Really, Mr. Wagner?
By any orthodox definition of Christianity, the New Apostolic Reformation is a cult.
C Pete is quite unhappy that he and his apostles got so much attention from media after Texas governor Rick Perry’s little stadium prayer event a few weeks ago. He’s so unhappy he sent out an Urgent Message. He claims to be surprised at the recent attention. His attempt to set the record straight isn’t going to help NAR out, because it is what it is and most media got it correct. NAR has been tracked by theologians, studied, dissected and found desperately wanting.
Say what you want about Governor Rick Perry’s public display called The Response, the up side is that people who have never heard of NAR now have at least a rudimentary knowledge.
C Pete tries to explain that he doesn’t want a theocracy. He just wants to take control of the seven mountains so he and NAR adherents can “dislodge the long-standing kingdom of Satan”. Among other things they believe they have to do that so the kingdom of God can be established on earth.
It’s called dominionism and it is very much a theocratic concept. So is apostolic governance.
This reminds me of the time Faytene Kryskow told Canadian Christianity she wasn’t a dominionist. She didn’t know what a dominionist was, but she was adamant she wasn’t one.
With respect to the dominionist allegations, Kryskow said: “I don’t know what dominionism is and I am not a part of (that) group.
The New Apostolic Reformation can go on and on and on about what they aren’t until the cows come home. It is not going to change who and what they are.
The best I can discern, the NAR has become a tool in the hands of certain liberal opponents of the conservative candidates designed to discredit them on the basis of their friendship with certain Christian leaders supposedly affiliated with the NAR. To bolster this attempt, they seek to accuse the NAR of teaching false doctrine and paste on it the label of “cult.”
Moderates and conservatives have been warning about NAR for years, C Pete can’t blame the liberals or atheists for what NAR believes and practises.
The NAR is definitely not a cult. Those who affiliate with it believe the Apostles’ Creed and all the standard classic statements of Christian doctrine.
…The NAR represents the most radical change in the way of doing church since the Protestant Reformation. This is not a doctrinal change.
…Apostolic governance. As I mentioned before, this is probably the most radical change.
… I strongly object to journalists using the adjective “self-appointed” or “self-declared” when referring to apostles. No true apostle is self-appointed. First of all, they are gifted by God for that ministry. Secondly, the gift and its fruit are recognized by peers and the apostle is “set in” or “commissioned” to the office of apostle by other respected and qualified leaders.
Sigh. You have to read his idea of dominionism, it’s so twisted, you’d laugh if you were not aware of how fringe the beliefs are and how dangerous this movement is. His attempts to address extra biblical revelation, apostles and signs and wonders have to be read to be believed.
There are excellent, well researched and sane articles online about the New Apostolic Reformation, their theology, their politics, structure, growth, agenda etc. As well, there are a number of educational posts here at BDBO.
The Biggest Religious Movement You Never Heard Of
Deception in the Church
Definition of cult of Christianity
Right Wing Watch
Herescope Seven Mountains
Birthpangs (I began studying heresy reading Trish Tillen who I discovered after romping through Encyclopedia of New Age Beliefs, and I’ll be forever grateful for her work)
If you are new to studying NAR, YouTube is a great resource for watching some NAR apostles, and there are excellent videos by various individuals and groups on why NAR is not orthodox. I find researching NAR to be soul sucking and spiritually draining. Guard your mind and heart as you educate yourself.
About Bene Diction
Have courage for the great sorrows, And patience for the small ones. And when you have laboriously accomplished your tasks, go to sleep in peace. God is awake.
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12 Responses to C. Peter Wagner – NAR is not a cult!
August 20, 2011 at 8:02 am
Very well said!
C. Peter Wagner – a missions strategist, a ‘think-tankers’ genius who has contrived methodologies and strategies for the re-introduction of the ‘gifts’ and the ‘mission’ to the church. He co-authored MC510 Signs and Wonders with John Wimber and took this course globally to every continent. He and John were the implementers of the ‘restoration’ of the missing “holy spirit” to the church… The Post-denominational Church Movement and AD2000 United Prayer Track Spiritual Warfare movement are spearheaded by C. Peter Wagner. Involved with him in that work are several dozen church leaders including Francis Frangipane (co-pastor with Reuven Doron – working under direct authority of Latter Rain leader, James Watt), Ed Silvoso, Ted Haggard, Cindy Jacobs, James Morroco, John Dawson, Esther Ilnisky, Larry Stockstill, Larry Lea et al. (8)
Rick Hiebert says:
August 20, 2011 at 8:58 am
Well played, BD.
Can the NAR expect that no one will pay any attantion to what they say and do at all? The “seven mountains” covers pretty well everything in society, so it’s gotta be wothy of attention, and taking them over is something a “cult” might want…
August 20, 2011 at 11:03 am
Wagner’s ‘decree’ over Todd Bentley just before Todd dumped his wife for the babysitter.
August 20, 2011 at 11:29 am
Also notice the great Knight of Malta,Rick Joyner..looking on???
John Payzant says:
August 20, 2011 at 11:40 am
In the above photo, Mr Wagner has a look in his eyes that seems overly enthusiastic about something.
The look in his eyes does not seem good.
I think he has a crazy look in his eyes.
August 20, 2011 at 12:11 pm
Agreed….I would say that his look is demonic…
John Payzant says:
August 20, 2011 at 3:37 pm
Faytene Kryskow Grasseschi has those kind of eyes too.
She’s the top 10 kook.
Not only her but also Ed Rubuliak Moderator of Worship Invasion as well as some of the persons under him.
Also at the Todd Bentley Fresh Fire in 2004 at Abbotsford Pentecostal Assembly there were some that were a little bit strange and creepy.
August 21, 2011 at 7:12 am
Add to the list,Lance Walnau,Hiedi Baker,Pat Cocking,Cindy Jacobs,Charlie Robinson,…the entire Elijah List crowd!!!….and anyone that graduated from Todd Bentley,s, ministry school…
This movement,reminds me that,Even the very Elect will be deceived!
They are all clouds,that have NO rain
August 21, 2011 at 9:19 pm
C Petey was right about one thing, new relationships did surface…
August 22, 2011 at 4:18 am
Not only are they a cult, but they are a heretical militant cult. I have HOURS of videos of their own preachers.
August 23, 2011 at 9:29 am
http://vimeo.com/10009378 – this is a sermon C. Peter Wagner gave at Trinity Church in Cedar Hill, TX. At the beginning of the video his mic is not on but is corrected shortly. His teaching is on How to be Holy. He talks specifically about Apostles are to lead the church into war. And how Apostles are over Pastors.
August 24, 2011 at 7:07 pm
A Must Read!
A Christian Plot for Domination?
Aug 14, 2011 10:51 PM EDT
Michele Bachmann and Rick Perry aren’t just devout—both have deep ties to a fringe fundamentalist movement known as Dominionism, which says Christians should rule the world.