getting away with this sham for thousands of years at the expense of others.

    Corporate attitude flows from the top down, and as Dawkins says:

    “The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”

    Is it any wonder his followers get away with this?

  8. Hopesome says:

    We have the ‘god of love’ EROS’ and the ‘god of hate/underworld ‘HADES’

    one smooth, sweet talking, lovely and kind the other as you describe AaB vile

    In actual fact both aspects of the one GOD; In one sense Jesus came to take both for neither had sincerity or integrity or love.

    Eros loved love and believe me if you have witnessed his love in all its glory you would be happy to remain in its veils for ever it is so intoxicating to your very being ….

    Hades on the other hand was vile to the core so full of hatred and the ways and means to carry it out; You would have died in his presence;

    Jesus’s job was to interceed …………….. for both.

  9. fjc says:

    This is the entertainment business.

    Entertainment and faith are intertwined today. It makes for an extremely profitable business environment.

  10. Brano says:

    True Prophets,or Apostles are few and far between in the North American Church.
    The “church” in North America is having its own struggles at this time.
    If we look over the context of Church History and time….We can learn alot
    GOD is not worried…nor is HE biting HIS finger nails!

    Over 2000 years the Church has prevailed and will continue to do so!
    Regardless of the hikkups,the North American Church may be facing

    Be Calm,Chive on..ITS A DONE DEAL

  11. Susan says:

    A prophet confronts sin at any cost. They don’t ignore it and become insensitive to it. That prophet will not cover up one sin with another. It would be like a villain in a story. If a prophet can’t tell the truth, where are the guides for right and wrong?

  12. Hopesome says:

    A prophet is supposed to be able to change things; A prophet is supposed to be totally aware of the ‘whole’ for one small change can affect/effect even a molecule/miniscule aspect of what we know of so called life.

    Cause and Effect – is in a TRUE PROPHET’s manner the only way he should be thinking; of course to do so on a conscious level would have you die from the huge responsibility of what you had as responsibility – so a prophet is actually ‘attuned into (or should be) the very heart of creations ‘MANIFEST’ with his ‘thinking and thoughts in a hope that is both honour and yet when necessary above and beyond that which would impede hope that is of a ‘not so nice nature’! shall we say………..

    So if you want to change : you buy a new or differenct pair of shoes, a new ‘hat’, a new house and so on and get into the place to be able to affect/effect change, with Satan and Lucifer ect, who like authority, power and position change is something only they can orchestrate and woe betitde anyone who opposes their nice cosy place of ‘I/we rule the world (s). So his battle (Jesus) was to take down that kind of wrong authority and replace it with one that was true to all, gifted all, and in the process was all. A prophet in this day does not have that kind of authority or power to take down world authority – and still leave us a world ……….

    Its horrendous being a prophet ; when you enter the domains of hate and witness just the power of its force – …………………… you surely do not come out with a smile asking for a donation. It is not a job of hope and yet somehow you have to retain hope in order to purify hate. A PROPHET IS ON A JOURNEY – that does not have ‘cold turkey’ in its site map – only, we will walk with, and bring this into a place of ……………..

    Your heart breaks and yet you have to pick it up and walk on and heal yourself in the process ………… for the terrain resists sometimes the very hope you long to bring into its house.

  13. fjc says:

    I just do not get it.

    Why do people send money to shysters like this? Is it because they are, well, not very bright? Need for acceptance? Need to join a group? Make them feel like a better person-a better Christian? I really do not get it.

    I have to admit, it is a great gig for the promoters. Just look at how successful Crystal Cathedral was….until the Schuller family members started to fall out over the spoils and the business model. But there are so many of these scams still in play.

  14. Hopesome says:

    fjc

    Who’s the power behind the shysters …………….. is it threat, a plea, a cry for help or ‘pay up or else’ …………..

  15. Hopesome says:

    Very little in the world comes with an unconditional tag attached to it.

  16. Susan says:

    I see it as a huge illusion, that Joyner & Todd are walking in. Todd seeing angels, visiting heaven, Jesus giving him personal instruction, etc. Joyner lost in the illusion. It’s like they are trying to force Jesus’ hand and make him prove who He is. Sounds familiar. These self made prophets seek a prestigious place in a Kingdom. They don’t know how to take their eyes off of themselves.

  17. fjc says:

    I do not think that they are looking for a ‘prestigious’ place in the kingdom.

    I think that their focus is on the here on now. On their own financial well being. And on their popularity….this is what drives the giving.

  18. Susan says:

    The night of the ring ceremony for Todd and the commissioning of him and his wife spoke volumes. They were outwardly showing the world how caught up in themselves and their appointments they were. Yet, in truth it was a show. It was a sham. How meticulous they were about the details, nevertheless their hearts were deceived. Who knew what that night? Yet the ceremony went on and today they still teach.

  19. Hopesome says:

    fjc-:

    They are selling redemption:-

    Power corrupts in the wrong vessel;

    Power denies hope and compassion in order to maintain itself , in the wrong vessel;

    Compassion – is merely paying lip service to their need and geed;

    To give what they hope for a name ie; Jesus is real easy because Jesus is not on hand in person for them to ask for insight, wisdom or knowledge now is he;

    Their mentor ‘the holy spirit’; seems in need of reality – and is only very holy-

    You generally speaking do not reach the ‘unholy’ by being holy – that spirit certainly gets up my nose !!

    Yet to throw the ‘baby out with the bath water’ isn’t good either; thats where all things to all people comes in;- and no disrespect here but they are certainly not that.

    Whoever created ‘and is still on the job’ did so for a reason and using the name of Jesus seems to be part of the deal!!

  20. fjc says:

    Either way, it is a good gig for them. Feeds their egos and is probably very lucrative.

  21. Hopesome says:

    fjc

    Either way lucrative does not a silk purse make out of a ‘sows’ ear !! No disrespect to anyone of course.

  22. fjc says:

    I understand that….but ‘lucrative for Todd Bentley’ is what this is about. Forget the rest, this is your bog standard scam.

  23. dave says:

    I have wondered for a long time if these guys really believe this stuff or not .It is big business.Just look at all the conferances at morning star.Bob Jones struck me as crazy .Todd as someone who has been lying his whole life ,and finally found a group who would buy his stories,and Rick Joyner the Casey at the bat prophet who could not predict summer in springtime seems plain greedy.

  24. Hopesome says:

    The world justifies itself the whole time and the bible is all part of that justification;

    Those less than honourable use ‘whats in the world’ to justify their will, ways and even thoughts; in other words across the sections in society there is justification planted there for us to rely on in times of needgives us or anger, or or or…

    One used by ‘complacency’ is ‘yes but’…. I know but…. well so what; So thats how they are able to justify what and how they do things in terms of religion or media or ‘whatever’ – YES BUT THE BIBLE SAYS and the bible being a social representation of ‘who or what we are ie; do you see yourself as ‘jesus’ or ruth’ or judges!!! or a revelation to behold unto them (maybe thats Todds vision of himself!) then you can almost get ‘away with murder’ (and murder has many forms to its name).

    Yes its scam – the world is a scam and we like headless chickens run round and round its parameters justifying ourselves as we go; then we say ‘ yes but we of the bible don’t live in the world …… not far below the surface – you do ……. We are locked in to remits’ fomulas’ and de-notations of …………… all laid out for us from the beginning of ‘time’, Prophets say that they ‘move the parameters …. actually some do – but generally speaking only to benefit themselves ….. shifting the parameters of religion is whats on the move to justify religion… CONSTANTLY … and not just religion I might say….The motivation is clear, profit; only for the ‘chosen ones’!!!! ‘
    Who are the’famous’ !! who are the rich and so on ….. we just have a ‘part of those things’ for the most part…

    To stop the world from devouring itself ………………. takes ‘a clear vision of……. whole understandng of….. (thats the most important) with a willingness to ‘pass judgement’ at the end of a full knowledge of….

  25. Pingback: Todd Bentley’s Latest Revival Venture | Wolf Tracks

  26. Hopesome says:

    To love is to unravel the mysteries so that all can partake of the knowledge;

    To know ‘in part’ winds me up !

  27. Cobbled Stones says:

    Hopesome ..

    Whatever it is you’re saying is completely lost on me. Can you translate to English? What the hell are you talking about?

    Please get practical and tell me who you view as a modern day prophet with an unblemished reputation of 100% accuracy. One who walks in power, authority, and under the unction and direction of Holy Spirit. Preferably, one the whole church hates, because they have always hated the prophets. Also preferably one who lives on locusts and honey, and wears strange clothing.

    If your bible is true – then lets put it to the test.

  28. Hopesome says:

    Cobbled Stones:

    I apologise for baffling you: My intent was not to confound the wise !!!

    If I was a prophet – right now I would be saying PANIC …… – big time – PANIC ….. why!

    Because a true prophet knows exactly what the ‘bad’ prophets are saying:-

  29. Cobbled Stones says:

    “Because a true prophet knows exactly what the ‘bad’ prophets are saying:-”

    Bullshit …

    Who is this “true prophet” ??????

    I dare you … Name ONE

  30. Cobbled Stones says:

    “I apologise for baffling you: My intent was not to confound the wise !!!”

    You should read your bible Hopeless .. Romans 1:22 King James Bible
    “Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools …,”

    I have never professed to be wise .. and in any case, which am I … wise, or foolish?

    Some on this blog have called me an intellectual, and others have called me foolish according to Psalm 14:1

    King James Bible
    To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

    If I am a fool, then I ought to have understood you perfectly? If your intent was NOT to confound the wise, were you then speaking to the foolish?

    Which shall it be?

  31. Cobbled Stones says:

    Hopesome:

    Sorry for the typo .. spell check. I was running back and forth to the phone. I’m involved in a few local charities and with a fundraiser in full swing, my line has been busy. I didn’t see the change.

    Let me fill you in on why I detest the whole prophecy thing. I’ve spent a few years in Evangelical circles as you know, and particularly in Pentecostal churches, the pastors love to speak about this prophet or that prophet – and how the gifts of Holy Spirit include prediction of the future.

    So … I started keeping track. I checked up (Perhaps my gift from Holy Spirit is uncovering bullshit). I found a startling thing .. they weren’t coming true, or they were uttered after the fact. Occasionally, there seemed to be a good guess, and the event actually happened, only to be followed by a bad guess the next time. It didn’t seem to matter who the prophet was.

    So, being a good Christian, I checked the NT, and didn’t really find any satisfaction, but boy did I find a lot of rules about prophets in the OT !!! I figured because Christians cite the OT to support their views on abortion or the gay lifestyle, and tithing, that that was permitted.

    So in reality – false prophets (like gays) are to put to death.

    Now tell me why Christians advocate for death to gays, but you never seem to see them advocating for death to false prophets? Whats the difference?

    Now Hopesome – I know you don’t like to answer questions. In all the time I’ve asked you hard questions, there haven’t been many answers. But just remember .. you are to:

    2 Tim 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

    1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and be ready always to give an answer to every man who asketh you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear.

    Im asking you for answers. Perhaps if you direct me to the name of a current prophet, and you provide a certified list of their predictions and confirmation of the accuracy of same, that I may believe in your God.

    Be careful with your list Hopesome ..

    You might wish to avoid mentioning these
    50 christian church leaders who have come under criminal investigation.

    I start with this one ….

    1. James Ackley – Arrested early this year (2013) and charged with sexual molestation of a child, and online solicitation of a minor. Youth Leader. Methodist. (Source Source Source)

    2. Geronimo Aguilar – Married with five children, Aguilar was charged with the sexual assault of two children and and two counts indecency by fondling this year. Pastor. Non-Denominational Christian Church. (Source Source Source)

    3. Tony Alamo – Having previously been jailed for federal tax evasion in 1994, Tony Alamo is currently serving time (175 years) on numerous child sex abuse and child pornography charges including transporting minors across state lines for sex and entering into a polygamist marriage with an 8 year old girl. Pastor. Pentecostal. (Source Source Source)

    4. Jim Bakker – After deceiving and exploiting money from millions of trusting people over a 10+ year period, Rolls Royce driving televangilist Jim Bakker was convicted of 24 counts of fraud and served only 5 years of a 45 year year sentence. Televangelist. Pentecostal. (Source Source Source)

    5. Wayne Bent (aka Michael Travesser) – Wayne/Michael, a messiah claimant from New Mexico was found guilty on multiple counts of sexual conduct with minors who were residents of his doomsday community known as ‘Strong City’. He is currently serving the remainder of his sentence after appeals to have his convictions overturned due to a technicality were over ruled. Pastor. Seventh Day Adventist. (Source Source Source)

    6. James P. Bertrand Jr – ‘Just For Jesus’ rally founder James Bertrand has been arrested twice for possession of cocaine. His first offence was in September 2012 (he was also charged with DWI during this incident) and again in January of this year. Pastor. Non-Denominational. (Source Source Source)

    7. Joe Bray – Joe was colourfully arrested in 2012 for DUI. During his arrest he told the arresting officer “You’re gonna pay when you’re judged and I’m going to tell God how much of a fucking asshole you are you motherfucker.” and proceeded to attempt to kick the window out of the police vehicle. Pastor. Pentecostal. (Source Source Source)

    8. Graham Capill – After a career in politics, leading the Christian Heritage Party, Graham Capill retired in 2004 to pursue a career as a police prosecutor. His plan was halted in 2005 when the married father of nine was charged and convicted with indecently assaulting and raping multiple children under the age of 12. Minister. Presbyterian. (Source Source Source)

    9. Raymond Fernandez – Raymond Fernandez was arrested just this month after victims came forward and reported abuse that occurred in the mid 1990s at the Greater Grace church in Baltimore where Fernandez was entrusted with leading the youth group. The investigation is still under way and police are expecting more victims to come forward. Youth Leader. Non-Denominational/Evangelical. (Source Source Source)

    10. Morgan V. Frawley – 25 year old Morgan was charged with risk of injury to a minor after it was discovered she had entered into a sexual relationship with a 15 year old boy, a member of her youth group. Frawley was caught out when inappropriate messages from her were found on the victims’ phone. Although Frawley served no jail time for her crime, she was immediately removed from her position within the church. Youth Leader. Congregational Protestant. (Source Source Source)

    11.Robert Kenneth Gass – Robert ‘Bobby’ Gas has had more than one run in with the law over the past 6 months. After being charged with assault and cocaine possession in October 2012, the Texas pastor again came into the spotlight of law in June this year when he was arrested and charged with driving under the influence. Upon being searched by police during the DUI arrest, Gass was found to be in possession of a crack pipe and a pair of knives. Pastor. Non-Denominational Evangelical. (Source Source Source)

    12. W.V. Grant – Walter Vinson Grant is a a Texan based televangelist who was convicted and jailed for 16 months in 1996 for tax evasion. Grant also unknowingly admitted (via undercover video recordings) that he had swindled church members for over $100,000, using the money as a down payment on his million dollar residence. Televangelist. Baptist. (Source Source Source)

    13. Michael Guglielmucci – Although police investigations were carried out, Australian Hillsong Church song writer Michael Guglielmucci was never officially punished for his deceptions against his church community. In August 2008 it came to light that Michael’s battle with Cancer, which he often discussed publicly and even penned a song (Healer) about, was a complete fabrication. The former pastor had created the story in attempt to divert attention away from his 16 year addiction to pornography. All CDs, DVDs and other Hillsong related media which featured Guglielmucci were swiftly recalled and re-edited to exclude any content which featured him or his music. Pastor. Pentecostal/Hillsong. (Source Source Source)

    14. Efrey Guzmn – Charged with a number of violent crimes, including aggravated sexual assault, aggravated burglary, sex abuse of a child, and forcible sex abuse, including one count of ‘Penis Biting’, Efrey Guzman is currently awaiting trial in Salt Lake City, Utah. Church President. Mormon/LDS. (Source Source Source)

    15. Ted Haggard – Who needs no introduction as most will be aware of Pastor Teds removal from the New Life Church in 2006 due to claims of him hiring male prostitutes for sex and the purchase and use of crystal meth. Further controversy was sparked in 2009 when a young male church member, who claimed he had entered into a non-consensual sexual relationship with Haggard, came forward. The matter was settled financially out of court. Pastor. Non-Denominational Mega Church/Evangelical. (Source Source Source)

    16. David Heckman – Arrested just this month. Heckman is accused of embezzling over $50,000 from a non-profit organisation who builds homes for the homeless. He is also accused of using church funds for personal expenses. The investigation is ongoing and his case will be heard in January 2014. Pastor. Non-Denominational. (Source Source Source)

    17. Benny Hinn – Like Ted Haggard, you’ll probably know the name Benny Hinn. It may surprise some to know that while extensive investigations have been carried out, this world famous christian faith healer has never bee charged or convicted with any criminal offences. In spite of this, scandal seems to plague Hinn’s ministry. The list is too long to cover but the primary complaints seem to centre around monetary issues and the authenticity of his faith healing abilities / miracles. I would encourage you to seek out information on this man yourself, and come to your own conclusion. Televangelist/Faith Healer. Charismatic/Evangelical. (Source Source Source)

    18. Jason Hooper – While visiting Australia from the USA to tour the country with the Hillsong Church Jason Hooper was arrested and charged with a DUI after crashing his car on a major highway. The visiting preacher escaped any serious punishment, penalty and deportation to the absolute disgust of the local police and community. Pastor. Pentecostal. (Source Source Source)

    19. Terry Hornbuckle – Convicted in 2006 of sexually assaulting 3 women, two of which were members of his congregation, Pastor Terry Hornbuckle was denied parole in March of this year. Hornbuckle who has served seven of his fifteen year prison sentence will be eligible for parole again early next year. Pastor. Charismatic. (Source Source Source)

    20. Frank Houston – Originally hailing from New Zealand, Frank Houston moved to Australia in 1977 and started what would eventually become the Hillsong Church. In 2000 his son, and current head of Hillsong, Brian Houston convinced his father to resign from the church after child sex abuse allegations came to light, claims which were not denied by the elder Houston. Salvation Army Officer/Pastor. Hillsong/Pentecostal. (Source Source Source)

    21. Kent Hovind – Kevin Hovind is a Young Earth Creationist who’s work has come under much scrutiny from people both within and outside of his belief system. It is not his ideas though that led to his 2006 arrest. Hovind was charged with multiple counts of tax evasion and is currently serving a 10 year prison sentence. He continues to receive support from supporters who claim he was unfairly convicted. Young Earth Creation Evangelist. Creation Science Evangelism. (Source Source Source)

    22. James Hunter – Rev. James Hunter, along with his wife, was arrested in 2011 for selling prescription drugs while fronting as a ‘mobile pastor’ service. Although this lead to speculation that Hunter was not actually a legitimate christian pastor it later came to light that he was indeed the active minister at Forever Flowing Ministries. Minister. Non-Denominational. (Source Source Source)

    23. Gerry James – Pastor Gerry was arrested and charged with 10 separate offences in 2010 including; traffic violations, DUI, threatening a police officer and possession of marijuana. Pastor. Baptist. (Source Source Source)

    24. Warren Jeffs – Another heavy hitter in the world of disgraced christian leaders. Warren Jeffs has been the subject of many documentaries and small films due to the amazing scale on which he was able to deceive his followers/cult/church members. He was arrested while on the run from his Utah compound and was charged and convicted of numerous crimes including, of being an accomplice to rape, incest, and aggravated sexual assault of minors. He is currently serving a life sentence. Church Leader. Mormon/LDS. (Source Source Source)

    25. Christian J. Johnson – This Illinois pastor has been arrested mulitple times and has so far been charged with possession of methamphetamine, possession of drug paraphernalia unlawful possession of a weapon and unlawful possession of a stolen vehicle. Pastor. Non-Denominational. (Source Source Source)

    26. William Kamm – Convicted of multiple counts of sexual assault, William Kamm claimed his victims were his mystical wives. He was denied parole early this year. Kamm continues to spread his messages from prison using the internet Priest. Catholic. (Source Source Source)

    27. Henry Lyons – This ex-president of the National Baptist Convention was sentenced to five and a half years in jail for racketeering and grand theft. In his time as president he misappropriated over $4 million of church money. After his release from prison he returned to preaching and even attempted to reclaim the NBC presidency, but was defeated. Pastor. Baptist. (Source Source Source)

    28. Ervil LeBaron – One from the history files! Ervil was an early LDS church leader who ordered the killing of numerous other chirstian leaders of the time. He also arranged for members of his own family to be murdered. The murders were carried out by some of his many wives. He died in prison in 1981 while serving a life sentence, during which he wrote a new bible which included commandments to kill disobedient church members. Church Leader. Mormon/LDS. (Source Source Source)

    29. Jeffrey Lundgren – Another case of a self-proclaimed prophet of god gone bad! Although his foundations were with the LDS church, the teachings of Jeffrey Lundgren stemmed from a holy-spirit based / charismatic view of christianity and his scriptural interpretations earned him many followers, many of whom would play a part in the murder cases of which he was eventually tried and convicted. He was convicted of murdering a family of five (husband, wife and three daughters) and was sentenced to death (executed October 24th 2006). Chucrch Leader. Mormon/LDS. (Source Source Source)

    30. Eddie Mallonee – Plotted to kill his wife during a christian mission trip. He was arrested in June this year on charges of conspiracy to commit first degree murder and attempts to commit first degree murder. Mallonee had previously resigned from his church after allegations that he was involved in an extra marital affair. Pastor. Baptist. (Source Source Source)

    31. Robert Lee McQueen – Charged with multiple counts of possession and distribution of heroin and other unlawful weapons charges, McQueen was found guilty by a jury in 2010 and is currently serving a 14 year sentence. It is also alleged that he offered witnesses money to provide false testimony. Pastor. Baptist. (Source Source Source)

    32. Barry Minkow – Some would call Barry Minkow a jack of many trades. Most would simply call him a sleazy con man. After being released from jail a first time in 1987 for accounting fraud, Barry took up a position as a Pastor at a San Diego church and he seemed to be living an honest life. Until, in 2011 Minkow was arrested on new fraud charges regarding abuse of church funds, he also admitted to being addicted to the prescription drug Vicodin. Pastor. Non-Denominational/Evangelical. (Source Source Source)

    33. Brian Moore – Moore, who was at the head of two churches at the time of his arrest, was charged with drug possession and possession of drug paraphernalia in 2009. Pastor. Non-Denominational. (Source Source Source)

    34. Ryan J. Muelhauser – This Pastor from the Midwest of the USA found his sexual abuse victims by offering them help and counselling for homosexual feelings/tendencies. Muelhauser’s treatment methods included asking male clients to masturbate in front of him and touching, cupping or fondling his clients genitalia to ‘bless it’. He was arrested and charged on eight counts of criminal sexual conduct. Pastor. Non-Denominational. (Source Source Source)

    35. Fred Phelps – Do I really need to elaborate here? I think I might just leave it at three words. Westboro Baptist Church. Church Leader. Baptist. (Source Source Source)

    36. Arcadio “Larry” Pineda – Supported his lavish lifestyle on his church’s buck. Larry was arrested and sentenced to 10 years in prison. In his time as church pastor he falsified documents in order to use church money, used the church itself as collateral for his own home, used church offerings and other church monies to support his lavish lifestyle and pay off credit cards. Pastor. Non-Denominational. (Source Source Source)

    37. Peter Popoff – Yet another Televangelist proven to be lying scoundrel! The Self proclaimed prophet rose to world wide fame due to his seeming ability to receive messaged directly from god, and faith healing abilities. It was uncovered by skeptic James Randi that Popoff was using both high tech gadgetry and audience plants to achieve these amazing feats. Televangelist/Faith Healer. Charismatic Christianity. (Source Source Source)

    38. Howard Douglas Porter – Porter was convicted of murdering an 85 year old man in 2008. Porter was also accused of staging an earlier crime in 2004, a car wreck, that left the same man he would later murder paralysed. He is currently serving a life sentence. Pastor. Presbyterian. (Source Source Source)

    39. Lonny Remmers – Charged with assault with a deadly weapon and child abuse. Two church members are also being charged with kidnapping, child abuse, false imprisonment and assault. The charges were filed after allegations surfaced that Remmers and his church members drove a 13 year old boy to the desert, had him dig his own grave and physically tortured him. The abuse continued the following day when the boy was tied to a chair, maced in the face and attacked with pliers by Remmers. His trial is set for October this year. Pastor. Non-Denominational. (Source Source Source)

    40. Dale Richardson – After initially denying any wrong doing, Dale Richardson eventually plead guilty and was charged with three counts of kidnapping and 3 counts of first degree sexual misconduct. Richardson was arrested after victims came forward telling police he had raped them behind the church where he preached. He is serving a 20 year prison sentence. Pastor. Baptist. (Source Source Source)

    41. Victor Richardson – Was arrested last year for strangling his wife while drunk at his home. Richardson acted violently, refused to cooperate with police and threatened to kill himself. He was eventually immobilised and put under arrest. Pastor. Evangelical. (Source Source Source)

    42. Michael Rivera – Another recent example of sexual abuse within the church. Last month Michael Rivera admitted to sexually abusing a 17 year old female who was a member of his all girls youth group. Youth Leader. Non-Denominational. (Source Source Source)

    43. Jacques Robidoux – Currently serving a life sentence for the murder of his baby son. The 11 month old baby was starved to death after Robidoux’s sister received divine instruction from god to not allow the baby to eat anything but breast milk, a prophecy the religious leader took seriously. The baby boy died three days before his first birthday. Church Leader. Charismatic Christianity. (Source Source Source)

    44. Jung “Pastor Joshua” Seok – After coming under investigation in 1999 Jung, another church leader who claims to be the messiah, spent 9 years fleeing from the authorities. He was finally arrested in 2008 and convicted of multiple sex abuse offences. He was also charged with several counts of fraud and embezzlement of church funds. Pastor. Unification Christianity. (Source Source Source)

    45. Jimmy Swaggart – When Jimmy Swaggart delivered his famous ‘I have Sinned’ speech to his congregation in 1988, he neglected to give any details of his wrong doings. It was later revealed that the had solicited and engaged in sexual activities with a prostitute on numerous occasions, he was suspended from the church for two years for sexual immorality. After the suspension ended, he was again found to be engaging in sexual activities with prostitutes and stepped down from his ministry. Pastor. Pentecostal. (Source Source Source)

    46. Samuel Taylor – Arrested and charged with Conspiracy to Commit Grand Theft, Scheming with Intent to Defraud, Racketeering, Mortgage Fraud and Money Laundering. Taylor defrauded the church he lead of over $250,000. Pastor. Charismatic. (Source Source Source)

    47. Zachery Tims – Pastor of a Florida based mega church and former teen drug addict, Zachery Tims was found dead in a hotel room in August 2011. Although it is believed that his death was due to a drug overdose his family have sued to keep the details of his toxicology report a secret. In an interview this year the preachers ex-wife did confirm that substance abuse played a big part in Tim’s lifestyle. Pastor. Charismatic. (Source Source Source)

    48. Kevin Wallin – Aka: ‘Monsignor Meth’. Arrested in April this year for running a methamphetamine operation out of his apartment, the priest made over $300,000 from his drug dealings. He pleaded guilty to all charges and was sentenced to 11 – 14 years in prison. Priest. Catholic. (Source Source Source)

    49. John Douglas White – Currently serving life in prison for the murder of 24 year old Rebekah Gay. He had previous convictions dating back to the 1980s, all crimes against women, including: the stabbing and assault of a 17 year old girl in 1981 and the murder of Vicky Sue Wall which he confessed to in 1995 and served a 12 year jail sentence after having his charge reduced to ‘involuntary manslaughter’. Pastor. Non-Denominational (Source Source Source)

    50. Yaweh Ben Yaweh – Another out there church leader who claimed to be Jesus reborn! Hulon Mitchell Jr, aka; Yaweh Ben Yaweh along with several other members of his church were charged with numerous offences ranging from racketeering to first degree murder. YBY himself was eventualyl convicted with conspiracy to commit murder and sentenced to eighteen years in prison, of which he served eleven. He died in 2007 of prostate cancer. Church Leader. Nation Of Yaweh. (Source Source Source)

    And there you have it! Be careful who you trust.

  32. Hopesome says:

    Cobbled Stones:

    A true prophet knows that your comments are laced with anger bordering on fury and that ego has tripped your voice into arrogant mode !!

    Intellect – pride as knowledge and in knowledge:- and neither counts for very much at the end of the day, so your basis for the comments you posted are grounded in a place that has lead you to believe that in some way your superior manner will out manoeuvre mine;

    That being said I shall move on ………….

    The bible has been mauled by millions, scrutinised by so called scholars, and been the backbone of many a way in a persons life and household………. It is not my bible – I merely listen with speechless horror at how its interpretation can change on a whim, distort truth, and how some of those that ‘follow it’ can take on its personality with such gusto that they emulate it, breath and eat it without knowing what in heavens name revelations is, for the most part, all about; It can be used as a crutch, a threat, and as ‘I hereby declare the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth’ – No its not my bible yet with all my heart I respect those who’s life seems to depend on it and revolve around it. You can quote me quotes from its pages and I can quote you quotes back – but beyond that place is a much greater life within its pages and peoples that I wish to explore to its full and do …………… Was I calling you foolish – your anger tells me that you thought I was !!!! Your anger is foolish as to whether you are or not I have yet to decide.

    Without you having a greater understanding of ‘what its all about’ anything I say with regard to the prophetic situation among us would fall into more of your pomp and circumstance and would therefore wither and die; a cop out on my part ! No just a knowing of what agenda you carry.

    A True Prophet

  33. Cobbled Stones says:

    Hopesome ..

    Just answer the questions I have asked.

  34. Hopesome says:

    Cobbled Stones: Mr Joyner and Mr Bentley and others like to perform and in one sense glorify what they describe as prophetic gifts ……… Its where the prophecy’s come from that interests me and the motivation’s behind them ……….. Many a sugar coated word has behind it hidden meaning, falsehood, revenge and the like. Prophets and prophecy have been distorted and gone to a place that really does not reflect the true meaning of what they are or should be about;

    Name me a true prophet you said one with a hundred percent hit record; I would have to be in a far greater place than I am now to be able to do that in all sincerity and with truth as its foundation because love has to be far greater than hate and right now my love is dealing in an entirely different place to overcome jealousy’s stings.

    As for the future they are predicting …………. well lets just say it keeps them happy not me.

  35. Cobbled Stones says:

    Thank you Hopesome for proving yet again that you have no answers.

  36. Hopesome says:

    Thankyou Cobbled Stones for showing me how you have consistantly missed the answers; and resorted to insult and intimidation and ignorant rant – (which is why you missed the answers you weren’t really worthy of in the first place)

    Jesus was challenged in the temple by such as you!

    your would never have acknowledge – answer – and neither will I ANSWER your demand for an ANSWER;

    I know you Cobbled Stones but you don’t know me – and thats what bugs you.

    Have a nice day my friend – it sounds like you need one: AaB

  37. Cobbled Stones says:

    People read these posts – and watch to see who rises to the challenge. They understand who uses personal attacks, and who uses factual information to back up statements.

    They watch the cowardly dismissive of the religious who brush off the hard questions because they have no answers to inquiring minds.

    You have nothing to offer Hopesome, and that has clearly been demonstrated.

  38. Hopesome says:

    Cobbled Stones;

    Love does not ‘rat’ on people it instructs people

    Love does not insist when someone is so obviously either at odds or dismissive of

    I hear your threat – I hear your unjust call (to arms!) I hear you hate my words I hear that you are telling me to ‘watch out for the internet police will come to call’ – and I will be trashed as a result……………..

    Threats …………….. When all else is lost we use threat !

  39. Cobbled Stones says:

    Hopesome

    “You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions.”

    ~ Naguib Mahfouz

  40. Cobbled Stones says:

    Hopesome

    ..what the hell are you talking about ??? Internet police? I am referring to Bene’s readers.

    You need more roughage in your diet.

  41. Hopesome says:

    Cobbled Stones;

    Ok so you don’t like prophets – and don’t believe that there is a prophet with us who has a good track record of any great value or any great witness to a move of …………

    On the surface of things I agree – However …… we do have among us – the Jezebels, evil, and a ‘dark side of life; and we have false witness – Jezebel has a force that is domineering (to say the least in some cases!) never the less she manoeuvres and manipulates and so on ……… so logically speaking false prophets ‘can do the same’ –

    My interest is do they have freedom of will or like chess pieces on the board of life are they being moved –

    If there is a chain of comand who is really giving the orders – Because to me there is far too much going on in secret, in hiddenenss, and behind closed doors for there to be a GOD that loves us all ……………

  42. Cobbled Stones says:

    Hopesome …

    Never have I mentioned disliking prophets. That is NOT my opinion. That is fact. An intelligent person understands entitlement to opinion, but not to fact. There are not now, nor has there EVEr been, in all of recorded history, a single prophet who has been verified beyond doubt – and PLEASEEEEEE do not refer me to your book of half-truth, errors and lies.

    You Christians love to cower in fear of dark and unseen powers (imaginary ghosts and goblins) as if your destiny is controlled by a power far greater than your imaginary god.

    If your god loves you as much as you say, they why would he not reveal these things to you as promised in his word? (Please don’t make me quote scripture)

  43. Hopesome says:

    Cobbled Stones

    You are way out of line and way off track ……….

    Go find someone else to trash ……….

  44. Cobbled Stones says:

    Hopesome,

    For the record .. I have myself lived in that place of fear of the unknown as an evangelical Christian, and I see nothing trashy about challenging Christians to look at their beliefs, even if at times the challenge seems harsh.

    If you make unsupported statements, expect to be challenged.

  45. Hopesome says:

    Cobbled Stones

    Smug Assumption was Lucifers downfall:-

    Arrogant Assumption Satan left for us to dwell in

    Both had Pride as their accompaniment

    And as we all know Pride came just before the FALL (from grace)

    Be careful who you do battle with my friend ……………… for the wrong apponent could well be the only person that could save you from ‘first and foremost yourself, and secondly from being abandoned by those who don’t give a toss whether you live or die for remember from your Christian days that betrayal came and stole hope and hope is what you need to ‘get home’ whether that be heaven or hell !!

    Don’t ever assume that your hope will get you through …………. the hope hell has for the want of claiming you is great indeed- believe me smug is something you should never be unless of course you made a deal with the devil; who at the end sacrificed all to save himself.

    Love thy enemy – you have no idea what that means

  46. Cobbled Stones says:

    Hopesome ..

    Spoken like a True Christian. First offer me a single shred of evidence to support the existence of Lucifer …

    No facts to back up anything … no actual historical evidence of any kind to support your Jesus …. No evidence of anything. We atheists have been waiting 2,000 years for you Christians to offer something up. So far – nothing. and as we grow in numbers (20% right now) you had better hope we treat you as well as you treat us.

    Nothing but threats from your loving God to torture those who chose not to believe in this nonsense. “Love me or else I will throw your unbelieving ass in a pit of fire and burn your soul for eternity”. Totally loving.

    God creating sin, then knowingly allowing sin to be thrust upon two ignorant people he created from mud. Then condemning the entire realm of civilization to death because of a single act. Then he sends himself, to kill himself, to save the realm from the sin he created in the first place.

    Love my enemy? YOU wish I am to be tortured forever – who exactly is my enemy? You’re a little hard to love there Hopesome when you say things like that.

  47. Cobbled Stones says:

    Hopesome:

    You claim to know me but we you aware that I am an ordained minister?

    You may read about my church here – I have a certificate of ordination.
    http://www.venganza.org/about/

    We believe:
    We believe pirates, the original Pastafarians, were peaceful explorers and it was due to Christian misinformation that they have an image of outcast criminals today.

    We are fond of beer
    Every Friday is a Religious Holiday
    We do not take ourselves too seriously
    We embrace contradictions (though in that we are hardly unique)

    and we have MORE evidence of the existence of our creator than you do.

  48. Hopesome says:

    Cobbled Stones:

    I do know that you (like so many others when challenged!) have gone to many a place, ie; intimidation, threat, bull…., bully, authority, ha! ha!, intellect, to name but a few, in order to, as you see it, – win!

    No different from what religion, business, and the like do in order ‘to stay on top’.

    Now you have found another place to speak from …………….

    You would do well in Mr Bentleys circles – you seem to know their tactics ‘off pat”

    I on the other hand ‘do battle’ to stay alive in a place that brings death under its wings constantly to thwart us all…

    They say words can kill or cure ………….. and yours came with and from a ‘barbed heart’ ………. I respected that …………. thats what makes us different.

    RESPECT is always a foundation for furtherance

  49. Cobbled Stones says:

    Hopesome ..

    I love you too – and Jesus loves me.

  50. Cobbled Stones says:

    Hopesome …

    This world is full of hate, malice and death. It evolved that way from the struggle between species to exist – you can observe the struggle in nature by simply watching the birds in your backyard for a few weeks. You can observe it mankind by watching TV for a few minutes. Very few of the wars, terrorist attacks and uprisings we see today are not resulted from religion. Religion poisons everything … even a casual reading of this blog demonstrates the results of religion.

    I find it extremely difficult to have any respect for religion – Christianity included, but that does not mean you are being personally attacked. Christians are extremely intolerant of criticism – primarily, I believe, because for centuries, it was punishable by death for doing so, and Christianity because accustomed to a free ride.

    The news for Christians is a little hard to take, but those days are gone forever. You are being called upon to justify your beliefs – to provide evidence to an ever increasingly unbelieving community of freethinkers who open doubt your bible, and who have hard evidence to show it’s fallacies and errors.

    I have repeatedly asked you to answer very simple questions. The result is always the same sidestepping and posing other questions to me as answers (A tactic reserved for politicians). Each time you evade my question, you add more fuel to my speculation that you have no answers – that you yourself are struggling with your own faith. I wouldn’t feel too badly about that because currently, unbelievers are the fastest growing minority in North America.

    We are winning Hopesome because we have facts. You are losing because you have only faith. and faith is merely pretending to know things you cannot know.

    You want my respect? You already have that on a personal basis. I respect everyone in this blog. You wish me to respect your beliefs? Start supporting them.

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